View Full Version : Eliminate BATF???

09-30-2011, 2:06 PM

maybe . . .. . just maybe. . . . . .

09-30-2011, 2:15 PM
Various folks have asked why NRA has not lobbied to end the ATF.

They were smart enough not to - that would be perceived as the mouse belling the cat and not survive politically.

Instead, stand back and watch institutional self-destruction:

the alcohol tax can be administered elsewhere (back to IRS, or perhaps Dept of Ag or FDA).
the criminal gun matters can go to FBI. FBI would like expanded LE scope as "nation's LE agency",
and has battled ATF in the past. (Some past crime scenes have almost had fistfights between FBI
and ATF over jurisdiction).
investigations are duplicated - FBI has labs too. The relevant explosives experts and certain firearms
markings experts can transfer over.
FBI already does the NICS checks on gun stuff.

Now this is all smoke & mirrors. The Administration is apparently willing to sacrifice up BATF to divert attention from AG Eric Holder and his senior minions at Justice, who really drove Fast & Furious.

But even with a loss of ATF, there may be teething pains and not immediately perceived benefits. FBI likely won't 'get', initially, some tech gun stuff and regulatory history, esp w/regards to NFA, that ATF has managed to deal with and at least has some familiarity with. But FBI also usually understands rule of law in contrast to ATF agents/administrators - and would be far less willing to lie on matters like NFA registry data quality. (There's a video of ATF manager coaching staff to lie that NFA reg is 100% accurate even though it has great errors and gaps in it. That is now Brady-disclosable in future NFA trials.)

And while there are indeed some good ATF agents (we hear of them in the news esp with F&F recently) - decades worth of reports indicate they're generally low on the Fed LE totem-pole, as many were washouts from FBI or Secret Service or US Marshal's and finally fell into their slot after barely making it thru Glynco.

09-30-2011, 2:52 PM
Just get rid of the F

if they stopped infringing our 2A rights they would be called BATE

I think that's why they don't want to stop :)

09-30-2011, 2:59 PM
if they stopped infringing our 2A rights they would be called BATE

So the head of the agency would be the "Master"??????

09-30-2011, 3:01 PM
The alcohol and tobacco tax functions are still performed by the Treasury Department http://www.ttb.gov/. The TTB also collects excise taxes for firearms and ammunition manufacturing.

It appears that the ATF was split into two agencies in 2003, with only part of the original agency (current ATF) going to the Justice Department.

The ATF still collects the NFA taxes and administers the FFL programs. As an LE agency, agree that they are low in the pecking order as far as federal LE goes. The FBI brass likely would have been wise enough to not get involved in FnF, while the unsophisticated ATF was led around by the nose by other entities inside the Justice Department.

09-30-2011, 3:05 PM
One benefit of getting rid of ATF, would be a lack of primary focus on gun issues by whichever agency takes over primary responsibility for federal gun law enforcement (FBI?). It will be one of many responsibilities, so won't be something that the agency needs continuously show "results" on, no matter if the results are legitimate busts or not.

FBI can still make themselves look good catching child pornographers, kidnappers, etc, and not need to force gun busts when they haven't had a good one recently.

09-30-2011, 6:14 PM
So the head of the agency would be the "Master"??????


09-30-2011, 6:20 PM
As more and more gun laws are overturned it seems that the role for the ATF to fill would be diminishing. It may be gradual, but it is occuring.



09-30-2011, 6:26 PM
But, but, but
"We, ATF, are defenders of the second amendment".
Special Agent McMahon
Operation Fast And Furious: The Other Side Of The Border


09-30-2011, 6:53 PM
35 minutes into it, it gets great!