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erik_26
03-16-2011, 3:40 PM
Is there anything currently being done to educate all Law Enforcement Agencies in California about firearm laws?

Since there is so much FUD with firearms laws (particularly with transporting firearms and ammunition (just one of many examples)), wouldn’t it be beneficial to get everyone on the same page? Wouldn’t this make interactions with LEO’s less stressful for both you and the LEO? Wouldn’t this reduce false arrests and/or citations?

Or is it better to continue as we are? Would such an initiative expose loop holes in the system causing even more unnecessary laws to regulate firearms?

Has anyone had an encounter with a LEO in which you were being accused of breaking the law, but in reality you were well within you legal rights? Did you have to cite Penal Codes and educate the LEO on the spot as to how you were in the right? What was the end result?

Glock22Fan
03-16-2011, 4:00 PM
Have you been asleep for a while?

Joe
03-16-2011, 4:02 PM
Have you been asleep for a while?

This is what I'm thinking also.

Read 90% of the threads in the 2nd amendment forum.

wentbig
03-16-2011, 6:14 PM
I just asked the Woodland PD in Yolo County for the CCW policy.
The Lt. in charge called me on my cell we talked for 40 mins. on pc 12050.
The Lt. asked how did I get my info? I told him the Calif. PC and Calguns.
6 weeks go by and the same Lt. calls today. After reading pc12050 and researching calguns wiki the city attorney declared G and all future CCW apps go to Sheriff.
The Police Lt. called to thank me for the path to his education..
One department at a time, we must spend equal time educating as we do ranting on this sh*t. Thanks guys for all who contribute to Calguns.

Ford8N
03-16-2011, 6:22 PM
What really needs to happen is the DOJ needs to help stop the spread of FUD. PD's call them for answers.

ken worth
03-16-2011, 6:27 PM
when the answer man is out to lunch,you get out to lunch answers.
its like asking the IRS for tax advice.

yellowfin
03-16-2011, 6:47 PM
Getting somewhere to declare G is counterproductive, but good job otherwise.

383green
03-16-2011, 7:56 PM
Executive Summary:

Yes.

Long Version:


There's lots being done!

Much progress has already been made. For example, one of the effects of the Off-List Lower campaign has been for the CA DOJ to support legislation which permanently took away their ability to add new weapons to the Assault Weapon list and made AW violations chargeable as a mere infraction (i.e., like a traffic ticket). Yes, really. And LE agencies have been using our own home-grown AW ID Flowchart (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf) as training and reference material.

Things have barely even begun to ramp up! Take a look at the CGF Carry Initiative (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=353861), for example, as well as Richards vs. Prieto (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=406974) for an example of what happens to LE agencies that are unruly in class.

killmime1234
03-16-2011, 9:30 PM
There is also a lot of internal fact sharing within law enforcement agencies via memos--although this is mostly as a liability limiting measure. There are many memos at a lot of departments regarding things like open carry, OLLs, etc. Just search for "sheriff's dept letter" or something similar and you will find some *mostly* informative information that is being circulated throughout our law enforcement community.

There is still a lot that needs to be done, and unfortunately there are still very many situations where LEO's don't know the letter of the law from FUD and people get wrongfully hassled and even arrested.

N6ATF
03-16-2011, 11:40 PM
What really needs to happen is the DOJ needs to help stop the spread of FUD. PD's call them for answers.

They should just pay Alan Gura to record a phone announcement message that says "The law you are calling about is unconstitutional. Do not enforce it unless you want to cost your department and city millions of dollars. Thank you and have a nice day." Then have all the staff reassigned to something other than victim disarmament.

383green
03-17-2011, 6:39 AM
They should just pay Alan Gura to record a phone announcement message that says "The law you are calling about is unconstitutional. Do not enforce it unless you want to cost your department and city millions of dollars. Thank you and have a nice day." Then have all the staff reassigned to something other than victim disarmament.

LOL! I love it!

:gura:

Window_Seat
03-17-2011, 8:05 AM
If anything hasn't been done, it will be in :twoweeks:

Erik.

HBrebel
03-17-2011, 3:35 PM
I grabbed a bunch of Oathkeepers pamphlets from turners the other day and plan on handing them out if I get pulled over or run into a cop at lunchtime or whatever.

wentbig
03-17-2011, 7:56 PM
Getting somewhere to declare G is counterproductive, but good job otherwise.

I did not get the PD to declare G.
I helped a uninformed department educate itself. The PD found the law layed out in pc12000. The PD made a informed decision to change policy.

N6ATF
03-17-2011, 11:49 PM
Getting somewhere to declare G is counterproductive, but good job otherwise.

If all the PDs declared G, wouldn't that completely foreclose the sheriffs' "oh, you have to apply with your PD first" BS that is being dredged up by the CGF Carry License Compliance and Sunshine Initiative?

yellowfin
03-18-2011, 7:11 AM
Perhaps, but what I'm thinking is that it forecloses the possibility of friendlier future or current chiefs from issuing in lieu of an unfriendly sheriff. We should be encouraging them to want to issue rather than to not want to at every possible opportunity. The entire problem has been the monopoly of sheriffs in the non-issuing counties.

greasemonkey
03-22-2011, 10:06 AM
There was a CalGuns Foundation booth at the Police Chief's Symposium a few weeks ago :D

Yes, there's quite a bit going on with educating LEO's on what the law is; some have sat down with CGF willingly for legal advise, some have been sat down in court and formally educated, look up the "Sac PD memo", a training bulletin issued to all Sac PD officers by the department. Many, many departments in California are using the AW Flow Charts & SacPD Memos as informational training for their officers.

Both last year and this year, I had several local departments request stacks of the flyers we had available at the CGF's booth in Tulare's World Ag Expo (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=407546) so they could take them back to their departments and use them as training bulletins.

POST training hasn't been thrown in the circular file cabinet.

Working on "assisting" the DOJ with education has been a particular emphasis of the CalGuns Foundation, starting with the OLL movement :)

Is there anything currently being done to educate all Law Enforcement Agencies in California about firearm laws?

Since there is so much FUD with firearms laws (particularly with transporting firearms and ammunition (just one of many examples)), wouldn’t it be beneficial to get everyone on the same page? Wouldn’t this make interactions with LEO’s less stressful for both you and the LEO? Wouldn’t this reduce false arrests and/or citations?

Or is it better to continue as we are? Would such an initiative expose loop holes in the system causing even more unnecessary laws to regulate firearms?

Has anyone had an encounter with a LEO in which you were being accused of breaking the law, but in reality you were well within you legal rights? Did you have to cite Penal Codes and educate the LEO on the spot as to how you were in the right? What was the end result?

pointedstick
03-22-2011, 5:06 PM
Much progress has already been made. For example, one of the effects of the Off-List Lower campaign has been for the CA DOJ to support legislation which permanently took away their ability to add new weapons to the Assault Weapon list and made AW violations chargeable as a mere infraction (i.e., like a traffic ticket). Yes, really. And LE agencies have been using our own home-grown AW ID Flowchart (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf) as training and reference material.


Whoa whoa whoa, wait, what? Details! Details!