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nicki
03-06-2011, 6:30 PM
We are supposed to live in a system of "ordered liberty".

In my view, Libya is an example of what happens when people live under a government of "ordered Tyranny".

Our government governs under the "consent of the governed".

It appears that the Libyans are trying to revoke their consent and Ghadifi is responding accordingly as any "Police State Tyrant" would.

So, here is the question to the board, does the situation in Libya shed some light on the importance of us maintaining our RKBA.

In the event "Obama" turned into a "Tyrant", how would the American people stand up to our military/police if they were disarmed?

Of course the Libyan people are making a brave fight and if they win, perhaps they may actually make a "free state".

Nicki

nukechaser
03-06-2011, 6:40 PM
Oh, I'm sure some head of another country would step up and ask an intermediary government to supply the "rebels" with guns to stand up to our oppressive government.

Just like our own president is doing: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/americas-secret-plan-to-arm-libyas-rebels-2234227.html

Maybe the Libyan rebels could just ask the ATF to let a few "slip by" like they've been accused of doing with Mexico.

//sarcasm off

dustoff31
03-06-2011, 7:11 PM
So, here is the question to the board, does the situation in Libya shed some light on the importance of us maintaining our RKBA.

If you mean will it convert anyone who doesn't already understand, no, I don't think so. They are the "that could never happen here" crowd.

In the event "Obama" turned into a "Tyrant", how would the American people stand up to our military/police if they were disarmed?

Nicki

Pretty much the same way they are in Libya now and we did in 1776. That is, the 30% or so of Americans that actually took exception to a tyrant and were willing to do something about it.

Paladin
03-07-2011, 6:27 AM
I think the Libyan situation gives CGF/CGN/NRA the perfect "teachable moment", w/plenty of video, to make a viral video showing that w/o the RKBA, our freedom of speech, press (incl internet access), assembly, and all other freedoms are not right, but revocable privileges granted by the gov't.

An aside: I remember hearing Obama calling for Libya to restore internet access for its citizens, but I did not hear him call for China to do that for their citizens. Has he? Or does the fact that China has nukes keep him silent? Or the fact that China is propping up our economy by buying our debt keep him silent?

voiceofreason
03-07-2011, 6:33 AM
Oh, I'm sure some head of another country would step up and ask an intermediary government to supply the "rebels" with guns to stand up to our oppressive government.

Just like the French did for that upstart British colony over 200 years ago. I believe they supplied gunpowder.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

vantec08
03-07-2011, 7:27 AM
In the event "Obama" turned into a "Tyrant", how would the American people stand up to our military/police if they were disarmed?


Powerful question nicki, not sure it has a precise answer. I do know that any liberties, once gone or subjugated, are only reclaimed with blood. I am no graduate historian or forensic sociologist-psychologist, but I know enough history to realize that. The question comes down to how many would stand up to the tyranny. If disarmed, seems it would require the sacrifice of thousands of the living to get thru to the voters that actively support such tyranny. What it comes down to is, what we have for government is what voters have chosen (certainly CA voters) so it must be the way they want it. Considering we are going on the third generation of brainwashed "Uncle Sugar knows best", it does not bode well. We are off the Constitutional map. I wish to heck I could be positive about it.

Burbur
03-07-2011, 11:13 AM
[I]Seriously, the people in control (not Obama) are already planning for the day that there are troops on US streets. They know that there is risk that US troops will stand down when asked to shoot at US citizens. Therefore, they already have agreements with Mexico, Canada, and other countries for us to each swap troops when the event happens via the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP).

That way, the troops have no problem doing what they are told.

That actually makes me feel much more comfortable. I would hate to have to go face to face with some 19 year old kid from Missouri; I would much rather it be a foreign mercenary. There would be no (feelings of) guilt in any action taken, in that scenario.

Caladain
03-07-2011, 11:27 AM
I can't imagine.

Strike that.

I hope that the Marine Corp and Army wouldn't stand by while foreign mercs went toe-to-toe with US citizens.

I also hope that if Marine troops were the ones standing on the streets that they would stand down before bringing the hammer down.

I hope, because an Abrams is a beast.

Phantompooper03
03-07-2011, 12:59 PM
I'm pretty sure I know what my brother Marines would do. None of them would stand by and watch a foreign military shoot Americans, no way, I'd never ever believe that was possible. Mainly because the majority of the Corps is 18-25 year old non-rates and NCOs.

I think if a government had to resort to pulling in troops from foreign armies to quell a rebellion, then it's time for that government to move on and I would be doing my part to facillitate that move.

sniper5
03-07-2011, 1:39 PM
Start reading the presidential Executive Orders. They are available for reading online if you google. We are one national disaster from a dictatorship. The ducks are lined up. Everything is in place. Declaration of martial law with suspension of the constitution, seizure of personal assets, forced work parties, etc, etc, etc. Read up.

formula502
03-07-2011, 4:03 PM
Don't we get to overthrow the government every two years?

Caladain
03-07-2011, 4:05 PM
Don't we get to overthrow the government every two years?

What gave you that idea?

BillCA
03-07-2011, 4:36 PM
Some of the statistics give me hope...

All told, between local police/sheriffs, federal LE, State police and full time military, the government could theoretically field almost 4.5 million bodies. The reality is much lower as about 30% of these are support and managerial positions (intelligence, supply, cooks, medics, etc.)

If just 10% of the American population was actively opposed to the gov't, that would mean approximately 28-30 million souls, most of them armed and angry. That's a 7:1 advantage. The feds might neutralize some of that advantage by using technology, but they won't be holding on to any cities or lands in large numbers.

Not that I'd want to see a new civil war in our country, but the government would have to be insane to attempt to go against those numbers. That gives me great comfort and helps me sleep at night.

Mubarak did the right thing by stepping down and not dragging Egypt into civil war. We'll see if the military can fulfill its promises of elections. Gaddafi went the opposite way and will pay the price. He may be able to hold Tripoli for a while. If the people can contain him in Tripoli with his back to the sea, they can neutralize his governance of the nation and wait out his special guards.

Dreaded Claymore
03-07-2011, 7:58 PM
Just like the French did for that upstart British colony over 200 years ago. I believe they supplied gunpowder.

And until they did, we had to rely on Washington's bluffing abilities and his (apparent) status as a favored of Providence. I forget the names and dates, but there was some fort that Washington went to, and he covered it in such an outrageous number of guns that his opposite number surrendered. But unbeknownst to that British general, Washington didn't have any gunpowder for all those cannons, hahahaha :rofl:

Start reading the presidential Executive Orders. They are available for reading online if you google. We are one national disaster from a dictatorship. The ducks are lined up. Everything is in place. Declaration of martial law with suspension of the constitution, seizure of personal assets, forced work parties, etc, etc, etc. Read up.

I know about this, and I try not to think about it because if I do, I can't sleep at night. And before anyone gets started, these executive orders (http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-51.htm) started under Bush. (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55824)

Left Coast Conservative
03-08-2011, 3:17 AM
In the event "Obama" turned into a "Tyrant"

Is this a trick question? I think he already HAS.

Seriously, the people in control (not Obama) are already planning for the day that there are troops on US streets. They know that there is risk that US troops will stand down when asked to shoot at US citizens. Therefore, they already have agreements with Mexico, Canada, and other countries for us to each swap troops when the event happens via the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP).

That way, the troops have no problem doing what they are told.

... because I am calling BS on the SPP.

ubet
03-08-2011, 7:56 AM
Their are over 300million guns inside the USA. The problem with a civil war/revolution inside of America, is the fact that if it happened, we would only have what we had on hand. We wouldnt have a factory producing primers/powder. Unless it was one of the first places seized, and put to work in our favor, but a quick air campaign, cruise/tomahawk missile would cure that real quick.