how reliable are 1911's.

[ChrisO]

I have shot several 1911's and own a RIA tactical. It has been reliable but I only have a few hundred rounds of ball through it, With out ANY issues so far. Anyways I find my self basically having an affair behind my glocks back with 1911's lately. I have a hard time keeping a 1911 in my nightstand because I find my self thinking (there is no way it is reliable as my glock 17, My glock holds 17 rounds and blah blah blah) but as much as I love my glock I hate switching between platforms and the plain and simple truth is I shoot my 1911 better naturally. I mean I'm good with my glock but shoot I can drive nails with a 1911.

So realistically without starting a war here, I understand the 1911 has been through several wars and is still going but how reliable is the platform really? What type of failures is it prone to? Is it prone to more failures FTF,FTE and such? Just a discussion topic not a war here so lets be civil.

[9mmepiphany]

Most problem, after ammo, with the 1911 have to do with three things
1. Magazines
2. Extractor
3. Timing of the action

The first is just a matter of buying quality magazines and throwing them away when they start causing problems. The next two are a matter of the gun being correctly fitted.

this is a good article about what to expect from a 1911 you'd consider for defense use
http://www.10-8performance.com/1911_Duty_Use.html

this is a good article about how to maintain your 1911
http://www.10-8consulting.com/article_page.php?articleID=13

Most people will never put enough rounds through their 1911s to be able to tell the difference, but if you are considering betting your life on it working, it does require a commitment on your part

[Cali-Shooter]

Glocks = Limp wristing failure prone, a.k.a. FTE, stovepipe's, etc.

1911 = Some brands have difficulty feeding JHP ammo, plus magazine problems if you don't have reliable brand mags (stay away from Kimber mags and magazines made by unknown mfgers), Chip McCormick mags are great, as are Wilson Combat brand.

[locosway]

I have a 1911 that's almost 100 years old and it shoots just fine. I would trust my life with it, but it's not my first choice.

The 1911 is THE most popular handgun design in the WORLD. Given the numbers, you will see a lot of failures from companies who lower their QC or don't make the gun properly. If you want one that's as reliable as it gets, get a GI model. If you want something that's super accurate, get a match model. However, don't expect to get the best of both worlds without spending some money.

This is were Glock came in and cleaned up. They're super reliable and very accurate and they don't cost $2k or more for both features.

Bottom line, 1911's area nice guns, and some day I'd like to have a few more. But for me it's more of a range gun, but, that's just me.. ;)

[ChrisO]

Very good read. Thanks for sharing that!

[ChrisO]

That is where I'm at right now, My 1911 is more of a range gun but it's because I have put WAY to many rounds down my glock 17 without failure to just give up on it for another platform. My RIA tac has had a few hundred flawless rounds through it but my glock 17 just got a decent cleaning the other day and before that it was 3k without ANY type of cleaning and it was running as it always does.

[locosway]

That is where I'm at right now, My 1911 is more of a range gun but it's because I have put WAY to many rounds down my glock 17 without failure to just give up on it for another platform. My RIA tac has had a few hundred flawless rounds through it but my glock 17 just got a decent cleaning the other day and before that it was 3k without ANY type of cleaning and it was running as it always does.

Yep, but I have a 1911 here that has countless rounds through it, and it still is accurate. Who knows how long it has gone without a proper cleaning as it has seen war.

You can find a 1911 and make it work. Usually the issues I've seen stem from JHP ammo in GI models, and this usually isn't the case on modern 1911's because of how common JHP ammo has become.

I would like a 1911 because they look very sexy, especially compared to my Glocks. But, the parts for the Glock are cheaper, the gun itself is cheaper, and I'm not worried about marking up my Glock. As a tool, a Glock is hard to beat, but as a work of art, there's no replacement for a 1911.

[vikingm03]

Everyone has an opinion. You will hear people praise the 1911 or say its the worst gun ever, and same with the glock.

As for MY opinion, my first and currently only handgun is a springfield gi 1911 and ive been shooting it a lot. I would say the 1911 design is extremely reliable based on what i have first hand experience with.

In fact, I've just been reading a book called " Textbook of pistols and revolvers" by Julian Hatcher, and he starts of his summary of the m1911 as follows: "This gun, known in the Army as the Model of 1911, is without a doubt the finest heavy caliber automatic pistol in the world. It is simple, rugged, and reliable and is less subject to breakages than the average military revlover..." Polymer pistol fans relax, this book was written in 1935 =) I just wanted to show what some of the original users of the pistol thought of it.

However, 1911s can be made wrong, as can any gun, so test your gun very well before relying on it.

[ChrisO]

^^^ No doubt. I carried a old colt GI that my grandfather handed down to me and I still do carry it in cold weather and it is just as reliable as my glock (were also talking about a rattling loose old GI, Still every bit as accurate as my glock) but I usually only carry that on the ranch when I would rather have a little more oomph than 9mm in case I see a pig or something while doing some work. For the most part I use ball ammo in my defensive guns anyways but thats just a preference and it depends on the round.

[Jasonaspears]

From my experience, it is a very reliable gun. I've spent over 1000 rounds through my Kimber without a single FTE or FTF and it seems to eat up just about anything I run through it. Magazines are definitely an important part in keeping it running happily...

[Lrchops]

Anyone familiar with the Colt Defender series 90 .45? I have an opportunity to buy a used one in excellent condition with 3 mags and 4 boxes of ammo for $600. Is that a good price?

[ghostrider4evr]

High quality magazines in your 1911 are a must. When I first got into 1911 I bought a Kimber Tactical Custom, and had many FTF problems. I swapped out the Kimber mag for a Wilson Combat and had no problems from that point on. A few of my favorites would be from Tripp Research, and Chip McCormick.

I have small hands and prefer the grip angle/size of the 1911 over my Glocks. That being said, I have no problem trusting my life with my 1911.

[Voo]

Straight from the box, I wouldn't be so ready to trust a 1911 as a Glock or Sig.. This shouldnt' be confused with them being "unreliable". A 1911 can be modified to be an excellent and reliable home defense/fighting gun. But at the same time, there's a reason why all the major 1911 gunsmiths list "reliability/tune up" packages as part of their services.

Owning both and shooting 10000's of rounds through each, and seeing fellow shooters put both types of gun's through high volume, competition type settings, I do not have as much faith in 1911 variations as a stock Glock (or Sig, etc etc).

[Shenaniguns]

I have shot several 1911's and own a RIA tactical. It has been reliable but I only have a few hundred rounds of ball through it, With out ANY issues so far. Anyways I find my self basically having an affair behind my glocks back with 1911's lately. I have a hard time keeping a 1911 in my nightstand because I find my self thinking (there is no way it is reliable as my glock 17, My glock holds 17 rounds and blah blah blah) but as much as I love my glock I hate switching between platforms and the plain and simple truth is I shoot my 1911 better naturally. I mean I'm good with my glock but shoot I can drive nails with a 1911.

So realistically without starting a war here, I understand the 1911 has been through several wars and is still going but how reliable is the platform really? What type of failures is it prone to? Is it prone to more failures FTF,FTE and such? Just a discussion topic not a war here so lets be civil.



Not all 1911's are created equal so you can't ask a blanket statement and get an accurate answer.

[railroader]

^^^ No doubt. I carried a old colt GI that my grandfather handed down to me and I still do carry it in cold weather and it is just as reliable as my glock (were also talking about a rattling loose old GI, Still every bit as accurate as my glock) but I usually only carry that on the ranch when I would rather have a little more oomph than 9mm in case I see a pig or something while doing some work. For the most part I use ball ammo in my defensive guns anyways but thats just a preference and it depends on the round.
The rock island tactical I had was very reliable. Mine ran and ran with ball ammo and 200swc reloads. It would have been fine for home defense especially with ball ammo. Mark

[kahai808]

Seem to me that you cant go wrong with either. If you keep thinking that your glock is more relieable, use your glock. if you think your 1911 can do as good as a job, use it.
Sounds to me you rely on your glock, so thats what i would use!

[esartori]

I think the magazine discussion is right. With good mags, and if you don't limp wrist it, 1911s can be very reliable. My milspec is great, she just likes to run a little wet so just gotta make sure to grease the rails and toss a little oil in there. I'd trust my life to my 1911

[zdragon]

one of my nail drivers.:)
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1079/p1060106u.jpg
By zdagon52 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/zdagon52) at 2011-02-16

[huckberry668]

The problem with choosing a 1911 is that there is so many choices, brands and models. So asking how reliable a "1911" is won't get you very far and all responses would likely be subjective. I'm surprise I don't see more raving feedbacks considering the huge 1911 following.

1911 models out there range from multi-thousand $ to a few hundred $. Which one is more reliable? I'd get more objective answers if I ask if a Sig P220 is reliable.

I've been a fan of 1911 for over 20 years now. I love the handsome look, handling and potential for tinkering side of the gun but as a generic model, it's finiky when it comes to ammo, expensive to get it to shoot accurately and reliably IMO and experience.

Do I love my 1911s (Colt Gold Cup, Norinco, Springfield Trophy and Entreprise wide body)? Absolutely. But when it comes life and death, give me my Sig P series, Glocks, USPs or Beretta 90s because I know for a fact they are proven 'reliable' to me for the ammo I use.

[ChrisO]

It was kind of a blanket statement. I guess I mean a properly made 1911 thats not overly tight. I was just looking for some discussion and seeing how many people trust the 1911. The 1911 is a BEAUTIFUL weapon and has proven it's self reliable enough in service, while a glock may be generally more reliable. The 1911 is a weapon that has a huge following and I find that if made right can be utter reliable but it is also one of the guns out there that has the most excuses for reliability. For instance guns coming from factory not shooting right, maybe magazine or extractor or something, In my opinion these should run as close to 100% as possible without extra tweaking.

[huckberry668]

You're right, all guns has to be made right to be reliable. We'll also need to understand that all mechanical devices fail from time to time. Training (marksmanship, tactics, clearing malfunctions) is what will increase your survivability when you have to use the pistol.

[Shenaniguns]

It was kind of a blanket statement. I guess I mean a properly made 1911 thats not overly tight. I was just looking for some discussion and seeing how many people trust the 1911. The 1911 is a BEAUTIFUL weapon and has proven it's self reliable enough in service, while a glock may be generally more reliable. The 1911 is a weapon that has a huge following and I find that if made right can be utter reliable but it is also one of the guns out there that has the most excuses for reliability. For instance guns coming from factory not shooting right, maybe magazine or extractor or something, In my opinion these should run as close to 100% as possible without extra tweaking.



You need to do a lot more research, being "tight" isn't what makes them potentially unreliable... Not being "fitted" (Most production guns are just assembled with very little fitting) or timed correctly is.

[rtadlock]

Magazines and Ammo seem to be the biggest factor in reliability to me.

Use Wilson Combat mags and find a HD ammo that you can put at least 200 rounds through without a problem as well as keeping it properly maintained and you should be good.

I have a Glock and a 1911 and neither one has had any problem. i have a lot more rounds through the 1911 and I cant remember the last time it failed, once or twice after I replaced the recoil spring. Mine go to gun is a Wilson Combat CQB and is as reliable as anything. The Kimber Goldmatch doesnt like some ammo,.

[natomasboy]

It was kind of a blanket statement. I guess I mean a properly made 1911 thats not overly tight. I was just looking for some discussion and seeing how many people trust the 1911. The 1911 is a BEAUTIFUL weapon and has proven it's self reliable enough in service, while a glock may be generally more reliable. The 1911 is a weapon that has a huge following and I find that if made right can be utter reliable but it is also one of the guns out there that has the most excuses for reliability. For instance guns coming from factory not shooting right, maybe magazine or extractor or something, In my opinion these should run as close to 100% as possible without extra tweaking.

Chris I think the nature of your question is very subjective and thus your responses will be subjective. "A properly made 1911" means exactly what? As someone has already mentioned it's not a fair comparison.

The 1911 is a platform that is offered by dozens of manufacturers. Comparing it to the Sig manufacturer or Glock manufacturer is unfair. You'll have to specify which 1911 and exact model in terms of reliability.

I've thought about asking this very question on this forum many times but I realize that my question is unfair for the said reasons.

[IntoForever]

I have a 1911 RIA and had failure to feed issues all the time with the first barrel. I bought it new and never had any type of maintenance done other than polishing the feed ramp. 2000 rounds down the barrel and it still jammed on average 10% of the time. After a squib caused barrel damage, Ojisan helped me put the new barrel in and tune the pistol and I have not had a problem since with ball ammo (close to 1000 rounds). Flat point ammo failure to feed was about 90% of the time. I think reliability can vary from manufacturer and even individual gun. My P-12 has never let me down yet I see postings online of how others have had nothing but troubles.

[1lostinspace]

There is a reason the 1911 is not at your night stand and it's not (blah blah blah)
Ask your self do you really trust one? Why not keep what works? Why not 17 rounds instead of 8?

[ChrisO]

The reason it's not on my nightstand is because I trust my glock and have trusted my life to my glock every darn day for the last 4 years. I like .45 ACP more than 9mm (just a personal opinion) but I DO NOT feel underarmed with 17 rounds of 9mm and a glock 17. With this being the case it is hard for me to trust much of any gun besides my trusty glock 17.

[toby]

There is a reason the 1911 is not at your night stand and it's not (blah blah blah)
Ask your self do you really trust one? Why not keep what works? Why not 17 rounds instead of 8?

Ask yourself.... do you really need 17 rounds?? I'll take the 1911...;)

[ElectronWrangler]

When I first got my SW 1911 it would FTF the last round in the stock mags 75% of the time. Switched to Wilson Combat Mags and now 1000 flawless rounds later, half JHP half FMJ. I love that gun and can drive tacks with it, but my 92FS is in the Gun Vault next to the bed.

[ChrisO]

I do not feel undergunnes with 7-10 rounds of .45 ACP at all but like I said I don't feel undergunned with 17 rounds of 9mm either. I don't know if I really need 17 rounds but it sure makes me feel good having it in the gun in case I do ;) .

[zdragon]

When I first got my SW 1911 it would FTF the last round in the stock mags 75% of the time. Switched to Wilson Combat Mags and now 1000 flawless rounds later, half JHP half FMJ.

i got rid of those shiny S&W Italian made stock mags on day one(never fired once).
Never never had one single hiccup with either Wilsons or Metalforms.

[bandsaw]

Ask yourself.... do you really need 17 rounds?? I'll take the 1911...;)

Better to have and not need, then need and not have.

That being said, I do have my MC Operator on my nightstand every night...but that might be changing soon.

[Southbay]

Ask yourself.... do you really need 17 rounds?? I'll take the 1911...;)

You can never have too many rounds, you never know what the circumstances will be.

[GunLover]

I have owned a few 1911s 4 kimbers 2 para, 4 colts and a S&W. There was only 3 that has never jammed. Para LTC, S&W and the Kimber Eclipse Target II. I have owned 9 different Glocks and 4 Sig 226s and 3 229s and 2 P220s. I never had one jam outta thousands of rounds out of some of these guns.

[diginit]

Lets see... The military used them since 1911 through Vietnam. L.A. Swat uses the Kimber TLE II. (Tactical Law Enforcement) I have one in stainless. The only problems I have had is a bad mag. Stovepipe on the last round, and that the extractor broke after 5000 rnds. But that was because of +P loads before I replaced the stock 16lb mainspring with an 18.5lb. An older model with an external extractor. Kimber sent me a new one within a week for free. They changed to internal extractors awhile back. It's about time for a new barrel. 20,000 rnds later...

[Striker]

Most problem, after ammo, with the 1911 have to do with three things
1. Magazines
2. Extractor
3. Timing of the action

The first is just a matter of buying quality magazines and throwing them away when they start causing problems. The next two are a matter of the gun being correctly fitted.

this is a good article about what to expect from a 1911 you'd consider for defense use
http://www.10-8performance.com/1911_Duty_Use.html

this is a good article about how to maintain your 1911
http://www.10-8consulting.com/article_page.php?articleID=13

Most people will never put enough rounds through their 1911s to be able to tell the difference, but if you are considering betting your life on it working, it does require a commitment on your part

This. Hilton Yam is 1911 expert. I would urge you to read this and other stuff out on the net from Hilton and guys like Larry Vickers. Good combat pistol? Yes. Reliable? Yes. Accurate? Yes. Expensive to set up and maintain a 1911 you can bet your life on? absolutely. As this gentleman said, great pistol as long as you're willing to make the commitment to it.

[natomasboy]

If 1911's are capable of being setup to be 100 percent reliable why aren't most of them sold out of the box 100 percent reliable?

Why do you have to have work done on a gun you expect to be reliable?

[Cyc Wid It]

If 1911's are capable of being setup to be 100 percent reliable why aren't most of them sold out of the box 100 percent reliable?

Why do you have to have work done on a gun you expect to be reliable?

Many are 100% reliable out of the box, just not the entry level ones...

[locosway]

Many are 100% reliable out of the box, just not the entry level ones...

Some entry model ones are reliable, more so than the high end match ones. It's all about setup, and not the price point.

[locosway]

Ask yourself.... do you really need 17 rounds?? I'll take the 1911...;)

Depends on what you're doing. It seems that most officer involved shootings there are a good number of rounds fired by the officers. 6 rounds is almost empty on a 1911, but on a Glock you're just getting warmed up.

Again, personal preference here.

[natomasboy]

That's the dilemma of this question. Based on your comment entry level 1911's are not reliable. You have to have "work" done on them to make them reliable. Only the expensive 1911's (non-entry level) are reliable.

Is that right?

Basically unless you're a 1911 wizard keep a glock as your "reliable" sidearm.

[locosway]

That's the dilemma of this question. Based on your comment entry level 1911's are not reliable. You have to have "work" done on them to make them reliable. Only the expensive 1911's (non-entry level) are reliable.

Is that right?

Basically unless you're a 1911 wizard keep a glock as your "reliable" sidearm.

I have a base model 1911 that rattles and it's very old, it's 100% reliable with BALL AMMO. I've never put a JHP into it, and I don't plan to. In fact, I really don't shoot it much, maybe once every few years. But, I would use it if I needed to and I wouldn't worry about reliability issues.

[gbarbo001]

I consider all of my 1911s to be VERY reliable, but they are all high end (Valtro, Wilson, Kimber, Ed Brown and yes, a Colt or two) but all of them have been through the hands of the likes of Bruce Gray and John Jardine. But of all of my 1911s, I prefer my Wilson Tactical Elite. It always goes *BANG* when I pull the trigger. Always.

[9mmepiphany]

If 1911's are capable of being setup to be 100 percent reliable why aren't most of them sold out of the box 100 percent reliable?
1911s price at the lower end usually lack the handwork need to insure that they will run reliably for 10k rounds. If every 1911 sold was 100% reliable, there wouldn't be any entry level priced 1911s

Why do you need to have work done on a gun you expect to be reliable?
Read the linked articles

Based on your comment entry level 1911's are not reliable. You have to have "work" done on them to make them reliable. Only the expensive 1911's (non-entry level) are reliable.
That might be a bit broad...but not incorrect

There is the question of how reliable do you need a gun to be. Will it be a range toy that might see 1k rounds a year or a carry gun that will see 10k...most folks I know who own 1911s will never see 10k rounds and surely not the 25k that serious users will put through their 1911s

I don't think they need to be outrageously expensive, there are several that are quite acceptable in the mid-priced range of 1911s

I usually recommend a Dan Wesson CBOB as good quality 1911 at a fair price. With just a couple of mods/tweaks it would be a very serviceable duty/carry gun

[X-caliber]

(stay away from Kimber mags and magazines made by unknown mfgers)

KimPro Tac Magazines too? I thought these were pretty legit mags.

I have a couple and haven't had any issues whatsoever....come to think of it my basic Kimber magazine that came with my pistol hasn't caused me any problems either.

[Legasat]

How reliable are 1911's?

How reliable are cars? Some are VERY reliable, some less so. The expensive ones are more reliable? Maybe, maybe not. Does that mean if you buy an expensive one, it will be absolutely reliable? You hope so, but not necessarily. Mostly, modern cars are pretty darn reliable. Mostly, modern 1911's are pretty darn reliable. Not every one, but then again, not every single Glock, Sig or S&W is absolutely reliable either.

After you buy any gun, it has to prove to you that it either is, or is not, absolutely reliable. My Dan Wesson PM-7 has never had a problem in over 2000 rounds with all kinds of ammo. That proves it to me.

[STAGE 2]

This question comes up fairly regularly and the answer is always the same, namely, the 1911 is as reliable as a semi auto handgun can mechanically be if it is built to proper specs.

In the trials for adopting the 1911 for military use, JMB used a single 1911 and ran 6000 rounds through it without failure. This was in the days before wunderlube and if memory serves, without cleaning as well. At regular intervals, the pistol was dunked in a bucket of water to cool it down, dried with a rag and then continued to fire. Ultimately, the test was not stopped because of the pistol, but simply because the panel had seen enough.

The problem with the reputation of the 1911 today is that everybody builds one, and most builders, even the good ones, are building them to spec. So the 1911 "brand" has to shoulder the rep of the shoddy builds in addition to the good ones.

If you have a 1911 and build it to khunhausen specs you will have a gun that will rival any glock for reliability, and will be more accurate to boot.

[Lead Waster]

If I ever get a 1911, it'll be a range gun only. If I want a "reliable defense pistol" I have a Glock 21. Same caliber, 3 more rounds in the mag.

If I get a 1911, it will be for that awesome trigger and accuracy at the range, and just to say that I have one. Oh, and I'd totally pimp it up with bling too.

I mean, there is your nice familiar, reliable wife at home, then you have that mistress that you buy furs and jewelry for, right? When you want to show off and have a good time, you take the mistress, when you need someone to pick up the kids, it's the wife!

I'm totally joking about wife/mistress! It just seemed like a fun analogy!

[rogervzv]

I have shot several 1911's and own a RIA tactical. It has been reliable but I only have a few hundred rounds of ball through it, With out ANY issues so far. Anyways I find my self basically having an affair behind my glocks back with 1911's lately. I have a hard time keeping a 1911 in my nightstand because I find my self thinking (there is no way it is reliable as my glock 17,

I have fired thousands and thousands of rounds through my GI 1911 (when I was in the Army) and my Colt Series 70 Gold Cup in civilian life. In my experience as long as you shoot ball ammo, they never malfunction, jam, or do anything but put lead downrange. My Gold Cup sucks with wadcutters and some of the flatter hollowpoint rounds. I never shoot anything but ball with it, and it never jams. Never. I would trust my life with it and I have.

[M.A.B]

LOL that's a great analogy Lead Waster!!! LOL

[diginit]

The Glock 9mm or 45 GAP hasn't the stopping power of a 1911 in 45 ACP. Do a search. There is a reason military used the 1911 for so many years. Dependable. One shot, One kill. What good is capacity if you have to hit your enemy 3 times? A 10 rnd 9mm can defend against 3.33 crackheads, an 8 rnd 45 ACP can defend against 8 criminals. Providing you can shoot. You do the math. Enough said..

[locosway]

The Glock 9mm or 45 GAP hasn't the stopping power of a 1911. Do a search. There is a reason military used the 1911 for so many years. One shot, One kill. Enough said..

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You crack me up... seriously...

Now tell everyone what the difference is between military ball ammo and premium bonded JHP bullets.

And if you want to quantify caliber by number in use, the 9mm is far more used around the world than the .45.

[ChrisO]

The Glock 9mm or 45 GAP hasn't the stopping power of a 1911 in 45 ACP. Do a search. There is a reason military used the 1911 for so many years. Dependable. One shot, One kill. What good is capacity if you have to hit your enemy 3 times? A 10 rnd 9mm can defend against 3.33 crackheads, an 8 rnd 45 ACP can defend against 8 criminals. Providing you can shoot. You do the math. Enough said..


Damn it, You just lost all credibility in this thread. Stopping power IS BS. Working as a EMT I have seen some nasty s*** and put it this way 9mm kills pople pretty damn dead, Most the time it's FMJ's (from what I have seen). I load my mag with FMJ's and HP's I just make sure that the rounds work in my gun. There is a reason for doing what I do but I don't want to get into it, I'm tired right now.

[Shenaniguns]

The Glock 9mm or 45 GAP hasn't the stopping power of a 1911 in 45 ACP. Do a search. There is a reason military used the 1911 for so many years. Dependable. One shot, One kill. What good is capacity if you have to hit your enemy 3 times? A 10 rnd 9mm can defend against 3.33 crackheads, an 8 rnd 45 ACP can defend against 8 criminals. Providing you can shoot. You do the math. Enough said..



Have you even touched a real firearm? Maybe in 10 years when you turn 21 you can own one.

[natomasboy]

The Glock 9mm or 45 GAP hasn't the stopping power of a 1911 in 45 ACP. Do a search. There is a reason military used the 1911 for so many years. Dependable. One shot, One kill. What good is capacity if you have to hit your enemy 3 times? A 10 rnd 9mm can defend against 3.33 crackheads, an 8 rnd 45 ACP can defend against 8 criminals. Providing you can shoot. You do the math. Enough said..

Wow. Wow. Really? I don't have to aim or anything.. just one shot, one kill?

[Voo]

The Glock 9mm or 45 GAP hasn't the stopping power of a 1911 in 45 ACP. Do a search. There is a reason military used the 1911 for so many years. Dependable. One shot, One kill. What good is capacity if you have to hit your enemy 3 times? A 10 rnd 9mm can defend against 3.33 crackheads, an 8 rnd 45 ACP can defend against 8 criminals. Providing you can shoot. You do the math. Enough said..

What if you get them to stack up? How many crackheads do you think you could get then? I mean, if you shot that way, you could easily get more than 8 kills, all the while saving on ammo and money!

Lemme know what you think of that idea as well..

[ren]

man. this thread turned into caliber pissing contest.

to add fuel to the fire, when I akimbo my usp45 I do more damage than the m9.

wait, we were talking about cod right?

[Mr_Monkeywrench]

How reliable are the Springfield Loaded models? I have one and Ive only put like 200 rounds through it without a problem. I just hate how the stainless slide gets marked up so easily. even with a kydex holster. :(

[7222 Hawker]

The Glock 9mm or 45 GAP hasn't the stopping power of a 1911 in 45 ACP. Do a search. There is a reason military used the 1911 for so many years. Dependable. One shot, One kill. What good is capacity if you have to hit your enemy 3 times? A 10 rnd 9mm can defend against 3.33 crackheads, an 8 rnd 45 ACP can defend against 8 criminals. Providing you can shoot. You do the math. Enough said..

Amen brother. Best advice on this thread.

[7222 Hawker]

I think there is a misconception out there that a Glock will NEVER malfunction. Or a Sig for that matter. This is false. They are good guns but they also fail like any other pistol. The Springfield XD is a superb pistol but even that will fail. I have all of these guns, and then I have a Springfield 1911A1. Whenever I want to hit anything, I grab the 1911. It is a quality gun, points well, stops threats and I just basically love it more than any other pistol I have ever owned. This all is personal preference of course. It is totally reliable and a pleasure to shoot.

[locosway]

What if you get them to stack up? How many crackheads do you think you could get then? I mean, if you shot that way, you could easily get more than 8 kills, all the while saving on ammo and money!

Lemme know what you think of that idea as well..

just imagine a Glock 20... 15 rounds of 10mm goodness. Man, you could probably shoot through 150 people with this, 10 with each round. Of course you could get those thermonuke bullets too, then you could just down entire city blocks.

[ninjawho?]

just imagine a Glock 20... 15 rounds of 10mm goodness. Man, you could probably shoot through 150 people with this, 10 with each round. Of course you could get those thermonuke bullets too, then you could just down entire city blocks.

now we're talking...........:52:

[Code7inOaktown]

The Glock 9mm or 45 GAP hasn't the stopping power of a 1911 in 45 ACP. Do a search. There is a reason military used the 1911 for so many years. Dependable. One shot, One kill. What good is capacity if you have to hit your enemy 3 times? A 10 rnd 9mm can defend against 3.33 crackheads, an 8 rnd 45 ACP can defend against 8 criminals. Providing you can shoot. You do the math. Enough said..

http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/Abstract.aspx?id=253695
"The 3-day Wound Ballistic Workshop was held at the FBI Academy on September 15-17, 1987, to present expert opinions on the factors involved in handgun wounding and the relative effectiveness of 9mm and .45 automatic caliber handguns. Key findings of the participants included: except for hits to the central nervous system, instant incapacitation is not possible with any handgun bullet; temporary cavitation caused by a handgun round has no wounding effect; penetration of the bullet is a function of bullet mass and design, not velocity, thus given equal penetration, a bigger bullet will disrupt more tissue and potentially cause greater bleeding; none of the eight experts were able to say definitively that the larger .45 automatic round caused more damage than the 9mm round; and four of the eight experts found that there was no difference in the wounding effects of either caliber given equal penetration."


http://www.lawofficer.com/article/training/officer-down-warriors-sacrific
"Mettinger absorbed nine rounds from Borders' .45—six of which hit him in the torso and two more of which literally severed his right foot—without any significant effect on his fighting ability. This would have been remarkable even if Officer Borders had been firing marginally effective rounds, but he was using .45 caliber Gold Dot ammunition, which is considered by many to be the best man-stopper on the market."


Roy F. Dunlap, Ordnance Went Up Front,
"However, men like that are so scarce that they cannot be counted in any army. The old claim of “the .45 knocks ‘em down if it hits ‘em in the arm of leg” carries no weight with anyone who has actually seen any bullet work on humans. Sometimes a .45 might flatten a man with a minor wound, but I have known of Japanese soldiers who absorbed a burst in the body from a Thompson and went down fighting."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27829109/
"A man says his cell phone saved his life. A stray .45-caliber bullet hit R.J. Richard's chest while he was mowing the lawn — hitting so hard he thought it was a stone kicked out by his tractor. He pulled out the phone. It fell apart."

http://www.jcs-group.com/oldwest/peoples/underhill.html
"The female, later identified as Eva Mae Nichols, jumped up running toward the front door screaming hysterically when suddenly she crumpled to the floor in a bloody heap hit squarely in the stomach by a pair of steel jacketed .45 caliber rounds. Amazingly, she found the strength to gain her footing and rush out the front door and on to the front yard where she abruptly pitched forward to the ground when a machinegun round struck her in the foot."

"Sheriff Rogers reported he approached the individual who he recognized as Wilbur Underhill and after checking out his wounds, leaned down telling him, "You're in a bad way, boy." Underhill haltingly replied "Ya, I'm shot to hell, they got me five times. I counted the slugs as they hit me. When I set sail they really poured it to me." Rogers stated "His back was peppered with shotgun wounds and he had been struck by .45 slugs in the head, right arm, back, and right leg," adding, " How he got through that hail of lead and ran sixteen blocks suffering from those terrible wounds is beyond understanding.”

Get it? It's a pistol round. It's not a magic beam that makes people vanish.

[Bart1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by diginit
The Glock 9mm or 45 GAP hasn't the stopping power of a 1911 in 45 ACP. Do a search. There is a reason military used the 1911 for so many years. Dependable. One shot, One kill. What good is capacity if you have to hit your enemy 3 times? A 10 rnd 9mm can defend against 3.33 crackheads, an 8 rnd 45 ACP can defend against 8 criminals. Providing you can shoot. You do the math. Enough said..

Wow. Wow. Really? I don't have to aim or anything.. just one shot, one kill?


I have maybe the cheapest 1911 you can buy and I have put about 2k rnds thru it with only one stove pipe. This is because I let a buddy shoot it and he must have limped wirst it. As far as I know this is a totally stock Thompson Auto Ordnance (non Kahr) 9mm. Just yesterday I put shot another 300 rnds at JA and NO JAM at all. AO are suppose to be very unreliable...must be the .45 cal versions. I payed $290 for this gun and has so far been as reliable as my XD9 Tactical. The XD has not one single jam in about 4k rnds now. BTW I only really mostly shoot my own reloads. FMJ RNS 7.0 gr HS6 powder.

Same friend that shot my 1911 was a die hard .45 guy and after 500 or so rounds from my XD9 and AO 1911 he is now looking for a full size 9mm. I had a Colt .45 government and I traded it.

Shooting a 9mm 1911 is absolutely the best if your into 9mm. Same loud bang and flash(depends on the powder)from any other 9mm but it is the smoooooothes 9 you will ever fire...mine is. 10 rnds Wilson Combat magazine is what I use in mine.

Just saying.

[xbimmers]

I have 2 1911 models. a Kimber and a RIA, both work great. The only suggestion I have is to test fire the ammo you are going to carry and always test fire any new magazines you add to your stash.

[InGrAM]

Choose the higher cap glock. The more rounds the better. But if your glock only holds 11 rounds {chamber included} it doesn't really matter all the much.

I see the glock as a SHTF weapon. {Do you REALLY NEED a hummer? no. When SHTF would it be awesome to have, YES. But can your 89 bronco 4x4 get you almost everywhere you need to go, YES} Its kind of like that.

{do you really need the glocks dirt, ice, sh*#, mud, sand, drag it behind a car for 10 miles then pick it up and shoot a full mag through it reliability for home defense? No, would be my answer.

[InGrAM]

I have maybe the cheapest 1911 you can buy and I have put about 2k rnds thru it with only one stove pipe. This is because I let a buddy shoot it and he must have limped wirst it. As far as I know this is a totally stock Thompson Auto Ordnance (non Kahr) 9mm. Just yesterday I put shot another 300 rnds at JA and NO JAM at all. AO are suppose to be very unreliable...must be the .45 cal versions. I payed $290 for this gun and has so far been as reliable as my XD9 Tactical. The XD has not one single jam in about 4k rnds now. BTW I only really shoot my one reloads.

Same friend that shot my 1911 was a die hard .45 guy and after 500 or so rounds from my XD9 and AO 1911 he is now looking for a full size 9mm. I had a Colt .45 government and I traded it.

Shooting a 9mm 1911 is absolutely the best if your into 9mm. Same loud bang and flash(depends on the powder)from any other 9mm but it is the smoooooothes 9 you will ever fire...mine is. 10 rnds Wilson Combat magazine is what I use in mine.

Just saying.

2nd this. My ria gi in 9mm is my favorite gun :)

[kyletxria1911]

me i have 3 rocks all 3 cost less than 1200.00 the brand new on nib shot 9-10 rings all day
for 200 rds no ftf fte no nada both my used fs 5k in it the 4in 4.5k(mind you i shot this in less than a year and a half) and both are in my edc the new nickel is just waiting, for her
turn after 300 more also i only shoot hard ball and they all run