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View Full Version : 5.56 vs 6.8 vs 7.62x39


mike_the_wino
10-21-2010, 12:05 PM
Shooting the **** with my brother on the phone last weekend and the talk turned to guns, of course, as he and I had both recently built ARs. Apparently, like potato chips, one just isn't enough as we are both thinking of building a second black rifle. I was thinking 20" varmint, BB while he is thinking carbine but in 6.8. I have no experience with 6.8 but we both have pre-ban sporter KBI (yugo AK knock offs). His reasoning was that he wanted a home defense carbine. My feeling is if one wants home defense, get a shotgun but if he wants a 'home defense carbine', the KBI is short enough for that purpose.

Thoughts?
Ballistically what's the difference between the 6.8 and 7.62x39?

ZX-10R
10-21-2010, 12:09 PM
6.8 rounds are NOT cheap if you plan to take it an shoot it like a gun as opposed to it being a safe queen.

1lostinspace
10-21-2010, 12:10 PM
not much until you get out there. The 6.8 will be far more accurate but shooting 10' in front of you it does not matter, I would also like to add that .223 in 75gr JHP will kill just as good as anything else

1lostinspace
10-21-2010, 12:14 PM
I don't see why guys build 7.62x39 with AR get an AK. I also don't get why people think 5.56 will not stop a threat. The lack of stopping power is coming from military situtation where they are shooting m855 ( A steel penetrator) at little skinny insurgents. The following rounds will kill just fine, 55SP 60Vmax 75JHP 77SMK JHP on most PT or SP beyond 55gr+

mif_slim
10-21-2010, 12:18 PM
I heard the 1oz slug works wonders at 10 feet. ;)

(im not thinking clearly right now.. multi-multi tasking. lol)

.223 will have faster follow up shot, 7.62 will be plenty "knock down" power and the 6.8 will be just about the 7.62 with a whole lotta "ump" in it with both the latter rounds having slower follow up shots.

DannyInSoCal
10-21-2010, 12:19 PM
I like the extra punch from my 6.8 -

In the last training session - Everyone with .223's was hitting the metal targets.

I was the only one knocking them over...

mike_the_wino
10-21-2010, 12:19 PM
safe queen.
HA! I think I found a new nickname for my brother. :D

I knew the price of ammo was quite a bit more.

ZX-10R
10-21-2010, 12:21 PM
Just get an AK pattern rifle and you two guns.

mif_slim
10-21-2010, 12:23 PM
I like the extra punch from my 6.8 -

In the last training session - Everyone with .223's was hitting the metal targets.

I was the only one knocking them over...

lol. I like!

One thing though, they went home with a thicker wallet. ;) jk jk jk!

mike_the_wino
10-21-2010, 12:32 PM
I don't see why guys build 7.62x39 with AR get an AK.
We both owned the AK variants before building ARs.

I also don't get why people think 5.56 will not stop a threat. The lack of stopping power is coming from military situtation where they are shooting m855 ( A steel penetrator) at little skinny insurgents. The following rounds will kill just fine, 55SP 60Vmax 75JHP 77SMK JHP on most PT or SP beyond 55gr+
I failed to mention that his AR is a 18" barrel with a fixed stock, bit unwieldy for home defense. That's why I was recommending that he use the KBI or build a 5.56 carbine.

Personally I haven't ever concerned myself with the academic question of stopping power but more concerned about what happens when said bullet exits target and what happens/ where it goes beyond that which is why I was recommending shot gun to him...or a pistol with hollow points.

Josh3239
10-21-2010, 1:15 PM
The problem with ARs in 7.62x39 lies in the feeding. 7.62x39 AR mags tend to be poorly made anyways and with the taper makes it a weak platform. I would never trust my life to that. The only 7.62x39 that would durable enough would be the MGI platform. But the price on that is ridiculous.

The 6.8 while a better option in an AR than a 7.62x39 IMO still suffers issues. I still don't believe the magazine/feeding is durable enough and the ammunition is expensive.

Bottom line is the AR is made for the 5.56mm and the 5.56mm for the AR. The 5.56mm has been adopted in many countries, stopped a lot of people from breathing and is not only immensily popular in LE and military around the world, but also for competition shooters and hunters. The advances in just the 5.56mm bullet itself has been huge. Unlike battlefields were the criticisms of the 5.56mm has been raised, for home defense you will not be engaging anyone past 100 yards and not only do you not need enhanced penetration, but over penetration can be concern.

Take the money you guys want to spend on these home defense ARs your dreaming of and instead take a class and learn to fight with whatever is currently sitting on your nightstand or in your safe. If you want a heavier hitting AR look into an AR10/LR308, if you want a 7.62x39 look into an AK.

1lostinspace
10-21-2010, 1:47 PM
I like the extra punch from my 6.8 -

In the last training session - Everyone with .223's was hitting the metal targets.

I was the only one knocking them over...

Knockdown power is a myth! You will not knock a man down with a 6.8 from momentum alone.

6.8 has more power but the .223 will get the job done just fine

PatriotnMore
10-21-2010, 1:55 PM
I enjoyed this read on comparison. I really like the 6.8 as a military and hunting round, not sure it will catch on with the military brass tho.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/243_WSSM.asp

1lostinspace
10-21-2010, 1:58 PM
I enjoyed this read on comparison. I really like the 6.8 as a military and hunting round, not sure it will catch on with the military brass tho.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/243_WSSM.asp

no It will never be a military round

People that say oh we should use nothing but .308 blah blah have not strapped on a combat load and ran up a hill! Just with ESAPI plates you will be wishing you were caring a .22LR:D

PatriotnMore
10-21-2010, 2:03 PM
no It will never be a military round

People that say oh we should use nothing but .308 blah blah have not strapped on a combat load and ran up a hill! Just will that ESAPI plates you will be wishing you were caring a .22LR:D

I am a believer, long with my AR, I own my magazine fed hunting 30-06, I know about the advantage of the .223 in carrying ammo.:D

But, the 243/6mm/6.8mm/270, is not a bad compromise, imo.

1lostinspace
10-21-2010, 2:10 PM
I am a believer, long with my AR, I own my magazine fed hunting 30-06, I know about the advantage of the .223 in carrying ammo.:D

But, the 243/6mm/6.8mm/270, is not a bad compromise, imo.

I think the 6.8 would be great if your not on the move, for the average civilian it's perfect, but in combat weight counts!.

I think the 5.56 has more then enough power to kill! It's very accurate even at long range 500 meters on in, not to mention unless you are scoped and laying down with bipod and bags you are not going to hit anything past 200 anyways.
I shot a coyote not long ago with a 55gr SP and it blew a huge whole in it:43: length ways, it was dead before it hit the ground! Felt sorry for it for about 3 seconds then got over it:D

PatriotnMore
10-21-2010, 2:12 PM
I think the 6.8 would be great if your not on the move, for the average civilian it's perfect, but in combat weight counts!.

I think the 5.56 has more then enough power to kill! It's very accurate even at long range 500 meters on in, not to mention unless you are scoped and laying down with bipod and bags you are not going to hit anything past 200 anyways.
I shot a coyote not long ago with a 55gr SP and it blew a huge whole in it:43: length ways, it was dead before it hit the ground! Felt sorry for it for about 3 seconds then got over it:D

Yep, the .223 gives some pretty devastating result on soft flesh targets.:)

mike_the_wino
10-21-2010, 3:48 PM
Thanks for the input gents!

I hear ya Josh3239.

Bug Splat
10-21-2010, 3:52 PM
My good buddy who is a Marine came back from the Iraq and Afgan last year after two tours and said he and his guys absolutely hated the 5.56 round. He has many many stories of fire fights and said the 5.56 never did the job fast enough. Sure it killed its target but it did not do it quickly. He told me stories of him hitting a guy a few times center chest and he just got back up and tried to fire back. No body armer or anything, just clothes. I trust his real life stories over ballistics gel at some military range.

It was all his stories that fueled my Saiga purchase. He loved the 7.62X39 for 200 yards or less fights and saw its affect firsthand on both sides of the fight.

ir0nclash86
10-21-2010, 4:10 PM
My good buddy who is a Marine came back from the Iraq and Afgan last year after two tours and said he and his guys absolutely hated the 5.56 round. He has many many stories of fire fights and said the 5.56 never did the job fast enough. Sure it killed its target but it did not do it quickly. He told me stories of him hitting a guy a few times center chest and he just got back up and tried to fire back. No body armer or anything, just clothes. I trust his real life stories over ballistics gel at some military range.

It was all his stories that fueled my Saiga purchase. He loved the 7.62X39 for 200 yards or less fights and saw its affect firsthand on both sides of the fight.

You'd be surprised at what a man can do when his body is full of drugs.

Toast
10-21-2010, 4:13 PM
My good buddy who is a Marine came back from the Iraq and Afgan last year after two tours and said he and his guys absolutely hated the 5.56 round. He has many many stories of fire fights and said the 5.56 never did the job fast enough. Sure it killed its target but it did not do it quickly. He told me stories of him hitting a guy a few times center chest and he just got back up and tried to fire back. No body armer or anything, just clothes. I trust his real life stories over ballistics gel at some military range.

It was all his stories that fueled my Saiga purchase. He loved the 7.62X39 for 200 yards or less fights and saw its affect firsthand on both sides of the fight.

M855 is a stupid round... They should start issuing MK262 or 55 grain stuff again at least.

Cali-Shooter
10-21-2010, 4:55 PM
AK-47 all the way (ex-AR-15 owner)... I love the 7.62x39. If I don't feel like having to pick up all the precious brass from calibers such as .223, I just need to load my mags for my AK with the steel cased Ruskie ammo and I'm gtg.

.223 is decent, it's lighter, more accurate, and less kicking in recoil than 7.62x39.

But I like the x39 because it has decent stopping power, is widely available, gets the job done (300 yds range), and the price is right.

IMO 6.8 is a terrible caliber to have as a primary rifle. It's overpriced, is not widely available or accepted, and is very new on the market. You will not find manufacturers selling it on any scale near calibers like .223, .308, and 7.62x39.

Bug Splat
10-21-2010, 5:29 PM
IMO 6.8 is a terrible caliber to have as a primary rifle. It's overpriced, is not widely available or accepted, and is very new on the market. You will not find manufacturers selling it on any scale near calibers like .223, .308, and 7.62x39.

I agree 100%. Scrounge power is a very important thing. Having the worlds most popular round along with the worlds more popular magazine is a huge plus for me.

Bongos
10-21-2010, 6:50 PM
Even if you reload, the 6.8 is still expensive. If you need a little more power look at the 6x45 (30% more than the 556 and 150 yards farther) but if you need a intermidiate, look at the 6.5 Grendel. The reason why people like the 6.8 or 6.5 is because at close range the 7.62x39 has more energy, unfortunately, pass 200 yards, the accuracy goes to .... Thus the 6.5 and 6.8 bullets have better BC for longer distances. you get the best of both worlds. Unfortunate, brass is extremely hard to find for both.

Reason I went with the 6x45, it uses a 6mm bullet and 223 brass

wsmc27
10-22-2010, 2:48 PM
I like the extra punch from my 6.8 -

In the last training session - Everyone with .223's was hitting the metal targets.

I was the only one knocking them over...

:p

I >SAW< that!

Loved the sound of your 6.8, it barked HARD!

Too much $$ per round for us to consider. :(