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.50ca
07-14-2010, 5:11 PM
Ok i recently have had some legal troubles. My H&K sl8-6 got taken from me and now the DA is trying to say it is a illegal assault rifle. I bought this gun through a ca gun store and it has a raddlock with a 10rnd mag. They are saying it is illegal because of the thumbhole stock. Is there a penal code that says i am not allowed "evil features" with a maglock? Is he mistaking my fake flash suppressor for a real one. The doj has no problems with my ar's but for some reason they are freaking out about the thumb hole stock.
Thank you for your time and help.

curtisfong
07-14-2010, 5:13 PM
Have you looked at this yet?

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

fd15k
07-14-2010, 5:15 PM
Have you looked at this yet?

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

That's not the problem. Looks like this is a case for CGF lawyers...

abusalim81
07-14-2010, 5:19 PM
Call Calguns lawyer ASAP!!! (650)275-1015 or (800)556-2109

otalps
07-14-2010, 5:20 PM
Contact CGF, this thread:


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=245866

bwiese
07-14-2010, 5:28 PM
Ok i recently have had some legal troubles. My H&K sl8-6 got taken from me and now the DA is trying to say it is a illegal assault rifle. I bought this gun through a ca gun store and it has a raddlock with a 10rnd mag. They are saying it is illegal because of the thumbhole stock. Is there a penal code that says i am not allowed "evil features" with a maglock? Is he mistaking my fake flash suppressor for a real one. The doj has no problems with my ar's but for some reason they are freaking out about the thumb hole stock.
Thank you for your time and help.


Baby, you're covered. We'll help you. Don't say anything more to anyone except an attorney.

You'll be OK. Breathe easy. Not only that, we'll get your gun back.

Call CGF at 800-556-2109 and if everything is as you say it is (i.e, the gun indeed is correctly configured to avoid SB23 and doesn't violate any other law, and you're not a fleeing felon or sitting on a bunch of drugs), we will back you.

The DA/cops are wrong and it's time for another CGF "educational session". These are getting easy now.

As you know, all "evil features" (except grenade launcher, but including pistol grips, flash hiders, folding or thumbhole stocks, etc.) indeed can be present on a semiauto centerfire rifle, if that rifle does not have a detachable magazine. You state you have a BulletButton-style mag lock device and a 10rd magazine, which makes that magazine nondetachable as per 11 CCR 5469 definition of 'detachable magazine'.

Even the DOJ BoF publicly acknowledges this: gunshops & gunshow vendors are routinely audited/inspected with such rifles on the shelf in open public display. Everytime we look up another 5,000 are sold.

You're gonna be OK.

curtisfong
07-14-2010, 5:34 PM
That's not the problem.

Sure it is. PC 12276.1(a) does not apply to rifles that do not have the capacity to accept detachable magazines.

fd15k
07-14-2010, 5:37 PM
Sure it is. PC 12276.1(a) does not apply to rifles that do not have the capacity to accept detachable magazines.

Man, read the thread above :) Dude doesn't need to go through the flowchart, he needs a firearms lawyer.

G17GUY
07-14-2010, 5:43 PM
Man, read the thread above :) Dude doesn't need to go through the flowchart, he needs a firearms lawyer.

He got one when he posted here.:p

curtisfong
07-14-2010, 5:44 PM
Man, read the thread above :) Dude doesn't need to go through the flowchart, he needs a firearms lawyer.

Not disagreeing that he needs a lawyer, just saying it's pretty dumb to buy an OLL setup w/o knowing the law FIRST. It is a shame that that is the case, but hey, it's reality in CA.

Buy an OLL, make sure you know the law. Period.

fd15k
07-14-2010, 5:44 PM
He got one when he posted here.:p

Obviously not a CGF one :p

stix213
07-14-2010, 5:45 PM
oh damn, that SL8-6 looks like a bad *** rifle by the way. I'm sure you'll have it back by your next range visit. (actually not sure, but with CGF on the case it will be ASAFP definately)

http://www.tacticalgunarmory.com/v/vspfiles/photos/41599.jpg

fd15k
07-14-2010, 5:47 PM
Not disagreeing that he needs a lawyer, just saying it's pretty dumb to buy an OLL setup w/o knowing the law FIRST. It is a shame that that is the case, but hey, it's reality in CA.

Buy an OLL, make sure you know the law. Period.

I have to disagree with you on this one. He stated he bought it from a store, and unless I got it wrong, he hasn't modified it.

It's not my problem to know legality of a highly regulated item sold in at a highly regulated establishment. Once again, that's assuming it's possessed and used in original configuration.

curtisfong
07-14-2010, 5:51 PM
It's not my problem to know legality of a highly regulated item sold in at a highly regulated establishment. Once again, that's assuming it's possessed and used in original configuration.

Unfortunately, in CA, it is your problem, as evidenced by the OP's experience. BB/OLL setups are growing in popularity, but the average person doesn't know what sort of potential legal troubles he is buying into, even if is the fault of ignorant LEO/DAs etc.

IMO if you are going to play with a BB/OLL, it behooves you to understand the law, BEFORE you have ANY interactions with LEO. If you don't, you are playing with fire.

otalps
07-14-2010, 5:56 PM
In the situation of ignorant LEO/DA's it does not matter if you understand the law. That is why we have the CGF.

bwiese
07-14-2010, 5:58 PM
I dunno what people are *****ing about (other than the incident itself).

- it's off-list
- it has a BBmaglock/10rd mag => "nondetachable"
- it has ~20" barrel length
- overall length is way over 30"
- ====> it can have all evil features outside G/L

otalps
07-14-2010, 6:03 PM
I'm with you bwiese, I can't wait to hear about the police and the DA getting set straight on this.

fd15k
07-14-2010, 6:07 PM
Unfortunately, in CA, it is your problem, as evidenced by the OP's experience. BB/OLL setups are growing in popularity, but the average person doesn't know what sort of potential legal troubles he is buying into, even if is the fault of ignorant LEO/DAs etc.

IMO if you are going to play with a BB/OLL, it behooves you to understand the law, BEFORE you have ANY interactions with LEO. If you don't, you are playing with fire.

Well, go to Turners, and see who their typical customers are, what kind of rifles and how they sell there.

I dunno what people are *****ing about (other than the incident itself).

- it's off-list
- it has a BBmaglock/10rd mag => "nondetachable"
- it has ~20" barrel length
- overall length is way over 30"
- ====> it can have all evil features outside G/L

No problem with the incident itself or the rifle in question. There is some disagreement on level of legal awareness a typical firearm owner should have.

stix213
07-14-2010, 6:14 PM
I'm with you bwiese, I can't wait to hear about the police and the DA getting set straight on this.

Yes please update thread after the dust settles

curtisfong
07-14-2010, 6:19 PM
No problem with the incident itself or the rifle in question. There is some disagreement on level of legal awareness a typical firearm owner should have.

Agreed :)

PsychGuy274
07-14-2010, 6:43 PM
Take 'em to the cleaners

.50ca
07-14-2010, 9:19 PM
Thank you all for the help. I will keep you posted........

jdberger
07-15-2010, 12:35 AM
Unfortunately, in CA, it is your problem, as evidenced by the OP's experience. BB/OLL setups are growing in popularity, but the average person doesn't know what sort of potential legal troubles he is buying into, even if is the fault of ignorant LEO/DAs etc.

IMO if you are going to play with a BB/OLL, it behooves you to understand the law, BEFORE you have ANY interactions with LEO. If you don't, you are playing with fire.

Absolutely correct. You can help.

All you have to do is walk into your local gunstore and ask them if they'd be willing to display (and hand out) some Calguns materials.

Hook up with your local C3 guy who you can find here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=183) and see how you can help.

Really, what could be better? Spread the word and you get to visit your local gunshops.

And it's a great excuse to get out of the house!

SJgunguy24
07-15-2010, 1:00 AM
Well, go to Turners, and see who their typical customers are, what kind of rifles and how they sell there.



No problem with the incident itself or the rifle in question. There is some disagreement on level of legal awareness a typical firearm owner should have.

Yep, people will buy whatever a gunshop employee will tell them. I happen to work at a shop at the moment but we tend to be at the forefront of the OLL revolution and have been harassed by the DOJ a couple of times. We know the laws period. Now we had a guy come in last week with a DMPS Panther AR 10 style lower and a parts kit. He said he bought it at a store in CA and was told it was 100% legal, but that he had to build it up. He brought that into the shop for us to build for him. When we told him we couldn't he asked why. Right there is the perfect example of why any OLL owner needs to have a good working knowledge of the AW laws in CA.
Lets say that guy did build that up and ordered an upper form midway or another vendor. He gets busted and says he bought it at a shop so it has to be legal.....FAIL, do not pass go, don't collect 200$, your off to prison period. Why? Because he bought it from a shop and they have to be right:rolleyes:

Consider the source, if your shop knows whats up and you can verify that, then and only then can you trust them but.....but, always double check.

abusalim81
07-15-2010, 1:26 AM
WOW so much BS on this thread.... Just read the original post and read BWeise post and after that everybody should just chill out until further news.... Stop the pissing match!

WokMaster1
07-15-2010, 8:45 AM
Anyone knows where this happened? County? City?

WatchMan
07-15-2010, 9:02 AM
Baby, you're covered. We'll help you. Don't say anything more to anyone except an attorney.

You'll be OK. Breathe easy. Not only that, we'll get your gun back.

Call CGF at 800-556-2109 and if everything is as you say it is (i.e, the gun indeed is correctly configured to avoid SB23 and doesn't violate any other law, and you're not a fleeing felon or sitting on a bunch of drugs), we will back you.

The DA/cops are wrong and it's time for another CGF "educational session". These are getting easy now.

As you know, all "evil features" (except grenade launcher, but including pistol grips, flash hiders, folding or thumbhole stocks, etc.) indeed can be present on a semiauto centerfire rifle, if that rifle does not have a detachable magazine. You state you have a BulletButton-style mag lock device and a 10rd magazine, which makes that magazine nondetachable as per 11 CCR 5469 definition of 'detachable magazine'.

Even the DOJ BoF publicly acknowledges this: gunshops & gunshow vendors are routinely audited/inspected with such rifles on the shelf in open public display. Everytime we look up another 5,000 are sold.

You're gonna be OK.

CGF ROCKS!

wash
07-15-2010, 9:14 AM
While it's sad that these types of incidents are still happening (cops that don't know the law), I hope that we can improve things with a little McDonald vs. Chicago 101 to get the police ready for the rest of their B.S. gun laws to go down the toilet.

At the very least, let them know that continuing to violate a fundamental civil right will have legal repercussions.

the_quark
07-15-2010, 10:13 AM
While it's sad that these types of incidents are still happening (cops that don't know the law), I hope that we can improve things with a little McDonald vs. Chicago 101 to get the police ready for the rest of their B.S. gun laws to go down the toilet.

At the very least, let them know that continuing to violate a fundamental civil right will have legal repercussions.

Well, we have the famous 58 DAs. Many of them aren't going to do anything stupid like this, but the rest of them, we have to wait for them to make a mistake like this, and then force them in the civil rights settlement to agree to train their police forces on what the law is. Hopefully the more this happens the more the word gets out, but I bet we'll have a case like this pending in a few years when we finally overturn SB-23 ;)

Also, realistically, he'll get his gun back, but probably not in time for his next range day. Experience in these cases is that it usually takes at least 90 days to get the charges dropped, and then you have to file the paperwork to actually get the gun back. So, three to six months is probably a realistic guess.

jdberger
07-15-2010, 9:39 PM
OP - contact CGF right now, please. Leave a message with contact info if you don't get an answer.

800-556-2109

We can't help you if you don't call us.

Help us help you which helps all of us.

patriot_man
07-16-2010, 12:06 AM
oh damn, that SL8-6 looks like a bad *** rifle by the way. I'm sure you'll have it back by your next range visit. (actually not sure, but with CGF on the case it will be ASAFP definately)

http://www.tacticalgunarmory.com/v/vspfiles/photos/41599.jpg

Would be more bad *** if he converted it to a G36. Good luck and hope you get the help you need to get your property back!

N6ATF
07-16-2010, 6:32 PM
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-pictures-cats-want-squirrel.jpg