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View Full Version : how did shotgun values turn upside down


TERRYGER
05-14-2010, 9:44 AM
i cruise the gun wantadds on about 10 different pages so i can keep up with prices and what's being traded.

for those that have been into shotguns for more than 5 years and have owned more than 1 it is commaon knowledge that semi auots have always sold for double the price of pumps and some semis have sold for thousands more than that.

it is true there are a very tiny amount of "classic pumps" like win model 12(not all versions) etc that have garnered a little more from collectors but on the whole pumps of any model top out at well under $700 used.

i saw thse 2 adds for shotguns, 1 pump made of stamped out steel and plastic and one semi auto made with hand machined parts and upper grade walnut.

along with that, the semi auto was a limited version model chambered in 3 in with and upgraded 30 inch double beaded vr barrel.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/11001.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/8701.jpg


incredibly the cheap pump was priced higher than the quality semi auto. :rolleyes:

now, everyone has the right to sell and buy a weapon for any price they want. that however has nothing to do with the quality of the different weapons.

ie: you can list a bersa .380 for more than a kimber .45 but that does not make them equal:rolleyes:

i'm just not sure where this totally uniformed line of thinking originated since it has nothing to do with reality.

any opinions?

and please, facts only , no emotion. :D

rino
05-14-2010, 10:02 AM
if it has wood and blue and no rails,lasers,flashlights, 1,000 round mag tube and nothing growing off the sides then calguners dont want it:D

im in that boat look: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=299835

shy 7th
05-14-2010, 10:12 AM
Knowing nothing about the guns you listed, I can only offer my experience as a marketing manager (that’s my IRL profession)...

Location of sellers:
Location of the sellers in different markets may be contributing to the asking price of the shotguns. In a high demand market, a seller of a "lower quality" item might be able to ask a higher price because the demand of the market allows for it. Conversely, the seller of the "high quality" item will have to drop his price to be able to move his product in a low demand market. And example would be if the "high quality" shotgun was being sold in rural-ville-poor-***-farm-town where people with money are few and far between, the seller would have to drop his price to even entice someone to spend their money and make the travel to the middle of nowhere.

How "Used" each item is:
An honest seller might list his "high quality" item for a lesser amount because he knows he put 2,000 rounds down the tube rather than trying to pass it off as "barely used" to demand a higher price. Likewise, the seller of the "never used", "lower quality" item might be demanding a higher price because his item has less use.

Incentive to sell:
Each seller might also have different timelines to move their product. If you've ever heard the term "priced to sell" you can understand. Some people really need the money fast and will price their item, no matter the quality, at a lower price and take the loss just to get the money fast. The seller of the "lower quality" item might have more time to wait around for a sucker to pay the asking price. So the price of the item might not reflect the actual value of the item, but rather the dire need for the cash.




any opinions?

and please, facts only

Also, I just found this funny. You ask for opinions and then say "facts only." opinions != facts :p No worries, I know what you mean.

FastFinger
05-14-2010, 10:15 AM
shhhh!!! Scoop up some good deals while you can!

MichaelKent
05-14-2010, 10:18 AM
It could just be the picture, but the quality semiauto looks rather banged up and scuffed on the receiver (it could be engravings, but I can't see it well enough)... obvious damage (even if its just cosmetic) can drop a price fairly substantially. The general wear and tear of the firearm, and overall condition (as opposed to original quality) can be major factors in pricing.

It's also possible he hasn't been able to sell it at the price he originally wanted, and has had to drop the price rather substantially.

However, I expect the price difference between pump and semiauto shotguns will slowly close eventually. As technology and manufacturing costs improve, coupled with wider availability and competition over time, they are liable to get cheaper and cheaper.

Merc1138
05-14-2010, 10:57 AM
They're two different shotguns for two different types of buyers.

The semi auto doesn't appear to have more than what, a 3 round capacity? The synthetic stock pump action looks like it may have a 7 round magazine.

Also, whoever took the photo of that semi auto, did a terrible job. Because what is likely to be engravings on the stock, receiver, and bolt, just looks like the shotgun was beat up in that picture.

teflondog
05-14-2010, 11:43 AM
What I want to know is where I can buy that 1100 for less than an 870. Either it's a really good deal on the 1100 or the 870 is priced really high.

Markus
05-14-2010, 11:55 AM
What I want to know is where I can buy that 1100 for less than an 870. Either it's a really good deal on the 1100 or the 870 is priced really high.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=299835

BMC
05-14-2010, 12:18 PM
An 1100 (the one shown looks like it might actually be a wingmaster) and an 870 Wingmaster will generally be pretty close in asking price with the 1100 usually a little higher depending on the condition if it. But overall they are pretty close. A model 12 is somewhat of a cultish gun, mainly with those who owned and used one during the heyday decades where to a large number of people the model 12 was/is considered one of the most indestructable (and versatile) shotguns ever made.
As Shy stated by and large its a market issue. Here on CGN traditional blue and wood shotguns typically aren't as highly sought and praised as the tacticool looking ones. I often catagorize it like this. A person who plays war video games will be interested in, and often pay the assumed high asking price for a tacticool looking shotgun where as someone who does not subscribe to the SHTF mantra and probably doesn't even own a playstation will lean in favor of the more traditional shotgun such as the 1100 posted above.
Of the two posted, the 1100 is bone stock to the eyes of some. The 870-looking tacticool HD one has "added value" with the aftermarket accessories added to it.

BMC
05-14-2010, 12:24 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=299835

That's a damn low price for an 1100, even with the scratched stock. With that gun the 30" fixed full barrel would be considered "added value" to many people, particularly those who shoot clay games. I'd like to have that barrel!

rino
05-14-2010, 12:30 PM
^ you are right but it doesnt help me , i cant shoot steel out of it

BMC
05-14-2010, 12:38 PM
Not sure why you can't shoot steel out of it. I've shot steel out of 30" fixed full barrels with no problems.

Killawhale415
05-14-2010, 3:29 PM
Hmm since when does remington use "stamped" steel

shrap
05-14-2010, 8:59 PM
The 1100 is at the end of its popularity. Newer models have come and gone, many with better reliability than the 1100. The top sporting guns are over/unders now, not semis. A 3" chamber is a negative in the clay games, not a positive. The number of people in the market for this 1100 isn't very high.

On the other hand, the pump gun, especially in tacti-cool configuration, is especially in fashion now.

TERRYGER
05-15-2010, 1:30 PM
well, with some of the responses its certainly obvious why the prices have gotten to be ridiculously unbalanced:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

PMN
05-15-2010, 1:56 PM
Well Im new to all this and all I can say is I was very happy to find a lightly used 1100 for the price I found it at (380.00) :cool:. I do like the Tacticool look but I wanted a nice Skeet gun and the 1100 was it. To me a clean 1100 with all the wood and engraving looks like a higher end gun that an all black one but thats just my opinion. Now down the road if I ever want to sell my 1100 I hope the value is back where it should be.

Rob454
05-15-2010, 2:16 PM
Like anything else unfortunately guns do not have round count meters so you cannot get a accurate idea of how much use something has. Some people dont care for shotguns and some prefer semi auto over pumps or tactical look over a hunter/old school look
I prefer a hunting style shotgun over a tactical shotgun.
Depending on what price and other factors like what the difference between two comparable guns and difference from a BNIB from a gun store etc I have no problem getting a "used" gun. Most used guns come with extras and if they dont the price difference is substantial compared to a BNIB from a store. And lets face it lots of these "used" guns are basically BNIB

You also have to look buying used vs buying new from a store. if the difference is 20$ its not worth it. if its anywhere over 60-80$ difference IMO its worth it. Anytime you can save close to 100$ its worth it IMO. Tax ALONE saves you at a minimum 30-40$. Most of the guns on here do not get any real use IMO. Some guns are simply hard to get or a PITA to get in the state so demand and price stays high.

I personally don't have "need to sell now to fund other project" mentality not do I sell guns for any other reason than Im bored with it or I simply do not use it. If someone wants to get it for close to my asking price and I ALWAYS entertain offers then i sell it. But I dont ever feel the need to sell the gun to the first low baller or first offer that comes along. nothing wrong with getting a deal. Like anyone else Im on the lookout for a deal and if I get it then good for me. Most of the guns I sold I don't sell on here anyway.

Thefeeder
05-15-2010, 6:05 PM
The market is not upsidedown....well maybe here, but not on other sites. If your selling Tacicool this is the place to list. All others list on the other sites. Although there are those in the know on this site.

The 1100 would have fetched more somewhere else, just my .02. No choke tubes?....I have 1100 barrels NIB that come with 3....listed on this site and not one person put in an offer.

Thats OK, to each their own.