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View Full Version : Going to Frontsight, 4 day defensive handgun


choprzrul
04-08-2010, 6:44 AM
Been to the 2 day defensive handgun course with youngest son, now this weekend my wife, oldest son, and I are taking the 4 day defensive handgun course at Frontsight. Should prove to be an excellent experience.

Anyone else going to be there this weekend?

VictorFranko
04-08-2010, 6:58 AM
It was already warming up when I was there three weeks ago, bring sunblock.
Heck, FS is so complete they even supply you sunblock! Have fun!

socalshooting
04-08-2010, 10:12 AM
I think being there with your family is a rewarding experience by itself.

ZombieTactics
04-08-2010, 10:43 AM
lucky. Haven't made it out this year yet.

jmf_tracy
04-08-2010, 10:55 AM
have fun!

powaybob
04-08-2010, 11:10 AM
I was there last week for a 2 day skills builder. It was chilly and windy, long pants and multiple layers in the morning, and then a layer or two less in the afternoon. After you do the four day, I really recommend the two day skills builder. It is much more focused on tips, techniques and drill than lectures. It put me over the top as far as earning the graduate level with my .45 XD.

They are supposed to be opening 4 or 6 new pistol ranges this weekend. Maybe you will get one. The Front Sight blog from Piazza said that over 800 people would be there this weekend. That has to be the greatest thing to happen to Pahrump since oxygen.

MP301
04-08-2010, 12:15 PM
Im going for anoth 4 day and a 2 skill builder In May....It is probably a good thing FS isnt closer or I would go once a month...

gwl
04-08-2010, 5:52 PM
Why people go out of state for mediocer training when we have Defensive Firearms Training in Coasegold, middle of the state. DFT makes Frontsight look like a joke.

I just looked at their website. Looks pretty good and much closer than FS.

How do you like their classes?

Steve G
04-08-2010, 6:01 PM
I'll be at FS this Friday for the 4 day handgun, got to check out some coooool gun stores today.

LCU1670
04-08-2010, 6:11 PM
My wife and I have 8 more classes this year, can't wait. Have a great time! Don't forget, early mornings and night shoot are sometime cool-cold. Also, prepare for rain, that way it won't! :)

VictorFranko
04-08-2010, 6:47 PM
Why people go out of state for mediocer training when we have Defensive Firearms Training in Coasegold, middle of the state. DFT makes Frontsight look like a joke.

Spencer, I have to ask, have you been to FS? (please be honest!)
Most who knock it seem to never have been.
Coarsegold is only 30 minutes shorter drive the Pahrump for me.
I have Tacfire right in my own backyard, doesn't mean I don't like to mix up the training every now and then.

ZombieTactics
04-08-2010, 8:25 PM
Yes, I have been to Frontsight. Also a Marine if you care.

The QUALITY of the training at Frontsight is laughable compared to what you get at Defensive Firearms Training. Frontsight you can have up to 50 in a class, DFT, maybe eight. Small is not always bad, in training small classes are the best. At DFT, your get personalized attention. My wife and I took were blown away by the quality of the instruction. If you want a nice binder, DFT is not for you. You will shoot and shoot and you will learn to stay alive in a gunfight.

No, I don't have any interest in the company. I just know a good thing when I see it and am trying to pass it along.
There are some obvious clues in this post ... obvious if you've been to Frontsight ... which point strongly (but not conclusively) to suggest something other than complete honesty, or perhaps just not recent experience.

It's a wonderful thing to be proven wrong. Maybe you can give a little more actual detail Marine? Y'know ... flesh out a bit more what you found so laughable about Frontsight?

MP301
04-08-2010, 8:36 PM
Yes, I have been to Frontsight. Also a Marine if you care.

The QUALITY of the training at Frontsight is laughable compared to what you get at Defensive Firearms Training. Frontsight you can have up to 50 in a class, DFT, maybe eight. Small is not always bad, in training small classes are the best. At DFT, your get personalized attention. My wife and I took were blown away by the quality of the instruction. If you want a nice binder, DFT is not for you. You will shoot and shoot and you will learn to stay alive in a gunfight.

No, I don't have any interest in the company. I just know a good thing when I see it and am trying to pass it along.

Well, If you actually did go to FS...and im not saying you didnt... Then to say the quality is laughable is not being honest IHMO. It exceeds all of the training I have had at a couple of schools and my POST Police academy training. You would be the fisrt person that has said anything negative about the training itself that I am aware of.

So, for those reading this post, go take the training he suggests and then go to FS (you can get a first timers cert on ebay for 1-2 hundred bucks for a 4 day class). Then, judge for yourself.

Besides top notch training, FS offers a memebership deal that allows you to go as often as you want (I go 4-5 times a year) and take up to 50 different classes. You can repeat classes to keep yourself in tune as often as you want as well.

I dont think any other schools have this set up. Call it continuing education or keeping your skills finely tuned.

The instructors are mainly LE and Military (Marines included) and are some of the best I have seen in the industry. There is no hanging around BSin about this and that, you are learning from start to finish and they stay on schedule.

But hey, dont take my word for it. I suggestuont you not listen to the detractors, just see for yourself and decide. I have not met any one that was sorry they went yet.

And I dont have any stake in this school either...:)

LCU1670
04-08-2010, 8:42 PM
I served in the Army 26+ yrs. I was stationed on Army-Navy-Airforce-and Marine bases. Had to qualify at least twice a year, and attended their weapons classes. Been to civilian classes and Front Sight. I have always been open minded, and therefore learned something from everyone. I don't agree with everything everyone taught, but I was able to take something away that was useful from everyone. One of the best classes I had was at Yokota AFB, back in '94, who knew? I like FS but more importantly my wife likes FS, and therefore, allows me not only to shoot more, but to have a spouse who wants to shoot too. Plus, we always meet nice peeople there too. Maybe there are better places than FS, but that doesn't mean you cannot go to both! :)

gwl
04-08-2010, 9:04 PM
I like FS but more importantly my wife likes FS, and therefore, allows me not only to shoot more, but to have a spouse who wants to shoot too.

Heck man, that says it all right there.

VictorFranko
04-09-2010, 5:15 AM
Yes, I have been to Frontsight. Also a Marine if you care.

The QUALITY of the training at Frontsight is laughable compared to what you get at Defensive Firearms Training. Frontsight you can have up to 50 in a class, DFT, maybe eight. Small is not always bad, in training small classes are the best. At DFT, your get personalized attention. My wife and I took were blown away by the quality of the instruction. If you want a nice binder, DFT is not for you. You will shoot and shoot and you will learn to stay alive in a gunfight.

No, I don't have any interest in the company. I just know a good thing when I see it and am trying to pass it along.

Spencer, No, that fact you are or were a Marine doesn't matter to me.
Most of us here are serving or have served our country.
In my two trips to FS I have trained alongside current Marines up from Pendleton, some ex-SF (Special Forces, not San Francisco) guys, and some LE (law enforcement, not French) guys. They all seemed to think FS was good and had a good time too.
Here's where I learned how to stay alive in a gunfight, http://www.tacfire.com/
The class size is smaller than FS, like your DFT, but that takes nothing away from the quality of the training and staff at FS.

"Binder"? I never got a binder from FrontSight. I was robbed!

Greg-Dawg
04-09-2010, 5:20 AM
Just don't come back as a ninja.

powaybob
04-09-2010, 5:51 AM
My initial impression of Front Sight was not that positive. We had 42 people in the class with an instructor who was a cynical and sarcastic individual who constantly made fun of the syllabus/script. There were 3 instructors and they generally pay attention to the attractive women in the class or to the better shooters. Those of us really struggling to keep up were pretty much ignored. I was frustrated and disgusted after 4 days and did not come even close to qualifying for "graduate". The good part of the experience was that I was there on the $1200 deal that included an XD and gear, and the dry practice manuals.

I decided that getting to graduate was my goal so I took the 4-day again and missed by a few points. I had dry practiced the draw from concealment, trigger control, sight picture, and malfunctions, but not enough. During that course they kept saying you should be better off than when you started but at the end of the test I was in the same place as when I started, and I was still frustrated.

So I signed up for the 2 day skills builder a month after the second 4-day. It is more intensive on drills and practice and a lot less lecture. In fact, you look forward to a lecture so you can get off your feet for a few minutes. Interestingly I had the same instructor as the first go around- still sarcastic about the syllabus/script but a little more focused on training and provided a lot of tips and drills not seen in the 4-day course or practice manuals. Still, there were 38 people and 3 instructors, but I think they were more focused on giving individual attention than in the 4-day. Again, the cute girls who could shoot got inordinate amounts of attention. After going through the process three times the drills and practice sunk in enough for me to pass the test at graduate level- not by much but I did pass. Fore someone who spends most of their time at a computer thinking grand thoughts about unmanned aircraft systems accomplishing something that requires physical skill and dexterity was an achievement, probably akin to achieving a low handicap in golf.

I do have a membership in Front Sight and plan to go through the rifle and shotgun courses. I have even less experience with them than I did with a handgun so I have no doubt I will experience frustration with my abilities to learn the techniques. But the tuition is free and I can repeat as many times as I want, which is the good part. Other positives are a well thought out syllabus and very skilled instructors that are required to move through the syllabus precisely so you are exposed to the same information no matter which instructor you get. Front Sight turnoffs are large class size, lack of individual attention, lack of plumbing and running water (though the porta-potties are well maintained), and constant up-selling of memberships at lunch breaks (except at the two day skills builder where I think most folks are already members).

Front Sight is a marketing engine that has to be aggressive to keep the ranges filled. In that sense it has to be a case study in marketing and as a business entity should be admired for that. Front Sight does provide solid value especially if you acquire an inexpensive membership that allows you to attend the 2 and 4 day courses. If you get an expensive membership you are in part capitalizing the Front Sight corporation without benefit of dividends as the value grows, and I have my doubts about where that is going. For example, to build a water distribution and sewage management system to handle the scale of community presented in the marketing videos is likely to require tens of millions of dollars in infrastructure costs that would have to be borne by Front Sight since it is doubtful that Nye County would be able or willing to afford to provide it since Front Sight is so isolated from any other community in the area.

But that said, I am satisfied with what I get out of Front Sight, and I would recommend the training there. The only caveat I would offer is that lunch time can feel like an afternoon with a time-share salesman in Cabo San Lucas.

GM_77
04-09-2010, 10:17 AM
Hi,
I have not been to Front Sight and currently do not have an opinion one way or the other, this question is primarly for my own curiosity.

A friend of mine recently came back from a hand gun course. The two things I was wondering about were:

1) He said that they taught him to shoot Weaver.
2) I asked him about what light would he get for his HD pistol. He said lights are a no no because they are bullet magnets.

I was wondering if that is basically what they teach across the board or does it differ by individual instructors?

LCU1670
04-09-2010, 10:56 AM
You are taught weaver, but your taught how to use a flashlight to properly ID your target BUT not become a bullet magnet. Light on-shoot-off-move-on-recheck/scan-off-move. Always move after light is off, and don't be a lighthouse-telegraph your position w/ the light.

All instructors use the same FS approved lesson plan

choprzrul
04-09-2010, 9:10 PM
Day 1 report: Having been to FS once before this was a review day for me. Good to start over again on the basics to keep my techniques clean. Wife and son were pretty much overwhelmed with information, but were able to keep up ok. They both agreed that they learned a lot and are looking forward to more trigger time in the upcoming days.

If any other CGN members are attending and reading this, we are on lane 5. I will be the only one wearing a wide brimmed straw hat. Stop by and say hi. Tired but happy and will report in again tomorrow night if possible.

choprzrul
04-09-2010, 9:12 PM
Oh yeah, stop thread crapping about whether or not you like or dislike FS. I started this thread to report that the family and I were going and to check if any other CGN members would be there. If you want to discuss the merits & shortcomings of FS, please start your own thread.

luchador768
04-09-2010, 9:21 PM
Why Front Sight Vs. a California based school?

Easy, two words;

Drop Mags!

If I took a class here I would be forced to use my featureless or mess with the cursed "bullet button!"

A pretty simple choice to me.

bigkahuna04
04-09-2010, 10:23 PM
I was there yesterday for the 1911 Armorers Course...had a great time. Bob Chavez is a very good instructor. I couldn't stay for any classes this weekend...but I heard that there were expecting 820 students this weekend, and that there would be 3 new handgun and 1 new rifle range opening up this weekend.

I've got a buddy doing the 4-Day Rifle Class with his son this weekend.

Don't get lost in the crowds!

choprzrul
04-11-2010, 8:01 PM
Day 2 and 3 flew by. Time preassure, drawing from concealment, and distance are all taking their toll on my groupings. I am learning a lot and so is my wife and son. We were just too exhausted to stay for the night shoot tonight. Still catching up on doing business and am now getting ready to clean weapons. It seems like sleep is a real premium when attending Front Sight.

MP301
04-11-2010, 8:34 PM
Day 2 and 3 flew by. Time preassure, drawing from concealment, and distance are all taking their toll on my groupings. I am learning a lot and so is my wife and son. We were just too exhausted to stay for the night shoot tonight. Still catching up on doing business and am now getting ready to clean weapons. It seems like sleep is a real premium when attending Front Sight.

Ah, and now for graduation on Monday!

Steve G
04-13-2010, 8:31 AM
So did you graduate or DG the class? :cool:

choprzrul
04-13-2010, 9:27 AM
Neither. Had great shot placement for 3 days, but slow coming out of the holster and getting the thumb safety off. Normally shoot my Beretta 92fs, but I had loaned it to my son for the course and I was shooting my 1911. Well, by day 4 I had figured out how to quickly draw from concealment, get the thumb safety off on the way up, and still have time for 2 shots in under 1.5 seconds. Trouble was, I now had enough time to think about shot placement rather than instinctively doing it like before. Nothing like thinking about something as a way to introduce errors. I went from shooting ragged holes to something resembling a shotgun pattern. I was, however, very pleased that I successfully, and with complete accuracy, was able to clear a type 3 malfunction. I was just a bit long on the time, but I did it right and very quick for me. I have type 1, type 2, tactal reload, and emergency reload down pat. Although I didn't test at DG or graduate level, I feel my skills advanced a tremendous amount. Working on the mechanics of my draw and pointing in will bring me to the required level of proficiency that I seek. More dry practice in the motel room, had time allowed, would have significantly boosted by test score I believe.

Great course, but very tiring. I think that the mental focus required is more tiring than any physical aspect. I would strongly urge anyone thinking of going to plan well in advance (read 5 or 6 months) to make sure you can get reservations in Pahrump. The extra drive time coming and going to Vegas is much better used for sleep time. I was driving both ways from Vegas and cleaning 3 guns each night, so I was feeling pretty drained by day 4.

Ben Stairs, our instructor, was absolutely amazing. The man has been there and done that, and I feel he genuinely enjoys teaching these skills to others. His assistants, Kai (last name?), and Jeff Austin were great also and I can see both of them progressing to where they are leading classes in the future.

I am now going to apply to my local CLEO for a CCW permit, so my next training will be in CA for the CCW requirements. Unless a specific location/course is mandated for the CCW, I will be looking for recommendations for a good course within 3 hours of the Pismo Beach area. Please post or PM questions and comments.

Steve G
04-13-2010, 9:52 AM
Neither. Had great shot placement for 3 days, but slow coming out of the holster and getting the thumb safety off. Normally shoot my Beretta 92fs, but I had loaned it to my son for the course and I was shooting my 1911. Well, by day 4 I had figured out how to quickly draw from concealment, get the thumb safety off on the way up, and still have time for 2 shots in under 1.5 seconds. Trouble was, I now had enough time to think about shot placement rather than instinctively doing it like before. Nothing like thinking about something as a way to introduce errors. I went from shooting ragged holes to something resembling a shotgun pattern. I was, however, very pleased that I successfully, and with complete accuracy, was able to clear a type 3 malfunction. I was just a bit long on the time, but I did it right and very quick for me. I have type 1, type 2, tactal reload, and emergency reload down pat. Although I didn't test at DG or graduate level, I feel my skills advanced a tremendous amount. Working on the mechanics of my draw and pointing in will bring me to the required level of proficiency that I seek. More dry practice in the motel room, had time allowed, would have significantly boosted by test score I believe.

Great course, but very tiring. I think that the mental focus required is more tiring than any physical aspect. I would strongly urge anyone thinking of going to plan well in advance (read 5 or 6 months) to make sure you can get reservations in Pahrump. The extra drive time coming and going to Vegas is much better used for sleep time. I was driving both ways from Vegas and cleaning 3 guns each night, so I was feeling pretty drained by day 4.

Ben Stairs, our instructor, was absolutely amazing. The man has been there and done that, and I feel he genuinely enjoys teaching these skills to others. His assistants, Kai (last name?), and Jeff Austin were great also and I can see both of them progressing to where they are leading classes in the future.

I am now going to apply to my local CLEO for a CCW permit, so my next training will be in CA for the CCW requirements. Unless a specific location/course is mandated for the CCW, I will be looking for recommendations for a good course within 3 hours of the Pismo Beach area. Please post or PM questions and comments.

Great write up! Pretty much spot on about the driving from Vegas thing. I think that's what caught me the most (lack of sleep). Anyway I had a great time also and learned a lot. Day 4 was sooo cold and windy also, had a negative effect drawing from concealment (strong wind at our backs.) Completly exhausted. Time for A LOT more practice then the two day skill builder! Glad you had a great time! :)

tbhracing
04-13-2010, 10:24 AM
I took the 2 day course and had mixed feelings. Some of the Instructors were good, others not so. First day we had a walk on Instructor and, not so good.

Please remember to bring a hat/ball cap. Its mandatory.

I got more from my California PC 832 firearms training than at FS. Also- Too many "yocals" or "almost idiots" with firearms were in my FS class. I was nervous from some of the stuff I saw. We even had a negligent discharge in the group.

Again, mixed feelings. I do HIGHLY suggest going there fully prepared as well- proper firearm, plenty of ammo, holster, HAT, drinks, etc. I also highly suggest leaving the salt, excuses, stories and your 2 cents at home. Come with an open mind, BIG listening ears, the ability to follow directions and no showing off.

Hope this helps.

ZombieTactics
04-13-2010, 10:33 AM
Great write up as noted. I concur about staying in Pahrump vs. Vegas as well ... it's amazing how long that drive to Vegas can seem at the end of the day!

Ben Stairs is the man! I really like his sense of humor and obvious skill as both a shooter and instructor.

tbhracing
04-13-2010, 10:40 AM
Great write up as noted. I concur about staying in Pahrump vs. Vegas as well ... it's amazing how long that drive to Vegas can seem at the end of the day!

I forgot to mention that. Very much stay in Pahrump, not Vegas. Good call.

testosteroneOD
04-13-2010, 12:00 PM
My good friend did the course this weekend also. He liked it a lot. He ended up upgrading to the lifetime membership.

sootytom
04-14-2010, 6:27 AM
well guys and gals I just got home from fs I took my 1st 4day hg class in feb and was overwelmed with the amount of info we had to learn. I worked hard did my homework to bed early,up early,more homework,dry practice before class,tried to stay focused THERE TO LEARN take notes,well to my surprise I graduated my 1st class.
For the last 2 months I've been dry fire pract. twice a day and going to the range 2-3 times a week I do'nt shoot as much ammo as I use to
Well I just returned from my 2nd 4day hg class 4-9 over 800 students largest week ever at fs everthing ran smoothly class size 40 with 3 instructors TOP NOTCH INSTRUCTORS this time is was more fun because I more comfortable with my shooting and I had practiced the crap with the malfunction clearance drill at home so I could concentate on the suttle things,trying to perfecting the draw,sight alignment,sight picture,taking up slack of trigger durning draw,trigger control,surprise trigg break,2nd sight picture.
I shot my $500 crappy old glock the best I've ever shot a handgun this week My goal was to preform better than the 1st time there.the day of or skill test 30+ wind and cloudy I shot great blew a few head shots (forgot surprise trigg break) mashed the trigger,I aced the malfunction clearance test,well I dropped 20 points off mt test score and missed distingished grad. by a few points AMAZING IMPROVEMENT IN 4 DAYS, and I know that if I continue my dry practice I will get better for my next class in may.
SO IF YOU REALLY WANT TO LEARN HOW TO USE YOUR WEAPON GET TO FRONTSIGHT AND TAKE A 4 DAY CLASS and go there ready and willing to learn BE A SPONGE it's not a place to play with your buds stay focused,take notes,to bed early,get there early for dry pract. keep a positive attitude,long days 12+ hours BECOME A 1ST FAMILY MEMBER there are some great deals but you have to keep your eyes out for them I bought a $912 membership a legacy less edge weap and hand/hand combat FRONT SIGHT WILL BE MY VACATION SPOT FOR 2010 AND 2011 forget the river this is more fun

Meaneng
04-14-2010, 9:13 AM
Excellent write-up! Appreciate it.

I'm heading out for my first class (4DDH) there in May, some good hints here to be better prepared...

choprzrul
04-14-2010, 11:03 AM
well guys and gals I just got home from fs I took my 1st 4day hg class in feb and was overwelmed with the amount of info we had to learn. I worked hard did my homework to bed early,up early,more homework,dry practice before class,tried to stay focused THERE TO LEARN take notes,well to my surprise I graduated my 1st class.
For the last 2 months I've been dry fire pract. twice a day and going to the range 2-3 times a week I do'nt shoot as much ammo as I use to
Well I just returned from my 2nd 4day hg class 4-9 over 800 students largest week ever at fs everthing ran smoothly class size 40 with 3 instructors TOP NOTCH INSTRUCTORS this time is was more fun because I more comfortable with my shooting and I had practiced the crap with the malfunction clearance drill at home so I could concentate on the suttle things,trying to perfecting the draw,sight alignment,sight picture,taking up slack of trigger durning draw,trigger control,surprise trigg break,2nd sight picture.
I shot my $500 crappy old glock the best I've ever shot a handgun this week My goal was to preform better than the 1st time there.the day of or skill test 30+ wind and cloudy I shot great blew a few head shots (forgot surprise trigg break) mashed the trigger,I aced the malfunction clearance test,well I dropped 20 points off mt test score and missed distingished grad. by a few points AMAZING IMPROVEMENT IN 4 DAYS, and I know that if I continue my dry practice I will get better for my next class in may.
SO IF YOU REALLY WANT TO LEARN HOW TO USE YOUR WEAPON GET TO FRONTSIGHT AND TAKE A 4 DAY CLASS and go there ready and willing to learn BE A SPONGE it's not a place to play with your buds stay focused,take notes,to bed early,get there early for dry pract. keep a positive attitude,long days 12+ hours BECOME A 1ST FAMILY MEMBER there are some great deals but you have to keep your eyes out for them I bought a $912 membership a legacy less edge weap and hand/hand combat FRONT SIGHT WILL BE MY VACATION SPOT FOR 2010 AND 2011 forget the river this is more fun

Which range were you on?

Pistolwhipped
04-14-2010, 1:27 PM
how much does this run now? i havent checked it in a while.

ZombieTactics
04-14-2010, 1:56 PM
how much does this run now? i havent checked it in a while.
It depends ... a LOT.

For instance there is a deal on 2-day class certificates right now for $100. (regularly $1000)
There was a similar deal awhile back where you could get a 4-day cert for $300. (regularly $2000)

There's a Legacy + Bonus Springfield XD membership now for $2800.

If you are already a member, you get all sorts of deals to get cheap memberships for friends.

Best thing to do is sign up for the email newsletter and grab whatever membership deal that comes along matching your needs.

sootytom
04-14-2010, 8:57 PM
I was shooting on range 8 we had a very good group,alot of returning students we moved thru training pretty fast, we switched from cold range to hot range sat. morning, I shot 1000+ rounds with the extra live fire pract. during the new student lectures. NICE TO BE A RETURNING STUDENT LOTS OF EXTRA PRACTICE. I've got 3 more classes scheduled before they close for summer on july 6th

Falstaff
04-14-2010, 9:48 PM
I too was there last weekend, just got back yesterday. Let me say this to the thread crappers: Every single person in my group of 40 was able able to do things/perform with their pistol in ways they COULD NOT do before the training. I've practiced/hunted with pistols off an on for twenty years, my technique never really improved one bit. After just 4 days, i can make deadly accurate shots from a concealed holster in under 1.5 seconds at ranges from 3 meters to 15 meters, I simply could NOT do this just last week. This was my first time there, I missed DG by just a few points. The qualification live fire test I was only -6 (2 ocular cavity near misses). For those new to FS, the qual. round consists of timed shots from the holster, in concealment!. 3 meter 2 seconds or less, 2 shots to the thoracic cavity (you will hear that term MANY times if you take the class there lol). then 2 shots to the Thor. Cav. at 5, 7 10 and 15- all timed (targets rotate out of view after 1.5 to 2 seconds. Also mixed in their are some untimed head shots, and timed head shots after double taps to the TC. I can't remeber the exact order, but the front sight guys call it a "failure to stop" drill, basically the scenario they lay out is that you must learn to make dedicated head shots if the double taps to the chest don't stop the enemy.



(yes, there were 40 students and 3-4 instructors per range which was a bit tight at times but the people that needed individual attention got it, and anyone who ASKED for 1 on 1 got it too)

I did unfortunately notice that the younger instructors did seem to give the attractive young women a little more attention, but who can blame them?

There was NO high pressure sales tactic, If you went inside the building to eat your lunch, you may have heard an unhurried presentation of their latest membership deal, or a video documentary about FS. It was NOT like a timeshare sales event. Not even close and it is disingenuous for anyone to say that such high pressure tactics are used.

Other tips:

DO not stay in Vegas, unless you enjoy 14-16 hour days (12 hours at FS, 1.5 to 2 hours driving).

I brought my toyhauler and stayed at Saddlewest, it was only $15.00 a day for full hookups and free buffet every day. It did cost me $350 in diesel fuel to take it down there from N. CA but a room for 5 nights woulda cost that, plus it was a lot nicer to kick back in the trailer as opposed to the smoke filled casino hotels...Next time I'll dry camp at the FS entrance.

powaybob
04-15-2010, 5:44 AM
Falstaff, sootytom:

Sounds like you both had good experiences and that you both shoot better than I do! I really recommend the two day skills builder- it is like the 4 day without the lectures. There is a lot more practice and shooting, and a lot of tips and drills you do not get in the 4-day. If you were that close to DG, the two day can get you there. I consider my graduate scor about a B or B- in the scheme of things, and probably the best I can do with my age, lack of experience, and mediocre eyesight. It sounds like DG is within your grasp though.

Rudolf the Red
04-15-2010, 10:29 AM
What are the ammo requirements at FS?

revolution_17
04-15-2010, 11:16 AM
What are the ammo requirements at FS?

direct from FS website:
http://www.frontsight.com/FirearmTraining/front-sight.asp?Letter=J

Front Sight requires factory-new ammunition with full-metal jacket bullets. Hollow points are acceptable. Blaser aluminum cased ammunition is acceptable.

Not permitted are:

* Hand reloads
* Factory reloads
* "Remanufactured" ammunition
* Lead bullets
* Copper "washed" bullets (as opposed to copper jacketed bullets)
* Steel jacketed bullets
* Armor-piercing bullets (core of steel or other hardened material)
* Tracers or other incendiary ammunition

Specific brands which are not permitted:

* American Ammunition made in Miami, Florida. American Ammunition uses copper washed bullets instead of copper jacketed bullets. American Ammunition is not to be confused with American Eagle ammunition made by Federal Cartridge Corporation. American Eagle ammunition is acceptable.
* Sellier and Bellot (S&B) rifle ammunition. S&B uses steel jacketed bullets which cause damage to steel targets. S&B handgun and shotgun ammunition are acceptable.

Falstaff
04-15-2010, 9:56 PM
BTW I picked up over 3000 once fired brass in 9mm 40 and 45 by waiting around after class and scavenging just 3 of the dozen ranges after class...Woulda got more if i had some 5 gallon buckets in my truck. Next time Ima bring a shovel! (yes, there's that much brass layin' around, not to mention HUNDreds of unfired rounds layin' about in the gravel- some old, some brand new.