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View Full Version : AR gas piston which one to get.


ttboy
05-17-2009, 5:20 PM
I own a Stag upper on a Stag lower M4 carbine after reading that AR gas pistons are more reliable and the new Ruger black rifle is a gas piston I'm looking seriously at gas piston AR uppers. What are the quality brands to look for in AR gas piston uppers? What type of a price tag am I looking at. Thanks in advance.

GMONEY
05-17-2009, 5:26 PM
LMT makes a nice one although you will get different opinions on reliability with gas piston vs di

Addax
05-17-2009, 5:26 PM
Hello ttboy,

Are you looking for a dedicated built AR Gas Piston Upper or to retrofit your current Stag upper?

We do both utilizing the current PWS Gas Piston System:

Addax Dedicated Gas Piston Uppers:
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=137

Addax Retrofit:
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=123

We have a new GPU called the ATAC that we are going to release very soon, and it incorporates a new gas piston system design we worked on with PWS.

We are a quality driven custom shop, and there are many satisfied Addax Gas Piston Upper and Retrofit Customers.

Hope this helps.

Chris

Nessal
05-17-2009, 5:33 PM
PWS all the way.

dfletcher
05-17-2009, 5:41 PM
I installed this version, pretty easy to do. Worked fine yesterday, until the screws holding on the bolt key to the carrier sheared off at about shot 100. I don't know if this is a simple issue of poor quality screws being used or a shortcoming of the system's design. I know other systems use a new carrier with the "key" as part of it, might be worth the extra $$$.

Addax
05-17-2009, 6:24 PM
I installed this version, pretty easy to do. Worked fine yesterday, until the screws holding on the bolt key to the carrier sheared off at about shot 100. I don't know if this is a simple issue of poor quality screws being used or a shortcoming of the system's design. I know other systems use a new carrier with the "key" as part of it, might be worth the extra $$$.

Are you talking about PWS's piston system?

If you are, then how did you purchase one and install it yourself?

These systems can only be purchased by a Certified Installer, and it needs to be installed by a Certified Installer with the correct tools and know how.

Josh3239
05-17-2009, 8:36 PM
I own a Stag upper on a Stag lower M4 carbine after reading that AR gas pistons are more reliable and the new Ruger black rifle is a gas piston I'm looking seriously at gas piston AR uppers. What are the quality brands to look for in AR gas piston uppers? What type of a price tag am I looking at. Thanks in advance.

The current DI system is reliable enought for 99% of AR owners and the military.

Aftermath686
05-17-2009, 9:05 PM
Just because we use them in the military dosn't mean there ****ing great. Lowest bidder gents...

Addax
05-17-2009, 9:07 PM
The current DI system is reliable enought for 99% of AR owners and the military.

The Military is looking again at an M4 replacement that is more reliable than the current DI M4.

The Military is going to eventually replace the DI Gas Driven M4's eventually and most likely with either a Piston Driven or Hybrid Piston Driven weapon.

For most civilian shooters, the DI gas system is fine, but more and more civilian shooters and AR owners are seeking a cleaner, cooler operating AR, that does not require much maintenance as a DI AR does.
Well designed, high quality piston driven AR or AR Upper gives the Civilian shooter/AR owner the option of having this, like our Addax GPU's.



It is an on going debate etc. but I

BillyGoatMachine
05-17-2009, 9:31 PM
I have both the LMT MRP piston and the LWRC M6A2 piston rifles. They are both great guns and function perfectly. I'm partial to my M6A2 for some unknown reason. I've also heard great things about Addax, but I've never used one. I'm sure it's awonderful product as well. Your going to have to spend between $1400-$1900 for a quality piston upper these days.

lehn20
05-17-2009, 9:35 PM
LWRCi. PWS. HK416

mikecro1
05-17-2009, 9:43 PM
irvington Arms in Fremont (Bay Area) offers the PWS system...They are also a great bunch of guys to deal with who know their product!

They installed my PWS system and I have shot over +3000 rds with no hiccups what so ever!

Aftermath686
05-17-2009, 10:05 PM
irvington Arms in Fremont (Bay Area) offers the PWS system...They are also a great bunch of guys to deal with who know their product!

They installed my PWS system and I have shot over +3000 rds with no hiccups what so ever!

Thats nice to hear, I am planning on putting one together with Addax pretty soon.



BTW Chris You have a PM from me I sent on Friday.

Addax
05-17-2009, 10:37 PM
Thats nice to hear, I am planning on putting one together with Addax pretty soon.



BTW Chris You have a PM from me I sent on Friday.

Got it. :thumbsup:

dfletcher
05-17-2009, 10:39 PM
Are you talking about PWS's piston system?

If you are, then how did you purchase one and install it yourself?

These systems can only be purchased by a Certified Installer, and it needs to be installed by a Certified Installer with the correct tools and know how.


Oops - I knew I forgot something, like the link: http://www.rcmgunparts.com/catalog_ar-parts.html

Made by a company called TNW - never heard of them before.

vf111
05-17-2009, 10:48 PM
I've been thinking about building my next upper w/ a GPU just for grins and was wondering myself which sysrem to go with. It sounds like the PWS from Addax is a good one but it's a non-DIY system (a deal breaker for me) - what about the CMMG, Ares and Osprey?

Addax
05-17-2009, 10:59 PM
Oops - I knew I forgot something, like the link: http://www.rcmgunparts.com/catalog_ar-parts.html

Made by a company called TNW - never heard of them before.

Ah, yeah, we have heard some pretty interesting stories about that system from several of our new customers who tried it.

Thanks for the heads up, and too bad you had a bad experience.

Maybe it was a set of bad screws, maybe it was something with the design?

Addax
05-17-2009, 11:06 PM
I've been thinking about building my next upper w/ a GPU just for grins and was wondering myself which sysrem to go with. It sounds like the PWS from Addax is a good one but it's a non-DIY system (a deal breaker for me) - what about the CMMG, Ares and Osprey?

Why a deal breaker? DIY is not always the best way to go...

Just my advice from experience and our customers experience and feedback, don't go for the lower cost do it yourself systems, in the end or long term, you get what you paid for, and there are quite a few dissatisfied folks out there who went the Do it yourself route.

At least with us, you know the system is installed and aligned properly.
We also make sure the piston system is timed properly. We test fire and clean your upper before shipping it back to you.

ERdept
05-18-2009, 3:44 AM
I don't know about other gas piston systems, but at the J&J armory when I compared the POF vs the LWRC.


I found that the LWRC was less bulky in the forearm area and it seemed to swing faster.

I got the LWRC and am very happy with it.

At Angeles shooting range, I tried a variety of ammo including reloads and nothing failed to fire. Total of 500 rounds in one session.

Weapon in total.....

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww197/ERdept/1129081122_0001-3.jpg


Outer rail covering LWRC gas piston with two screws that you turn to remove the rail......

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww197/ERdept/0518090445.jpg

ERdept
05-18-2009, 3:58 AM
The piston intact as installed........

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww197/ERdept/downsized_0518090448.jpg

Removal of the piston parts via compression of the spring pulling back toward the bolt......

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww197/ERdept/downsized_0518090449.jpg

The gas piston parts removed for cleaning with wipe down and light coat of EEZOX........

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww197/ERdept/downsized_0518090452.jpg

X-NewYawker
05-18-2009, 5:47 AM
I have an LMT GP and Addax GPU. Addax is the softest shooting, cleanest shooting upper I've ever had.

Call Chris at Addax to retro fit your upper (he's probably not gonna do this much longer with his new system coming out) and ignore the Piston haters.
There mommas didn't give them enuf lovin'

dfletcher
05-18-2009, 7:37 AM
Ah, yeah, we have heard some pretty interesting stories about that system from several of our new customers who tried it.

Thanks for the heads up, and too bad you had a bad experience.

Maybe it was a set of bad screws, maybe it was something with the design?

What has been the general experience with this unit? If the issue is substandard screws, well I suppose that can be corrected. But if there is an inherent flaw in the system I'd just as soon move on to something else.

This first gun was a bit of a test to see if the system worked well enough for others in our little group to switch over a few of our ARs. So we've put things on hold pending addressing this issue.

Addax
05-18-2009, 10:17 AM
What has been the general experience with this unit? If the issue is substandard screws, well I suppose that can be corrected. But if there is an inherent flaw in the system I'd just as soon move on to something else.

This first gun was a bit of a test to see if the system worked well enough for others in our little group to switch over a few of our ARs. So we've put things on hold pending addressing this issue.

PM sent.

PatriotnMore
05-18-2009, 10:25 AM
PM sent.

I am sure that you are trying to avoid negative press on the competition but, I would be interested to hear what the pros and cons are for the mentioned piston, based on your experience?
If the screw shearing is a problem, can it not be corrected with a different material screw set?

THE 0NE
05-18-2009, 1:11 PM
PWS all they way dont cheat your self call addax right away.

norcal-ar
05-18-2009, 4:23 PM
PWS!

B Strong
05-18-2009, 4:32 PM
I don't beieve that the gas piston upper is a must have item, but I'd go with Addax - good reputation, Calguns advertiser.

How could you go wrong?

Stockton
05-18-2009, 4:54 PM
Addax-PWS. Buy with confidence!

HkUSP45
05-18-2009, 5:01 PM
+1 for Addax. My Diablo is awsome.

glockwise2000
05-18-2009, 5:40 PM
Oops - I knew I forgot something, like the link: http://www.rcmgunparts.com/catalog_ar-parts.html

Made by a company called TNW - never heard of them before.

I heard bad things about the TNW system. They still ended up with the PWS system though.

glockwise2000
05-18-2009, 5:41 PM
I have an LMT GP and Addax GPU. Addax is the softest shooting, cleanest shooting upper I've ever had.

Call Chris at Addax to retro fit your upper (he's probably not gonna do this much longer with his new system coming out) and ignore the Piston haters.
There mommas didn't give them enuf lovin'

What is the new system?

818gtiguy
05-18-2009, 5:44 PM
What is the new system?

Where have you been???..It is a completely redesigned system....its more MIL spec..http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=185144

Ishoot
05-18-2009, 5:53 PM
The piston intact as installed........

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww197/ERdept/downsized_0518090448.jpg

Removal of the piston parts via compression of the spring pulling back toward the bolt......

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww197/ERdept/downsized_0518090449.jpg

The gas piston parts removed for cleaning with wipe down and light coat of EEZOX........

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww197/ERdept/downsized_0518090452.jpg

Cool thanks for the pics. I have the POF 415 upper and was wondering how the LWRC stacked up against. I think the LWRC is great but I like the way the POF strips better. :)

fliparch
05-18-2009, 6:47 PM
LWRC M6A2

818gtiguy
05-18-2009, 6:58 PM
Just wait for the NEW PWS system coming out.....Thats the way to go...

badicedog
05-18-2009, 8:14 PM
Just to give you another option... Cohaire arms and Titan Defense are soon to release the HK 416 clone. Cohaire is selling the complete rifle called the CA 415 $1800 price range and Titan defense is selling the upper with BCG and tungsten buffer for $1,250 or so. I compared the parts to my HK 416 and I was very impressed! Both weapon systems obviously don't have the German HK barrel but it's an exact copy of the Hk 416.

http://www.hk-54.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=1557

Jel
05-18-2009, 9:24 PM
For you budget minded folk, CMMG has a complete GP rifle for MSRP $999.95. From what I've seen, online prices are around $1200-$1300.

http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?cart=1680893&cat=82&

Addax
05-18-2009, 11:06 PM
Just wait for the NEW PWS system coming out.....Thats the way to go...

Yup, it is an excellent long stroke piston system, simple, robust, yet refined, and smooth.

We like to call it an AK on top of an AR.:thumbsup:

Only one moving part, the piston, which is directly connected to the op-rod and bolt carrier.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/DC16_L_1.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0018-1.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0036-1.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0023.jpg

Q
05-18-2009, 11:25 PM
Piston uppers I want.:drool5:
ares shrike
titan ca415
hk d10rs
pws diablo
lwrc m6a2


Found some videos of the diablo in this WTS thread.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=183670&highlight=diablo

h034rteEsLE

ifjYbkWEkTw

:43:

Addax
05-19-2009, 1:11 AM
I was there with PWS taping the the second video..:thumbsup:

Piston uppers I want.:drool5:
ares shrike
titan ca415
hk d10rs
pws diablo
lwrc m6a2


Found some videos of the diablo in this WTS thread.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=183670&highlight=diablo

Arteel
05-19-2009, 1:27 AM
That Diablo seemed like it didn't have any recoil on FA :eek:

Very nice, definitely on my wish list. :thumbsup:

Addax
05-19-2009, 2:14 AM
That Diablo seemed like it didn't have any recoil on FA :eek:

Very nice, definitely on my wish list. :thumbsup:

Here is a pic of when I tested a Diablo Prototype with PWS last year.

The top one is our current 10.5" Combat Carbine GPU, and the bottom one is one of the Diablo prototypes.

The Diablo does not recoil as hard as you might expect from such a short 7" system. It was very controllable when we shot it in full auto.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0152.jpg

818gtiguy
05-19-2009, 2:25 AM
Very nice pic Chris! I LOVE my Diablo..Very dependable and accurate for a 7.5ยดยด shorty.

badicedog
05-19-2009, 4:51 AM
I would have to agree, my Diablo is top notch! The only thing missing is the ability to SBR it here in CA. One can only wish...