PDA

View Full Version : My scope rings are scratching my scope!


RogueSniper
02-15-2009, 12:20 PM
I found some burrs on my Ruger Rings.

Is there a product out there that's thin enough to:
1. protect my scope
2. not to interfere with my scope alignment
3. not so spongy to make my scope bounce and possible damage my glass
4. and prevent my rings from scratching the hell out of my scope?

I thought about thin rubber or latex inserts but that might start to melt and/or be too bouncy.

I thought maybe moleskin, like the type you put on your heels to prevent blister but it's not very durable.

I thought maybe taking my Dremel and start polishing but will I take off too much metal and lose my ring-to-scope contact?

I have a Ruger Ranch Rifle with Ruger Rings. Those rings are scratching the crap out of my scope. Okay, my scope isn't the best - Bushnell Banner Dusk & Dawn 3-9 x 40mm - but if I change scopes, the rings will wreak havoc on my poor scope. I just bought a Konuspro M30 and I don't want to scratch this one up.

The final solution would be to take it to the shop. Well, guess who scratched up the scope in the first place??? The shop isn't in business anymore. It was that gun store in Mountain View on Castro Street then moved to El Camino Real. I can't remember their name.

I suppose I could always send the rings back to Ruger for a replacement.

Thoughts?

PolishMike
02-15-2009, 12:23 PM
Pics?

Its normal to get some wear on the scope. If you don't want to scratch your stuff dont take it out of the package. If you use your guns things will get scratched.

bohoki
02-15-2009, 1:04 PM
how about electrical tape just enough to cover the inside of the ring?

PolishMike
02-15-2009, 1:08 PM
how about electrical tape just enough to cover the inside of the ring?

You don't want to do that as it may allow to scope to move around.

Like I said, a solid scope with a scratch on it is much more useful than a clean scope that moves around.

MAX100
02-15-2009, 1:18 PM
Lap the rings and that should take care of it, if done right.


GC

armygunsmith
02-15-2009, 1:49 PM
I agree. Lapping the rings is your best option.

chickenfried
02-15-2009, 1:54 PM
Burris signature zee rings

http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1433308/900077.htm

tlillard23
02-15-2009, 2:10 PM
I don't know anything about scopes. But from what I have read... It's normally the user that screws up the installation. Every thing I read says to use a torque wrench to install rings, and most scratches are caused from over torque.

I have only installed 3 scopes, they seem to work....

RogueSniper
02-15-2009, 2:12 PM
That's true.

The scope holds a solid zero but I'm changing the scope to a Konuspro M30. I don't want to see my new scope scarred to hell. I'll take some pics of the scope rings and the burrs. The burrs are on the outer edge.

I thought about the electrical tape, but it's the same as putting a piece of rubber in the ring, too much play.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3416/3282180095_d7114e038d.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3352/3283001246_071013d0f0.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/3283079640_cf968e2083.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3307/3283079652_c67e111dc6.jpg?v=0

Fjold
02-15-2009, 2:21 PM
Go to Brownells or Midway and look under Gunsmithing tools for Wheeler Engineering scope ring lapping tool or get the Burris Zee rings with the inserts.

RogueSniper
02-15-2009, 2:33 PM
So that's what lapping is. I never knew what that meant. So, I'm basically sanding down the machined and rough spots on the rings.

http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/highres/227261.jpg

That's the solution I was looking for. Why didn't the shop that installed my rings and scope do that in the first place? That's some pi$$ poor service. Well, the scope only cost me $100, and the only damage to the scope is cosmetic. As least it didn't warp, dent, or break my scope. I'll count myself lucky this time.

RobG
02-15-2009, 2:55 PM
So that's what lapping is. I never knew what that meant. So, I'm basically sanding down the machined and rough spots on the rings.

http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/highres/227261.jpg

That's the solution I was looking for. Why didn't the shop that installed my rings and scope do that in the first place? That's some pi$$ poor service. Well, the scope only cost me $100, and the only damage to the scope is cosmetic. As least it didn't warp, dent, or break my scope. I'll count myself lucky this time.

First, those rings are cheap. Any quality ring will need minimal lapping if any. Second, did you ask the shop to lap them? Most people either do not lap or have never heard of it, just like you prior to this post. That and many do not care if the tube gets marred up a bit under the rings. If you want to keep those rings, just lap them. Its quick and easy. And lappers are easy to resell if you think you may never use it again. Or rent if out for a 6 pack:thumbsup:

Kiba
02-15-2009, 4:18 PM
Yep, lightly stone/deburr the edges if they are rough, then lap the rings and use a proper torque wrench for the saddle screws (15 in-lb usually.) If you do this and use care when installing the scope shouldn't have a mark on it when you remove it later.

Even some of my expensive Badger "needs no lapping" rings were not perfectly round and needed a touch of lapping; granted nowhere near as much lapping as some Ruger rings I just installed for a friend which were nowhere near round and took almost half an hour of lapping to achieve 75% contact or so. Those were the worst rings I have ever had the pleasure (ugh) of installing.

As mentioned, Burris Signature Zee rings have plastic non-marring inserts between the rings and the scope tube.

RogueSniper
02-15-2009, 5:21 PM
I had no inkling of scopes or what it entailed. Yeah, Ruger Rings are a joke. When I got my Ranch, it didn't come with rings and my shop just gave them to me. That should have been my first clue that those rings - SUCKED!!!

I was just checking Optics Planet. Burris has a Burris Ruger to Weaver adapter for the Ruger Ranch then I can just get the Burris Zee or Tactical Rings. I need a set for my ARMS #18 mount, too.

Any difference between the Zee and the Tactical? Besides the obvious - Weaver (Zee) vs Picatinny (Tac) and Tac looks like a truck could run over it and it wouldn't budge.

Weaver or Picatinny. I know a Weaver mount will fit a Picatinny base, but a Picatinny mount (if Mil-Spec) will not fit a Weaver base.

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/opticsplanet_2040_1553097774http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/opticsplanet_2040_942710794http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/opticsplanet_2037_291484437

Or, save some money and headache and just rent someone's lappers ...

Okay, who wants a six-pack for their scope lapping kit?
(this is a better use of electrical tape:thumbsup:)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/3283503330_538866e822.jpg?v=0http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3418/3282682727_483aa8ac4d.jpg?v=0

maxicon
02-15-2009, 5:21 PM
Tape won't cause a problem if the rings are tight enough, but lapping is the real fix. Just be sure not to take them down too far, or they won't grip. It takes a pretty good bit of lapping to get that far, but some people get carried away...

I don't lap rings, personally, though if they had a burr on the edge like you show, I'd sand it down. I don't see a lot of scratching on my scopes, but I'm also not super picky about keeping my gear pristine, so a little bit of ring scuffing doesn't matter to me.

Ruger rings aren't junk, but those look like they got banged around in a parts box. They're not top grade rings, but they're good mid-range gear. I thought the Ranch Rifle came with rings - was this new or used?

As for Weaver vs Picatinny, there's no spec for what goes into the slot, only for the Picatinny slot itself (there's no spec for the Weaver slot). As a result, much gear is made to work with either, and you won't know if it won't fit unless you try. It's rare to find non AR gear that won't work with Weaver rails, and even a lot of that (like Eotechs) will. Anything that's got a Picatinny size recoil lug, like ARMS or LaRue gear, won't fit on some Weaver rails.

The Burris XTR rings will work fine in most Weaver rails, though some Weaver slots are round rather than square bottom, and that can cause fit problems on some gear...

Fjold
02-15-2009, 5:25 PM
Do not over lap them. You just want to take down any high spots, you don't want to lap the whole surface smooth because you will open the diameter too much to hold the scope securely.

Take a sharp half round file to the burrs that you can feel with your fingernails and just lap enough to where you don't feel any raised metal. Do not try to get all the small grooves out of the rings.

RogueSniper
02-15-2009, 5:34 PM
My scope doesn't just have rings. There are some 1/2 inch long scratches on the body. You don't notice it when shooting. But when I remove the rings for cleaning then I see them. Ugh. I took a Black Sharpie and colored in the scratches. It's pretty bad. I just put the Bushnell on my Ruger 10/22. At least that one has a Dednutz mount and it's smooth and clean.

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/opticsplanet_2040_1585430518

maxicon
02-16-2009, 9:41 AM
How do you like that Dednutz mount? I've just started hearing things about them recently.

RogueSniper
02-16-2009, 11:29 AM
Dednutz mount is a very clean, anodized aluminum setup. That thing is solid but very light. The only problem was getting the set screws in. The two front screws lined up perfectly but the forward-rear screw was a little off. I went slow, and backed off to check for cross threading. I had to loosen the other and play with it a little before it settled in. I could be the rifle. The 10/22 is one of the older, ones. I think 1970s.

I have my Bushell set up on my Ruger 10/22 DSP (Sporter). I'm planning on shooting it tomorrow (Tuesday) at Jackson Arms in South SF. What I like about it: one piece. I thought about getting the mount and scope rings separately but that tosses in too many variables and manufacturers. If I went that route, then I could have always removed the rings and left the mount if I wanted to change the scope setup, ie. red dot. Why bother? I don't believe I'd ever do that.

I have the 1" rings with Medium height installed. My Bushnell, with Butler Creek flip covers clears the barrel and sights by almost a 1/8". I'll have to re-zero the scope, but it'll be fun. I've got plenty of loaded Ruger magazines ready to go.

bohoki
02-16-2009, 1:17 PM
looks like those rings just need a deburring

RogueSniper
02-17-2009, 11:56 AM
Ruger rings aren't junk, but those look like they got banged around in a parts box. They're not top grade rings, but they're good mid-range gear. I thought the Ranch Rifle came with rings - was this new or used?

As for Weaver vs Picatinny, there's no spec for what goes into the slot, only for the Picatinny slot itself (there's no spec for the Weaver slot). As a result, much gear is made to work with either, and you won't know if it won't fit unless you try. It's rare to find non AR gear that won't work with Weaver rails, and even a lot of that (like Eotechs) will. Anything that's got a Picatinny size recoil lug, like ARMS or LaRue gear, won't fit on some Weaver rails.

The Burris XTR rings will work fine in most Weaver rails, though some Weaver slots are round rather than square bottom, and that can cause fit problems on some gear...

Rifle was used - CA prison rifle with short barrel, welded flash hider, factory folder - no rings. The rings were new in the package. I never thought to inspect them - but that was back in the 1990s - I lacked proper scope knowledge.

I'll need to determine if I want to upgrade my mount and rings. I'll try the half file carefully to deburr the raised area IF I can't find someone to lend/rent me their lapping set up. I'll check one of my gun buddies, he's got scoped long guns, he might have one.

maxicon
02-17-2009, 1:23 PM
Yeah, the Ruger rings are a one-trick pony, but if you're not going to be swapping optics much, they should be fine. If you'll be swapping optics much, a Picatinny rail is a good investment.

The good thing about the lapping kits is the pointed alignment rods that show how badly misaligned your rings are or aren't, but there's not much need for those unless you do a lot of scopes. You can check with less precision with any pair of rods clamped in the two rings - wooden dowels, aluminum rods, whatever. As long as there are 2 flat surfaces to line up, you'll see if you're very far out or not.

Likewise, any 1" copper, steel, or aluminum rod or tube works fine for lapping - you can do it yourself with any lapping or grinding compound (valve grinding compound will work). At the cheapest and easiest end, a 1" wooden dowel wrapped with fine sandpaper will do the job. It's not as easy to find 30mm forms, but 1" is pretty flexible.

Here's the wooden dowel method, from Ken Marsh's scopes pages:
http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh/mounts.html#mount

RogueSniper
02-18-2009, 11:39 AM
I think I might have a big brass rod in the garage. I don't know where the hell I got it, don't ask. But thanks for the suggestion and the link. I'll try that this weekend.

BTW, those Dednuts mount/rings were great. I sighted in my scope at Jackson Arms last night. The only stupid thing I forgot ... loktite on the screws. :eek:

It's still a little off but I'll fine tune it this week, if it'll stop raining!!!

bruce_ventura
02-18-2009, 8:57 PM
I’ve been mounting and testing scopes for about a year. I developed a technique for preventing scratches that works very well. First, I lightly lap the rings - just enough to insure no large burs and get ~50% of the surface area lapped. Then I stick 1 mil Kapton tape on the inside of the rings and trim off the excess with a razor blade. Kapton tape is very tough and has a high silicone temp adhesive that doesn’t dry out or age. The tape is thick enough to protect the scope, but thin enough not to cause the rings to bind on the scope. Then I assemble the rings as usual, using a torque wrench. I've tried a variety of rings and they all seem to work fine when using this technique.

Problem is: I have ~$100 invested in Kapton tape and a ring lapping kit – likely too pricey for most people.