PDA

View Full Version : LEO wants to sell non-roster pistol + hicap mag question


eltee
01-30-2009, 7:31 AM
If a cop buys an off-roster pistol (which is IDENTICAL to an on-roster pistol except for addition of factory laser grips and some other cosmetic differences) that he decides he doesn't like, can it be sold to a civilian or just to other LEO's? If he CAN sell it to a civilian, how long must he keep it before it can be sold?

If a cop acquires (bought or dept. issued) hicap magazines marked LEO, etc. after the ban but during his career, can he keep them? These would be for both pistols and semiauto/auto rifles.

Last question. If he has a handgun with a threaded barrel, does he have to take the barrel off or send it out of state once he becomes an ex-cop?

He was told by the dept. he can keep the hicaps and barrel, but the source was a range guy and may not be fully knowlegeable about the legal issues. I searched but was not too successful. Thank you for any info.

sorensen440
01-30-2009, 7:35 AM
If a cop buys an off-roster pistol (which is IDENTICAL to an on-roster pistol except for addition of factory laser grips and some other cosmetic differences) that he decides he doesn't like, can it be sold to a civilian or just to other LEO's? If he CAN sell it to a civilian, how long must he keep it before it can be sold?
He can sell it to a civilian the same day he buys it if he wants
If a cop acquires (bought or dept. issued) hicap magazines marked LEO, etc. after the ban but during his career, can he keep them? These would be for both pistols and semiauto/auto rifles.
He can keep the mags or sell them as parts
Last question. If he has a handgun with a threaded barrel, does he have to take the barrel off or send it out of state once he becomes an ex-cop?
I cant help you with this one but someone should be able to chime in
He was told by the dept. he can keep the hicaps and barrel, but the source was a range guy and may not be fully knowlegeable about the legal issues. I searched but was not too successful. Thank you for any info.
Bold

asheron2
01-30-2009, 7:36 AM
California Penal Code Section 12131.5
(a) A firearm shall be deemed to satisfy the requirements
of subdivision (a) of Section 12131 if another firearm made by the
same manufacturer is already listed and the unlisted firearm differs
from the listed firearm only in one or more of the following
features:
(1) Finish, including, but not limited to, bluing, chrome-plating,
oiling, or engraving.
(2) The material from which the grips are made.
(3) The shape or texture of the grips, so long as the difference
in grip shape or texture does not in any way alter the dimensions,
material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel,
the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the
firearm.
(4) Any other purely cosmetic feature that does not in any way
alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the
magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of
the firing mechanism of the firearm.

Have him disassemble the mags and give them to you as rebuild kits.

For the barrel, just have him disassemble it and give you the barrel seperately.

sorensen440
01-30-2009, 7:39 AM
For the barrel, just have him disassemble it and give you the barrel seperately.
But don't install it in this state

asheron2
01-30-2009, 7:41 AM
But don't install it in this state

+1 shoulda said that:thumbsup:

But it hold onto it or sell it for some dough

Max-the-Silent
01-30-2009, 7:46 AM
If a cop buys an off-roster pistol (which is IDENTICAL to an on-roster pistol except for addition of factory laser grips and some other cosmetic differences) that he decides he doesn't like, can it be sold to a civilian or just to other LEO's? If he CAN sell it to a civilian, how long must he keep it before it can be sold?

The pistol can be sold to a civilian as a PPT. The time frame most often quoted for ownership before sale is one year, but imo if the officer can articulate a reasonable case for selling the pistol that would pass the sniff test he's gtg - just as long as he isn't selling off twenty such pistols a month...

If a cop acquires (bought or dept. issued) hicap magazines marked LEO, etc. after the ban but during his career, can he keep them? These would be for both pistols and semiauto/auto rifles.

Departmental policy varies, some would allow, some wouldn't.

Last question. If he has a handgun with a threaded barrel, does he have to take the barrel off or send it out of state once he becomes an ex-cop?

A pistol with a threaded barrel would have to have been registered in the last round of AW registration. If it was departmental issue for some reason or other, it would be department property. An individual or officer in possession of a threaded barrel could remove it from the piece and be in the clear.

He was told by the dept. he can keep the hicaps and barrel, but the source was a range guy and may not be fully knowlegeable about the legal issues. I searched but was not too successful. Thank you for any info.

If the officer is worried, he should ask for clarification in writing from the department administration.

sorensen440
01-30-2009, 8:16 AM
On the threaded barrel. Can't the owner also remove the threads or install a permanent thread protector? I read on some other thread that even putting locktite on the thread protector satisfies DOJ. I believe Walther was doing this with their barrels and supplying a DOJ letter to their customers on retrofits, but I heard this third party so I don't know.
Ive heard that a couple times but it smells fishy to me

eltee
01-30-2009, 11:41 AM
THANKS for all the info! I'll pass it on to the deputy sheriff involved. He was a cop who worked in my dept., then became a deputy so our policies differed.

rbgaynor
01-30-2009, 3:34 PM
If a cop buys an off-roster pistol (which is IDENTICAL to an on-roster pistol except for addition of factory laser grips and some other cosmetic differences) that he decides he doesn't like, can it be sold to a civilian or just to other LEO's? If he CAN sell it to a civilian, how long must he keep it before it can be sold?

The pistol can be sold to a civilian as a PPT. The time frame most often quoted for ownership before sale is one year, but imo if the officer can articulate a reasonable case for selling the pistol that would pass the sniff test he's gtg - just as long as he isn't selling off twenty such pistols a month...


What sniff test? The officer is legally free to transfer it the day he takes possession - provided the recipient is not a prohibited person. The only thing the officer needs to worry about is, as you said, doing it so often that it could be interpreted as running a business.

Shane916
01-30-2009, 3:39 PM
The pistol can be sold to a civilian as a PPT. The time frame most often quoted for ownership before sale is one year, but imo if the officer can articulate a reasonable case for selling the pistol that would pass the sniff test he's gtg - just as long as he isn't selling off twenty such pistols a month...



5 handgun transactions per year to be exact.

Max-the-Silent
01-30-2009, 4:56 PM
What sniff test? The officer is legally free to transfer it the day he takes possession - provided the recipient is not a prohibited person. The only thing the officer needs to worry about is, as you said, doing it so often that it could be interpreted as running a business.

Here's the deal.

If you're a LEO, there are a few things that civilians can do that may well cause you difficulty with your superiors. A civilian can get a pistol out of the waiting period on Friday, decide to sell it on Monday, and as long as he goes through the process to sell the piece legally (and he isn't selling twenty a year...) nobody cares.

In some departments, if an officer sold a handgun, rostered or not, to a civilian through a lawful PPT, certain individuals in that department would be inclined to ask questions if they were aware of it.

Let me put it this way - say an officer puts up a firearm for sale on this site, and a certain someone took an interest in the transaction. In certain departments that officer would be on the receiving end of some pointed questions. The officer hasn't done one thing wrong legally, but certain individuals in certain departments do not like civilian firearms ownership, and they most certainly do not approve of officers selling firearms to civilians.

I'm not speaking hypothetically here.

I'm lucky in that it's not an issue in my department at this time, but it has been in the past and it could well be that way in the future as well.

IGOTDIRT4U
01-30-2009, 5:00 PM
5 handgun transactions per year to be exact.


Got a source for that? That might a dept policy, but it's not written into the law AFAIK.

Fire in the Hole
01-30-2009, 5:07 PM
As far as retired LEO's and High Cap mags goes. I chedcked with CA DOJ when I retired. I bought my service pistol. Turned in my two issued 12 round mags, and was issued a 10 round mag when I separated. What a pant load. During my career I had purchased ten 12 round mags for this pistol. DOJ informed me that the law works in the negatative. That is, everything is legal except where a statute states it's illegal. Since there is no statute that addresses this issue, I'm good to go with as many 12 or higher mags as I want. I have a 33 round magazine for my Glock 27 for instance. I love showing up at the range with it in the holster. I get a lot of double takes.

sorensen440
01-30-2009, 5:09 PM
Got a source for that? That might a dept policy, but it's not written into the law AFAIK.
Here ya go
12070. (a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued a license pursuant to Section 12071. Any person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not include any of the following: (4) The infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms.
(c)(1) As used in this section, "infrequent" means:
(A) For pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, less than six transactions per calendar year. For this purpose, "transaction" means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person.
(B) For firearms other than pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, occasional and without regularity.

IGOTDIRT4U
01-30-2009, 5:27 PM
Here ya go

Wow. Thanks. I guess I usually stop reading PC at 12025 and 12031!

sorensen440
01-30-2009, 5:35 PM
Got a source for that? That might a dept policy, but it's not written into the law AFAIK.

Wow. Thanks. I guess I usually stop reading PC at 12025 and 12031!
I was unaware also until recently there was a thread about it.

liftman
01-30-2009, 8:12 PM
Now, what about a PPT, again officer to civillian, of a off roster ( i.e. Judge) that has no other weapon "like" it? I assume that would be a no go?

ke6guj
01-30-2009, 8:15 PM
Taurus Judges are considered Short Barreled Shotguns in CA, NO GO!!

pnkssbtz
01-30-2009, 9:09 PM
The pistol can be sold to a civilian as a PPT. The time frame most often quoted for ownership before sale is one year, but imo if the officer can articulate a reasonable case for selling the pistol that would pass the sniff test he's gtg - just as long as he isn't selling off twenty such pistols a month...

100% F.U.D.

leelaw
01-30-2009, 10:41 PM
Here's the deal.

If you're a LEO, there are a few things that civilians can do that may well cause you difficulty with your superiors. A civilian can get a pistol out of the waiting period on Friday, decide to sell it on Monday, and as long as he goes through the process to sell the piece legally (and he isn't selling twenty a year...) nobody cares.

In some departments, if an officer sold a handgun, rostered or not, to a civilian through a lawful PPT, certain individuals in that department would be inclined to ask questions if they were aware of it.

Let me put it this way - say an officer puts up a firearm for sale on this site, and a certain someone took an interest in the transaction. In certain departments that officer would be on the receiving end of some pointed questions. The officer hasn't done one thing wrong legally, but certain individuals in certain departments do not like civilian firearms ownership, and they most certainly do not approve of officers selling firearms to civilians.

I'm not speaking hypothetically here.

I'm lucky in that it's not an issue in my department at this time, but it has been in the past and it could well be that way in the future as well.

Where the heck do you work? I see officers selling their guns to whomever in the Bay Area all the time!

Rogue187
01-31-2009, 10:16 AM
How would your department know if you were selling off your firearm..
Unless you've got a big mouth..it's no-one's business but your own.

Your department cannot control what you do with your personal firearms.

If you purchased the firearms with approval of your department and with a letter to waive the waiting period..the agency has no control over your personal firearms purchased with your personal monies..

I call BS on this...

DANGERCLOSE
02-02-2009, 10:31 PM
So who wants to buy a gun of your choice?

Max-the-Silent
02-03-2009, 5:20 AM
How would your department know if you were selling off your firearm..
Unless you've got a big mouth..it's no-one's business but your own.

Your department cannot control what you do with your personal firearms.

If you purchased the firearms with approval of your department and with a letter to waive the waiting period..the agency has no control over your personal firearms purchased with your personal monies..

I call BS on this...

Sorry, it is department business if they take an interest in it.

As an officer, departments often take the position that anything you do in your personal life off hours can reflect upon the department.

No they won't tap your phone or put a keylogger on your computer (unless you're really in deep ****) but individual departments have varying levels of interest in the personal firearms owned by their officers, to the point where some want a comprehensive list of every firearm owned by every officer in their employ.

I know personally of officers that hae been questioned about selling off personally owned firearms from their collection, including long guns.

My suspicion is that the DOJ has some hand in this, as in reporting to a department if an individual officer's name comes up X amount of times in a given period, but this is just suspicion on my part.

I myself have been questioned in a friendly way about my collecting activities, and the individual doing the questioning wasn't/isn't firearms friendly - and again just to make the point, I'm buying, not selling.

Think whatever you want, but civilians do indeed have more latitude in certain circumstanes than LEO's do.

BigDogatPlay
02-03-2009, 6:03 AM
Department policies, official and "unofficial", can certainly vary. And departments can take interest in just about anything concerning their employee's activities if they feel like they need to. POBOR protections aside, department bosses can chisel into their employees lives quite deeply.

I've seen agencies take interest in the strangest things so given the proclivity of command staff in some locales to be horribly anti-firearm it's pretty easy to see how some squint might ask you some questions if you were selling at or close to the maximum.

If you happen live in the town where you work your agency is getting notified when you DROS handguns at minimum, so it would become pretty easy for them to know. And the peace officer exemptions to HSC on DROS are a big, bright data point for DOJ to cull, cross reference and report out on request or, potentially, at will.

Not saying that DOJ is doing it, just saying it would be really, really easy for them to do it.