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red2sniper
12-08-2008, 6:27 PM
I found this scope at walmart, it was on the shelf for two months so they marked it down to $154.00. I am planning on putting it on a 20" ar platform, what do you think of this scope/price.:)

maxicon
12-09-2008, 11:46 AM
It's a good starter scope for a good price - they're usually closer to $180-200 discounted. It's not a great scope, but is solid and reliable, with Leupold's excellent support behind it.

The Rifleman is Leupold's starter line, has friction adjust instead of clicks with a hunter-style adjustment, is marked in 1/2 moa increments, has fully coated glass, and has a limited selection of reticles (most have the basic duplex reticle). I've got several VX1 and VariX-II Leupolds with friction adjust, and it works fine and holds zero well.

3-9x is a great range to start with, as you'll get a feel for what you like and what you need for the future.

Like most Leupolds, it holds its value well, and you should be able to sell it for what you paid for it after using it a few years, when you're ready to upgrade.

red2sniper
12-09-2008, 7:58 PM
Thanx, I appreciate the info.

Doug

LibertyOptics
12-10-2008, 1:52 PM
For that kind of cash, you could get a Vortex Diamondback that is superior in every way. Why pay the same $$ for much less scope?

Scott

MAX100
12-14-2008, 3:06 PM
I have heard they are made in China. It should be a solid scope. Let us know what you think.


GC

LibertyOptics
12-16-2008, 4:35 PM
The Rifleman series are indeed made in China as are a large proportion of Lupy scopes nowadays.

Scott

maxicon
12-17-2008, 10:01 AM
The Rifleman series are indeed made in China as are a large proportion of Lupy scopes nowadays.


The optics world point of origin question is much more complex today than it used to be.

Many of Leupold's scopes have components made in China and are assembled in the US, with closer attention to QC - I don't know if the Rifleman is one of them, or is fully made in China.

I understand many of the Vortex scopes are made in China as well, though I was told the Diamondbacks (and the current Burris Fullfield II and Nikon Buckmaster scopes) are made in the Phillipines. I wouldn't be surprised if they're all made in the same factory, but that's just a guess. Let me know if I'm wrong, as I like to keep on top of this stuff.

Some Nightforce and Zeiss scopes are assembled in USA from components made in Japan and (presumably) Germany, respectively.

What's increasingly important these days, at least in under $500 scopes, isn't so much where they're made, but what the QC is and how good the customer support is.

There are scopes like the Millet DMS-1 that are made in China to a good QC standard, if not up to Leupold's standard, and bad ones slip through now and again. Millet stands behind them with very good customer support, and that's important if you're buying inexpensive scopes.

Leupold, despite some support slips in recent years, is still the gold standard in riflescope customer support.

LibertyOptics
12-17-2008, 9:24 PM
Maxicon,

While I can't "prove" it, I'd be willing to bet that the Rifleman series are 100% off the shelf Chinese, as are all the rings/mounts in the series.

The Vortex Crossfire are Chinese, the DB and Viper are "Filipino".

You are correct about QC. Millet are chinese but the DMS-1/TRS-1 enjoy a fine record of low returns/issues. Nightforce puts alot into QC which helps them be....Nightforce.

I do like Lupy, but think with their resources and budget they could make the finest scopes on earth. Why don't they? It's the brand I grew up with.

Scott

maxicon
12-18-2008, 10:17 AM
Yep, it's hard to say these days. I think Leupold's gone over to keep competitive in the midrange scope market, as that seems to be what's required these days. Scopes that have no Chinese components or assembly tend to be pricey, as you know.

The key on the Rifleman would be how it's marked on the box or the scope. If it says "Made in China", that's pretty clear. If it says "Assembled in USA", like some scopes, that would also say something.

I don't know if Leupold will say if you call them - some manufacturers, like Burris, are up front about where their scopes come from.

MAX100
12-18-2008, 10:23 AM
Here is a good read by Gale McMillan on some of the in and outs of the scope business. It is was written a while backs but it gives some insight on the business.

Scope Makers (Gale McMillan) Link:
http://yarchive.net/gun/scope/makers.html

Click on Index at the top for other good info.


GC

maxicon
12-18-2008, 11:41 AM
Yeah, that's a good set of info, from back in the rec.guns days, before forums took over. It's pretty out of date, though - the industry's changed a lot in 10 years.

The modern equivalent of that info is out there, but on a near infinite number of forums, many of which aren't archived or in google's search paths.

I've converted over to forums, but I miss the usenet days sometimes.

MAX100
12-18-2008, 2:05 PM
Much of the info still applies. The Japanese are still the leaders in lens and tubes. Many of the same scopes are still being sold today.


GC

LibertyOptics
12-18-2008, 6:53 PM
Yep, it's hard to say these days. I think Leupold's gone over to keep competitive in the midrange scope market, as that seems to be what's required these days. Scopes that have no Chinese components or assembly tend to be pricey, as you know.

The key on the Rifleman would be how it's marked on the box or the scope. If it says "Made in China", that's pretty clear. If it says "Assembled in USA", like some scopes, that would also say something.

I don't know if Leupold will say if you call them - some manufacturers, like Burris, are up front about where their scopes come from.


The latest Mark 4 scopes I've seen say NOTHING on the scope or box. How is this allowed? At any rate, the "silence" is deafening.

Scott

brassburnz
12-24-2008, 4:31 PM
I was just comparing my VX-II and my Rifleman. Both are 3-9X40. VX-II clearly states made in USA. Rifleman doesn't say one way or the other. I even checked unde the windage/elevation caps to see if it says anything there.

One thing I did notice is the serial number of the Rifleman ends with the letter T. My other scopes don't have a letter in the serial number, at least the ones that aren't mounted on rifles and tucked in the safe.

I just bought the Rifleman from a Calgunner yesterday for $100. I don't really need this scope, but for 100 bucks I figured, "What the heck." It's NIB with all the paperwork. If I knew it was made in china, I might have passed on it.

I'll have to do some side by side comparisons when Ihave time. Wish I had one of those rifle stocks you see at the gunstore with the rubber mounts for checking out scopes!