Winchester Canyon Now Lead Free

[Burbur]

I've now heard from two reputable sources that the Forestry's renewal of the Conditional Use Permit for Winchester Canyon Gun Club includes going lead free.

Lead free shotgun, rifle and pistol...

Can anyone else confirm this?

[Wiz-of-Awd]

I've now heard from two reputable sources that the Forestry's renewal of the Conditional Use Permit for Winchester Canyon Gun Club includes going lead free.

Lead free shotgun, rifle and pistol...

Can anyone else confirm this?

Wild idea, I know, but have you tried contacting "Winchester Canyon Gun Club?"

A.W.D.

[Bobshouse]

It's true. Sad but true. Bunch of guys at the club are really upset about it.

[ghostsup]

Guess I won't be renewing my membership. I have 5K rounds of PMC .223. Really surprised that this wasn't included in my newsletter. When did this take effect?

[Jimi Jah]

Is steel banned there? I can shoot steel at Pala here.

[Capybara]

Wow, first I had heard of this, that really sucks. I too was thinking of joining to have a place to shoot up there when the Glass Factory is closed but not being able to shoot any ammo I already own nixes that. Not Winchester's fault, probably not even the Forest Service's fault, I am sure this BS came down from someone big enough to tell the Forest Service how high to jump. Lead free ammo is expensive to buy and definitely more expensive to reload. Yep, big forces at work in Santa Barbara, lots of politics and they are pushing hard to ban all shooting in the NF. Just contacted the Range Master and President to verify this, will post what I hear back.

[mikeyr]

I have 20,000plus bullets ready to load in different calibers, this will really mess me up since I spent a fortune stocking up. And what about flintlocks ? do they even have lead free for those ? do they even have .22lr lead free ? I have 18,000 .22lr, to go with those 20,000 bullets of 9mm and .38/357 and 45

This would be the end of shooting for me if this is true, I can't afford to lose that much money in ammo, I stocked up thinking they would make it hard to get ammo components, not illegal to shoot them.

[Rodell]

There is lead-free .22 ammo. It's more expensive, of course, and less available, of course.

You can always trade out for lead-free components, but the loss would be significant in numbers.

If they have clays there it pretty much puts an end to that unless you have money to burn.

This doesn't affect me, but, it sucks and I would donate to stop it if possible to avoid "creep".

[edgerly779]

^^ Good luck with finding lead free 22 lr in stock. Not for a long time.

[Capybara]

Just heard back from Winchester Canyon Gun Club management:

"We are going to non-toxic shot for the shotgun ranges in 2017. No changes to ammo for the rifle/pistol ranges" - Mike Foster, Range Manager

So a 50% false alarm.

I wonder if they have a plan to buy, reload or sell their own bulk non-lead shotgun ammo or if it will be up to the shooter? If it is up to the shooter, I doubt very many will be happy with a 50 to 100% increase in cost for a box of shells but for those who are wealthy, they will pay it.

https://www.natchezss.com/rio-target-load-blue-steel-12ga-2-3-4-1oz-7-25-box.html

[OlderThanDirt]

Anyone who hunts waterfowl is already using "nontoxic" shot. It's not that expensive.

[Dutch3]

Wow, first I had heard of this, that really sucks. I too was thinking of joining to have a place to shoot up there when the Glass Factory is closed but not being able to shoot any ammo I already own nixes that. Not Winchester's fault, probably not even the Forest Service's fault, I am sure this BS came down from someone big enough to tell the Forest Service how high to jump. Lead free ammo is expensive to buy and definitely more expensive to reload. Yep, big forces at work in Santa Barbara, lots of politics and they are pushing hard to ban all shooting in the NF. Just contacted the Range Master and President to verify this, will post what I hear back.

Well, it is within Senator Hannah-Beth Jackson's district. She publicly stated that 'law-abiding gun owners are only law-abiding until they commit a crime with their guns', during a committee hearing a few weeks ago.

To her, we are all just felons-in-waiting and need to be eliminated. Personally, I am offended and angered by her statements. I would also not be in the least bit surprised to hear that she was instrumental in this mandate at Winchester Canyon.

[Capybara]

Anyone who hunts waterfowl is already using "nontoxic" shot. It's not that expensive.

Sure, if you buy one or two boxes. When you buy cases of shells, the extra cost is multiplied. A 40-60% increase in the cost of ammo is expensive to many of us. I typically shoot between 6-10 boxes of shells on a clays outing and those typically cost me about .22-25 per round to either reload or buy the cheap target loads at Cabelas or WalMart ($5.00-$5.25 when bought in bulk on sale).

Steel seems to hover at closer to .35-40 per round for #7 hunting loads, not even sure of anyone makes #7 steel light target loads? So in a ten box session, an extra $25.00 to $30.00, just for ammo, makes a difference to me and could be the difference between someone just taking up the sport being priced out. It's mainly sad that bribery, political agendas and poor science are going to have a huge impact on the sport of target shooting as well as hunting in this state. The effect of lead on feeding Condors is highly debatable, yet the bad science has just been accepted as fact when it was put forth by people with an agenda.

[chris]

Anyone who hunts waterfowl is already using "nontoxic" shot. It's not that expensive.

it's been like that for almost 27 years I believe. I only know steel shot for duck hunting and I have been duck hunting for 20 years. :oji:

[Rodell]

Anyone who hunts waterfowl is already using "nontoxic" shot. It's not that expensive.

Really? I might shoot 400-500 rounds a day. I could easily shoot more in a week than many waterfowlers might shoot in their life. Not only will I score poorly I would go broke if I had to switch.

[August]

Really? I might shoot 400-500 rounds a day. I could easily shoot more in a week than many waterfowlers might shoot in their life. Not only will I score poorly I would go broke if I had to switch.

Might have to sharpen your shooting skills :p

[Rodell]

Might have to sharpen your shooting skills :p

I'm thinking rock salt!

[YubaRiver]

Anyone who hunts waterfowl is already using "nontoxic" shot. It's not that expensive.

Steel can't be used in older shotguns.

Cabela's 12 gauge cheapest

lead $6.49 box of 25,
steel $8.49, box of 25

Cheapest non-tox non-steel $15.99. PER 10!

My local range in WA just had someone come thru and mine the lead shot. Cost the range nothing and they got to keep a percentage of the recovered shot to reload for club use.

Lead ban is just a bunch of hoo-haw from ignorant do gooders.

[mif_slim]

Oh hey, the gunowners/shooters who didn't include ab711 in their letter to their reps are finally getting a taste of what hunters were to trying get to fight off? 3 years too late.

[OlderThanDirt]

Sure, if you buy one or two boxes. When you buy cases of shells, the extra cost is multiplied. A 40-60% increase in the cost of ammo is expensive to many of us. I typically shoot between 6-10 boxes of shells on a clays outing and those typically cost me about .22-25 per round to either reload or buy the cheap target loads at Cabelas or WalMart ($5.00-$5.25 when bought in bulk on sale).

Steel seems to hover at closer to .35-40 per round for #7 hunting loads, not even sure of anyone makes #7 steel light target loads? So in a ten box session, an extra $25.00 to $30.00, just for ammo, makes a difference to me and could be the difference between someone just taking up the sport being priced out. It's mainly sad that bribery, political agendas and poor science are going to have a huge impact on the sport of target shooting as well as hunting in this state. The effect of lead on feeding Condors is highly debatable, yet the bad science has just been accepted as fact when it was put forth by people with an agenda.

No doubt that the whole lead free agenda is based on junk science and wild supposition of exposure to poor children and dumb birds (Condors also love antifreeze). Since you will have to pay more for ammo, drink less beer to cover the cost.

Really? I might shoot 400-500 rounds a day. I could easily shoot more in a week than many waterfowlers might shoot in their life. Not only will I score poorly I would go broke if I had to switch.

Well, being in Washington, you don't really have to worry about what they are doing at the Winchester Canyon Gun Club. Just keep one eye on the EPA and the Center for Biological Diversity, or you might be going lead free.

Steel can't be used in older shotguns.

Cabela's 12 gauge cheapest

lead $6.49 box of 25,
steel $8.49, box of 25

Cheapest non-tox non-steel $15.99. PER 10!

My local range in WA just had someone come thru and mine the lead shot. Cost the range nothing and they got to keep a percentage of the recovered shot to reload for club use.

Lead ban is just a bunch of hoo-haw from ignorant do gooders.

See above comment about Washington state and junk science. You also need to expand your horizon beyond Cabela's for ammo purchases. They are rarely the best deal in town and sometimes are outrageous. I only get ammo from Cabela's when it is free (I run $100-200k of business expenses through their club card and get lots of free stuff).

Also, "mining" is frowned on in the PRCA, so removing lead from a range by "mining", while making sense, would be opposed by the same envirofreaks.

[Rodell]

Well, being in Washington, you don't really have to worry about what they are doing at the Winchester Canyon Gun Club. Just keep one eye on the EPA and the Center for Biological Diversity, or you might be going lead free.



I may be in WA, but I donate to CA causes. If there's a fight over this, I'll help out because I don't want it leeching north. That was the point of commenting in the first place.

Instead of calling it "mining" the lead, simply call it "restoration", or, if necessary, "clean up". The enviros will be out there helping.

[nn3453]

I may be in WA, but I donate to CA causes. If there's a fight over this, I'll help out because I don't want it leeching north. That was the point of commenting in the first place.

Instead of calling it "mining" the lead, simply call it "restoration", or, if necessary, "clean up". The enviros will be out there helping.

Yeah same here. I have spent countless hours shooting at WCGC. Love that range. Glad I don't live in Santa Barbara county anymore though. It used to be relatively less liberal than L.A. and the WCGC is a great place to shoot.

[OlderThanDirt]

I may be in WA, but I donate to CA causes. If there's a fight over this, I'll help out because I don't want it leeching north. That was the point of commenting in the first place.

Instead of calling it "mining" the lead, simply call it "restoration", or, if necessary, "clean up". The enviros will be out there helping.

It's a gun range. The enviros would kill the last condor if they thought they could shut the place down.

[ghostsup]

Just heard back from Winchester Canyon Gun Club management:

"We are going to non-toxic shot for the shotgun ranges in 2017. No changes to ammo for the rifle/pistol ranges" - Mike Foster, Range Manager

So a 50% false alarm.

I wonder if they have a plan to buy, reload or sell their own bulk non-lead shotgun ammo or if it will be up to the shooter? If it is up to the shooter, I doubt very many will be happy with a 50 to 100% increase in cost for a box of shells but for those who are wealthy, they will pay it.

https://www.natchezss.com/rio-target-load-blue-steel-12ga-2-3-4-1oz-7-25-box.html

Thanks for checking it out Capybara... appreciated. I'm on the good side of that 50% false alarm.

[Capybara]

It definitely sucks for clays shooters. It is coming for the rest of you, just give it a year or two.

[sargenv]

Richmond Rod & Gun Club had to switch to Non-toxic - Bio wads for skeet & trap shooting back in the 90's.. Kent sells such a shell and Winchester and Federal both sell steel shot alternatives for the non-toxic venue.. just no one sells the bio wads like Kent does.

As for whether there is a non-toxic alternative for smokepoles.. Ballistic products sells an ITX no-tox projectile for certain caliber muzzle loaders..

[smokeyfs]

Just wait, they are going to start a ton of fires now.

[mikeyr]

As for whether there is a non-toxic alternative for smokepoles.. Ballistic products sells an ITX no-tox projectile for certain caliber muzzle loaders..
$12 for 8 rounds. I will have to win the lottery before I can afford the ITX products

[hikingwithguns]

I miss Wcgc, but I do not miss the politics of Santa Barbara. So glad I escaped to free territory.

[Whiterabbit]

As for whether there is a non-toxic alternative for smokepoles.. Ballistic products sells an ITX no-tox projectile for certain caliber muzzle loaders..

Unless you shoot 58 cal, in which case you are hosed.

[Capybara]

Someone posted some new zinc projectile non-lead ammo in another thread. Here it is https://massammo.com/9-mm-348.html The cost was cheap, $189.00 per 1k for 9mm re-loaded ammo. I am assuming Zinc would be considered "non-toxic"?

It would be good to see some chrono readings and accuracy testing but for plinking at least, the concept seems to hold some promise. I have no problem shooting Zinc ammo for plinking as long as it doesn't mess up my barrels ('Zinc my barrels' instead of 'lead' my barrels'?) and is reasonably accurate. The majority of my shooting is plinking, setting up steel at 25-50' with pistols and having a good time ringing it so I usually don't need the good stuff other than for SD/HD and if I ever decide to shoot competitively.

[mif_slim]

Zinc would be like AP rounds but super light and maybe even not so accurate? I've casted a few zinc bullets in my days and they are hard as steel and light as air. Don't even think about expansion.

[mif_slim]

Thanks for checking it out Capybara... appreciated. I'm on the good side of that 50% false alarm.

Also, I think it's this type of thinking that gets all firearms/ammo bans to gain grounds on our rights. "As long as it doesn't effect me." Kind of thinking.

[ghostsup]

I miss Wcgc, but I do not miss the politics of Santa Barbara. So glad I escaped to free territory.

Yeah I hear you. I've lived here for all of my life and it's really a sad state of affairs in Santa Barbara. All of the transplants from other states have killed the community. Liberals and illegals everywhere you turn. I hear more Spanish these days than English.

So... where did you move?

[Whiterabbit]

Someone posted some new zinc projectile non-lead ammo in another thread. Here it is https://massammo.com/9-mm-348.html The cost was cheap, $189.00 per 1k for 9mm re-loaded ammo. I am assuming Zinc would be considered "non-toxic"?

It would be good to see some chrono readings and accuracy testing but for plinking at least, the concept seems to hold some promise. I have no problem shooting Zinc ammo for plinking as long as it doesn't mess up my barrels ('Zinc my barrels' instead of 'lead' my barrels'?) and is reasonably accurate. The majority of my shooting is plinking, setting up steel at 25-50' with pistols and having a good time ringing it so I usually don't need the good stuff other than for SD/HD and if I ever decide to shoot competitively.

Maybe, but that should be up to you and the market, not up to bogus laws designed only to harass gun owners.