Question on Father's Pre-Ban AR-15

[SubSolar]

My Dad bought a Colt AR-15 before the ban. He pretty much never uses it anymore but I do. I was just wondering what happens when he eventually passes away. Do I get ownership, or does this violate the law about transferring assault weapon ownership? Could he somehow put the gun in my name while he is living or add me to it or something?

[OCArmory]

Is it a registered assault weapon or just one he had before the ban?

[Librarian]

In California, cannot transfer the Colt to anyone except "FFL with aw license". That includes inheritance.

If you move out of state, you can inherit it there.

(Strictly speaking, you can inherit it here, but must move it out of state within 90 days...Any person who (A) obtains title to an assault weapon registered under this section or that was
possessed pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12280 by bequest or intestate succession, or (B) lawfully possessed a firearm subsequently declared to be an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5, or subsequently defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, shall, within 90 days,

render the weapon permanently inoperable,

sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer,

obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2,

or remove the weapon from this state. , PC 12285(b)(1).)

Because it seems it's a "named" aw, can't modify it into an 'off list lower' configuration.

[SubSolar]

He registered it. So if I don't move, when he dies the government just takes it back?

[DedEye]

He registered it. So if I don't move, when he dies the government just takes it back?

I remember reading some rumblings about it being possible to get a lawyer to help you inherit it; hopefully BillW or someone else will chime in with the details.

[jamesob]

I remember reading some rumblings about it being possible to get a lawyer to help you inherit it; hopefully BillW or someone else will chime in with the details.even if you could get a lawyer to help you out, you would have a 10,000 dollar ar15. its called confiscation what the state is doing.

[tetris]

Why not just sell the lower receiver to somebody in a free state on GunBroker? Then buy a new one that is legal in CA and reassemble?

[c good]

Why not just sell the lower receiver to somebody in a free state on GunBroker? Then buy a new one that is legal in CA and reassemble?

Exactly! Keep the upper, build a compliant OLL with a new lower. c good

[gcvt]

Yup, toss (sell) the lower and avoid all the hassles.

[Sobriquet]

Exactly! Keep the upper, build a compliant OLL with a new lower. c good

Librarian explicitly stated that wasn't an option.

[Hunter158]

Librarian explicitly stated that wasn't an option.

IINM, the only part that is considered an AW, IS the lower... It is the only part that has a serial number, and therefore is the only part "registered"?

Wasn't there some talk a while back about putting the gun into a trust, or having it owned by a corporation to allow successors of the trust/corporation to receive it?

[blackberg]

Librarian explicitly stated that wasn't an option.

He cannot reconfigure his current lower to a configuration that OLL are configured (fixed mag or featureless) since its a named lower and it will still be an AW

But there is nothing that prevents him to remove the lower and sell the original lower trough a CA AW FFL to an out of state buyer, and buy a new OLL and add it his original parts (upper, stock, etc) and have a *new* and legal rifle.

-blackberg

[rod]

Librarian explicitly stated that wasn't an option.

If he replaced the lower with something off list, it is no longer a listed firearm. He can sell the Colt lower receiver to a licensed AW dealer, or store it in another state, or shove it up a monkey's butt. As long as he has an off list lower built up in a legal way, the rifle is no longer an assault weapon.

[Librarian]

If he replaced the lower with something off list, it is no longer a listed firearm. He can sell the Colt lower receiver to a licensed AW dealer, or store it in another state, or shove it up a monkey's butt. As long as he has an off list lower built up in a legal way, the rifle is no longer an assault weapon.Right, it's only the 'named' lower that's at issue - a new lower with the appropriate set up could re-use the upper.

I'll discourage cruelty to animals, though. :eek: (PC 597)

And no, the state won't take the thing if you inherit it; they just expect you to actively do one of the things the law requires. If you do not do so, and they choose to enforce that law, then they'll probably seize it and provide interesting legal complications for you.

[M. Sage]

Librarian explicitly stated that wasn't an option.

No, what he meant is that you can't reconfigure it to a fixed-mag or featureless build and make it legal that way.

You can sell the lower (which is the actual AW), and put the upper on an off-list lower for a CA-compliant build.

Heck, the most expensive part is the upper...

Oh, and to the OP: You shouldn't be taking a registered AW places without the person it's registered to...

[fairfaxjim]

Oh, and to the OP: You shouldn't be taking a registered AW places without the person it's registered to...

This is pretty sound advice.

It would probably be in your best interest to simply build an OLL to use with the upper, and then, while your father is still alive to handle any paperwork without lawyers involved, for him to sell the lower out of state and notify the DOJ that there is one less AW in California. You get a much out of the deal as you are ever going to get, and limit the hassle of the estate having to deal with the AW part after he passes.

[Glock22Fan]

But there is nothing that prevents him to remove the lower and sell the original lower trough a CA AW FFL to an out of state buyer, and buy a new OLL and add it his original parts (upper, stock, etc) and have a *new* and legal rifle.

Is this only practical with an AR-15, or would it also apply to something like an SKS? I know this might be a silly question, but it's an area of ignorance for me.

[bwiese]

But there is nothing that prevents him to remove the lower and sell the original lower trough a CA AW FFL to an out of state buyer, and buy a new OLL and add it his original parts (upper, stock, etc) and have a *new* and legal rifle.
Is this only practical with an AR-15, or would it also apply to something like an SKS? I know this might be a silly question, but it's an area of ignorance for me.


John, assuming legal reg'd AW ownership, he can sell the listed lower or a full-house AW:
(1) thru a CA FFL holding a CA AW permit
(2) drive it outta state and sell it to/thru an FFL there;.

Given transaction costs of CA AW permitees vs costs of lowers in free states this may wind up to be getting coffee & donut money.

There may be some demand for 'pre 1994' true Colt AR15 lowers in other states like NY & NJ, I'm not sure how their ban works - it seems closer to the expired Fed 1994 AWB with a bit of warpage thrown in but I don't wanna engage in W.A.G. speculation.

Registered Category III AWs (i.e, by feature, not by name) can have sufficient evil features removed to render them into non-AWs. They then can be treated as normal long guns/barreled actions and can be shipped without CA AW permittee intervention. They can be transferred to CA resident if AW status deregistered with DOJ.

IN THEORY (and not recommended practice) it appears that a stripped *listed* receiver is not an AW. It's certainly a readily defendable case, and the legislative analysis in summer of 2006 presaging AB2728, combined with the prefatory language of 12276PC (Roberti-Roos) indicates such. [The preceding sentences should in no way be read as to encourage retention or acquisition of unregistered listed (Roberti-Roos or Kasler) receivers however (!!) ]

It also appears that Colt really doesn't know what an AR15 is, as that is their own series designator not applying to any specific rifle. If an FFL tried to order an AR15 from Colt - or even a Match Target or Sporter Target - there would be a puzzled reaction. All Colts' formal model designators are numbers like R6600, R6000, MT6700, LE6920, etc.: this is how the gun is ordered and how it'd show up in inventory. In fact, it appears that the examplar of the Stoner "series" does not even truly exist (i.e, at least post-Harrott, they banned a nonexistent gun!)

Credence to the above paragraph is given by DOJ actions in the Evan's Gunsmithing "Iggy says it's not listed anymore because we welded it" and took it "out of series status" fiasco. Separate from the Bushmaster XM15 matters (definitely listed), Iggy told EGSW that the Colt Match Targets weren't even listed because they were MT6400s, which is actually correct at the detailed level.

[jerryg1776]

He registered it. So if I don't move, when he dies the government just takes it back?

They don't take it back they steal it. There is a differnce.

[bwiese]

He registered it. So if I don't move,
when he dies the government just takes it back?

You could arrange for the estate/probate executor (within the time limit, I think it's 90 days from estate disposal onset date) to ship it to you in another state even if you didn't live there; since it's an estate, you wouldn't need an FFL to do this. You could then retain it in that state, store it safely and 'visit it'.

Let's see if we can't kill the AW ban before your dad checks out, OK? (And a long & happy life to him, btw.).

[SubSolar]

Well, the reason I wanted to keep it was it was because it was pre-ban and doesn't need to be neutered. I didn't really want to change parts, I can just buy an AR-15 off list with a bullet button or what not if I want a neutered AR-15.

[bwiese]

Well, the reason I wanted to keep it was it was because it was pre-ban and doesn't need to be neutered.

Doesn't need to be neutered - for the original registered owner.

You can't inherit an AW within CA.