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USMCM16A2
12-08-2015, 7:10 PM
Folks,



We as a group need a symbol, an identifier for our persecuted minority status. Arm bands with some symbol, like the Nazis did with the Jews. The Deleons, Skinners, etc are no better than the Nazis taking out their hatred of us. Ideas?A2

glockman19
12-08-2015, 7:25 PM
Folks,



We as a group need a symbol, an identifier for our persecuted minority status. Arm bands with some symbol, like the Nazis did with the Jews. The Deleons, Skinners, etc are no better than the Nazis taking out their hatred of us. Ideas?A2

III

BretByron
12-08-2015, 7:35 PM
III

^^^^^ Boom!

riderr
12-08-2015, 7:38 PM
Folks,



We as a group need a symbol, an identifier for our persecuted minority status. Arm bands with some symbol, like the Nazis did with the Jews. The Deleons, Skinners, etc are no better than the Nazis taking out their hatred of us. Ideas?A2You really don't want to send a message that you are a part of a neglected minority. It's a sign of desperation.
You have to send a message, that you represent a part of a powerful mob. Having said that, simply wear NRA patch in the way, it could be easily recognized.

Mayor McRifle
12-08-2015, 7:55 PM
The Gadsden flag.

Librarian
12-08-2015, 8:05 PM
We as a group need a symbol, an identifier for our persecuted minority status. Arm bands with some symbol, like the Nazis did with the Jews.

Or brown shirts and red armbands, right?

Good heavens - are you really that tone deaf? What a horrifying idea!

The larger point, however, is valid. It's time that gun owners stop hiding.

ScottyXbones
12-08-2015, 8:07 PM
You really don't want to send a message that you are a part of a neglected minority. It's a sign of desperation.
You have to send a message, that you represent a part of a powerful mob. Having said that, simply wear NRA patch in the way, it could be easily recognized.

No, he's not talking about a symbol of a minority, but a symbol to show that we as a group that's being unfairly victimized, like jews in 1930's Germany.

I think it's a good idea. We could all wear black armbands with a baby blue "2" on it. People would definitely ask questions, but first, someone should set up a dedicated webpage that just lays out the laws in CA. People will be able to see for themselves that the current laws are crazy. Maybe a link to a local 2A activist group would be good too

skyblue
12-08-2015, 8:22 PM
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff121/skyblue314/Mk12%20Mod%200/CA%20Bear%20No%20Arms_zpslyqp9dyw.jpg

http://www.endoapparel.com/california-flag-no-right-to-bear-arms-2x3-morale-patch/

...Although I would probably wear this flipped upside down to indicate California's current state of distress.

riderr
12-08-2015, 8:22 PM
No, he's not talking about a symbol of a minority, but a symbol to show that we as a group that's being unfairly victimized, like jews in 1930's Germany.

I think it's a good idea. We could all wear black armbands with a baby blue "2" on it. People would definitely ask questions, but first, someone should set up a dedicated webpage that just lays out the laws in CA. People will be able to see for themselves that the current laws are crazy. Maybe a link to a local 2A activist group would be good tooI still believe an NRA sign will work much better.

fiddletown
12-08-2015, 8:37 PM
...we as a group that's being unfairly victimized, like jews in 1930's Germany.....Really? Do you really think that non-gun owners are going to see gun owners as victimized.

Victimized looks like:


This --

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Oppressed%20Minority/JewsScrubbingStreetsVienna_zps3e1ep16y.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Oppressed%20Minority/JewsScrubbingStreetsVienna_zps3e1ep16y.jpg.html)


and


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Oppressed%20Minority/poland-german-occupation-ww2-jewish-police-german-soldiers-lodz-ghetto_zps7midoccr.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Oppressed%20Minority/poland-german-occupation-ww2-jewish-police-german-soldiers-lodz-ghetto_zps7midoccr.jpg.html)


and


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Oppressed%20Minority/warsaw_nazis_zpskayjrra2.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Oppressed%20Minority/warsaw_nazis_zpskayjrra2.jpg.html)


and


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Oppressed%20Minority/dresden-pile-of-bodies_zpsdlxcv4ir.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Oppressed%20Minority/dresden-pile-of-bodies_zpsdlxcv4ir.jpg.html)


Do you really think that non-gum owners will see these folks as victimized:


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Random%20for%20boards/f32697ac-39fa-416c-b8da-506cf7182d4d_zpsa4207be8.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Random%20for%20boards/f32697ac-39fa-416c-b8da-506cf7182d4d_zpsa4207be8.jpg.html)


and


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Random%20for%20boards/Chipotle_zpsf13c25f1.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Random%20for%20boards/Chipotle_zpsf13c25f1.jpg.html)

Rosebud22
12-08-2015, 8:41 PM
I always wanted to make up tee shirts that said:
"Keep the gun, leave the cannoli"**
It would drive the anti's nuts.

Ref** Godfather I

00Medic
12-08-2015, 8:43 PM
The larger point, however, is valid. It's time that gun owners stop hiding.

^ THIS!!!

Imagine if ALL gun owners finally came out and demanded no more infringements to their civil rights.

We are now at war on on our home soil on multiple fronts. With terrorist and with our own government. To be silent and hide now is the same as surrenering. Time to make our voice heard as ONE and let it be known that any further infringments will be met with dire consequences. We need to stand up not as NRA or GOA or any other representitve group but as AMERICAN GUN OWNERS!!!

Besides, what are we afraid of? That if we speak out they will take our guns away from us? :rolleyes:

/rant off

Soginator
12-08-2015, 8:44 PM
No, he's not talking about a symbol of a minority, but a symbol to show that we as a group that's being unfairly victimized, like jews in 1930's Germany.

I'm very confused why you think anti's would a) care and b) even consider it to be true considering every anti article I have read has referred to the NRA as bullies/terrorists. Every time I point out to people that no one is getting shot over the gun debate, it just goes to courts, they call it "nra propaganda." Anti's dont care about your rights. It's that simple. Even if they won't admit they want guns gone, it is what they want (ask anyone who asks for more gun laws if they even know what current gun laws are. They won't).

Hairball
12-08-2015, 8:59 PM
Instead of worrying about anti-gunners, worry about the millions of gun owners that don't even vote. Sending a few bucks to the NRA is not going to change anything in the long run as the rights will slowly erode away. Might not happen in what's left of my lifetime but it's only a matter of time as we can't even get our own pro-gunners involved.

sfpcservice
12-08-2015, 9:04 PM
What they hate is that we refuse to be victims and have the tools to effect that refusal... I'm not sure we can bring them on board by pretending to be victims....

qdx450
12-09-2015, 7:55 AM
a rainbow flag with the sparta "come and take it":43:

duckman45
12-09-2015, 8:41 AM
I've starting responding to gun control posts on facebook. I didn't for a long time. Just let them be.

Now, I let the poster know that they are advocating taking away my civil rights. I don't call them bigots, but I'm tempted.

When I say, "You are talking about me. You are talking about taking away my rights as a citizen, and I'm willing to fight to keep those rights.

I'm willing to donate my money, my time, and my blood if needed to keep these rights.

That shuts the argument down. Once they realize these "gun owners" are actually their friends, they can't justify vilifying them as much.

Mayor McRifle
12-09-2015, 8:43 AM
Once they realize these "gun owners" are actually their friends, they can't justify vilifying them as much.

Exactly! This is why every responsible gun owner in this state must come out of the closet right now.

A-J
12-09-2015, 10:19 AM
I'm very confused why you think anti's would a) care and b) even consider it to be true considering every anti article I have read has referred to the NRA as bullies/terrorists. Every time I point out to people that no one is getting shot over the gun debate, it just goes to courts, they call it "nra propaganda." Anti's dont care about your rights. It's that simple. Even if they won't admit they want guns gone, it is what they want (ask anyone who asks for more gun laws if they even know what current gun laws are. They won't).

And constantly refer to us as gun nuts who are just itching for a reason to shoot someone/something. Not realizing that if even 20% of us were as crazy as they portray us to be that there wouldn't be any anti-gun people left alive anymore. Instead, we combat them in a civilized way, in the courts, using facts. While they denegrate our position in the media with emotions.

Librarian
12-09-2015, 10:29 AM
Run through the links at instapundit today - lots of things on point for this thread - but Reynolds is the aggregator, not Calguns.

I'll particularly recommend the short piece "KEN WHITE: Talking Productively About Guns"

Ford8N
12-09-2015, 10:43 AM
III


:patriot:

duckman45
12-09-2015, 10:47 AM
As I was driving to work the other day, I saw a lifted pickup (or SUV) with a CGN sticker on it. I ordered one the same day.

dlcain
12-09-2015, 11:11 AM
Run through the links at instapundit today - lots of things on point for this thread - but Reynolds is the aggregator, not Calguns.

I'll particularly recommend the short piece "KEN WHITE: Talking Productively About Guns"

https://popehat.com/2015/12/07/talking-productively-about-guns/

Vicks
12-09-2015, 11:25 AM
We are fighting on several fronts and losing on most of them. Some of these are battles we shouldn't even be fighting.

Debating with anti gun people is a waste of time. You know they will not change your mind and you know you can't change theirs.
You can tell them fact after fact and it makes no difference. Anti gun people are not interested in reality, or truth.
The only thing they're interested in is winning even if it's for the wrong side.

My recommendation to everyone is to stop. Just stop. If someone tries to engage you in a debate just drop it. Don't say anything and don't take their bait. After it's over they'll only twist your words and it'll give them more incentive to run to their anti gun friends and brag about how insane you are, mislead, blah blah blah.

Take your argument to the one target that matters. The person how makes the decisions. Governor Jerry Brown. He's the puppet master for this state. He dictates what the mayor and sheriff do.

We need to mount an endless assault of phone calls, emails, letters on him and wear him down. Every single time there's a news article about someone saving lives by using a gun Brown should be buried with copies of that from everyone.
Get organized.
Introduce yourself at the shooting range. Find out if someone is a member of Calguns. Invite them to a shoot. Get them involved. Get them activated.

There's millions of us in California. We need to flex our muscle as a single entity. If there's a California business that's promoting anti gun issues we need to call on everyone to publicly denounce them and not use their business.
Some may not feel the impact, but you can be sure that as social outlets like Yelp, Twitter, Foursquare and others fill up with our protests they won't be able to ignore us.

Coming together for charity drives, helping the homeless, getting noticed and winning public support.

Look at how other groups are getting media attention through positive actions. That's what we should be doing.

Not to be harsh, but 'awareness' never accomplished anything. All those people posting on Facebook about animal cruelty, fighting cancer, aids runs, etc., are pointless. Nobody is going to change anything because someone posted a meme on Facebook.
We have to make our politicians so sick and tired of us, so afraid to meet us in the hallway because we'll talk his ear off, so worn down that just seeing a 2nd Amendment proponent will make him want to cry that they'll give us back our freedoms just to shut us up.

DaveInOroValley
12-09-2015, 11:28 AM
Unfortunately in my experience no matter how you try to present actual facts to an anti they end up accusing you of fabricating the information since it goes against the myths that they've been fed for so long. I'll always keep trying but man my head is getting real sore from hitting the wall so much.

estrom
12-09-2015, 12:01 PM
#2ALivesmatter!

USMCM16A2
12-09-2015, 12:02 PM
Folks armbands will do it. Yes we are desperate, DLeon, Skinner, Perata, Steinberg, Feurer, are people that hate a minority in this state. Those of us that hunt, game and fish is being taken over by people who want hunting eradicated. So people WAKE the **** up, we are fighting for our asses.
When the Latino, African Americans, Gays and lesbians were getting the **** knocked out of them, they fought back. The entire Government apparatus is taking a giant **** on us. Courts, Legislative, all of it. The formentioned have an easy way to target, gun owners. We are not any particular color or ethnicity, the majority does not care and has no stake. So we shall see, A2

niq000
12-09-2015, 1:48 PM
gayun rights parade?

wjc
12-09-2015, 3:19 PM
Already have my patch....

462076

CitaDeL
12-09-2015, 4:31 PM
It is the gun prohibitionists that need the symbol, not us. I say we start handing out a free patch for all the gun grabbers. One that looks like a circular target bulls-eye. We can call it a 'gun safety award' for being 'on target' fighting gun violence.

Any perceived double meaning is completely unintended.

ScottyXbones
12-09-2015, 7:51 PM
Really? Do you really think that non-gun owners are going to see gun owners as victimized.

Victimized looks like:


This --

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Oppressed%20Minority/JewsScrubbingStreetsVienna_zps3e1ep16y.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Oppressed%20Minority/JewsScrubbingStreetsVienna_zps3e1ep16y.jpg.html)


and


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Oppressed%20Minority/poland-german-occupation-ww2-jewish-police-german-soldiers-lodz-ghetto_zps7midoccr.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Oppressed%20Minority/poland-german-occupation-ww2-jewish-police-german-soldiers-lodz-ghetto_zps7midoccr.jpg.html)


and


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Oppressed%20Minority/warsaw_nazis_zpskayjrra2.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Oppressed%20Minority/warsaw_nazis_zpskayjrra2.jpg.html)


and


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Oppressed%20Minority/dresden-pile-of-bodies_zpsdlxcv4ir.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Oppressed%20Minority/dresden-pile-of-bodies_zpsdlxcv4ir.jpg.html)


Do you really think that non-gum owners will see these folks as victimized:


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Random%20for%20boards/f32697ac-39fa-416c-b8da-506cf7182d4d_zpsa4207be8.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Random%20for%20boards/f32697ac-39fa-416c-b8da-506cf7182d4d_zpsa4207be8.jpg.html)


and


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/fiddletown_2006/Random%20for%20boards/Chipotle_zpsf13c25f1.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/fiddletown_2006/media/Random%20for%20boards/Chipotle_zpsf13c25f1.jpg.html)

I was watching an episode of Lockup the other night where a normal guy from California was caught with an assault weapon he thought was legal. Not a gang member, no tattoos, just a guy. Now he's someone's prison. ..ah..friend and he looks forward to work release at a nearby ranch shoveling horse excrement.

Show me one shooting range that's on a nice piece of real estate. All of the outdoor ones are in the boonies, the indoor ones are in industrial areas or ghettos.

I don't have time but there are photos and videos of cops choke-slamming an 80 year old grandma during Katrina and an elderly man in CA whose home was mistakenly raided by the APPS program.

They haven't put us in gas chambers yet, but if we have another Democrat president or two or three, eventually the time will come when we will have to give up our rights or face the violence of the government. Not every US citizen, just us gun owners. The Democrats haven't made their goals a secret, they proudly announce that they're going to ban all the guns they can.

The open carry movement was just a small first step. The equivalent of a gay pride parade. It announced we were not going to back into the shadows and give up our rights quietly, but the goal was not to get sympathy from non-gun owners, just to announce we're here and the are more of us than you thought.

lowimpactuser
12-09-2015, 7:59 PM
Folks armbands will do it. Yes we are desperate, DLeon, Skinner, Perata, Steinberg, Feurer, are people that hate a minority in this state. Those of us that hunt, game and fish is being taken over by people who want hunting eradicated. So people WAKE the **** up, we are fighting for our asses.
When the Latino, African Americans, Gays and lesbians were getting the **** knocked out of them, they fought back. The entire Government apparatus is taking a giant **** on us. Courts, Legislative, all of it. The formentioned have an easy way to target, gun owners. We are not any particular color or ethnicity, the majority does not care and has no stake. So we shall see, A2

The point is you're not thinking. The people wearing armbands with guns in hand were Nazis. The minorities that were lead to death camps wore symbols on their breasts. Armbands will literally have liberals calling us fascists aligned with donald trump and that we need to be defeated. If you hadn't been here since 2006, I'd call you out as an agent provocateur for the other side. Absolutely the opposite of what we want. Not only no, but HELL no.

Further, the idea of having property confiscated from group of citizens does NOT rouse the sentiments of others. Especially if we look like we can afford to lose it.

No, this activism you talk about is ridiculous, and going to go nowhere. Period.

The only thing that creates sympathy is taking people to the range. And most people are too old and open-minded to do so.

A HUGE effort at college outreach, with attractive college students/college age representatives with .22s and tons of free ammo is the best outreach in this state.

fiddletown
12-09-2015, 8:05 PM
I was watching an episode of Lockup the other night where a normal guy from California was caught with an assault weapon he thought was legal.....Except he was wrong, it wasn't legal. Show me some non-gun owners who were upset about that.

Show me one shooting range that's on a nice piece of real estate. All of the outdoor ones are in the boonies, the indoor ones are in industrial areas or ghettos....Show me some non-gun owners who care.

...I don't have time but there are photos and videos of cops choke-slamming an 80 year old grandma during Katrina and an elderly man in CA whose home was mistakenly raided by the APPS program....If you don't have the time to find the documentation, these incidents are no help to us.


...the goal was not to get sympathy from non-gun owners, just to announce we're here and the are more of us than you thought.But no one really cares. The Civil Rights Movement and the Gay Rights Movement worked because they did get the sympathy of whites and straights.

For example, during the days of the Civil Rights Movement of the '50s and '60s, civil disobedience, as favorably reported by the mainstream media, and as favorably commented upon on college campuses and in sermons in houses of worship across the nation, helped generate great public sympathy for the cause. That sympathy helped lead to the election of pro-civil rights legislators and executives. And that led to the enactment of pro-civil rights laws.

ScottyXbones
12-09-2015, 8:18 PM
Unfortunately in my experience no matter how you try to present actual facts to an anti they end up accusing you of fabricating the information since it goes against the myths that they've been fed for so long. I'll always keep trying but man my head is getting real sore from hitting the wall so much.

You are correct. An anti just wants to argue, so don't take them seriously, leave your facts at home, just say something like "first of all, iron your shirt before you talk to me"

Let's say maybe 5% of Californians are anti gun, we're not going to bother with them. Something like 1 in 5 Californians own a gun, and there's a whole 5000 of us that care enough to do something about it. We need to change that. In addition, I still have faith that most people are reasonable and when presented with facts, will make the right decision when it comes to gun rights, especially in light of the radical islamic attacks in San Bernardino and Victorville.

The armband idea, if done right, would accomplish what we'd otherwise have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on billboards, tv ads, etc.

The average person thinks you can walk into a gun store with a $20 bill and walk out 5 min later with a full auto M16. I'm serious. An awareness campaign of how we're being subjected to felonies over trivial things like how we hold a rifle (pistol grip or rifle stock) can sway public opinion.

Taking (the right) co-workers to the range can work wonders too. In my city a doctor took his friends and colleagues shooting and they told everyone how they had a ball. 4 months later we have 20 volunteers a month who've taught about 200 medical professionals how to shoot and the doc has a waiting list 400 people long.

Since this thread is about a public awareness campaign, I'll leave it at that. Changing the politics is going to be a long, drawn out process. Gun owners of the past 5 decades sat on their rear ends while the antis were hard at work.

fiddletown
12-09-2015, 8:26 PM
....The armband idea, if done right, would accomplish what we'd otherwise have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on billboards, tv ads, etc....What makes you think so and what evidence do you have to support your contention?

I continue to be dismayed by the failure of so many in the RKBA community to recognize the importance of positively influencing public opinion or to have any real clue about how to determine how to go about doing that.

During the course of my career I've had a pretty fair amount of experience working with business clients who needed to be able to influence public perception, understand how to make advertising effective and find the best ways to effectively communicate their messages. When a lot was at stake, they didn't just guess.

They didn't assume that their audiences would think the ways they did or have the same values and perceptions. They consulted with psychologists and others who have studied human motivation and perception and beliefs. They thoroughly analyzed the demographics of the audiences and tried to understand what they cared about, what they were scared of, what made them happy or feel secure, what they believed and didn't believe.

They also tested their conclusions with surveys and focus groups. They paid attention to what was happening and made adjustments in their messages and techniques if things weren't working the way they wanted them to.

And I strongly suspect that our opposition is doing at least some of those things.

....Taking (the right) co-workers to the range can work wonders too. In my city a doctor took his friends and colleagues shooting and they told everyone how they had a ball. 4 months later we have 20 volunteers a month who've taught about 200 medical professionals how to shoot and the doc has a waiting list 400 people long. ....That sort of thing, taking people shooting, is probably the single most useful tactic we have. I've been helping teach beginner for years and now am with a group of instructors putting on monthly NRA Basic Handgun classes (and none of us are paid).

lowimpactuser
12-09-2015, 8:51 PM
The armband idea, if done right, would accomplish what we'd otherwise have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on billboards, tv ads, etc.

Is the proper way to do the armband thing to walk around in all black while goose-stepping and raising our right arms?

The average person thinks you can walk into a gun store with a $20 bill and walk out 5 min later with a full auto M16. I'm serious. An awareness campaign of how we're being subjected to felonies over trivial things like how we hold a rifle (pistol grip or rifle stock) can sway public opinion.
True. Most people believe if you're allowed to own a gun you're allowed to carry it. They don't know about the subjective criteria to carry. That being said, WHY WOULD THEY CARE?

Taking (the right) co-workers to the range can work wonders too. In my city a doctor took his friends and colleagues shooting and they told everyone how they had a ball. 4 months later we have 20 volunteers a month who've taught about 200 medical professionals how to shoot and the doc has a waiting list 400 people long.

Since this thread is about a public awareness campaign, I'll leave it at that. Changing the politics is going to be a long, drawn out process. Gun owners of the past 5 decades sat on their rear ends while the antis were hard at work.

Agreed. Shooting, range time, newbies. It's the strongest thing we have and everyone needs to be involved in making this happen.

And the thing to remember is, the antis have changed their tone NUMEROUS times until success. Brady campaign used to be Handgun control, inc. They have CHANGED, TRIED, FAILED, REINVENTED. As fiddletown says- research, appeal, and finding what moves people here matters.

I personally believe you can try to take people shooting to change the culture, but that's only one part, and we need to also try to create some greater changes to culture on a national level to impact California.

Top Shotta HiFi
12-11-2015, 7:50 AM
I have been off work for the last few days and got into a debate with some antis on another site and presented them with the 2013 World Murder statistics:
- 2013 WORLD MURDER STATISTICS From the World Health Organization <- not paid off by NRA

Per 100,000 citizens per year

Honduras 91.6 (WOW!!)
El Salvador 69.2
Cote d'lvoire 56.9
Jamaica 52.2
Venezuela 45.1
Belize 41.4
US Virgin Islands 39.2
Guatemala 38.5
Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2
Zambia 38.0
Uganda 36.3
Malawi 36.0
Lesotho 35.2
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
Colombia 33.4
South Africa 31.8
Congo 30.8
Central African Republic 29.3
Bahamas 27.4
Puerto Rico 26.2
Saint Lucia 25.2
Dominican Republic 25.0
Tanzania 24.5
Sudan 24.2
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
Ethiopia 22.5
Guinea 22.5
Dominica 22.1
Burundi 21.7
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
Panama 21.6
Brazil 21.0
Equatorial Guinea 20.7
Guinea-Bissau 20.2
Kenya 20.1
Kyrgyzstan 20.1
Cameroon 19.7
Montserrat 19.7
Greenland 19.2
Angola 19.0
Guyana 18.6
Burkina Faso 18.0
Eritrea 17.8
Namibia 17.2
Rwanda 17.1
Mexico 16.9
Chad 15.8
Ghana 15.7
Ecuador 15.2
North Korea 15.2
Benin 15.1
Sierra Leone 14.9
Mauritania 14.7
Botswana 14.5
Zimbabwe 14.3
Gabon 13.8
Nicaragua 13.6
French Guiana 13.3
Papua New Guinea 13.0
Swaziland 12.9
Bermuda 12.3
Comoros 12.2
Nigeria 12.2
Cape Verde 11.6
Grenada 11.5
Paraguay 11.5
Barbados 11.3
Togo 10.9
Gambia 10.8
Peru 10.8
Myanmar 10.2
Russia 10.2
Liberia 10.1
Costa Rica 10.0
Nauru 9.8
Bolivia 8.9
Mozambique 8.8
Kazakhstan 8.8
Senegal 8.7
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
Mongolia 8.7
British Virgin Islands 8.6
Cayman Islands 8.4
Seychelles 8.3
Madagascar 8.1
Indonesia 8.1
Mali 8.0
Pakistan 7.8
Moldova 7.5
Kiribati 7.3
Guadeloupe 7.0
Haiti 6.9
Timor-Leste 6.9
Anguilla 6.8
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
Lithuania 6.6
Uruguay 5.9
Philippines 5.4
Ukraine 5.2
Estonia 5.2
Cuba 5.0
Belarus 4.9
Thailand 4.8
Suriname 4.6
Laos 4.6
Georgia 4.3
Martinique 4.2

And ............................................
The United States 4.2 !!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL (109) of the countries above the USA have 100% gun bans.
It might be of interest to note that SWITZERLAND is not shown on this list because it has no statistically significant occurrance of homicide!

Interestingly, Switzerland's government requires that every adult male:
1. Be issued a firearm.
2. Be trained in its use.
3. Maintain marksman qualifications .... yearly.

The Anti's response was:

My quote 'ALL (109) of the countries above the USA have 100% gun bans'.

Anti - "Jim has already pointed out that Jamaica does not have a gun ban. I know neither Honduras nor Cuba have gun bans. Can you show me just 5 (out of the 109 countries) that really DO have a gun ban?"

My quote 'It might be of interest to note that SWITZERLAND is not shown on this list because it has no statistically significant occurrance of homicide'!

Anti - "Actually, Switzerland comes in at .6 homicides per 100K. While that's GREAT, it's hardly 'statistically insignificant' and is still double the rate of Japan or Iceland".

My quote ' Interestingly, Switzerland's government requires that every adult male:
1. Be issued a firearm.
2. Be trained in its use.
3. Maintain marksman qualifications .... yearly.'

Anti - "This is TRUE but, what you failed to mention is that done pursuant to Switzerland's mandatory military service for every adult male and the firearms must be returned when the person's military service ends." :facepalm:
***He is way off base here and I have this point covered.***

My quote - 'As most of these countries have 100% ban on firearms, it is safe to assume that if they didn't, then the murder rate would be even much higher.'

Anti - "Okay, so you've shot yourself in the foot on two counts with this statement. First, by inserting the word 'most' you negate your (untrue) prior statement that ALL these countries have a 100% ban. But more importantly, your statement that murder rates would be 'even much higher' if there wasn't a ban only solidifies the argument gun bans/restrictions decrease murder rates."
I would suggest that, next time, don't resort to some Facebook rehash (which is what your post was). In the meantime, I'll wait to learn of the 5 countries from your list that ACTUALLY have "100% gun bans."

I am back at work today and cannot spend a lot of time researching a smart cohesive response, but I don't want the smug ones to feel as though they came out on top. Can anyone help me out with this so I can focus on work.:o

Dragunov
12-11-2015, 8:05 AM
I'm not trying to be an ***, but you actually DID kinda' shoot yourself in the foot. Not even Russia has a complete gun ban. Actually, acquisition of a legal firearm in Russia, including, most of its former satellite states (which you have listed several), isn't all that difficult. Costa Rica, and Panama do not have gun bans. Brazil, has very strict gun laws, but not an official ban. In the Philippines, you only need to acquire a PTA (Permit to Acquire), a PTC (Permit to Carry) and that can be had with a clean background check, maybe mandatory training, and possibly greasing the palm of the local Constable.

I'm afraid you'll just have to concede defeat here my friend. Anti-gunners aren't stupid. You need to brush up on your research a bit more, I'm afraid.

Well, we can't win 'em all, ay!:cool:

BigBamBoo
12-11-2015, 8:26 AM
Here is a flipp'in novel idea for symbol....how about the NRA patch/sticker!?!?!?!

No matter what gripe people may have with the NRA it is our absolute BEST fight against anti-gun laws. What group do the anti's point to when they whine about not being able to pass anti-gun laws? That alone should have EVERY gun owner in the country signing up.

Just image...if ALL gun owners in this country joined the NRA. Heck, how about 1/4 of the gun owners in the country joined the NRA.

And I would be willing to bet that if EVERY Calguner...your know....all 225,000 members were to join the NRA we could get the NRA to take even a more active roll/fight here in CA.

How many of you that have posted in this thread are NRA members? Just say'in.



.

IrishJoe3
12-11-2015, 8:26 AM
The open carry movement was just a small first step. The equivalent of a gay pride parade. It announced we were not going to back into the shadows and give up our rights quietly, but the goal was not to get sympathy from non-gun owners, just to announce we're here and the are more of us than you thought.

No, it didn't. It announced we were pimply faced posers who needed to be slapped, and that's exactly what happened. Thanks open carry morons, now gun owners are taken less seriously and have a bigger battle to fight. Well done.

jaymz
12-11-2015, 9:07 AM
Show me one shooting range that's on a nice piece of real estate. All of the outdoor ones are in the boonies, the indoor ones are in industrial areas or ghettos.


The Bass Pro in Rancho Cucamonga is on a nice piece of real estate and it's got an indoor range. Not industrial, and definitely not ghetto. WEGC, Lytle Creek and Burro Canyon are all outdoor ranges that aren't what I'd say are in the boonies.

BlueRidge62
12-11-2015, 9:16 AM
No, it didn't. It announced we were pimply faced posers who needed to be slapped, and that's exactly what happened. Thanks open carry morons, now gun owners are taken less seriously and have a bigger battle to fight. Well done.

So true, they walked right into the anti's hands by playing to the sterotype.
" white guys, a little strange socially, possible using a gun to compensate for something"... No wonder it failed.

Now if it had been a few grandmothers and their daughters out there it could have worked.

IrishJoe3
12-11-2015, 9:27 AM
So true, they walked right into the anti's hands by playing to the sterotype.
" white guys, a little strange socially, possible using a gun to compensate for something"... No wonder it failed.

Now if it had been a few grandmothers and their daughters out there it could have worked.

And the really sad thing is they are STILL patting themselves on the back for being 2nd Amendment warriors.

Toolbags.

Kestryll
12-11-2015, 9:32 AM
You want symbols, I'll give you three and I fly them every day.

http://www.calguns.net/images/calguns250.gif
http://www.nrastore.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/300x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/1/21640avlg1.jpg
http://i0.wp.com/cgssa.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/CGSSA-300-px-w-pn.png?resize=300%2C300

BigBamBoo
12-12-2015, 6:23 AM
And once again...when a "common sense" way to help preserve our rights are pointed out......everyone goes silent.



.

Mayor McRifle
12-12-2015, 6:54 AM
And once again...when a "common sense" way to help preserve our rights are pointed out......everyone goes silent.


Personally, I've never been a fan of claiming "victim" status. I prefer a more positive identifier, like the NRA sticker on my truck or the Gadsden flag I fly next to the American flag every day on my house. Not to mention that armbands would seem a bit awkward to me.

skyblue
12-12-2015, 8:10 AM
^^ the morale patch is the new armband.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

AGGRO
12-12-2015, 8:16 AM
My Xmas cards typically show me and mine with weapons.

Old_Bald_Guy
12-12-2015, 8:45 AM
Folks,







We as a group need a symbol, an identifier for our persecuted minority status. Arm bands with some symbol, like the Nazis did with the Jews. The Deleons, Skinners, etc are no better than the Nazis taking out their hatred of us. Ideas?A2


This is a perfect example of why you will never persuade fence-sitters if you don't change your approach. In the eyes of reasoning people with a slight (but not intractable) difference of opinion, this kind of hyperbole makes you appear ignorant and crazy. Do you really think you can have any effect whatsoever by preaching to the choir and pushing away people whose opinions you need to change?

Doheny
12-12-2015, 8:48 AM
This is a perfect example of why you will never persuade fence-sitters if you don't change your approach. In the eyes of reasoning people with a slight (but not intractable) difference of opinion, this kind of hyperbole makes you appear ignorant and crazy. Do you think you can have any effect whatsoever by preaching to the choir and pushing away people whose opinions you need to change?

That A2 dude posts some crazy stuff! :oji:

Old_Bald_Guy
12-12-2015, 8:50 AM
Apparently so.

Can'thavenuthingood
12-12-2015, 9:00 AM
I have seven of these NRA sticker cards on hand, probably no better known symbol out there for gun rights.

PM your address and Ill send you one of the cards with 2 stickers to put on your vehicle.
No charge, I'll pay the stamp and envelope, you just have to stick it to your window.
First come first serve.
There is an inside sticker and an outside sticker on each card.

I received them FREE with my membership, hence they are FREE to you, just use them.
One card per person.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/5QcAAOSwI-BWO8ZG/s-l500.jpg


Folks are selling these on ebay for $4.50 to $5.50 per card.

Don't sell it, wear it.

I'll sweeten it up for you to take action.
I'll include a CGN oval sticke (http://www.gunsr4.us/collections/stickers)r FREE, with or without border, with each NRA card, your choice.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1026/3815/products/Oval_1_large.jpg?v=1449769669 (http://www.gunsr4.us/collections/stickers)

Naturally this is limited to seven CGN stickers (http://www.gunsr4.us/collections/stickers).


There are 1,052 views at time of this edit, 10:39 am.

Vick

CitaDeL
12-12-2015, 9:54 AM
No, it didn't. It announced we were pimply faced posers who needed to be slapped, and that's exactly what happened. Thanks open carry morons, now gun owners are taken less seriously and have a bigger battle to fight. Well done.

If open carriers were not taken seriously, why did the legislature pass a bill to deal with them? (And in spite of law enforcement warnings not to, also jeopardized the carry license stalemate California sheriffs wanted to maintain.)

ScottyXbones
12-12-2015, 10:33 AM
A couple of you are saying "who cares" in CA. That's the point of the campaign, no one cares right now and that's the problem. Why should they care? One in 5 Californians own a gun (that we know about), that's a LOT of people that have an interest at one level or another, in guns. In addition, the media is calling for more gun control and most people (maybe just my opinion here), gun owners or not, are clueless to what the laws actually are but would support more gun laws.

The goal of the campaign would be to initiate conversations, without the intimidating presence of an actual firearm. While open carry was more for shock value, an armband with "#CA2" or "#NoBear" or something like that would be more of a viral marketing campaign. The goal to have the public discover a short, simple set of truths about gun owners in CA.

Example (with made up stats)
1. One in 5 Californians own a gun for self defense
2. 99.999876% of CA gun owners are good, law-abiding people like you and me
3. The way you hold a gun can make you a felon (link to sbr note, pistol grip on rifle, etc)
4. CA will only allow enough bullets to defend yourself on avg against 2 attackers. 78.6% of violent crimes had 3 or more assailants.
5. Through a series of small "common sense" restrictions, CA has banned all modern handguns designed after the 1990's. Imagine only using a computer built in 1990. Now consider you're relying on that machine to save your life.


Ok that's a bit campy, but you get the idea. It's not going to turn an anti-gun flaming liberal into a 2A supporter, but it would give John Q Public an small semblance of truth: gun control in CA has already gone far beyond what anyone would consider "reasonable"

At the end, link to pro-2A organizations as a way to help or at least stay informed. Thoughts?


Footnote: Everyone already knows what an NRA sticker is. It doesn't encourage any questions, they already think NRA = gun nut, move on.

Can'thavenuthingood
12-12-2015, 10:59 AM
Footnote: Everyone already knows what an NRA sticker is. It doesn't encourage any questions, they aready think NRA = gun nut, move on.

That statement is an 'All or nothing' line of thought.
Reality is it takes many fronts or modes to elicit attention and provoke thought.

Look at all the threads and posts here concerned about panic buying, we ought to be encouraging and supporting the so called panic buying. Which I prefer to think of it as the first time buyers alerting themselves to the fact that the police cannot protect them and their families so they are taking action to do so themselves, just in case, a little insurance. Their comfort zone is being encroached and they can finally see it.

Instead of grumbling about it Calgunners ought to be out there encouraging, supporting, training and recruiting.
This type of thread is nothing new here, we were going through this years ago trying to get folks out to support the gun show booths which have all pretty much evaporated due to lack of participation.

Whether its an armband, a sticker, a patch or chalk writing on a sidewalk its all geared toward the same end and that is to get as many folks interested enough to take action.
Oddly enough its taking a socialist President to do that for us.

A war is fought with many weapons.

Vick

LBDamned
12-12-2015, 12:55 PM
In CA... A patch with a rainbow colored pot leaf and an AR underneath it with some slogan favoring sanctuary cities...

This would unite the entire state.

/Thread

LBDamned
12-12-2015, 12:57 PM
As I was driving to work the other day, I saw a lifted pickup (or SUV) with a CGN sticker on it. I ordered one the same day.

Did you get 4WD or 2WD?

LBDamned
12-12-2015, 1:02 PM
*snip for brevity

I was watching an episode of Lockup the other night where a normal guy from California was caught with an assault weapon he thought was legal. Not a gang member, no tattoos, just a guy. Now he's someone's prison. ...

Just curious... What does tattoos have to do with it?...

wpage
12-12-2015, 1:10 PM
This...

LBDamned
12-12-2015, 1:16 PM
I have seven of these NRA sticker cards on hand, probably no better known symbol out there for gun rights.

PM your address and Ill send you one of the cards with 2 stickers to put on your vehicle.
No charge, I'll pay the stamp and envelope, you just have to stick it to your window.
First come first serve.
There is an inside sticker and an outside sticker on each card.

I received them FREE with my membership, hence they are FREE to you, just use them.
One card per person.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/5QcAAOSwI-BWO8ZG/s-l500.jpg


Folks are selling these on ebay for $4.50 to $5.50 per card.

Don't sell it, wear it.

I'll sweeten it up for you to take action.
I'll include a CGN oval sticke (http://www.gunsr4.us/collections/stickers)r FREE, with or without border, with each NRA card, your choice.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1026/3815/products/Oval_1_large.jpg?v=1449769669 (http://www.gunsr4.us/collections/stickers)

Naturally this is limited to seven CGN stickers (http://www.gunsr4.us/collections/stickers).


There are 1,052 views at time of this edit, 10:39 am.

Vick

I'd love to rock a CGN sticker - but my daily driver is a company issued vehicle (with logo) and even though the foundation and spirit of the company is die hard all American, I don't want to put stickers on their property... and my personal car is highly modified (including body work and complete debadge of OEM logos - want to keep it clean)...

If I had room for a third vehicle, I'd eagerly display the CGN!!! sadly, I doubt I'll have the third vehicle untill I move out of state :(

Mayor McRifle
12-12-2015, 2:24 PM
Footnote: Everyone already knows what an NRA sticker is. It doesn't encourage any questions, they already think NRA = gun nut, move on.

Assuming that's true, it would change their attitude about the NRA and gun owners in general if every gun owner in California had an NRA sticker on his or her car. Most Antis have no idea how many gun owners they actually know, and most of those in-the-closet gun owners are already thought of as reasonable, "normal" people by the Antis. I have no doubt that if all gun owners in this state came out of hiding, the Antis' attitude about gun owners in general would change dramatically.

duckman45
12-12-2015, 2:54 PM
Did you get 4WD or 2WD?

Ha!

I guess properly parsing a sentence properly before posting is in order.

It's definitely an AWD sticker.

LBDamned
12-12-2015, 3:13 PM
Ha!

I guess properly parsing a sentence properly before posting is in order.

It's definitely an AWD sticker.

Nice! Kick those antis azz with AWD CGN stickers!!! :D