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View Full Version : Car searched at gun point, what are your rights?


savasyn
06-27-2008, 9:19 AM
No, this did NOT happen to me, but here's the story:
Last night my boss's wife called him and asked him to come home immediately as there were cops with drawn weapons all through their neighborhood. He went over there but the cops had the area blocked off and they had their shotguns out. They said they weren't letting anyone in as there had been a shooting and the suspect was still at large.

As he waited for them to clear out, he watched them stop and search every car leaving the neighborhood at gunpoint. I certainly understand why they would do this. What if the suspect had forced somebody to drive them out of the blocked in area or whatever. My question is, what are your rights here? I doubt they are going to go for the old, "I don't consent to a search" bit under these conditions. Obviously they have PC for doing what they are doing.

Given those circumstances, it seems best to let them do their thing and get the hell out of there, but what would you do if you were trying to leave an area like that?

Brooke
06-27-2008, 9:31 AM
This is what they call an "exigent circumstance". Given PC and a public safety issue, the warrant requirement is out the window and the ruling principle is "reasonableness".

What would I do? Exactly as I was told. Seriously, everybody's pumped and on edge. Not a time to hassle them or try to make a point.

RAD-CDPII
06-27-2008, 3:13 PM
The last thing I'm going to do is give a LEO with a drawn weapon a hard time, especially if he is under stress. "Yes officer, check what ever you want to, take your time"

SkyStorm82
06-27-2008, 3:25 PM
Oh this thread is going to go well.

grammaton76
06-27-2008, 3:36 PM
There's a lot of legalese one could get into, but your rights boil down to this:

You have the right to comply and thus not get shot.

You have the right to file a lawsuit later on, if you find that their actions were improper.

Those are your 'realistic' rights, in that situation.

BillCA
06-27-2008, 4:19 PM
There's a lot of legalese one could get into, but your rights boil down to this:

You have the right to comply and thus not get shot.

You have the right to file a lawsuit later on, if you find that their actions were improper.

Those are your 'realistic' rights, in that situation.

+1 and I'll add that you move cautiously and deliberately. That is not the time to make sudden movements.

If it were me trying to leave the area where some gunman was loose, I'd just comply with the officers.

Police searching for an escapee can look inside the passenger compartment and the trunk as these are places where they are likely to find a person. Likewise, in a camper-shelled pick-up, they can look inside.

Searches into areas where a person cannot fit would be beyond the scope of their powers. But the time to object is later, after they have a dangerous suspect in custody.

eta34
06-27-2008, 4:44 PM
There's a lot of legalese one could get into, but your rights boil down to this:

You have the right to comply and thus not get shot.

You have the right to file a lawsuit later on, if you find that their actions were improper.

Those are your 'realistic' rights, in that situation.

I agree 100%. That is not the time to flex your muscles. IF you were wronged, absolutely do something about it later.

SkyStorm82
06-27-2008, 4:48 PM
If your house should end up being within a containment, the best thing to do is stay home, lock everything up and keep a look out.

Savages have a habit of jumping walls and cutting through peoples back yards.

We had a crap load of people help us catch a car thief that bailed on us before. Between those holding the containment, those looking for him and all the homeowners, homie had no where to hide. I loved all the extra sets of eyes.

Matt C
06-27-2008, 4:50 PM
They can look in my car through the window, I won't open the trunk, sorry. You can stick a gun in face all day long and scream at me, I'll probably just yawn at you.

CitaDeL
06-27-2008, 6:55 PM
They can look in my car through the window, I won't open the truck, sorry. You can stick a gun in face all day long and scream at me, I'll probably just yawn at you.

+1
Exigent circumstances are not a "pause" button for our rights. If they want to look, they can look without touching, opening, grabbing or unnecessarily detaining an individual.

Rob454
06-27-2008, 7:08 PM
We had that incident here at my house. i got a knock on the door at 11 PM two cops told me there is a criminal in the area. They wanted to check the house and my yard. I asked for their badge # and names called the local PD. they confirmed that they were actual LEO so i let them in. they searched the yard. I dont have a problem letting them search my car if theire looking for a dangerous person.
Rob

Fate
06-27-2008, 7:39 PM
They wanted to check your house?

"Uh, sorry, no. Any bad guy that shows up in there is mine." :D

jdberger
06-27-2008, 8:48 PM
+1
Exigent circumstances are not a "pause" button for our rights. If they want to look, they can look without touching, opening, grabbing or unnecessarily detaining an individual.

Really? I could be wrong, but I think that they are.

Harrison_Bergeron
06-27-2008, 9:07 PM
How does PC work in this case? If they had reports that "someone" was shooting and nothing else, they would likely be looking for possible suspects, as in people with guns. What would keep the mandatory stop from falling under PC, that it was stationary, or that being in the vicinity of a crime is not enough to be suspected?

BillCA
06-28-2008, 12:26 PM
How does PC work in this case? If they had reports that "someone" was shooting and nothing else, they would likely be looking for possible suspects, as in people with guns. What would keep the mandatory stop from falling under PC, that it was stationary, or that being in the vicinity of a crime is not enough to be suspected?

The situation you describe is significantly different than the OP.

In the OP's post, the police knew a crime was comitted and had a suspect (at least a description or visual sighting) who was within a police perimeter. In this case, officers could stop motorists leaving the scene for a cursory check of the passenger compartment and potentially check the trunks (or other hiding places) for the suspect.

In your post, you describe a situation where police are not sure an actual crime has been committed nor do they have a suspect description. In that case, they have to rely on the Mark-I eyeball and stereo acoustical receptors. In this case, vehicles leaving the scene in a normal (legal) fashion are not stoppable without PC.

Also, to be clear, WRT the OP, the officer's visual search of the vehicle's backseat & floor through the windows does not require PC or a warrant. In exigent circumstances, opening the trunk for a brief visual search to show no one hiding in there would pass too.

An officer noting extreme nervousness of the driver, what appears to be a heavily loaded trunk or other observations may give the officers PC to perform a much more thorough search.

Harrison_Bergeron
06-28-2008, 4:15 PM
OP didn't say anything about a suspect description, just that there was a shooting, and police were looking for the culprit.

RomanDad
06-28-2008, 4:22 PM
They can open the trunk for the limited purpose of searching for a hidden dangerous suspect... If they find you have 300 pounds of crack cocaine back there, you should go buy a lottery ticket, because they wont be able to charge you with it... (Although you will lose your 300 pounds of crack, which would kinda suck).

If you say you refuse without a warrant, they're going to tell you to pull over to the side of the road, get out of the vehicle and wait for a warrant to get there.... "And by the way, its been a busy night, it may take about 7 or 8 hours to get it.... Try to get comfortable..."

You can be a jerk....

They can be jerks too...

hooookup
06-28-2008, 4:25 PM
In a situation like that, i'd have no problem with them searching my vehicle. I have nothing to hide.

Fate
06-28-2008, 5:11 PM
If you say you refuse without a warrant, they're going to tell you to pull over to the side of the road, get out of the vehicle and wait for a warrant to get there.... "And by the way, its been a busy night, it may take about 7 or 8 hours to get it.... Try to get comfortable..."

You can be a jerk....

They can be jerks too...
7-8 hours would be detainment. 8 hours? I'd sit.

Then sue. Especially if no warrant materialized.

DPC
06-28-2008, 5:59 PM
What happens if you are transporting weapons legally locked container ect. Do they just confiscate your weapons because someone else is an idiot.

an actual gun
06-28-2008, 6:33 PM
I'd be polite and reasonable, but I wouldn't be relinquishing any of my rights. They're going to have to do what they're going to have to do regardless of what I say, therefore I might as well stand firm on my rights. A lot of "I do not consent to a search, I do not consent to any of this."

That doesn't mean stand there and stare at them, flick a cigarette butt, whip off the shades real quick and go all out toe-to-toe with them. But one can be polite and reasonable. And simply affirming your rights and stating your objection to illegality or misconduct is absolutely not infringing upon their work.

Look, I don't kowtow to the fear mongering and any self-importance or supreme authority these officers may be illicit with. They're trying to catch a thug, they can do so without me--I have nothing to do with it, I'm just passing through or trying to get to my home.

We are all equal, we all have rights, I will respect theirs and hope they respect mine. If not, a couple nights in jail later, they're going to have some lawsuits to deal with. Simple as that.

As for the gun point aspect, do what you have to. That's not a time for playing tough guy. In fact there's never a time for playing tough guy. Just stand firm on your rights, keep the hands in plain sight, and comply peaceably to the fullest extent you can without violating your own rights.

NIB
06-28-2008, 6:58 PM
Was this in Lynwood by any chance?:D