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View Full Version : Refused PPT at Turners Pasadena on XDM


xray30
01-10-2015, 4:58 PM
Went into Turner's Pasadena and they would not do a PPT on a XDM saying that the mags aren't actual 10rds, but blocked to 10rds. We asked to speak to a manager, but the lady said she was the manager. I explained to her that I did this transfer in that store in the 1st place and there wasn't a problem. I have been a long time customer of that particular store because I have always been treated well, but I guess that will change.

Anyone else have recent problems there?

4Defense
01-10-2015, 5:22 PM
Their store, their rules. Don't like it, open one then you can make any rules you want.

And eventually down the line, some customer will be like you and you will be like Turners. The world is round.

cindynles
01-10-2015, 5:34 PM
Their store, their rules. Don't like it, open one then you can make any rules you want.

And eventually down the line, some customer will be like you and you will be like Turners. The world is round.

No, FFL holders are required by LAW to perform PPT's. If they don't like the law they can give up their FFL.

OP, I would file a formal complaint with the DOJ and write a letter to Turners corporate.

BigPimping
01-10-2015, 5:38 PM
I complained to DOJ about the store policies regarding PPT of one store near me. If they did that, I would call the DOJ.

CSACANNONEER
01-10-2015, 5:39 PM
Do the transfer without any mags involved. The buyer can bring his legally blocked 10 round mags in to preform the safe handling demo if he is not exempt.

But, I would suggest just finding a good shop to do business with. The last time I tried to do a PPT there, after an hour and our number being called twice (but told they couldn't help us until the two PPTs before us were done) I talked the seller into going all the way to Addax. We were in and out in under 10 minutes without all the Turner's in house paperwork and BS. The buyer was back in Pasadena and home before we would have started the PPT at Turners.

lorax3
01-10-2015, 5:41 PM
Went into Turner's Pasadena and they would not do a PPT on a XDM saying that the mags aren't actual 10rds, but blocked to 10rds.

Just to be clear, HOW were the magazines blocked to 10 rounds?

jcwatchdog
01-10-2015, 5:43 PM
Went into Turner's Pasadena and they would not do a PPT on a XDM saying that the mags aren't actual 10rds, but blocked to 10rds. We asked to speak to a manager, but the lady said she was the manager. I explained to her that I did this transfer in that store in the 1st place and there wasn't a problem. I have been a long time customer of that particular store because I have always been treated well, but I guess that will change.

Anyone else have recent problems there?


So I guess they can't ppt transfer guns like the CZ p09, which don't have 10 round magazines available? I always heard bad things about them, although that brand store is not around Sac. Yeah it is their store and their rules, but when they make up random stupid rules not based on any law, it's kind of stupid. In fact, just a quick check online shows they sell blocked mags:

http://www.turners.com/thordsen-ubbt/thordsen-ultimate-bullet-button-tool-10-30-pmag-252781

CSACANNONEER
01-10-2015, 5:47 PM
BTW, if the FFL feels the transfer is not legal, they are required to NOT complete it. So, calling DOJ won't do anything if that was her logic behind refusing to do the transfer.

jcwatchdog
01-10-2015, 5:49 PM
Just to be clear, HOW were the magazines blocked to 10 rounds?


If he transferred the gun there originally, they didn't seem to have an issue with the mags.

dpr
01-10-2015, 5:50 PM
It's probably best to deal with some one who actually wants your business and leave the mags out next time.

lorax3
01-10-2015, 5:55 PM
If he transferred the gun there originally, they didn't seem to have an issue with the mags.

We don't know that. Lots of reasons why transfer #1 could have gone without issue.

Just trying to cover all his bases. Turners is probably wrong, but they have gotten better over the years.

Rainbow Warrior
01-10-2015, 6:15 PM
Their store, their rules. Don't like it, open one then you can make any rules you want.

And eventually down the line, some customer will be like you and you will be like Turners. The world is round.

Nope not helpful at all, so why bother ? :confused:

CK_32
01-10-2015, 7:05 PM
Blame the ATF.

My FFL was told to confiscate anything that has a high cap body. Blocked or not. Luckily he said he wasn't about to take my 10/30.

Rickrock1
01-10-2015, 7:09 PM
No, FFL holders are required by LAW to perform PPT's. If they don't like the law they can give up their FFL.

OP, I would file a formal complaint with the DOJ and write a letter to Turners corporate.

^^^^+1

sharxbyte
01-10-2015, 7:10 PM
Do the PPT without the magazines, then sell the mags separately?

Librarian
01-10-2015, 7:21 PM
Blame the ATF.

My FFL was told to confiscate anything that has a high cap body. Blocked or not. Luckily he said he wasn't about to take my 10/30.

Since the ATF doesn't care about CA magazine law, I suggest blaming someone else.

And, as FFLs are not in law enforcement, I kind of doubt CA-DOJ offered that advice, either.

afteractionreport
01-10-2015, 7:24 PM
Post in the turners subforum...they usually are good at responding to legitimate complaints....SH turners know wtf they are doing and the laws in Ca...give em a chance

stitch_paradox
01-10-2015, 7:27 PM
Blame the ATF.

My FFL was told to confiscate anything that has a high cap body. Blocked or not. Luckily he said he wasn't about to take my 10/30.

Tell us whos this FFL so we can avoid it like plague.

M1NM
01-10-2015, 7:33 PM
Do the PPT without the magazines, then sell the mags separately?
Just take the gun in to transfer. Let the buyer leave the mags in his car. Then he can bring one back with him to do the safe handling demo.

I Swan
01-10-2015, 7:34 PM
According to one CGNer attacking me on another thread Turners does not have bad rep with PPT or do what they can to discourage PPT. This is based on a whole whopping 2 PPT's he has done at Reseda Turners. It has gotten to point where I refuse to PPT there which means I usually refuse to buy at Turners as well.

I've heard it has improved a little though. Still don't want to fill out reams of extra unnecessary Turners paperwork anyhow.

springfield4ever
01-10-2015, 7:49 PM
I was refused a PPT at Turner's in Chino Hills for the exact same reason....Turner's in Rancho Cucamonga actually loaded the mags during another ppt with snap caps to confirm blocked to 10rds....Turner's in San Bernardino never had a problem. Still prefer Ammo Bros and love that they are expanding with new stores!

Garv
01-10-2015, 7:57 PM
+1 to send a message to Turners in the Vendor forum below.

Turners Reseda, many issues there are LA City problems such as 1 in 30 days applies to all handgun transactions, including PPT, so I will avoid them not because they are Turners, but because they are a Turners in LA.

I get good service at Turners Torrance

low67vdubinnocal
01-10-2015, 8:02 PM
The last two semi auto used pistols I bought both came with mags higher then this state thought I should own. A s&w model 59 and a Taurus pt 92. During the ten day wait I bought 10 round mags from Midway for the s&w and ebay for the Taurus. Showed up on day 10 with new 10 round mags left store no problems.

bubbala
01-10-2015, 8:09 PM
well.... i did a PPT on a SSE pistol at reseda turners an although it seemed to throw them off at first i
just asked nicely what can we do about these mags.

i had already blocked them at 10 rounds.

the answer seemed to be that they wanted it done permanently.
their suggestion was a couple of drops of super glue on the mag base.
easy to do easy to undo. i was ready to go get some but they did the safety check with the mag the way it was.

it was just quickly put in the buyers pocket never to be seen again.

this site doesn't seem to recognize paragraphs.

still no reason not to double space.:rolleyes:

gogohopper
01-10-2015, 8:09 PM
Their store, their rules. Don't like it, open one then you can make any rules you want.

And eventually down the line, some customer will be like you and you will be like Turners. The world is round.

So sick of this asinine type of comment.

Equipped
01-10-2015, 8:36 PM
I ran into a similar situation at a pawn shop FFL. They wouldn't complete the PPT because my SP-01 mags were 10/18.

I just ended up at a different FFL.

JDay
01-10-2015, 8:51 PM
Blame the ATF.

My FFL was told to confiscate anything that has a high cap body. Blocked or not. Luckily he said he wasn't about to take my 10/30.
Your FFL lied if he said the ATF told him that. No federal "high capacity magazine" ban.

pacrat
01-10-2015, 9:02 PM
Since when is it the purvue of a FFL to function as a watchdog for DOJ as far a mag cap goes?

Just because they aren't allowed to sell standard capacity mags doesn't mean it is illegal for a customer to own them.

N O T F B

essjay
01-10-2015, 9:06 PM
Do the PPT without mags, and then hand over the mags in the parking lot. Seems simple enough to me. What are they going to say? "We can't PPT this firearm, as it has no magazines!"

subrvin
01-10-2015, 9:15 PM
This thread is full of FUD.

ke6guj
01-10-2015, 9:32 PM
Do the PPT without mags, and then hand over the mags in the parking lot. Seems simple enough to me. What are they going to say? "We can't PPT this firearm, as it has no magazines!"
yup, CA law requires that a functional magazine be present to do the required handgun safety demo. no magazine, can't do the demo. if they don't want to do PPTs in the first place, they'll probably jump on that as a reason to kick you out the door.

TurboS600
01-10-2015, 9:47 PM
FUD and poor customer service being had at Turner's? :shrug:

I am SHOCKED! SHOCKED I say!

eviioiive
01-10-2015, 10:17 PM
Damn gun store employees trying to stay out of trouble

pjsig
01-10-2015, 10:55 PM
Turners has at least 7 stores, and each store has at least 12 people in the gun dept. Do not expect every person in the gun store to know every law, and sometimes none of them will know a certain law. Seems they err on the side of caution.

Anyhow, with the usual wait at Turners (because they have great deals) why would you bother with a PPT there. Might as well give that business to a local gun shop instead. Turners is about high volume.

Frankly, what I like about Turners is that they have great deals. What other Southern California store gets consistent gun deals?

Justintoxicated
01-10-2015, 11:10 PM
maybe the mags were not permanent enough?

stitchnicklas
01-10-2015, 11:43 PM
never do ppt at turners....

they are complete turnips when it comes to ppt's


turnip= substitute word that prevents ban hammer

xray30
01-11-2015, 3:41 AM
According to CA law, you need to have a mag present to do the safe handling demonstration. The mags were blocked with MAGBLOCKS and then floor plates sealed with epoxy. The issue is that She didn't even look at them. She simply said that they are not 10rders. I told her that I initially did the transfer there and have been going there for years. She said that the other salespeople/managers didn't know what they were doing. I could have easily gone over to the rack and pointed out the pmag 10/30 mags they sell, but I just left and will take my future business somewhere else from now on until management there changes.

Geetarguy
01-11-2015, 7:11 AM
What are they going to say? "We can't PPT this firearm, as it has no magazines!"

After being dressed down like a common criminal (for having 15 round magazines) in front of the whole store....I was told EXACTLY this at Turners in Rancho Cucamonga yesterday when trying to do a PPT. Girl came out from the back and practically yelled, "These are 15 rounds magazines...they are illegal... and you need to take these out of this store right now!!!" She told my buyer he would have to return with 10 rd magazines or he would NOT be able to pick up the gun. Also told him that he would not be able to sign an affidavit that he owned a safe and would need to purchase a new lock. (((On a side note....I purchased this gun from a fellow calgunner in 2012...did the transfer, in 2012, at the SAME Turners....with the SAME magazines.....NO PROBLEMS!!!)))

ke6guj
01-11-2015, 7:22 AM
Anyhow, with the usual wait at Turners (because they have great deals) why would you bother with a PPT there. Might as well give that business to a local gun shop instead. Turners is about high volume.


because Turners needs to do their "fair share" of PPTs. it isn't fair to push Turner's share of PPTs to other FFLs because Turners's makes it difficult to do a PPT.

and most shops don't want the PPT business in the first place, so you aren't doing them a favor by "giving" them PPT business that should have been done at Turners.


and as for why many people want to use Turners for PPTs, perhaps because Turners had better hours than most other gunshops. Open 7 days a week, open til 8 or so most days. many other shops are open 10-5, Mon-Fri or Tues-Sat.

essjay
01-11-2015, 7:36 AM
yup, CA law requires that a functional magazine be present to do the required handgun safety demo. no magazine, can't do the demo. if they don't want to do PPTs in the first place, they'll probably jump on that as a reason to kick you out the door.

Can't the safe handling demo be done at the time of pickup, rather than the time of the transfer, though? Or the buyer could bring a mag with him, and just say that he already has his own mags?

ke6guj
01-11-2015, 7:51 AM
Can't the safe handling demo be done at the time of pickup, rather than the time of the transfer, though? Or the buyer could bring a mag with him, and just say that he already has his own mags?
sure, the PC just says that it can'tbe delivered unless the HSD has been completed, it doesn't say WHEN the demo must be performed. but what if they take the PPT in with the understanding that the buyer will bring a mag on pickup and the buyer doesn't? Turner's really can't unwind the deal unless they want to DROS the seller. same goes for PoR documents, many dealers that will allow you to bring PoR on pickup of a store purchase won't for a PPT. reason being, if you don't bring PoR on a store purchase, they just cancel the DROS and charge you a restocking fee. they can't do that for a PPT.

So, I understand why a store won't start a PPT unless they have everything needed to complete it.

Sean D
01-11-2015, 7:51 AM
Pasadena turners sucks especially the *** with long hair. Last time I did a ppt nothing but a pain in the ***

Michael Ehline
01-11-2015, 8:11 AM
There is no law that requires them to be ten rounders that I could find. If you are in lawful possession, you lawfully possess them. Period. I kept all my standard cap mags and have been shooting since I was at least 10. If I went there and they pulled that, I would file a civil rights actions, under the Price case, claiming that Turners is acting under color of law and official right as a "state actor." Turners is a joke,

essjay
01-11-2015, 9:18 AM
sure, the PC just says that it can'tbe delivered unless the HSD has been completed, it doesn't say WHEN the demo must be performed. but what if they take the PPT in with the understanding that the buyer will bring a mag on pickup and the buyer doesn't?

If you're giving the buyer the mags in the parking lot, he should know that they're going to be used when he comes back to do the safe-handling demo and pickup. If he doesn't bring them, he can always come back later to do the pickup. And if he's bringing what they see as his own mags, I don't see why the store employee would check them to verify the amount of rounds that they hold.

jcwatchdog
01-11-2015, 12:37 PM
Blame the ATF.

My FFL was told to confiscate anything that has a high cap body. Blocked or not. Luckily he said he wasn't about to take my 10/30.



Why would the ATF care? There are only a handful of stupid states limiting mag capacity, most states are normal. And there are no federal laws for any states at all for mag capacity.

yzErnie
01-11-2015, 4:03 PM
Blame the ATF.

My FFL was told to confiscate anything that has a high cap body. Blocked or not.
WHAT????? The BATFE does not give two hoots about this state's mag capacity rules. That is some horrendous FUD.

bubbapug1
01-11-2015, 4:11 PM
It's turners. Avoid turners. Don't buy ANYTHING from any turners, fishing tackle, ammo, nothing.

Turners knowingly makes PPT's as uncomfortable as possible. Award them for their policy by not shopping there....ever.

yzErnie
01-11-2015, 4:13 PM
Just to be clear, HOW were the magazines blocked to 10 rounds?
maybe the mags were not permanent enough?
This is what I was thinking. The mag must have a permanent mod to 10rds. Even if the mag is blocked to 10rds, if the floor plate is still detachable then it would be a no go.

lorax3
01-11-2015, 4:15 PM
Turners knowingly makes PPT's as uncomfortable as possible.

Really? Turners is actually my preferred place for PPTs unless it is something I know a counter person will think is "illegal". Although I have only used 2 Turners locations for PPTs, I imagine it can vary greatly based on staff.

Unlike like mom and pop shops, the counter folks at Turner's are paid by the hour and don't care about the company bottom line so a PPT is a good 30 minutes of 'wasted time'.

CSACANNONEER
01-11-2015, 4:31 PM
I have done business at at least 5 Turner's locations and the only one I haven't had issues with is in Oxnard. I will refuse to buy or sell a firearm if the other party insists on any Turner's and, I try my hardest not to buy anything from Turner's either. 2-3 times a year, I might end up at the Oxnard store to look around but, that's about it.

subrvin
01-11-2015, 4:35 PM
Went into Turner's Pasadena and they would not do a PPT on a XDM saying that the mags aren't actual 10rds, but blocked to 10rds. We asked to speak to a manager, but the lady said she was the manager. I explained to her that I did this transfer in that store in the 1st place and there wasn't a problem. I have been a long time customer of that particular store because I have always been treated well, but I guess that will change.

Anyone else have recent problems there?

I have done at least 20 PPT's at the Turners in Pasadena, I've had just about every employee help me with PPT's and have never had a problem. each taking about 20 minutes depending on how busy the store is. However I've seen other people with attitudes, acting like they know everything and disrespecting the store employees. If anyone is going into a Turners store with preconceived notions that all Turners employees are idiots, then expect to be treated the same way. I can't speak of what actually took place and what was said, but I hope the OP gets some resolution to his issues.

Just remember,

You can attract more flies with honey than with sheit.

teetsjones
01-11-2015, 5:58 PM
I have done at least 20 PPT's at the Turners in Pasadena, I've had just about every employee help me with PPT's and have never had a problem. each taking about 20 minutes depending on how busy the store is. However I've seen other people with attitudes, acting like they know everything and disrespecting the store employees. If anyone is going into a Turners store with preconceived notions that all Turners employees are idiots, then expect to be treated the same way. I can't speak of what actually took place and what was said, but I hope the OP gets some resolution to his issues.

Just remember,

You can attract more flies with honey than with sheit.

I think you mean vinegar, flies like sheit as much as honey.:)

subrvin
01-11-2015, 6:14 PM
I think you mean vinegar, flies like sheit as much as honey.:)

Touche' brother. Haha

xray30
01-11-2015, 7:23 PM
No need for me to call corp or anything else. I didn't give a bad attitude etc either. I simply told them that they lost 2 customers. But now finding out that she is not even a manager pisses me off.

We took our business to Gun World in Burbank and they were more than happy to help us. They even did it with a smile.

bsg
01-11-2015, 7:50 PM
I think you mean vinegar, flies like sheit as much as honey.:)

you nailed it.

HKMadness
01-11-2015, 8:12 PM
never do ppt at turners....

they are complete turnips when it comes to ppt's


turnip= substitute word that prevents ban hammer

That's exactly what they want. They (and other ffl's) have been known to try to discourage people coming to them for ppt's and prefer everyone to do ppt's somewhere else as there is no money to be made on them. How many times have they made someone wait for 2 hours for a ppt?

They've supposedly been getting better about this, idk.

I Swan
01-11-2015, 8:48 PM
No need for me to call corp or anything else. I didn't give a bad attitude etc either. I simply told them that they lost 2 customers. But now finding out that she is not even a manager pisses me off.

We took our business to Gun World in Burbank and they were more than happy to help us. They even did it with a smile.

That is quite sad when a PPT goes smoother at Gun World than at Turners.

pjsig
01-11-2015, 9:02 PM
because Turners needs to do their "fair share" of PPTs. it isn't fair to push Turner's share of PPTs to other FFLs because Turners's makes it difficult to do a PPT.

and most shops don't want the PPT business in the first place, so you aren't doing them a favor by "giving" them PPT business that should have been done at Turners.


and as for why many people want to use Turners for PPTs, perhaps because Turners had better hours than most other gunshops. Open 7 days a week, open til 8 or so most days. many other shops are open 10-5, Mon-Fri or Tues-Sat.

I see what you're saying, however for PPT for the smaller shops - but I can think of a few shops that would welcome a PPT just because it gets the person into the store and will probably buy something else while in there.

JoshuaS
01-11-2015, 9:14 PM
I personally like Turners, but have never done a PPT there.

My experience has been that EVERY gunshop has a little bit of FUD about it. The thing is I have gotten along with every single sale rep or FFL I have dealt with. And I have even been able to correct a few of them on some particulars. I find being very friendly about it and matter of fact garners better respect than being in your face about the error.

Some of the sales reps know quite a bit about guns, more than the complaints on this forum give them credit. Conversely, some of those also know the least about the law. You can't fault them for erring on the side of caution rather than risking their FFL, or in the case of an employee his job.

Maybe one should look toward a shop that caters to those that are doing things that requires more particular knowledge of the law when dealing with 10/30 mags and the like.

I don't know what exactly happened with you. The manager, Michelle right? She seemed nice enough to me. Maybe you acted with every courtesy and she was simply wrong, I don't know. Only you know. But if not, maybe a better approach would be in order. Tact and calmness goes a long way to greasing the wheels.

The Gleam
01-11-2015, 9:18 PM
Blame the ATF.

My FFL was told to confiscate anything that has a high cap body. Blocked or not. Luckily he said he wasn't about to take my 10/30.

No, and no. I can walk into at least 6 gun stores within a boogar fling of one of the most anti-gun cities in this state, and they ALL sell 10/20 and 10/30 mags without issue.

ATF could not care less.

The Gleam
01-11-2015, 9:20 PM
According to one CGNer attacking me on another thread Turners does not have bad rep with PPT or do what they can to discourage PPT. This is based on a whole whopping 2 PPT's he has done at Reseda Turners. It has gotten to point where I refuse to PPT there which means I usually refuse to buy at Turners as well.

I've heard it has improved a little though. Still don't want to fill out reams of extra unnecessary Turners paperwork anyhow.

Reseda Turner's is the Turner's that makes all the other people working at all the other Turner's say - "Turner's sucks".

I Swan
01-11-2015, 10:07 PM
Pretty much. I could tell you some horror stories about that place. They seemed to have been improving but on my last two visits they had hired another penis and a real bastard asst manager seems to be back. About 2 years ago I had purchased 2 guns there without issue. Had a terrible time in 2006.

I won't buy ammo there anyhow due to LA laws and would never attempt a PPT there.

low67vdubinnocal
01-11-2015, 10:49 PM
It seems to me if Turners sells blocked 10/30 magazines and feels it is legal to do so it should not be an issue using your own blocked magazine for a PPT .

ham
01-11-2015, 10:57 PM
all the ppts ive done at the kearny store have been great. no issues there.

lorax3
01-11-2015, 11:40 PM
Wow, you must really love wasting precious time and watching mindless paperwork being generated.

How is the process at Turner's any more onerous than the process already is? I don't recall have to fill out any special paperwork.

NiteQwill
01-12-2015, 1:44 AM
Reminds me of a Long Beach Turner's PPT long ago with a LEO buddy.


Friend brings gun to transfer to me (forgets he brought his 17 round mags, too)
Immediately, the store employee starts making a scene about how they are illegal, telling his manager, you can't have them, calling the police... (store was packed, eyeballs on us now...)
Friend discreetly shows him his credentials and informs the employee we are both exempt
We pick up our stuff and do the PPT at another store


:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

I Swan
01-12-2015, 2:03 AM
How is the process at Turner's any more onerous than the process already is? I don't recall have to fill out any special paperwork.

Turners adds their own forms and paperwork to all DROS transactions including PPT which I think even has an extra paper to fill out.

Grey Bearded One
01-12-2015, 3:43 AM
No, FFL holders are required by LAW to perform PPT's. If they don't like the law they can give up their FFL

Required? Wow! In the socialist state of Maryland, when the law was passed requiring a background check on private sales, the dealers association uniformly stated that they would not do any private in-state transfers which put the load onto the state police to do the checks. I've been out of Maryland for a decade so they may have softened their stance by now.