PDA

View Full Version : VP9 vs. P-01


OmegaTrader
01-05-2015, 6:56 AM
Price difference aside. Which one would you rather have? I have the P-01, love it to death, and in the process of getting a PCR and the SP-01. But not sure if I'm missing out on the vp9. Anybody that has both care to chime in?

static2126
01-05-2015, 7:08 AM
Owned the following vp9, p01, ppq, p32p

I prefer them in this order stock ppq, vp9, p320, p01

Tuned (all of my p01 are cwg tuned) I prefer p01, ppq, vp9, p320

Euphoria526
01-05-2015, 7:13 AM
I've ne we shot a vp 9. Don't plan on it as I'm not a huge fan of HK. Let alone the hype of the vp9. I just see it as an HK ppq, whose is unimpressive.
+1 for the p01

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 7:18 AM
You are not missing anything by forgoing the VP9. Sending your P-01 to CGW will get you a great shooting gun. For someone looking to pick between the two you can buy a P-01 from CGW with the Pro package already done fo about $980 shipped.

.45 ACP
01-05-2015, 7:19 AM
Hype. Most VP9s were bought out of SSE hype and now many are listed in the classifieds to flip. It's a decent striker fired pistol nothing more, nothing less.

Euphoria526
01-05-2015, 7:25 AM
Hype. Most VP9s were bought out of SSE hype and now many are listed in the classifieds to flip. It's a decent striker fired pistol nothing more, nothing less.

Aka a newer type of glock nothing special.
Over hyped and under appreciated. Now people think they can sell em for $+1000

OmegaTrader
01-05-2015, 7:41 AM
I've heard that the VP9 trigger is pretty impressive when compared to the P30's, and I've always wanted a P30 but didn't have a SSE slot for it. As for the P-01, I'm happy with its stock configuration, can't imagine how much better a tricked out one would be.

CASwede
01-05-2015, 7:43 AM
The VP9 is a very good handgun if you like striker-fired pistols. I own both the VP9 and the PPQ but out of the two, at least at this early stage of ownership, I prefer the PPQ. This might however change as I get more rounds through the VP9 as well. The possibility of grip customization out of the box is better than any other gun I have shot before, and it does have a good trigger and reset, as well as less muzzle flip compared to the PPQ. I have only put a little over 100 rounds through the VP9 so far, and done so without "dialing in" the grip. I did however do the same with the Walther PPQ, which only has replaceable back straps for grip customization.

Over time, I am sure there will be some customization options for the VP series as well, but it is really quite good as it is straight out of the box.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 7:45 AM
I've heard that the VP9 trigger is pretty impressive when compared to the P30's, and I've always wanted a P30 but didn't have a SSE slot for it. As for the P-01, I'm happy with its stock configuration, can't imagine how much better a tricked out one would be.

Yes, the VP9 trigger is pretty impressive compared to a P30 but that's like saying a car is pretty fast compared to a Corolla. Stock HK triggers are horrendous. It's definitely one of the better striker fired trigger out of the box but once you put it up against a M&P with Apex kit it just feels inadequate. You can still find a M&P 9 for about $500-$600 in the market place.

A tricked out P-01 is amazing.

PS: Anybody who says the VP9 has the best out of box trigger does not know anything about nice triggers ;)

static2126
01-05-2015, 7:47 AM
I sold all my VP9's and P320's as I vastly prefer the PPQ for a striker fired pistol. All of them are better than my beloved Glock 19 though (trigger at least, the Glock 19 is a fine gun)

OmegaTrader
01-05-2015, 7:52 AM
If you guys don't mind me asking, how much is that P-01 trigger package from CGW? Can I assume that the same package can also be fitted on the PCR too?

Erion929
01-05-2015, 7:53 AM
Preferred my PPQ over my friend's VP....and that was at regular prices. One thing is for sure, I would never pay $900-1100 for the VP.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 7:56 AM
If you guys don't mind me asking, how much is that P-01 trigger package from CGW? Can I assume that the same package can also be fitted on the PCR too?

The package is $426 I believe and yes the same thing can be fitted to the PCR.

I know that's a lot of money to spend but I think there comes a time every gun owner has to decide whether he wants to buy more guns or fine tune his existing guns. With SSE over I'm going to spend the first half of the year sending my guns out to get work done. A good friend of my has a P-01 tuned by CGW and the gun is simply amazing.

If I see a 92A1 or Lionheart available for a reasonable price then I'll get it otherwise all the money is going towards upgrading.

static2126
01-05-2015, 8:04 AM
Jack,

If you come up to the SF Bay Area I still have my Lionheart for you. Just check first =)

Op,

I have 4 tuned P01's, I find asides from a Sig P210 and Shield that's all I shoot.

I'm heavily debating selling my PPQ's as the P01 is just so good.

nealo
01-05-2015, 8:11 AM
You are not missing anything by forgoing the VP9. Sending your P-01 to CGW will get you a great shooting gun. For someone looking to pick between the two you can buy a P-01 from CGW with the Pro package already done fo about $980 shipped.Will they still do this? I know the P01 is on roster but is the model CGW ships out the CA model? I thought I missed my chance with them.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 8:12 AM
Jack,

If you come up to the SF Bay Area I still have my Lionheart for you. Just check first =)

Op,

I have 4 tuned P01's, I find asides from a Sig P210 and Shield that's all I shoot.

I'm heavily debating selling my PPQ's as the P01 is just so good.

Awesome...I have a 6mo old nephew that I have not met near the Piedmont/Oakland area so I'm due for a visit soon. Once we can PPT and walk out with the gun on the same day I'll go up and buy it from you.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 8:14 AM
Will they still do this? I know the P01 is on roster but is the model CGW ships out the CA model? I thought I missed my chance with them.

Yes they will. When they sub the 10rd mag for standard mags you will be good to go. The CZ P-01 is on the roster and CGW is indeed selling you a P-01 as it shows on the slide.

EDIT: When CGW sells you a P-01 it is still a CZ P-01 which is on the roster until 1/1/2016. It does not become a CGW P-01.

.45 ACP
01-05-2015, 8:21 AM
Aka a newer type of glock nothing special.
Over hyped and under appreciated. Now people think they can sell em for $+1000

Pretty much. I've told people, if they own a PPQ M1/M2, Gen4 Glock17/19, then there really isn't any reason to get a VP9 and vice-versa.

That being said, if you want a VP9, there are over half a dozen VP9s in the market place being sold for somewhat over MSRP. :D

FlyingPen
01-05-2015, 8:23 AM
From people who have taken them apart, I believe the VP9 seems to be slightly more ruggedly built with beefed up parts than the PPQ. Probably not necessary but nice to know. The slide finger grippers at the end are profoundly ugly but also profoundly useful. They really are advantageous in giving you an excellent grip when your hands are covered in gun oil, sweat, or just mud/water. I don't know why other makers haven't done this, it's legit useful.

I love the P-01, it's extremely well tested and proven. It comes Rough from the factory but with enough break in or a trigger job, it's quite nice. The interior is what it is, it's a little Soviet in finish but it works like a T-55 tank.

Size wise though, the HK is in my opinion, in a different size class from the P-01 which felt much smaller and more concealable.

.45 ACP
01-05-2015, 8:26 AM
The HK is definitely smaller and a better CCW gun (though I don't think either are the best for conceal-ability).

I haven't seen the P-01 broken down, but I have broken down the HK, and can attest to the internal quality of the parts (though the trigger assembly has given people problems on the HK Forums).

FlyingPen
01-05-2015, 8:28 AM
Hmm unless I'm totally mistaken or thinking of the wrong gun, the VP9 definitely feels like a bigger gun than the P-01.

.45 ACP
01-05-2015, 8:29 AM
Ah you're right. For some reason the image of the CZ-75 kept popping into my head.

nealo
01-05-2015, 8:31 AM
Yes they will. When they sub the 10rd mag for standard mags you will be good to go. The CZ P-01 is on the roster and CGW is indeed selling you a P-01 as it shows on the slide.

EDIT: When CGW sells you a P-01 it is still a CZ P-01 which is on the roster until 1/1/2016. It does not become a CGW P-01.Thank you very much. Just making sure.

OmegaTrader
01-05-2015, 8:33 AM
The package is $426 I believe and yes the same thing can be fitted to the PCR.


Thanks for the info. How long was the turn around?

static2126
01-05-2015, 8:35 AM
The P01 is smaller vs a VP9 or PPQ

tuna quesadilla
01-05-2015, 8:39 AM
A slicked up P-01 is an amazing pistol. I've not fired the VP9 but I'd find it hard to believe that it could be quite as good out of the box, or that the aftermarket will even exist for it to come up to the same level as a fully tuned CZ.

Let's wait and see if H&K decides to really flesh out the VP series, or if all they ever do is make a single model.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 8:41 AM
Thanks for the info. How long was the turn around?

I would call David at CGW to confirm because you just never know how much work he has on hand. Davis is a nice guy, if tell him what you are looking for I'm sure he can give you some recommendations.

OmegaTrader
01-05-2015, 8:41 AM
The P01 is smaller vs a VP9 or PPQ

Yeah..but it's not that much smaller though. I've held it once in my LGS, didn't notice a huge difference in size. The weight is probably the same? I'm drawn to the gun due to its back straps and aggressive styling though.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 8:42 AM
A slicked up P-01 is an amazing pistol. I've not fired the VP9 but I'd find it hard to believe that it could be quite as good out of the box, or that the aftermarket will even exist for it to come up to the same level as a fully tuned CZ.

Let's wait and see if H&K decides to really flesh out the VP series, or if all they ever do is make a single model.

I think we'll see a VP9L, VP40 and VP45. 5" polymer guns seems to be quite popular these days.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 8:43 AM
Yeah..but it's not that much smaller though. I've held it once in my LGS, didn't notice a huge difference in size. The weight is probably the same? I'm drawn to the gun due to its back straps and aggressive styling though.

The P-01 is heaver because of the metal frame.

static2126
01-05-2015, 9:18 AM
P01 is heavier but carries better for me. Anything smaller shield is great

FlyingPen
01-05-2015, 9:27 AM
Yes, a modified gun by a reputable gunsmith will always have a better trigger than a stock mass produced gun.

static2126
01-05-2015, 9:31 AM
Agreed but for the price of a vp9 in the secondary market I would rather spend the 100 or 200 more for a p01

FlyingPen
01-05-2015, 9:33 AM
Agreed but for the price of a vp9 in the secondary market I would rather spend the 100 or 200 more for a p01

$100 or $200 is going to be a far distant memory after you pay for all the ammo you'll be using and training classes.

I don't get this logic in gun buying, the cost differential of the gun itself is inconsequential unless you're just planning to look at it all the time and not actually learn how to use it or shoot it. There's basically almost no difference unless you're talking about a Hi Point over a Sig P210 or Wilson Combat.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 9:33 AM
Agreed but for the price of a vp9 in the secondary market I would rather spend the 100 or 200 more for a p01

Exactly, especially when that extra $100-$200 gets you a P-01 with CGW Pro Package.

static2126
01-05-2015, 9:40 AM
$100 or $200 is going to be a far distant memory after you pay for all the ammo you'll be using and training classes.

I don't get this logic in gun buying, the cost differential of the gun itself is inconsequential unless you're just planning to look at it all the time and not actually learn how to use it or shoot it. There's basically almost no difference unless you're talking about a Hi Point over a Sig P210 or Wilson Combat.


No it makes a huge difference (and I do shoot around 4-5k a year of 9mm depending on work and family obligations)

VP9 on secondary market is around 900-1k. I would much rather spend 1.2k on a CGW P01. You are right, the 200 more is nothing over the life of the gun, but for only 200 more I get a far superior platform vs a VP9 as my base.

optimus-primer
01-05-2015, 9:47 AM
Personally, I don't think one needs to tune a VP9. It has a very nice trigger. But that said, Gray Guns is doing some work on them and is promising impressive results.
Bruce Gray of Gray Guns is a Sig is and HK specialist. I understand he has some tunings coming for the P320 as well.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 9:48 AM
No it makes a huge difference (and I do shoot around 4-5k a year of 9mm depending on work and family obligations)

VP9 on secondary market is around 900-1k. I would much rather spend 1.2k on a CGW P01. You are right, the 200 more is nothing over the life of the gun, but for only 200 more I get a far superior platform vs a VP9 as my base.

And that's the problem VP9 sellers will run into. At $1,000 there are many other guns people can buy that are on the roster, say a CGW P-01, Browning Hi Power and Springfield 9mm Loaded. You can also have Sigs in several different flavors.

Seriously, if I have $1,000 to spend on a gun it is not going to be a VP9.

Equipped
01-05-2015, 10:00 AM
I own both the VP9 and P-01.

The P-01 for me is a hands down an all around winner for range, carry, and tune ability. The P-01 is a tack driver out of the box and can be tailored to your liking.

My VP9 has seen 100 rounds down range and has not been taken out since October.

static2126
01-05-2015, 10:01 AM
Depends. Def some sales at over 1k have been made. Some people don't like metal pistols.

FlyingPen
01-05-2015, 10:05 AM
And that's the problem VP9 sellers will run into. At $1,000 there are many other guns people can buy that are on the roster, say a CGW P-01, Browning Hi Power and Springfield 9mm Loaded. You can also have Sigs in several different flavors.

Seriously, if I have $1,000 to spend on a gun it is not going to be a VP9.

The HiPower needs some serious work to smooth out and lighten the ridiculous stock trigger pull.

I think the VP-9 suffers from a couple things, first it has the HK tax, then there's the off roster tax, then there's the current profiteering tax.

I think the true value of the gun is that it should be around a P30 if not slightly more due to being the latest greatest from HK and having a reportedly better trigger.

guest1
01-05-2015, 10:10 AM
Sending your P-01 to CGW will get you a great shooting gun. For someone looking to pick between the two you can buy a P-01 from CGW with the Pro package already done fo about $980 shipped.

Will they still do this? I know the P01 is on roster but is the model CGW ships out the CA model? I thought I missed my chance with them.

Yes they will. When they sub the 10rd mag for standard mags you will be good to go. The CZ P-01 is on the roster and CGW is indeed selling you a P-01 as it shows on the slide.

EDIT: When CGW sells you a P-01 it is still a CZ P-01 which is on the roster until 1/1/2016. It does not become a CGW P-01.

I will respectfully disagree and challenge JackRydden's information above highlighted in BOLD. The Underlined portion however is true.

Bottom line is this: Now that SSE is gone, you must purchase the Roster approved gun in it's original stock form 1st. Once you are the legal owner of this gun, then you can do whatever you want to it. So purchasing a P01 from CGW directly all modified is no longer the same gun as the one tested and approved by the DOJ (internals have been modified and the hammer is changed among other things)
OP, buy yourself a P01 from your local dealer, then send it to CGW.

static2126
01-05-2015, 10:11 AM
The HiPower needs some serious work to smooth out and lighten the ridiculous stock trigger pull.

I think the VP-9 suffers from a couple things, first it has the HK tax, then there's the off roster tax, then there's the current profiteering tax.

I think the true value of the gun is that it should be around a P30 if not slightly more due to being the latest greatest from HK and having a reportedly better trigger.

A P30 is better built vs a VP9 (though in turn te VP9 is better built than the PPQ)

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 10:20 AM
I will respectfully disagree and challenge JackRydden's information above highlighted in BOLD. The Underlined portion however is true.

Bottom line is this: Now that SSE is gone, you must purchase the Roster approved gun in it's original stock form 1st. Once you are the legal owner of this gun, then you can do whatever you want to it. So purchasing a P01 from CGW directly all modified is no longer the same gun as the one tested and approved by the DOJ (internals have been modified and the hammer is changed among other things)
OP, buy yourself a P01 from your local dealer, then send it to CGW.

Actually what you said is completely true from a legal perspective, all on roster guns must be in their approved form. However the roster does not specify what those features are. The FFL is not going recognize the hammer and spring changes made by CGW, all they would care is what it says on the slide or the product number. If the seller and markings on the gun say it's a PO-1 then what makes the FFL say it is not a P-01? I also don't think CADOJ requires the FFL to inspect every part of the gun to make sure that it matches the approved form because once again, it's not specified anywhere.

PS: To be safe call your FFL to get their take on this matter. I know two FFLs that will be OK with this.

FlyingPen
01-05-2015, 10:22 AM
On P30 vs VP9, I would argue better built, the slides seems pretty similar with the exception of the hammer of course. The frames are pretty similar and the slide blocks, extractors, etc don't seem like they're better fitted or made of a higher quality material than the VP9.

OmegaTrader
01-05-2015, 10:26 AM
Ok..I'm sold on the tricked out P-01 and will send mine in when I get the PCR. However, I have a little worry about tricked out guns used in HD. I read it somewhere online that the DA can use that against you, since the P-01 and the 97BD are my HD guns.

Do you guys use the tricked out P-01 in your HD or they're just range toys only?

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 10:26 AM
The HiPower needs some serious work to smooth out and lighten the ridiculous stock trigger pull.

I think the VP-9 suffers from a couple things, first it has the HK tax, then there's the off roster tax, then there's the current profiteering tax.

I think the true value of the gun is that it should be around a P30 if not slightly more due to being the latest greatest from HK and having a reportedly better trigger.

Once you remove the mag disconnect the trigger is a lot better. My Hi Power has a 4lb trigger and damn it's sweet. In any case my point is not argue which gun is better, but to state the fact that once you reach the $1,000 mark there are a lot of nice guns one can chose from. Heck, if you have large hands you can buy a used Beretta 92 and send it to Wilson for some work and you'll still spend less than $1,000.

optimus-primer
01-05-2015, 10:29 AM
Another thought to consider with the HK being a $1000 gun. Is that a year or two the gun still maybe valued at that price.

its very hard to recoup the cost of custom work done to a gun. I've seen a few custom CZ's well below $1000.

I'm not trying to say the VP is better or that the CZ is not a bad gun. Just that the HK will most likely hold its value.

static2126
01-05-2015, 10:30 AM
Ok..I'm sold on the tricked out P-01 and will send mine in when I get the PCR. However, I have a little worry about tricked out guns used in HD. I read it somewhere online that the DA can use that against you, since the P-01 and the 97BD are my HD guns.

Do you guys use the tricked out P-01 in your HD or they're just range toys only?

HD gun. and going on my CCW. You can argue it both ways, you can argue it gives you greater control and thus is more responsible to bystanders.

.45 ACP
01-05-2015, 10:30 AM
A P30 is better built vs a VP9 (though in turn te VP9 is better built than the PPQ)

PPQ M2 5'' shoots better than both (my experience).

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 10:32 AM
Ok..I'm sold on the tricked out P-01 and will send mine in when I get the PCR. However, I have a little worry about tricked out guns used in HD. I read it somewhere online that the DA can use that against you. Since the P-01 and the 97BD are my HD guns.

Do you guys use the tricked out P-01 in your HD or they're just range toys only?

I use a M&P with Apex kit for HD and I'm not worried about it. If I'm going to shoot someone with it then I'm going to make sure that my shots hit as intended.

A prosecutor can use a lightened trigger against you if you had a ND and shot someone or your 2yr old was able to squeeze of a round hitting someone because of the lightened trigger. Lightening the trigger is not a crime but a prosecutor can use it to argument, because you lightened the trigger therefore blah blah blah happened. If you had left the trigger stock then your 2yr old would not have been able to shoot the firearm.

In short, you cannot be charged with having a lightened trigger. When SHTF you are going to fire you gun with or without a lightened trigger.

FlyingPen
01-05-2015, 10:36 AM
Once you remove the mag disconnect the trigger is a lot better. My Hi Power has a 4lb trigger and damn it's sweet. In any case my point is not argue which gun is better, but to state the fact that once you reach the $1,000 mark there are a lot of nice guns one can chose from. Heck, if you have large hands you can buy a used Beretta 92 and send it to Wilson for some work and you'll still spend less than $1,000.

Do not disagree. For around the $1000 or slightly more mark, I would personally just get a P220/P226/P229 Stainless Elite slightly used.

The Wilson Beretta 92 is another seriously compelling option.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 10:36 AM
Another thought to consider with the HK being a $1000 gun. Is that a year or two the gun still maybe valued at that price.

its very hard to recoup the cost of custom work done to a gun. I've seen a few custom CZ's well below $1000.

I'm not trying to say the VP is better or that the CZ is not a bad gun. Just that the HK will most likely hold its value.

It's hard to predict what will hold value. IF the roster goes away then the VP9 is a $500 used gun (think $600 new) but a used P-01 tuned by CGW will fetch more than $500 (again think $600 new) because it's done by a reputable smith. But I do agree with you on custom work, I don't think it retains more than 50% when you try to resell the gun.

static2126
01-05-2015, 10:42 AM
Another thought to consider with the HK being a $1000 gun. Is that a year or two the gun still maybe valued at that price.

its very hard to recoup the cost of custom work done to a gun. I've seen a few custom CZ's well below $1000.

I'm not trying to say the VP is better or that the CZ is not a bad gun. Just that the HK will most likely hold its value.

Agreed. When selling it's hard to get the money for custom work back. But that's not the point as they are my primary handguns.

himurax13
01-05-2015, 10:48 AM
I've heard that the VP9 trigger is pretty impressive when compared to the P30's, and I've always wanted a P30 but didn't have a SSE slot for it. As for the P-01, I'm happy with its stock configuration, can't imagine how much better a tricked out one would be.

Basically its like comparing a 4.6L Mustang to a late model GT 500. :rolleyes:



Yes they will. When they sub the 10rd mag for standard mags you will be good to go. The CZ P-01 is on the roster and CGW is indeed selling you a P-01 as it shows on the slide.

EDIT: When CGW sells you a P-01 it is still a CZ P-01 which is on the roster until 1/1/2016. It does not become a CGW P-01.

Except that the gun needs to be unmodified when it is initially DROS'ed in this state. However, I doubt the FFL would notice. ;)

kjv146
01-05-2015, 10:48 AM
I would go CZ without hesitation.

The vp9 is a very nice striker-fired handgun. The trigger is just fine. Ergonomics are very nice. For me, it's nothing super special, and not that far from an xd or an m&p. It is what it is, a very nice striker fired handgun. cool.

Get the CZ.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 10:51 AM
Except that the gun needs to be unmodified when it is initially DROS'ed in this state. However, I doubt the FFL would notice. ;)

My point exactly. Unless your FFL is CZ expert and hates you I don't think this is problem. They are not going to inspect every gun that comes to make sure the trigger and hammer matches that none existent guide line :D

EDIT: This is also where people just needs to shut up and not mention about all the mods. If the slide says P-01, invoices says P-01 and box says P-01 then it is a P-01.

guest1
01-05-2015, 11:04 AM
Except that the gun needs to be unmodified when it is initially DROS'ed in this state. However, I doubt the FFL would notice. ;)

That would be an expensive bet if the FFL catches the modification. Race hammer is a dead giveaway.
I would also guess that since CGW and CZC have such well known reputations for modifying CZs, most FFLs will look closely prior to DROS-ing blindly. That's been my personal experience.

himurax13
01-05-2015, 11:06 AM
That would be an expensive bet if the FFL catches the modification. Race hammer is a dead giveaway.
I would also guess that since CGW and CZC have such well known reputations for modifying CZs, most FFLs will look closely prior to DROS-ing blindly. That's been my personal experience.

Most FFL's are not that familiar with CZ's but the invoice would be a dead giveaway. :rolleyes:

FlyingPen
01-05-2015, 11:26 AM
The FFLs I like appreciate CZs and admire the work of the custom shop. I seriously doubt they would raise a fuss other than omg cool gun! But maybe I am lucky with my FFLs.

JackRydden224
01-05-2015, 11:29 AM
The FFLs I like appreciate CZs and admire the work of the custom shop. I seriously doubt they would raise a fuss other than omg cool gun! But maybe I am lucky with my FFLs.

That's a good FFL.

In this state everybody needs a good FFL or two to handle transfers. We have all heard horror stories where FFLs refuse shipment on something perfectly legal.