View Full Version : Armscor 30 carbine ammo issues
Dhlcycler
11-03-2014, 6:18 PM
Not sure if this is the correct part of the forum, but here goes.
I recently purchased 500 rds of Armscor 30 carbine ammo (50 rd boxes) from a CA ammo source and had quite a few FTF issues when using in my M1 carbine. In one case, I had a round that did not fire after the hammer fell, and was subsequently jammed in the chamber. I had to use quite a bit of force to extract it. Once I did, I found the bullet still on the cartridge, but the primer was dented (normally) and partially backed out of the shell. The shell was very distorted as well.
After this incident, I started examining all the unfired rounds I had in the batch, and found a large percentage (about 25-30%) with bulges in the case just below the bullet. The bulging is asymmetric, being larger on one side. After separating all the cartridges with visible defects, the remaining rounds worked just fine with no more FTF or FTE issues.
Is this typical for this Armscor ammo? Do you think I should be able to return the bad cartridges for credit or replacement? The Vendor (LAX) has a "no return" disclaimer on the ammo, but 25% defective seem a bit excessive to me.
thenodnarb
11-03-2014, 6:50 PM
Does LAX sell new unfired ammo? I know they sell their crappy and dangerous reloads. If they were LAX reloads, I would count yourself lucky.
jonzer77
11-03-2014, 6:58 PM
Armscor makes some terrible ammo and I would never recommend it. Consider yourself lucky and avoid them in the future.
Dhlcycler
11-03-2014, 7:17 PM
Does LAX sell new unfired ammo? I know they sell their crappy and dangerous reloads. If they were LAX reloads, I would count yourself lucky.
This is commercial ammo manufactured by Armscor.
https://us.armscor.com/ammo/30m1-110gr-fmj
It is available in numerous locations besides LAX so no it is not an LAX reload.
Is this typical for this Amscor ammo?
Yep, I can't think of an ammo brand that makes worse ammo. For Filipino stuff, stick with pancit and lumpia, not firearms stuff.
Dhlcycler
11-03-2014, 7:20 PM
Armscor makes some terrible ammo and I would never recommend it. Consider yourself lucky and avoid them in the future.
What would you recommend for reasonably (under .50/rd) priced carbine ammo?
I have looked extensively and this seems to be the only stuff available that is not $1 a rd.
Dhlcycler
11-03-2014, 7:24 PM
Yep, I can't think of an ammo brand that makes worse ammo. For Filipino stuff, stick with pancit and lumpia, not firearms stuff.
What about the Aguila brand? I am looking for reasonably (< .50/rd) commercial .30 carbine ammo and the Armscor is the most common.
And, BTW, the Armscor is US Made, says so on the box.
thenodnarb
11-03-2014, 9:02 PM
Aguila is on midwayusa right now. Or it was yesterday when I last checked. Its $25/50
jonzer77
11-03-2014, 9:11 PM
What would you recommend for reasonably (under .50/rd) priced carbine ammo?
I have looked extensively and this seems to be the only stuff available that is not $1 a rd.
Aguila, S&B, and Prvi are all under .50/rd.
Dhlcycler
11-04-2014, 2:17 PM
Follow up to my earlier post.
Contacted LAX and they disavow any responsibility for defective product. They say contact the manufacturer.
Contacted Armscor and they responded by email. Asked for photos of the boxes and batch numbers. Will wait to see if they replace the defective ammo.
I have also attached photos of samples of the defective cartridges. The first photo (1015) is of the FTF that jammed in the chamber. The others are typical of what the bad rounds look like. I almost seems to me they undersized the brass before loading the bullet.
Thanks to all those who responded with alternative ammo suggestions.
thenodnarb
11-04-2014, 3:50 PM
Those don't look like armscor jackets to me. They look like plated reloads.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/872109/armscor-ammunition-30-carbine-110-grain-full-metal-jacket-box-of-50
Check out the picture on midway. Their jackets looks more like brass. I've seen the same thing on their .38 spl ammo.
Maybe LAX passing off their reloads as new? If so, then perhaps a lawsuit is in order, or at least a call to ATF?
EDIT to add:
They don't even look like the picture on the LAX website:
https://www.laxammo.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Armscor_30_Carbi_529e33849f7fa.png
David13
11-04-2014, 4:03 PM
I have had both Armscor and LAX reloads and had no problem with any.
And they all look good. It seems like someone did a little switch on you somewhere.
dc
bigbossman
11-04-2014, 4:39 PM
47 cents/rnd delivered, for a 500 round case:
http://www.civilianmarksmanshipprogram.net/Sales/ammo.htm#Aguila30
Dhlcycler
11-04-2014, 6:59 PM
Those don't look like armscor jackets to me. They look like plated reloads.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/872109/armscor-ammunition-30-carbine-110-grain-full-metal-jacket-box-of-50
Check out the picture on midway. Their jackets looks more like brass. I've seen the same thing on their .38 spl ammo.
Maybe LAX passing off their reloads as new? If so, then perhaps a lawsuit is in order, or at least a call to ATF?
EDIT to add:
They don't even look like the picture on the LAX website:
https://www.laxammo.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Armscor_30_Carbi_529e33849f7fa.png
Armscor makes both types. The "brass" looking jackets are sometimes sold under Armscor "Precision" brand and the copper under "USA", but photos show both interchangeable. I have both, and by the way the "brass" looking versions have the identical problem, just not at as high a percentage. See attached photos.
The headstamp on the cases is identical for both types.
Can I cut through the jackets and tell if they are plated or truly jacketed?
Dhlcycler
11-04-2014, 7:02 PM
I have had both Armscor and LAX reloads and had no problem with any.
And they all look good. It seems like someone did a little switch on you somewhere.
dc
I have purchased this Armscor from two different vendors (LAX is one), and after careful inspection, they all have the same problem, to one degree or another. I have no reason to believe this is not Armscor made ammo.
xrayoneone
11-04-2014, 7:16 PM
What does the head stamp say? I couldn't make it out in the picture.
What does the rest of the ammo look like? That stuff looks really rough. I have a bunch of surplus GI from the 50's that lokks in better shape.
I wouldn't shoot any of that stuff. At best I'd use it for reloading components. IF it is their stuff Hopefully Armscor makes it right.
Dhlcycler
11-04-2014, 7:34 PM
What does the head stamp say? I couldn't make it out in the picture.
What does the rest of the ammo look like? That stuff looks really rough. I have a bunch of surplus GI from the 50's that lokks in better shape.
I wouldn't shoot any of that stuff. At best I'd use it for reloading components. IF it is their stuff Hopefully Armscor makes it right.
Headstamp says "M1 30 CARBINE". Primer is silver colored (not brass). Both the "brass" bullet and the "copper" bullet jackets have identical cases.
It appears that this may be once/fired/reloaded cases which are incorrectly sized at the mouth. When the bullet was inserted, it increased the diameter of the case, therefor the bulge.
The ammo that has no visible bulges or defects shoots fine, with no jams, FTF, or FTE. I do believe that the distortions in the case are creating these problems.
Dhlcycler
11-04-2014, 7:55 PM
Maybe LAX passing off their reloads as new? If so, then perhaps a lawsuit is in order, or at least a call to ATF?
EDIT to add:
They don't even look like the picture on the LAX website:
https://www.laxammo.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Armscor_30_Carbi_529e33849f7fa.png
All the ammo came in Armscor yellow 50 rd boxes, so I doubt LAX substituted their ammo. Plus, I don't think LAX even manufactures .30 cal carbine ammo.
This is why Armscor wanted photos of the boxes and batch numbers. We'll see what they say. If its not their ammo, then they will tell me.
Dhlcycler
11-05-2014, 10:45 AM
Was contacted by someone else at Armscor. He said LAX would replace the "bulge" ammo, but then commented that this was normal in military spec ammunition.
That I have a hard time believing, as case bulges in any cartridge I do not think are acceptable.
Waiting to see how they will do the replacement.
reckoner
11-05-2014, 11:00 AM
I have no experience with Armscor loaded ammo, but their 22 cal 55gr FMJBT bullets are pure garbage. 8" groups at 100 yards.
thenodnarb
11-05-2014, 11:04 AM
Was contacted by someone else at Armscor. He said LAX would replace the "bulge" ammo, but then commented that this was normal in military spec ammunition.
That I have a hard time believing, as case bulges in any cartridge I do not think are acceptable.
Waiting to see how they will do the replacement.
If that is their stance, I wont be buying any. Too bad. I just bought a carbine.
Dhlcycler
11-05-2014, 10:43 PM
If that is their stance, I wont be buying any. Too bad. I just bought a carbine.
Was contacted by a person Darren Newsom at a company called ACI. He claims to have manufactured this ammo for Armscor.
Here is his response in the last email:
"Michelle please forward this to Dan at LAX and ask them to replace the 150 rnds at the next show and send them back to us and we will replace to them and test these in our rifles. Sir we have a very good QC department and am sure these will function and fire both safely and correctly. I will let you know when I test them here.
Thanks Darren"
So it sounds like they will replace the bad ammo.
I think he is delusional about very good QC. They may indeed fire correctly but they are not going in my carbine in the future. The more I look at the bad rounds, the more I think the FTF was directly the result of these case bulges. They would not result in proper centering of the round in the chamber. I also mic'd the diameter at the case mouth and the bulged rounds were 3-4 mils larger than the Winchester specification for the M1 carbine.
Dhlcycler
11-14-2014, 6:35 PM
LAX has notified me they will replace the defective ammo (150 rds).
Shipped out today. Hope it's better than the original batch but I will inspect every round to be certain.
Kodachrome
11-16-2014, 10:28 AM
If your don't mind mail order:
http://www.targetsportsusa.com/30-carbine-ammo-c-99.aspx
http://www.jgsales.com/30-carbine-s-b-fmj-110gr-ammo,-50rd-box.-p-35.html
Targetsports has free shipping if you buy a case. Plus no tax.
I've used mostly WWB, have some Rem but haven't tried yet.
Used in my IBM M-1 and Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine.
Best wishes in your problem.
Dhlcycler
11-16-2014, 11:29 PM
If your don't mind mail order:
http://www.targetsportsusa.com/30-carbine-ammo-c-99.aspx
http://www.jgsales.com/30-carbine-s-b-fmj-110gr-ammo,-50rd-box.-p-35.html
Targetsports has free shipping if you buy a case. Plus no tax.
I've used mostly WWB, have some Rem but haven't tried yet.
Used in my IBM M-1 and Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine.
Best wishes in your problem.
That's a good price on Aguila. Rarely see that at .40/rd. Wonder why it does not show up in an AmmoSeek search?
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