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  #1  
Old 02-14-2007, 12:00 AM
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Default CALL TO ACTION: Call Assembyman Mike Feuer, tell him microstamping is half-cocked!

This is a call to action.

It's August 2006 again, early. Tomorrow morning and onward, we need to make the phones ring and the fax paper curl.

As you may have already seen previously stickied at the top of this 2nd Amendment/political forum here, there will be a new microstamping bill offered by Assemblyman Mike Feuer (D-Hollywood, 42nd dist). It probably will emerge Friday, 23 Feb.

(BTW I believe "Feuer" is pronounced "FOY urr". Someone correct me if it's pronounced something like 'Fewer'.)

It appears this microstamping bill will be somewhat changed from last year, and includes unfeasible ideas like an engraved tip on the firing pin, as well as markings in the *chamber*/breech. Not all the details are in yet, but it appears this would apply to revolvers as well as pistols. There is a good chance that the folks writing this really don't have much tech info on how guns work, or the materials of which they're made.

Let's give Assemblyman Feuer the benefit of the doubt; this could be carryover legislation pushed by a holdover Koretz staffer testing the waters and he may have not a whole lotta interest if this is something driven by one of his holdover staffers.

It's time to call Assemblyman Feuer and let him know the uselessness of this idea, and that there are better things (like addressing So Cal's failing infrastructure, and ensuring children get quality educations in the LA region) to spend his time & talents fixing.

Assemblyman Mike Feuer can be reached at all these locations/numbers.

State Capitol
P.O. Box 942849
Sacramento, CA 94249-0042
Tel: (916) 319-2042
Fax: (916) 319-2142

District Office:
9200 Sunset Boulevard, PH 15
West Hollywood, CA 90069
Tel: (310) 285-5490
Fax: (310) 285-5499

email:
Special web mail messages can be sent via this web link, which may be different than regular email:
http://legplcms01.lc.ca.gov/PublicLC...?district=AD42

His email is: Assemblymember.Feuer@assembly.ca.gov

Phone calls from you, family members and friends - as well as faxes - to each number above, plus electronic mail as above, would be most helpful.

PLEASE BE POLITE AND GRACIOUS. DO NOT BE RUDE, CONDESCENDING OR PUSHY. We're not the Bradyite Bleks
getting kicked out of senators' offices, we're gentlemen, OK?


Perhaps on calls to each of the different numbers at different times of the days ahead, you use some of these talking points below. Don't go yammering about 2nd Amendment, RKBA, freedom, etc. - this is something fought at a lower level involving practicalities and budgets...

You don't have to hit 'em all on one call, you can spread 'em out over a day or two:
  • rumor mill is running fast statewide because of grave concerns;

  • microstamping is unproven, unimplemented technology not in production anywhere;

  • small cheap parts, uncontrolled/untracked, are readily changed;

  • continuous changes/wear over part lifespan will change marks;

  • repeatability/reliability also a function of ammunition casing material and/or coatings/platings;

  • state/local gov't has no way of tracking, monitoring quality, etc.

  • there is little to no real-world law-enforcement support, as crimes are not solved from tracking casings to gun, and this technology is in no way good enough to allow this w/any frequency; rather, such evidentiary associations are merely confirmatory post-arrest matters, using existing technology;

  • 2006 CA gun control legislation did not fare well at all because many legislators - aside from politics - are starting to recognize that such measures have little or nothing to do with crime control.

  • Did the bills' staff writers contact experts, including materials scientists, metallurigists and tribologists (those who study friction & wear issues)?

  • Have the technical experts at the DOJ Firearms Div. given their input as to the technology feasibility, as well as the reliable administration of the database system storing all the microstamp profiles?

  • Is there a budget allocated for such statewide administrative tasks, including training of city/county employees, or is this an unfunded mandate on city/county crime labs?

  • Does the bill contain measures to stop 'identity theft', wasting investigators' and prosecutors' time on false/planted leads?

It's OK to share your opinion even if you're not in 42nd district. I will also note that for our SoCal members, cellular phone area codes are all over the place down there.[*],[6],[9] before dialling blocks Caller ID as well.

Y'all know what to do!
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Last edited by bwiese; 02-14-2007 at 12:50 AM..
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  #2  
Old 02-14-2007, 12:43 AM
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I'm willing to bet that he knows all of this, and frankly, I don't think he cares. It's a feel-good bill, plain and simple and probably won't even be enforceable if it passes. But he gets to annoy us evil, law-abiding gun owners, which makes the world a safer place for children.
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  #3  
Old 02-14-2007, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbopanda
I'm willing to bet that he knows all of this, and frankly, I don't think he cares. It's a feel-good bill, plain and simple
Well, his staffers may be carrying Koretz baggage (he was termed out). He has his own issues to deal with and this may not be on the top of his radar, and he may not need the grief when the phones are ringing.

Call and fax both numbers. Call on separate subissues. Email. Can't hurt, and squeaky wheels get things done.

Viva the Spirit of 2006!
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  #4  
Old 02-14-2007, 12:56 AM
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You sure it's not pronounced "fuhrer?"
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  #5  
Old 02-14-2007, 7:18 AM
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Here is a link to the CA NRA article on how effetive contacting a politican is:

http://calnra.com/freedomsadvocate/f...ocate_v1.1.pdf

Please e-mail him, fax him at both offices, and mail letters to both offices. If you read the NRA newsletter you will realize how effective this is at educating both the politician and his staffers who have to deal with the tidal wave of communications.

It works so please skip fondling your guns today and cut the head of this snake before it gets a chance to hiss!!
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Old 02-14-2007, 8:18 AM
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BTT to keep it on front burner...........
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Old 02-14-2007, 8:22 AM
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Does this have a AB #?

Should we just call it the microstamping bill?
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  #8  
Old 02-14-2007, 8:49 AM
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E-mail sent.
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  #9  
Old 02-14-2007, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6172crew
Does this have a AB #?

Should we just call it the microstamping bill?

I had literally dialed the number when I realized that I should have an AB# to refer to when giving my opinion.

Does it have a bill # yet, or should we just say "the microstamping bill"?
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Old 02-14-2007, 9:33 AM
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Just to play devil's advocate:

So Feuer is thinking about bringing this bill back up, or he's planning on doing it.

Suddenly, he gets a bunch of calls from a bunch of "gun nuts" opposing it.

Given his already long, and sadly, successful history of enacting gun control laws in this state, wouldn't our calls strengthen his resolve to introduce the bill and get it passed?

Shouldn't we wait for the blitz until it's introduced?

Am I wrong in my line of thinking?
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Old 02-14-2007, 9:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markymark
You sure it's not pronounced "fuhrer?"


Funny you should say that as I just got off the phone with both his Sacrament and LA district offices and they both pronounced it as you say above: "Fuhrer", as in "Herr Fuhrer" (Hitler).

The irony/coincidence is just too much.

In any case, the person at the district office actually talked with me about it for a minute; what exactly was my opposition; the concept or the technology; etc.

CALL AND WRITE, PEOPLE!!!
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2007, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthonysmanifesto
lets cross post this message everywhere we can...
Here, THR, ARFCom CA Hometown forum.

Guys, long distance is 5 cents a minute. Email, but *call* too (and be polite).

Multiple calls (addressing separate aspects as outlined above) to multiple of the above numbers from multiple phone numbers are helpful, spread out over the next days.
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2007, 3:20 PM
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Thanks for posting the contact info and talking points. You are making it easy for us to be good citizens.
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  #14  
Old 02-14-2007, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA
Just to play devil's advocate:

So Feuer is thinking about bringing this bill back up, or he's planning on doing it.

Suddenly, he gets a bunch of calls from a bunch of "gun nuts" opposing it.

Given his already long, and sadly, successful history of enacting gun control laws in this state, wouldn't our calls strengthen his resolve to introduce the bill and get it passed?

Shouldn't we wait for the blitz until it's introduced?

Am I wrong in my line of thinking?
no drop the hammer on this guy now and let him know we mean business. they are counting our success last year to lull us into complacence. we must not let this happen. HAMMER THIS FOOL NOW! and tell him microstamping is not gonna work here.
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  #15  
Old 02-14-2007, 5:58 PM
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This bill doesn't have a number yet and hasn't been heard in any committees. Swift action on our behalf could neutralize stop this menace in its tracks early on. The time to call is NOW. I already called 10 minutes ago, WILL YOU CALL?
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Old 02-14-2007, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA
Funny you should say that as I just got off the phone with both his Sacrament and LA district offices and they both pronounced it as you say above: "Fuhrer", as in "Herr Fuhrer" (Hitler).

The irony/coincidence is just too much.

In any case, the person at the district office actually talked with me about it for a minute; what exactly was my opposition; the concept or the technology; etc.

CALL AND WRITE, PEOPLE!!!
The "proper" pronounciation is closer to "FOY-yer", and means "fire" in German. For all you GothMetal fans, you know about "Feuer Frei" by Rammstein.
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Old 02-14-2007, 6:56 PM
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Default called, email going out tomorrow

Just wanted to say hats off to bill for posting the info, you're helping the whole forum realize how important early contact really is.

will e-mail tomorrow
wife's calling tomorrow
dad's calling friday
brother's calling friday afternoon :-)
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Old 02-14-2007, 7:08 PM
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Maybe calls to the proper committe chairs would help slow it down too, The chairs of those committees may not want to deal with the issue either
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Old 02-14-2007, 7:30 PM
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1 fax sent. . . I'll send another one tomorrow. Thanks for posting this up. I was getting a bit anxious to fire up the letter-writing campaign again this session.
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  #20  
Old 02-14-2007, 7:48 PM
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Email sent. Will fax when I get access to one.
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  #21  
Old 02-15-2007, 10:47 AM
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Guys, emails and faxes are good, but CALL (phone) and WRITE directly (US mail).

When you call, you get a staffer. He has to talk to you and not do something else. This is a pain.

If every gunowner called everytime there was a reliable report of propsective antigun legislation, there will be no more - or at worst, very very little - new gun legislation emerging. The staff phone folks just couldn't handle it.

We have folks on the ground. The Million Morons don't. Let's use our resources.

What does 1-5 minutes on a w/ a 5-cent/minute phone charges (less if you Skype) or a 30something cent stamp really cost you?
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:55 AM
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I just made my two calls. It took less than a minute each and I basically said it wouldn't work and that there are other things the assemblyman could be spending his time on. They asked for my address and I gave them the shop's.

So why not? Call them and spend some of their time.
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Old 02-15-2007, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms
I just made my two calls. It took less than a minute each and I basically said it wouldn't work and that there are other things the assemblyman could be spending his time on. They asked for my address and I gave them the shop's.

So why not? Call them and spend some of their time.
You are my man, Wes.

Even if you wear pajamas on a scooter.

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Old 02-15-2007, 11:13 AM
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There are no pictures of me wearing pajamas on a scooter. You sir are ruining my reputation.
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Old 02-15-2007, 3:57 PM
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I called again and the woman answering the phone was very polite and asked me why I was opposed and I said because there is no possible way for the technology to work. She replied that she was honestly curious why I said that, and I explained to her that firing pins can be changed within a matter of minutes, they wear with use, illegal guns are shipped in all the time from other COUNTRIES, let alone other states, and there are already millions of handguns in the state that are not equipped with micro-stamping firing pins and could not and would not be retrofitted unless the ASSemblyman (i didn't say that part to her ) was advocating house-to-house searches and confiscations of weapons.

"Oh, no, no, of course not" she replied.

Damn straight.

Is there anything wrong with multiple phone calls?
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Old 02-15-2007, 3:58 PM
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Bill: Can you or Mike or anyone post more details about what specifically is proposed this time around?

Does he want to have numbers magically engraved on the firing pin which would emboss the spent casing, does he want bullets microstamped, what?

It would greatly help me and others articulate a better argument.

Thanks
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Old 02-15-2007, 4:16 PM
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Who was it, Canada or one of our states who tried it and abandoned it after wasting millions and millions (one billion even?) of dollars and not solving a single crime?

I mentioned that to the staffer as well.
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Old 02-16-2007, 2:03 AM
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No one tried microstamping. Maryland tried a ballistic profile registry and it hasn't solved a single crime.

The phone number we should be calling is whomever we need to call to find out who this Assemblyman's political contributors were. I'll lay offs he got some money from the people that developed the microstamping process- which every gun manufacturer wanting to do business in CA would have to liscence in order to sell guns here.

Of course, it isn't a coincidence that the guy is from Hollywood- considering Koretz was from W. Hollywood and got booted this year.
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Old 02-16-2007, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven
No one tried microstamping. Maryland tried a ballistic profile registry and it hasn't solved a single crime.

The phone number we should be calling is whomever we need to call to find out who this Assemblyman's political contributors were. I'll lay offs he got some money from the people that developed the microstamping process- which every gun manufacturer wanting to do business in CA would have to liscence in order to sell guns here.

Whatever, it's the same basic concept of some sort of ballistic fingerprinting/serializing bullets/casings, etc. and my point is that it's been tried and has been PROVEN to be a dismal failure.

Agreed on checking his campaign contributions.
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Old 02-22-2007, 3:24 PM
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sent email to this guy.
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  #31  
Old 02-23-2007, 6:09 PM
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Ab 1471
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Old 02-23-2007, 6:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA
Whatever, it's the same basic concept of some sort of ballistic fingerprinting/serializing bullets/casings, etc. and my point is that it's been tried and has been PROVEN to be a dismal failure.

Agreed on checking his campaign contributions.

True, but the microstamping process was developed and patneted by a single company, who keeps trying to get it to fly....

of course, if it did fly, these know-nothings would be trying to figure out why revolvers are suddenly so popular on the civlilian market.
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Old 02-24-2007, 11:10 AM
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How much drive would there be for the technology if for passage in CA gov that it was required to be placed in the public domain?
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Old 02-24-2007, 12:36 PM
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I guess retards are more persistant than others huh?
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Old 02-26-2007, 1:58 PM
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AB1471
here's the bill text:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/...ntroduced.html
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Old 02-26-2007, 2:05 PM
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AB1471...Microstamping BS..the fight is on Calgunners!!!
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Old 03-01-2007, 5:40 PM
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Feuer *IS* proceeding with this bill. In a phone with his aide, who argued rather rudely with me at 4:47 pm today, he argued how it will trace a casing back to the registered owner of the weapon to help police solve crimes at a cost of 50 cents per gun and would NOT require that the stamp on the firing pin be made of a metallurgy that would be permanent that it would be ok if it would wear out at no penalty to the gun owner.

My retort was:

Johnny Good citizen will OBEY the law and have this microstamp, and if he gets into a shoot where his behind is on the line, the detective will be collecting a casing from a righteous shoot where Johnny Law already knows the weapon belongs to Johnny Good Citizen, and the micro stamp did WHAT for the investigation other than to verify the already verified?

Johnny Lowlife will steal a gun, expose the firing pin, remove the stamp with an emery board, a file, a dremel, a whetstone, a piece of concrete, etc, as Johnny Lowlife doesn't obey ANY laws. He's a dirtbag, since he doesn't comply and not violate PC 187 (Murder) PC 261 (Rape) PC 211 (Robbery) And a ton of other laws, why would we expect Johnny Lowlife to obey THIS law?

Johnny lowlife WILL file that stamp right off and proceed to go to work in his chosen profession, being a lowlife, and, he'll cap someone. Detective Joe Schmo will collect a casing without a "stamp" on the primer and be NO CLOSER than he would be NOW. The current fingerprinting by the transfer marks upon the back of the casing from the weapon it was fired from will remain, which is how it's done now.

I further reminded him again that crooks don't obey the current law, such as PC 187 Murder, which carries up to the DEATH PENALTY, if this doesn't impress lowlifes, microstamping won't impress them.

His reply was: The microstamo can't wear off or be filed off.

I asked him just what SUPER METAL the legislature recently invented that isn't subject to wear or intentional destruction.

HE did not answer THAT question, instead, he said, Sheriff Baca supports this bill and all of Los Angeles County cops did.

I retorted that a Sheriff and Police Chief does NOT speak for ALL copsm You can get a bunch of guys to decide pork is the BEST white meat, smells good, tastes good, looks good, so, it must be BEST, when, the rest of the scientific community will tell you beef is better for you and has less bad lipids. And still the ignorant will tell you otherwise. It doesn't mean Sheriff Baca is in the know, it just means he's trying to protect his job by saying he did something about gun crime, just like the rest of the lib anti gun politicians.

I told him further that if you want to make gun violence obsolete, create a utopian society where nobody rapes, robs, murders, or gets irrationally pissed off, commits crimes and give cops working crystal balls to solve crimes in 90 seconds or less, then maybe you've done something, but this thing is silly, wastefull PORK legislation that does nothing to aid cops in solving crimes or prevent crimes by convincing a bad guy to not murder because the cops will whip out with inspector gadget and "detect" the microstamp and know who did it, further, bad guys don't BUY AND DROS guns, they steal them. So, having a serial number to a stolen gun brings one NO closer to detecting the bad guy.

He replied "I support this, cops support this".

My next question was "Are you a COP"? His reply was "NO",

I replied, "Oh, I see"....

His reply was "Well, cops support this, the LA County Sheriff supports this legislation, and Assemblyman Feuer supports the Sheriff's decisions and opinions and we're going to push this legislation anyway.

I replied: Thank you for your time, please make sure you note my opinion and I will note Mr Feuer's opinion and remember this should I be in a position to vote upon Mr Feuer in his future political endeavors and I ended the call.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make him drink.

You can lead a moron to school, but you can not make him think.

In the end, his Aide couldn't care less about the opinion and sentiments of a citizen, his attitude was clearly demonstrative that I had NO SAY AT ALL.

Remember folks, the legislature does NOT represent the people, they only represent their own interests, and in this event as in many past, it is to demonize guns for popularity, to stand shoulder to shoulder with other control freaks and sell us their agenda regardless of if we believe in it or not.
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  #38  
Old 03-02-2007, 11:05 AM
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bwiese bwiese is offline
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This is a sole-source, preferred-vendor bill, isn't it?

Has adequate funding been proposed for database maintenance, work with gun mfgrs, technology licensing, etc.?

I think not.
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Old 03-02-2007, 7:58 PM
Draven Draven is offline
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The company is named NanoMark, and has been charging gun manufacturers $150 for firing pins to 'test out' the technology.
http://www.nanomark.com/Ballistic-id...isticindex.htm

We should acquire one of these firing pins, and then make a video showing how to remove the microstamp... then post it to youtube or something. Make the technology useless.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
The company is named NanoMark, and has been charging gun manufacturers $150 for firing pins to 'test out' the technology.
http://www.nanomark.com/Ballistic-id...isticindex.htm

We should acquire one of these firing pins, and then make a video showing how to remove the microstamp... then post it to youtube or something. Make the technology useless.
so elegant...
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