Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Curio & Relic/Black Powder
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-05-2014, 7:08 AM
thorium thorium is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: OC
Posts: 663
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default Going about starting a firearm collection - World War II 1911

Hi, I want to begin collecting some firearms beyond my "shooters" (modern firearms).

I would like to start with a 1911 with world war ii provenance.

First, are there recommended books web sites or other education for someone starting down the oath of collecting historic firearms?

Second, where are the best places to source a World War II 1911 specifically? Auction sites, well known dealers, etc?

Thank you for your insights
__________________
-------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-05-2014, 7:39 AM
Tonymin's Avatar
Tonymin Tonymin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 778
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

I like this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Model-1911A1-M...ords=1911+book
__________________
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/217364_10201631602140156_926033975_n.jpg
Looking for locally for sale Nagant revolver
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-05-2014, 7:50 AM
highpower's Avatar
highpower highpower is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cold Springs, NV
Posts: 2,783
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

There are lots of mismatched 1911's out there due to multiple arsenal rebuilds and there are more than a few fakes. Get the books and due your due diligence with your research. After a while you'll be able to spot the wonky guns.

If you are in a hurry to get a GI 1911, the reputable dealers may be your best bet. Be prepared to pay significant money for a good one though.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-05-2014, 7:55 AM
Gutter's Avatar
Gutter Gutter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,116
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Gunboards is an excellent resource for collecting. Check them out.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-05-2014, 8:32 AM
Armistice's Avatar
Armistice Armistice is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Corona
Posts: 2,484
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Gunbroker is a good online auction site

The only thing you'll find is if it was made during WW2. Firearms were never "logged" with what battles they were in, or who they were issued too. Just wasn't possible to keep track of millions of firearms and soldiers and where they were/ fighting
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThemBastards View Post
Judging from the last shoot I think we are the wrong group to ask about sighting in Mosins haha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knucklehead0202 View Post
I don't want dreamcatchers or AR crap, I want ugly old guns!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-05-2014, 8:57 AM
aeromech aeromech is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 201
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I have my Dad's service .45 from WWII. It's a Springfield and has "Property of US Gov" stamped on it. It's just too bad that when I was in college I had it customized. The frame is now satin nickel and the slide is black teflon. That destroyed any collectors value. I still shoot it a lot and it's a great gun but I just wish that the "expert" I went to back then would have talked me out of doing it.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-05-2014, 10:18 AM
bloodhawke83's Avatar
bloodhawke83 bloodhawke83 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: (╯o)╯︵ ┻━┻
Posts: 23,485
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

samco has a few.
__________________
hold the door, hold the door, hold the door. Hol the door, ho the door, ho door, ho dor, hodor, hodor, hodor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Anyone not voting Brown is putting other things above gun rights.
Whitman + Cooley or Harris = a rash of gun control California has never seen the likes of.
-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
If you're not voting why are you even opining?
Brown has a track record of not bowing to Dem pressure on guns.
-Gene
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-08-2014, 2:05 PM
Bobby Ricigliano's Avatar
Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is offline
Mit Gott und Mauser
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan
Posts: 15,211
iTrader: 314 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter View Post
Gunboards is an excellent resource for collecting. Check them out.
Agreed, but avoid the WTS section at all costs. Some members have posted irresponsibly cheap deals on C&R guns, unexpectedly bleeding my bank account dry by forcing me to buy their wares. These gun pushers bulldoze their way through life and hapless collectors like me are left in the aftermath. Don't wave a minty Hex Tula in my face for a buck and a quarter and not expect me to bite. It doesn't matter how many I have or that my new year's resolution was to lay off the C&R's. You cannot reason with a junkie.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-08-2014, 3:40 PM
DesertWalker DesertWalker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 462
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
Agreed, but avoid the WTS section at all costs. Some members have posted irresponsibly cheap deals on C&R guns, unexpectedly bleeding my bank account dry by forcing me to buy their wares. These gun pushers bulldoze their way through life and hapless collectors like me are left in the aftermath. Don't wave a minty Hex Tula in my face for a buck and a quarter and not expect me to bite. It doesn't matter how many I have or that my new year's resolution was to lay off the C&R's. You cannot reason with a junkie.
^^^^ This is the best laugh I have had all day. Thanks, Bobby.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-08-2014, 6:51 PM
Armistice's Avatar
Armistice Armistice is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Corona
Posts: 2,484
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
Agreed, but avoid the WTS section at all costs. Some members have posted irresponsibly cheap deals on C&R guns, unexpectedly bleeding my bank account dry by forcing me to buy their wares. These gun pushers bulldoze their way through life and hapless collectors like me are left in the aftermath. Don't wave a minty Hex Tula in my face for a buck and a quarter and not expect me to bite. It doesn't matter how many I have or that my new year's resolution was to lay off the C&R's. You cannot reason with a junkie.
See quote
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThemBastards View Post
Judging from the last shoot I think we are the wrong group to ask about sighting in Mosins haha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knucklehead0202 View Post
I don't want dreamcatchers or AR crap, I want ugly old guns!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-09-2014, 10:36 PM
Milsurp Collector's Avatar
Milsurp Collector Milsurp Collector is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Free America
Posts: 5,287
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorium View Post
Hi, I want to begin collecting some firearms beyond my "shooters" (modern firearms).

I would like to start with a 1911 with world war ii provenance.
Unless you are able to acquire a pistol from the estate of a World War II veteran, you will not get any "provenance" that it was used in World War II.

Both M1911's and M1911A1's were used during World War II - and in Korea - and in Vietnam - and beyond until they were replaced by the Beretta M9.

M1911's - but not M1911A1's - were also used in World War I and in the Central American and Caribbean Banana Wars as well as from WWII through Grenada, so they had a longer service life than M1911A1's. People interested in World War II often limit themselves to M1911A1's, unaware that M1911's were also used.

For example, this was posted in another forum. It is a M1911 - not a M1911A1 - that was battle-damaged while being carried by a Marine on Iwo Jima http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=28925



Be prepared to spend a minimum of $1000. For $2000 and up you can get something nice. Uncommon makers in excellent condition can cost even more.

I saw a Singer M1911A1 at a gun show today, one of only 500 made. It has a chain of ownership from the WWII paratrooper who used it from D-Day on.



Singers sell from $30,000 to $50,000. http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/61/lid/1620

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorium View Post
First, are there recommended books web sites or other education for someone starting down the path of collecting historic firearms?
The best books, like the firearms themselves, are expensive. The best books are by Clawson. The basic Collector's Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1 used to sell for a little over $100. At the same gun show where I saw the Singer today, a book seller was asking $299 for them. If you can get one for under $150 you should get it. There are copies for sale on Ebay.

The "big" Clawson book Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1 sells for around $800, if you can find one for sale.

An good alternative is buying volumes 1 and 2 of U.S. Military Automatic Pistols by Meadows
http://www.amazon.com/Military-Autom...CATSPASCWTTXAT
http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Military-A.../dp/B003L3UBG6

The best web site is http://coolgunsite.com/
The best forum is http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30

You should spend a lot of time at both sites before shopping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorium View Post
Second, where are the best places to source a World War II 1911 specifically? Auction sites, well known dealers, etc?

Thank you for your insights
Before shopping, you need to know what to avoid. There are a lot of ex-military 1911-types that have removed UNITED STATES PROPERTY markings and/or removed/fake serial numbers. The altering was probably done by the veterans who removed the pistols from the government's inventory without permission, in order to try to obfuscate the origin and true ownership of the pistols. The pistols with no UNITED STATES PROPERTY markings have no collector value, and the ones with removed, obliterated, or altered serial numbers are illegal to own. Use the reference books and coolgunsite.com to learn what the original UNITED STATES PROPERTY and serial numbers look like and where they were located. Avoid pistols with missing or altered markings like a plague.

Be aware that pre-1946 1911-types don't have fully hardened slides, so the slides are prone to cracking if fired too many times. They are more collector items than shooters.




Military 1911-types should be fired very little, if at all. If you want a military-style 1911 to shoot on a regular basis, get a modern military-style 1911 from Auto Ordnance or Springfield Armory, Inc. as a shooter.

There are also a lot of kit guns out there- guns assembled on commercial frames using used USGI parts kits. Those have no collector value, and they don't make good shooters because they don't have hardened slides. Avoid those too.

While you are saving up enough money, do your homework. If you try to buy a "bargain" before doing your homework you will probably end up wasting your money on junk.

As you can see below, I favor M1911's over M1911A1's, although I like both and I wish I could afford more.


Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-09-2014, 10:41 PM
Ubermcoupe's Avatar
Ubermcoupe Ubermcoupe is offline
🇺🇸 Trust Me, I'm Gov't
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: This information has been redacted in accordance with Title 18 U.S. Code 798
Posts: 13,717
iTrader: 57 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Default

paging Beetle
__________________
Hauoli Makahiki Hou


-------
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:45 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.