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  #1  
Old 04-03-2008, 9:57 AM
cypher cypher is offline
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Default Mount Suggestions Needed

Looking to mount a Mueller Tactical 4-14x50mm w/ sun shade on a 24" J&T Match-15 upper and I am looking for some mount suggestions. I have looked at the RRA high riser scope mount set up but want some input if this will be a good set-up. I am not real educated with scope/mount set ups, will this give me the adjustments i need?? Any other mount suggestions??? looking to get out to 700-800 yard range (eventually).

Scope:
http://mueller.geecarts.com/products...&sub=&type=176

Possible Mount:
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.c...ategory_id=326

Upper:
http://jtdistributing.net/store/more_bu_m15fbbu.html

I also have a Lepold VX III 6.5-20x50mm currently on my .308 would this scope work better on the match-15 upper for this distance. Of course it would require is take it off my .308 and replace it with the Mueller.

Any help would be great. If I did not provide some need key infor, (sorry) please let me know
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  #2  
Old 04-03-2008, 11:49 AM
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You're going to want a different mount because more than likely, that scope is going to sit too far back and you certainly don't want to mount it on the forend.

The best and also one of the more pricey options is to go with a LaRue SPR mount. http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetac...y=Optic+Mounts

Your next best bet is to hack something together using some sort of YHM riser/ rail extender and popping some rings on it.
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Old 04-03-2008, 2:52 PM
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That scope's got a long eyepiece (like most illuminated scopes), and if you shoot anywhere near NTCH, it needs an extended mount to get it out far enough. If you're going to mount a BUIS under it, you'll need a high enough mount to clear the BUIS as well.

Best bets are the LaRue SPR-E or the ADM Recon X (not as well proven as the LaRue, and not much cheaper), but they're pricey.

The key is to figure out where you need the eyepiece to be relative to the charging handle, and how tall a BUIS you'll be using, if any. Then you can look at the various mounts and estimate where the eyepiece will fall in them.

Here's my Big List of one-piece mounts:
http://www.maxicon.com/guns/optics/o...ece_mounts.htm

As wildcard suggests, another option is a rail extender and the right size rings to get it forward and the right height. That's flexible, but has more connections to shift or loosen.

Here's the same Mueller body mounted on my JT upper in an Armalite mount, pushed forward so the recoil lug is in the last slot. That works fine on this forend, as the overhang doesn't touch, but may be a problem on a railed upper like the Badger.

This puts the eyepiece just ahead of the CH, and is barely enough eye relief for me with this scope:
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Last edited by maxicon; 04-03-2008 at 2:54 PM..
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Old 04-04-2008, 9:44 AM
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so the idea is to place the scope far enough forward to allow proper eye relief, but not have it mounted on the barrrel rail for stability?

It should also be placed with the CH in mind. Is this to allow for ease of access to the CH for proper function??

Would I have to have the similar set up if is chose to put my Leopld VX-III 6.5-20X50mm on it instead and placed the Mueller on my .308???
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  #5  
Old 04-04-2008, 10:17 AM
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Yep, that's it. Some people have no problem with the eyepiece behind the charging handle - it depends on stock length, shoulder mount, and shooting style. You can check for yourself by having someone hold the scope in the right place when you've got the rifle in your natural position, or you can mount the scope in a single ring and move it around to see where the eyepiece needs to be relative to the CH.

You can mount an optic on a FF handguard, but it's not as stable as on the receiver, and bridging the receiver and handguard with the mount is running a lot more risk of zero shift since they're different assemblies. The more solid the handguard, the better, and if you keep the mount close to the barrel nut, that helps minimize shift as well.

Access to the CH can be a problem with the scope further back, especially for lower mounts, and you can get tac handles that help with this.

The Leupold will be a lot more flexible, due to the shorter eyepiece, but they tend to have long eye relief. For me, it would still need some offset, but wouldn't necessarily need an extended mount.

I'd be a bit concerned about the Mueller on a .308, but their customer support is good if you have the original receipt.

Because I swap scopes between ARs and normal rifles, I've been tending towards extended rails on the ARs and QR rings on the scopes, which lets me move them between rifles quickly and easily, though re-zeroing can be a problem. This would work well for swapping both scopes between your .308 and AR.

Alternately, you could just go for a LaRue SPR-E, which has the flexibility for forward eye relief or mounting further back, and be done with it. Lots of people spend a lot trying different mounts before they settle on the LaRue, which is pretty close to the perfect mount for an AR.

Here's a pic of a Leupold Mk4 PR 3-9x40 on Mk4 high rings - the eyepiece is still too far back for me, and it can't be moved further forward without an offset mount due to the adjustment cluster.



And a pic of a SS 16x in Burris XTR low rings on an RRA extended rail (one of my favorites) - tons of flexibility and solid when cranked down, but this rail doesn't leave room for a BUIS, and some people don't like the less clean look. QR rings would let you do an easy scope removal and swaps.

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Old 04-04-2008, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxicon View Post
That scope's got a long eyepiece (like most illuminated scopes), and if you shoot anywhere near NTCH, it needs an extended mount to get it out far enough. If you're going to mount a BUIS under it, you'll need a high enough mount to clear the BUIS as well.
Great list you've compiled!
My parameters are just slightly different than the OP:
Same Mueller scope
RRA 20" SS Varmint Upper
A2 Stock
But I want the ability to have BUIS.
Can you provide your top 3 recommended mount set-ups? LaRue SPR-E and any others?
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Old 04-04-2008, 4:59 PM
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There's not much to compete with the LaRue for an extended mount, except the ADM, which doesn't have nearly the user feedback or hard use the LaRue has. The Nightforce Uni-mount has a good reputation and pretty good forward throw, but costs more than the LaRue, and you lose the QD feature. The other decent contender is the GG&G Accucam, which has QD, but not so much forward throw.

Many folks with the A2 stock don't shoot NTCH, so they don't need as much eye relief, and that opens up the field to lots of models, some costing nearly as much as the LaRue, like the GG&G or JP.

For under $100, the really cheap CAA has worked suprisingly well for me and others so far, but I haven't mounted anything bigger than a DMS-1 in it yet. Aside from that, the Wilson, RRA, M1S, and Promag all are high, but not much forward throw, and the M1S and Promag have a reputation for stripping threads.

It's too bad Armalite doesn't offer a 1.5" centerline version of their mount - that would be the perfect under-$100 mount if you didn't need a lot of eye relief.
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Old 04-04-2008, 5:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxicon View Post
Many folks with the A2 stock don't shoot NTCH, so they don't need as much eye relief, and that opens up the field to lots of models, some costing nearly as much as the LaRue, like the GG&G or JP.
I don't shoot NTCH, I'm a few inches back from the charging handle.
I guess that means I could go for the LT-104 instead of the LT-139?
GG&G now makes a AC-30 with more eye relief, but costs more than the LaRue and only comes in 30mm.

Am I right in thinking that a 4-12x50 is fine in getting me out to 500 yards?
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Old 04-07-2008, 8:45 AM
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Can anyone tell what kind of setup this is? I think the gun belongs to Supersonic but I got no response from him/her.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Supersonic.jpg (84.3 KB, 19 views)
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Last edited by cypher; 04-07-2008 at 8:50 AM..
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Old 04-07-2008, 9:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher View Post
Can anyone tell what kind of setup this is? I think the gun belongs to Supersonic but I got no response from him/her.
All I can tell at first glance is it has Badger Ordnance Stabilizer Handguard (I love that handguard!) and a Magpul PRS stock.

Somebody on here is selling a very similar upper here
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Last edited by emc002; 04-07-2008 at 9:23 AM..
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Old 04-07-2008, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emc002 View Post
All I can tell at first glance is it has Badger Ordnance Stabilizer Handguard (I love that handguard!) and a Magpul PRS stock.

Somebody on here is selling a very similar upper here
That is almost identical to my build, only i have a doublestart lower and the ergo target suregrip. same optics too!

Looks like the RRA highrise mount that is was looking at also. i 'll have to hit up the owner.
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Old 04-07-2008, 1:11 PM
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The mount on the supersonic build appears to be a Talbot two-piece - http://www.maxicon.com/guns/optics/o...nts.htm#talbot
Total cost runs between $437 and $500(!), based on their list price.

The mount on the for sale upper appears to be on backwards, but that doesn't matter all that much with the RRA style mount, and is easier to compensate with a target style stock. You can see there's virtually no room for adjustment of the scope within the mount - the rings are right up against the bell of the eyepiece and the power ring. The eyepiece is quite far back from the charging handle, and reversing the mount would only give you another 1/4-1/2", it appears.

I believe LaRue is pretty good about swapping out a mount if you get one, decide it's not the right one, and return it in unused condition. Their customer service has a pretty great reputation, and I've seem Mark LaRue make that offer to folks in the past.

And yes, 12x should be good out to 500 yards, according to folks who shoot that far. I don't, and I like a lot of magnification even at 100 yards, so others should be able to give better advice on that. As your magnification goes up, the optical quality of the scope starts to matter a lot more. I'm not that happy with my Mueller at the maximum zoom, as it gets dark with very critical eye relief. It won't compare favorably to your VX-III in any way except price.
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Last edited by maxicon; 04-07-2008 at 1:15 PM..
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Old 04-11-2008, 8:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxicon View Post
Best bets are the LaRue SPR-E or the ADM Recon X (not as well proven as the LaRue, and not much cheaper), but they're pricey.
Thx for all the help on this, after many, many hours of searching and checking, i think i will just have to pony up and buy the LaRue or the ADM Recon X. Do you think it is really necessary to buy the either to get the 3" off-set or will the 2" be enough. The price diffrence is not much but i like the look of the 2" better. Do you think this will give me enough adjustment?

Warning NooB question!!!

What does NTCH stand for?
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Old 04-11-2008, 9:14 AM
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NTCH = Nose to Charging Handle

I went for the CAA until I can find a used LaRue.
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Old 04-11-2008, 12:50 PM
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Okay, I am confused . . . does eye-relief changed based on person or is it only based on scope. I see identical scopes on some guns with identical mounts and some say the have plenty of eye reilef while others say they do not. is this based purely on shooting style. (ie where your cheak rests on the stock)

I went home and tested my Mueller optics on my carbine just to see where it fell in relation to the CH when set for proper eye relief and from what i can see, based solely on Calgunner's pictures, is that the RRA or Armalite would work for me. Am I missing something that I should account for???

Don't mean to disregard any free advice, I am just trying to understand.
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Old 04-11-2008, 1:11 PM
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Eye relief is a function of the scope's optical design, and there are 2 components.

There's the optimal eye relief, which is where the light rays focus as they exit the scope, or the focal point. This is what's spec'ed by manufacturers, and changes with zoom. Better scope makers will spec eye relief as 2 numbers - one for min zoom, one for max zoom - and others will spec a single number.

There's also the eyebox, which is the distance around the optimal eye relief point where you can still get a good sight picture. That's also a factor of scope design, but varies some depending on the individual. A large eyebox makes it easier to get a quick sight picture without having to line up super precisely. Inexpensive scopes like the Mueller tend to have a very tight eyebox at the higher zooms.

As for where it works for different people, it's mainly a matter of where your cheek weld is. As you can see in my varminter picture above, the Mueller's eyepiece is just slightly ahead of the charging handle with the Armalite mount as far forward as it will go, and further forward than it can go on some uppers. If you shoot NTCH, that's too close to get a good sight picture with the eyepiece that far back, unless your nose is really big!

If you shoot with your cheek further back from the charging handle, you can get by just fine with a mount with less forward throw. The CAA mount is actually a pretty durn good one for the money if you use a 30mm scope, and has similar forward throw to the Armalite, so it's a good way of checking how it works before you pony up $200 for a LaRue.

BTW, one of the main reasons people shoot NTCH is because it gives a stable, repeatable reference for head position that you can get into quickly without fiddling around. Put your nose touching the charging handle, and there you are.
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Old 04-11-2008, 1:37 PM
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thx, everyone for all the your patientce I think at this point i will check the return policies and buy both to see which one I like better. Not sure that i will shoot NTCH but now i understand why someone would. thx.
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