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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 03-29-2008, 3:39 AM
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Default The most expensive AR15 possible?

I've been thinking about this... There's truly an upper limit to what you can spend on a combat-designed (non-funky F-Class type) AR rifle with DI gas.

Here's my "most expensive possible" build (NOT including optics or other accessories, just the things listed below - however all replacements/upgrades are OK!).

See if you can find something better/more expensive (Note: it has to "make sense")

Lower receiver: POF Gen III $335

Lower parts kit: Rock River Arms $65

Trigger: Geiselle $280 or KAC $310

Buttstock: UBR $245

Pistol grip: Magpul MIAD $35

Magazine: HK $55

Bolt Carrier Group: LMT Enhanced $245

Upper receiver: VLTOR VIS (includes handguard) $650

Handguard: (Included)

Barrel: Krieger/Compass Lake $460

Gas block: KAC SPR MK12 Mod1 lo-pro $90

Muzzle Device: FSC556 - $95

Iron Sights: Troy Flips front/rear- $260

Extras:
Charging Handle: PRI Gas buster - $90

Ambi mag release: Norgon Ambi catch $95

Trigger guard: Magpul winter $20

Rail covers: mixed panels and ladders ~3x$15

Trigger Pins: KNS $30

Selector: Ambi $30
___________________________________
Grand total: $3155

Throw in some 3-color duracoating, a S&B short-dot, Larue SPR mount, VFG, etc... and then you're talking real money


Can you outspend me on any better parts?
(no race-gun stuff)
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Lower receiver:
Lower parts kit:
Trigger:
Buttstock:
Pistol grip:
Magazine:
Bolt Carrier Group:
Upper receiver:
Handguard:
Barrel:
Gas block:
Muzzle Device:
Iron Sights:

Extras:

Grand total:
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  #2  
Old 03-29-2008, 3:55 AM
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One way ticket to AZ and a transferable full auto lower - $25,000.
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  #3  
Old 03-29-2008, 3:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsreeftank View Post
One way ticket to AZ and a transferable full auto lower - $25,000.
Ahem... that's NOT "technically" an AR15

Of course there's that.

This is mostly just an intellectual exercise...
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  #4  
Old 03-29-2008, 4:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
Ahem... that's NOT "technically" an AR15

Of course there's that.

This is mostly just an intellectual exercise...
Well, there are original transferable M-16 lowers and there are legal pre-86 converted AR-15 lowers.
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  #5  
Old 03-29-2008, 4:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsreeftank View Post
Well, there are original transferable M-16 lowers and there are legal pre-86 converted AR-15 lowers.
Yes, I'm aware, but exactly how does that help us make something we can have?

Unless you know of an exemption work-around in CA MG laws for NFA items? I'll tell you what, you figure that out, I'll buy one for each of us.
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  #6  
Old 03-29-2008, 5:17 AM
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There's probably $200 or more room to go up or down based on replacing things like the winter trigger guard with the one included in the MIAD full kit, but I can't really think of any more expensive parts to include other than the accessories you mentioned. Perhaps swapping the VIS for a Larue and getting an expensive railed foreend (what's the most expensive, DD12.0?) would add another $20-50.

Maybe an M203 and an AN/PEQ4 ?

Or actually, a Surefire M900 or M910 VFG light at $600 would definitely up the cost...
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2008, 5:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DedEye View Post
There's probably $200 or more room to go up or down based on replacing things like the winter trigger guard with the one included in the MIAD full kit, but I can't really think of any more expensive parts to include other than the accessories you mentioned. Perhaps swapping the VIS for a Larue and getting an expensive railed foreend (what's the most expensive, DD12.0?) would add another $20-50.

Maybe an M203 and an AN/PEQ4 ?

Or actually, a Surefire M900 or M910 VFG light at $600 would definitely up the cost...
Yes, I thought about the M900 & VFGs and lights and lasers, but those are like optics in the sense it's not a part of the function of the rifle.

I'm pretty sure the MUR + DD 12.0 is still less than the VIS.
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  #8  
Old 03-29-2008, 9:31 AM
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A complete POF upper. I spent 1500.00 w/tax out the door. Thats without rear iron sites. I had to spend another 125.00 for that. Wow, my investment going to work.
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  #9  
Old 03-29-2008, 10:01 AM
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  • Get a Tubb2000.
  • Get whole rifle from JP Enterprise.
  • Get LMT piston-operated monolithic upper.
Frankly, it's easy to spend a lot of $$$ on AR stuff. The above are just some examples. Or you may go gold-plating your whole AR15 rifle.

Or you may buy parts from us at 10X prices. We'd be glad to. (Just kidding)
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  #10  
Old 03-29-2008, 11:01 AM
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How much do the LWRC gas piston uppers cost? I think that'd bump the price quite a bit.
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  #11  
Old 03-29-2008, 11:15 AM
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but he said DI (direct impingement) therefore piston uppers are out
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  #12  
Old 03-29-2008, 12:08 PM
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for a bunch of senior members you guys make me sad..... helloooooooooo

+25 bucks for a BB!!! unless your sn is prince50 and your making the build
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  #13  
Old 03-29-2008, 1:39 PM
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I dont understand why people sink so much money into building these ultra-tacticool ARs. Sure, they look mean, but do the serve much purpose? For example in the other thread, the guy mentions he spent $2600 on his build.. Is a $2600 build gonna put holes in paper any better than a $1000 build. Sometimes I think gun people get too obsessed with equipment. IMO, it'd make more sense to put maybe $1000 into an AR, then spend the rest on ammo and training. You wont have the most badass looking rifle on the block, but you will be more proficient than the guy who does.
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  #14  
Old 03-29-2008, 2:11 PM
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HK 416 uppers are available in th $3500. range, without sights.
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  #15  
Old 03-29-2008, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon Moer View Post
HK 416 uppers are available in th $3500. range, without sights.
He said direct-impingement gas though.

uclaplinker, here are a few items that are more expensive.

A rifle-length MRP upper (includes barrel and handguard) is $1289.

An Ops-Inc 2-port muzzle brake would run $180.

KAC front/rear buis $325 from MSTN.
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  #16  
Old 03-29-2008, 4:14 PM
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Two pages and no one bothered to point out that the POF GEN III lowers have an intergal trigger guard making it pretty hard to put the Magpul winter trigger guard on it...unless you want a trigger guard on your forward vertical grip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon Moer View Post
HK 416 uppers are available in th $3500. range, without sights.
He said DI, so the HK Piston upper is out.


Back to the topic, spending bukkoo bucks on a rifle always seemed pointless to me. There are plenty of accessories out there that make a rifle better, but for the most part they are just for looks. It's always funny to me when you hear about people putting in $200+ triggers into their plinking gun or putting a cheap Tapco/Command Arms railed handguard on the rifle. I especially find it funny when people post pictures of their $3k rifles and then talk about living at home. Yes, there are times when it's not a bad thing like transitioning periods between high school life/college life/single life but not when you're 25 and working the local burger stand since high school.

The OP though seems to have a build, that while very frilly, is still very functional in all respects and would be a nice build. As said, about the only thing you could do to really add money to the price is Surefire's vertical grip, an optic, and other 'preference' accessories.

Or you could save the money and get a decent AR, Benelli shotgun, and a Sig handgun and be ready for introductions to three gun. I'm not one to talk though, I am the worst when it comes to wasting money in the realm of firearms.
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  #17  
Old 03-29-2008, 4:44 PM
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Yes we know we spend waaay to much on these. I guess it is better than going to the local casino and spending and losing the money we could have bought the rifles with. Or If you are into sex. The money you would spend on going to hookers and going to the doctors to find out you have to spend a lot more trying to get rid of what you didn't want for free, or If you are a drug addict, well you know how thats going to end. Trust me when you add up all the stupid things that you buy, I mean little things like glasses, watches, a hamberger, or slurpee. and at the end look back a say to yourself where did all my money go, you'll be surprise, that could have been that 2600.00 rifle in the safe. at least you have something to show for.
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  #18  
Old 03-29-2008, 5:17 PM
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That's the thing.. instead of spending $2600 on a rifle with the most tacticool and expensive parts, you could buy a standard AR, a Remington 870, a Glock, a Ruger 10/22, and some ammo to shoot them all. Im willing to bet that most people who put thousands into these hi-speed AR builds never come close to using them to their potential.

But alas.. Im guilty of the same kind of stuff. I bought a $1150 1911 just because.. for whatever reason I wanted a badass 1911 just to have it.
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  #19  
Old 03-29-2008, 6:28 PM
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I own a Gen II POF (same as Gen III sans ambi-bolt) and somehow I missed that

Yeah, piston uppers are a different thing... the reason I eliminated them from the "challenge" is because it makes it silly with HK416's out there...

Crazed_SS, this isn't about spending money, it's more an intellectual exercise at how expensive one could make it, if they REALLY tried.

Also, while training, ammo, more guns, etc., are nice... there is something to be said about owning something very nice. You clearly have your feelings about priorities, some have theirs elsewhere. Also, some people just have fatter wallets than others.

The ONLY time I will question someone spending a lot of money on a build is when, early on, they say they have a small budget. For people who mention a budget I will absolutely suggest that, at some point, cost provides diminishing returns. For example, I could part out a build that gives you 90% of the functionality of this rifle for about 1/2 the price, just by making slight changes to each selection.

Besides, Mr. Noble, admit it... if someone walked up to you and offered you the choice of this rifle or a complete Stag, which would you take?

Neo: I think what bothers me even more than the people who build $2k rifles and live at home are the ones who start 3 threads to get advice, have us hand hold them through the process, they want to make sure each piece is right, etc. etc... they drop $2k on the rifle, shoot it twice, then you see it on the board being sold for $1900. That upsets me.

I did try to make this rifle truly functional and durable. Sure, I could've built a race gun, but... that's goofy. I don't want a lower that looks like an industrial snorkel hood.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoWeird View Post
Two pages and no one bothered to point out that the POF GEN III lowers have an intergal trigger guard making it pretty hard to put the Magpul winter trigger guard on it...unless you want a trigger guard on your forward vertical grip.

He said DI, so the HK Piston upper is out.

Back to the topic, spending bukkoo bucks on a rifle always seemed pointless to me. There are plenty of accessories out there that make a rifle better, but for the most part they are just for looks. It's always funny to me when you hear about people putting in $200+ triggers into their plinking gun or putting a cheap Tapco/Command Arms railed handguard on the rifle. I especially find it funny when people post pictures of their $3k rifles and then talk about living at home. Yes, there are times when it's not a bad thing like transitioning periods between high school life/college life/single life but not when you're 25 and working the local burger stand since high school.

The OP though seems to have a build, that while very frilly, is still very functional in all respects and would be a nice build. As said, about the only thing you could do to really add money to the price is Surefire's vertical grip, an optic, and other 'preference' accessories.

Or you could save the money and get a decent AR, Benelli shotgun, and a Sig handgun and be ready for introductions to three gun. I'm not one to talk though, I am the worst when it comes to wasting money in the realm of firearms.
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Old 03-29-2008, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
Neo: I think what bothers me even more than the people who build $2k rifles and live at home are the ones who start 3 threads to get advice, have us hand hold them through the process, they want to make sure each piece is right, etc. etc... they drop $2k on the rifle, shoot it twice, then you see it on the board being sold for $1900. That upsets me.
Yes I've seen that too and every time I cringe a little.

However one of the things I've learned from being around for a while is that people will do what they want to do regardless of advice given. Besides, you learn a lot by making your own mistakes and there are much worse mistakes in life than building an overly expensive rifle and then selling it at a loss of a couple hundred bucks.
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  #21  
Old 03-29-2008, 7:55 PM
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I'm guilty as sin of the same thing. I bought my first rifle when I was 19 (Ruger 10/22) and used it a couple times. It was fun and a great little shooter. Didn't give me any problems, and outside of plinking at pests I never used it for target practice. I would take it out every weekend and just have fun with it.

Then I got the great idea that I needed to make it into a tactical sniper rifle. Wow, talk about the worst $900 I ever spent. After that was all said and done, I used it a couple times, then lost interest and didn't use it nearly as much as my second rifle (CZ 452).

On my first AR I put an EOtech on it before I even tried the irons. Didn't like it and sold it after using it twice. I would say 90% of the 'upgrades' I have done to any of my guns made them less desirable to shoot. I don't know, there is something more appealing to me about using my 1903 with ladder site than there is about using a rimfire at 36x zoom and knowing I'll hit the clays I'm aiming at.

I find in the end, firearms are designed the way they are for a reason, and rarely are there upgrades that make them better; they only make them more specialized. If you use the firearm for a single specialized role, it may help, but for the average joe, they're a waste of money.

Of course I know at least a dozen guys with $2k+ rifles that use them to their potential and then some, so it's more a generalization than a fact.
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2008, 10:23 PM
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how about an angle cosine indicator?

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  #23  
Old 03-29-2008, 11:00 PM
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lol what is an angle cosine indicator used for? Im assuming it's for some kind of long range sniping.
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Old 03-29-2008, 11:25 PM
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http://www.snipertools.com/aci.htm

I have seen them with degree of angle vs cos.
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:41 AM
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A complete JP CTR-22 is $2500 base.
You can add $75 for the JP barrel heat sink.

The CAA SRS stock is $400

That comes to $2975, but does not include BUIS, or all those other accessories you listed. You can go much higher than $3100.
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Old 03-30-2008, 3:03 AM
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Yeah... I've seen those... but I think they're more in the "race gun" category than combat weapon. They're kind of in-between - not as bad as the really done-up ones, but still...

I do want one of those upper/lower combos for some reason... The JP uppers I've shot were really nice. I just can't quite understand all of their expense.

I've always thought that CAA Sniper stock is hideously ugly

It's almost as crazy looking as this one stock we have in CA.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolbox X View Post
A complete JP CTR-22 is $2500 base.
You can add $75 for the JP barrel heat sink.

The CAA SRS stock is $400

That comes to $2975, but does not include BUIS, or all those other accessories you listed. You can go much higher than $3100.
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Old 03-31-2008, 3:54 PM
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Default I'm cheap

I'd love to be able to spend tons of cash on an AR, but I'm a cheap bas**rd and can't make myself do it.

My favorite sport is to shop and shop for the best possible deal on decent equipment. I have avoided products that are generally disliked (vulcan, blackthorn) I enjoyed building this a lot more than I expected.

With shopping I was able to build a Stag/Stag 2h with an Ace ARFX-E, Prince 50, C-products 10/30 and a knock off acog for $849 including all shipping. I'm a plinker and this is all I'll ever need.
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Old 03-31-2008, 3:57 PM
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  #29  
Old 03-31-2008, 4:24 PM
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I still see some rails that aren't filled...
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Old 03-31-2008, 7:50 PM
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Most expensive AR?

Start with an HK 416 upper. There's $4000-5000 right off the bat!

I have a JP upper on my varmint gun and like it- it's heavy, and would work great for long range shooting. Literally kicks like a pellet rifle. It isn't as specialized as some would believe- still has forward assist and uses a regular AR bolt. The adjustable gas block is a neat touch.

-Dave
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Old 03-31-2008, 8:52 PM
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People, I said no piston uppers. Of course you can use an HK416; I even mentioned that specifically as something that throws off the scale.

This is just an exercise to think about the most you could spend on a combat-related build that's DI Gas.



How bored were you, J-Rock?


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Old 03-31-2008, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
People, I said no piston uppers. Of course you can use an HK416; I even mentioned that specifically as something that throws off the scale.

This is just an exercise to think about the most you could spend on a combat-related build that's DI Gas.



How bored were you, J-Rock?
What else are you supposed to do at work?
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:45 PM
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What else are you supposed to do at work?
Carry on!
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:25 AM
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You can spend little money and make it "look" mean too. The purpose of spending money on good gear is to get good gear. Will it make a difference? Is there a difference between a $20K car vs $40K car? Of course there is..you can't just compare the two by saying both have four wheels and a steering wheel.

You spend more money on a better barrel, with all other things being the same, it's most likely going to give you better accuracy. Once you start going distance, this can make the difference between a hit and a miss. Good parts have a better chance of lasting longer and having less failure. I see it in training courses all the time. The guys with crap hardware tend to be the ones that need to borrow someone else's backup rig. That's not to say a $1000 AR won't work fine, but you can ask people like Pat Rogers (who might know a thing or two) about people who bring their "cheap" AR's to class.

It should NEVER be about "looking" bad ***. It should be about your rig ACTUALLY BEING bad ***. The more you can narrow down problem areas and increase MTBF, the better. The most problematic item in your shooting setup should be YOU, the shooter, not your gear.

There is a difference between spending good money on good gear vs. just wasting money on something expensive. I'd rather spend $1500 on a basic Colt M4 over $1500 for a crazy tacti-cool M1S/DPMS/Stag/etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed_SS View Post
I dont understand why people sink so much money into building these ultra-tacticool ARs. Sure, they look mean, but do the serve much purpose? For example in the other thread, the guy mentions he spent $2600 on his build.. Is a $2600 build gonna put holes in paper any better than a $1000 build. Sometimes I think gun people get too obsessed with equipment. IMO, it'd make more sense to put maybe $1000 into an AR, then spend the rest on ammo and training. You wont have the most badass looking rifle on the block, but you will be more proficient than the guy who does.
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Last edited by RECCE556; 04-01-2008 at 12:32 AM..
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:37 AM
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aplinker aplinker is offline
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Well said.

Looking over my parts list I think you could drop the cost on that rifle by about $1100 and give up nothing in accuracy, quality or function. It has things like the VIS (-200), adjustable gas block (-40), ridiculous stock (-100) (sorry UBR lovers ), overpriced BCG for a mid-length (-120), silly lower (-180), gas buster (-70), FSC (-40), HK mag (-40), trigger for a Jewell or JP (-100), KNS pins (-30), norgon (-95)... You'd still have an amazing rifle.

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Originally Posted by RECCE556 View Post
You can spend little money and make it "look" mean too. The purpose of spending money on good gear is to get good gear. Will it make a difference? Is there a difference between a $20K car vs $40K car? Of course there is..you can't just compare the two by saying both have four wheels and a steering wheel.

You spend more money on a better barrel, with all other things being the same, it's most likely going to give you better accuracy. Once you start going distance, this can make the difference between a hit and a miss. Good parts have a better chance of lasting longer and having less failure. I see it in training courses all the time. The guys with crap hardware tend to be the ones that need to borrow someone else's rig. That's not to say a $1000 AR won't work fine, but you can ask people like Pat Rogers (who might know a thing or two) about people who bring their "cheap" AR's to class.

It should NEVER be about "looking" bad ***. It should be about your rig ACTUALLY BEING bad ***. The more you can narrow down problem areas and increase MTBF, the better. The most problematic item in your shooting setup should be YOU, the shooter, not your gear.
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Old 04-01-2008, 1:12 AM
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Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
Ahem... that's NOT "technically" an AR15
Before the AR-15 was adopted as the M16, they were ALL called AR-15's and they were all select fire.

I shot a "Colt's Armalite AR-15" which was serial numbered in the 3900 range, complete with original green furniture, delta charging handle, happy switch and duckbill flash suppressor around 2003 or so courtesy of the Air Force Reserves.
The tag that I removed said that the rifle was last serviced in 1985.

Of course there's that.
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Old 04-01-2008, 1:17 AM
battleship battleship is offline
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Does anybody go to the range with there flash light still mounted to there weapon, it makes for a cool accessory but not realy practical even at night, best off with a green laser you can see that in daylight and at night it lights up any room so you could see an intruder, so begs the question why have a flash light when you can have a green laser?

Aim point red dot, i have one though its not the original brand i find it good in the house if i needed to use it for targeting an intruder but at the range, i find it does not help when in conjuntion with the iron sites. anything beyound fifty yards for me i find you need to step up with a scope or at least a 4x acog what are your feelings on these accessorys.
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Old 04-01-2008, 1:19 AM
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Gas block: KAC SPR MK12 Mod1 lo-pro $90
The KAC flip-up front sight with integral gas block is $500 installed by a KAC employee.

The ultimate build would also use KAC's newest handguard that looks a lot like a Vltor VIS after it's installed.
The installation tools run $750 to put that handguard on.
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Old 04-01-2008, 1:23 AM
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Is anyone keeping track of the ultimate price tag?
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Old 04-01-2008, 2:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The KAC flip-up front sight with integral gas block is $500 installed by a KAC employee.

The ultimate build would also use KAC's newest handguard that looks a lot like a Vltor VIS after it's installed.
The installation tools run $750 to put that handguard on.
And people think I'm high maintenance...

Speaking of the URX that Randall is referring to, it's a nice rail system but the need for $750 worth of installation tools makes a bit ridiculous for most people...I owned one of these back before they were for sale to the general public and to be honest, I didn't find it's mounting method any more advantageous over the DD Lite rails mounting system. I ended up selling mine for a small profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
Well said.
Looking over my parts list I think you could drop the cost on that rifle by about $1100 and give up nothing in accuracy, quality or function.
This is why I believe in building rifles based on functional needs and reliability. Price (whether high or low) should ALWAYS be secondary in my book.
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Last edited by RECCE556; 04-01-2008 at 2:56 AM..
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