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  #41  
Old 05-23-2014, 8:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRTguns View Post
Are you saying that they wont come for your guns if we only have semi-autos? I don't follow your reasoning. There have been pump rifles in existence since 1884. Semis have been around 1885. There have been anti-gun people since... oh I don't know... 1200 AD?

what are you getting at?
^^^ That didn't make any sense. What I am saying is some commie liberal attorney will now be able to argue that an AR15 can be easily converted into a pea shooter and thus, it is not a substantial burden to ban an AR15 with "evil features".
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  #42  
Old 05-23-2014, 8:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRTguns View Post
Are you saying that they wont come for your guns if we only have semi-autos? I don't follow your reasoning. There have been pump rifles in existence since 1884. Semis have been around 1885. There have been anti-gun people since... oh I don't know... 1200 AD?

what are you getting at?
I think he's saying; why help the antis further restrict 2A by accepting a pump gun as an alternative to a semi-auto...

While we all know this add-on won't be the replacement of an AR15, the antis might use it as a "you can have this, so all is good" tactic.. while they use it as a reason to ban semi-auto.
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  #43  
Old 05-23-2014, 8:46 PM
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Pretty cool Dave, now that would go with my PAR1 AK.....

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  #44  
Old 05-24-2014, 6:02 AM
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Need more pics
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  #45  
Old 05-24-2014, 7:15 AM
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If I understand this correctly, you've created a device which allows a guy to pump the forend of his gun, trigger a release and shoot?

That's been available for years.
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  #46  
Old 05-24-2014, 8:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
I think he's saying; why help the antis further restrict 2A by accepting a pump gun as an alternative to a semi-auto...

While we all know this add-on won't be the replacement of an AR15, the antis might use it as a "you can have this, so all is good" tactic.. while they use it as a reason to ban semi-auto.
So what part(s) would be targeted in a ban? A gas tube, a FSB, a gas key? all other parts are the same as SA. The above parts are just not used.
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  #47  
Old 05-24-2014, 8:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
If I understand this correctly, you've created a device which allows a guy to pump the forend of his gun, trigger a release and shoot?

That's been available for years.
You are a sick man. A sick mind is a terrible thing to waste!
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  #48  
Old 05-24-2014, 9:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
Pump V2

Put a smaller tube on the barrel nut that just slips inside the pump tube. Have it long enough to cover the silver pump rod and the hole. One tube slides inside other and looks much nicer while protecting the rod from damage.
Presumably, your optics would be protecting the op rod... and you should be protecting your optics.

In any case, the rod is tool steel. The aluminum receiver will fail first.
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  #49  
Old 05-24-2014, 9:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
how much does it weigh?
It's about 19 ounces, but replaces the existing front end on your gun, so only adds 3-10 ounces depending what you had before.
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  #50  
Old 05-24-2014, 11:18 AM
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You really can't believe that the gun control groups would lay off if there were only semi-automatics in the world. If they were a reasonable bunch, they would not be our problem.
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  #51  
Old 05-24-2014, 1:14 PM
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We are in the liberal nirvana of de-evolution. We went from single shot, to pump, to semi-auto to fully auto.
Now we go back from full auto, to semi, to pump, to SCREW YOU. Screw Kali and it's leftist agenda. Freedom!
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  #52  
Old 05-26-2014, 7:37 AM
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Sorry to just kill your idea. But DPMS has had a pump AR for years. U might sell more if let's say price was $99.00. I think I'll just stick with a side charging lever and pinch the gas tube.
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  #53  
Old 05-26-2014, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by tpc13 View Post
Sorry to just kill your idea. But DPMS has had a pump AR for years. U might sell more if let's say price was $99.00. I think I'll just stick with a side charging lever and pinch the gas tube.
You did not kill my idea. We're OK.

Did you read the first post? It explains what this is and the reasons for it.

DPMS and TROY make proprietary dedicated guns. Not convertible or compatible with a semi-auto.

And I'll shoot for pinks against anybody with a side charger. Sure, it satisfies the law, but it's as slow as a bolt action.

If you want a slow side charger for a bench gun, great. Nobody's telling you you shouldn't. For a bench or varmint gun, I'll agree, side charger is better. They just don't stack up if you're shooting off-hand or shooting quickly or in competition.

Last edited by CRTguns; 05-26-2014 at 11:31 AM..
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  #54  
Old 05-26-2014, 11:29 AM
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On another subject, not sure "pinching" a gas tube would technically render a gun non-semi. It's the same as turning gas off with a switchblock. Gun is still capable. All the parts are there. You'd probably be able to convince a judge that you're clean, but it would be really inconvenient thing for you and your attorney. The laws keep tightening up because there's too many are crowding the line of whats legal and not by the letter. You can't parse legal terminology.
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  #55  
Old 05-26-2014, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutz View Post
I agree, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of what an AR is? I know the bullet button does also, as well as the 10 round limit, but it I wanted a pump I'd use a shotgun.
I never understood why people bought pump shotguns when they could buy a semi auto
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  #56  
Old 05-26-2014, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfish View Post
I never understood why people bought pump shotguns when they could buy a semi auto
because pump shotguns are usually cheaper than semis, arguably more reliable, etc.

I can shoot more loads through my pump action shotgun and be able to cycle the action with them all vs. having some rounds not cycling in my semi. Reduced recoil slugs won't fully extract on my semi but they pump just fine through a pump gun.
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  #57  
Old 05-26-2014, 2:17 PM
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... and because and pump in trained hands can shoot faster than a semi in untrained hands.
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  #58  
Old 05-27-2014, 8:53 PM
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If you make a trigger system similar
to a Winchester 97/ Ithaca 37 then that would
be something.
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  #59  
Old 05-28-2014, 10:00 AM
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yeah... been working on trigger sys that would disconnect, or even slam fire. Have a few drawings for it ... but thus far I cant make them work as a drop-in part. Would require machining of lower or welding to the carrier and hammer. More parts= more money... trying to avoid that. I have a prototype hammer with built in disconnect... just trying to fine tune it.
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  #60  
Old 05-28-2014, 10:10 PM
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Does the charging handle still work with the pump attached?
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  #61  
Old 05-28-2014, 10:47 PM
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Yes it still works. It should be left on anyway just to fill the gap in the receiver.
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  #62  
Old 05-29-2014, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRTguns View Post
I'll try...

-Competition rules (manual division is slim due to lack of good rifle choice)
-hunting laws (there are still a few states that don't allow semis for taking game)
-upcoming assault weapon laws in at least 4 states very soon, and be sure there's more to follow.
-subsonic ammunition that wont cycle a regular semi
-suppressed applications... consider the Noveske Switchblock... the idea is to keep the gun as silent as possible by stopping automatic ejection that makes noise 2 ways, shell casing bouncing around, and the pressure wave that escapes the breach.
Very well. Thanks for the info.
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  #63  
Old 05-29-2014, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRTguns View Post
This lets you keep your rifle when the next governor of CA kills semiautos. And it still does what most forearms do.
Unless, as we all hope, there are some 2nd Amendment rulings that prevent it, this is exactly what they will try. However, if they follow the lead of the UK and AU they will also ban pump actions with detachable magazines.

Pumps indeed can be very fast - and if you like AR ergonomics, and also hate using bullet buttons, this might be a good option.

BTW, I assume the barrel is not free floating - correct?
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  #64  
Old 05-30-2014, 11:51 AM
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The barrel is not free floating, no.

This unit is not for varmint shooting benchrest application. It's been said that a side charging upper would suit that more.

This pump is for standing and/or rapid fire. Situations where free floated barrel has much less positive effect.
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  #65  
Old 05-31-2014, 9:23 AM
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I like this. It is innovative and something different and another great way to mess around and tinker with our ARs. I can see myself getting one in the future.

For everyone that is asking "why would I want/get/need" one, ask yourself why would you want/get/need a pump action shotgun vs. a semi auto or a pump action .22lr vs. a semi auto ?

Question, and not trying to be critical . . more of a request - can you come up with a more aesthetically pleasing and cool looking handguard for it And maybe incorporate some mounting points on it as well. . etc. . .you know what I mean?
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  #66  
Old 05-31-2014, 9:25 AM
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or maybe just make the pump core/body something that is designed to accept a standard ar15 handguard on it (i.e. with a closed off delta ring mount on the back and round handguard mount on the front.

They the buyer can install any compatible handguard that they want. . . tho not sure how that would look with it forward in the battery position. . ? ? trying to visualize
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  #67  
Old 05-31-2014, 9:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfish View Post
I never understood why people bought pump shotguns when they could buy a semi auto
and because semi autos are generally heavier and bigger than pump shotguns. . . ie. rem 870 vs. versamax . .
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  #68  
Old 05-31-2014, 9:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esp1 View Post
or maybe just make the pump core/body something that is designed to accept a standard ar15 handguard on it (i.e. with a closed off delta ring mount on the back and round handguard mount on the front.

They the buyer can install any compatible handguard that they want. . . tho not sure how that would look with it forward in the battery position. . ? ? trying to visualize
We did this... it required more weight and cost. Used standard carbine plastics with heat shield removed.

As far as add-ons, like vertical grips and such... they don't work well on a pump. Binding and torque...bad.

As far as having the freedom to do whatever you want to your gun... you're in California. Stop that kind of thinking.
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  #69  
Old 05-31-2014, 2:07 PM
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This could get me into ARs. I prefer manual action over semi for some reason.
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  #70  
Old 05-31-2014, 3:00 PM
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I'm intrigued, to say the least. Any chance of you guys offering different calibers in the future? Would love to see it in 7.62x39 or .410! Or even better, an AR10 upper in 12 or 20 gauge!
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  #71  
Old 06-01-2014, 11:55 AM
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It will work on ANY AR-15 of carbine gas length and barrel of at least 16"

I've put them on 5.56, 6.8, 7.62x39, and 300 blackouts here in NV...(suppressed use is so much better without the bolt making noise)

AR-10 version will be a while. Pistol length kit should come before that.
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  #72  
Old 06-01-2014, 12:00 PM
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It will work on ANY AR-15 of carbine gas length and barrel of at least 16"

I've put them on 5.56, 6.8, 7.62x39, and 300 blackouts here in NV...(suppressed use is so much better without the bolt making noise)

AR-10 version will be a while. Pistol length kit should come before that.
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  #73  
Old 06-01-2014, 3:07 PM
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May I make a suggestion for V2.0?

Charge a little more, but include a complete bolt carrier unit already attached and staked to the gas key.
Increase the diameter on the rear a bit, similar to the LWRC/HK piston bolt carrier groups. This will take care of any potential carrier-dive issues that might crop up since this will be working just like the piston guns.

An anti-carrier-dive buffer would work too, but field stripping becomes a b%$#h (have to pull both pins).

-Dave
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  #74  
Old 06-01-2014, 5:31 PM
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I appreciate your insight... The potential for this problem did occur to us as well. We checked the carriers and buffer tube for contact patch wear. Did not seem to happen... we figure the pump is moving much slower than a gas piston in SA. It's probably the acceleration of the piston, and the inertia of the BCG that causes the tilt. I did come up with a plug for the carrier that held it centered in the tube... might still become an option. I know that oversized uppers and undersized carriers exist that could lead to excessive tilt.

There are many improvements that could be made if we were to charge more...but that's not the point of this unit.
Version 2.0 will happen eventually. Will have to be a complete dedicated upper.

Last edited by CRTguns; 06-01-2014 at 5:35 PM..
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  #75  
Old 06-06-2014, 9:26 AM
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How is the accuracy? It looks like the whole thing is free floated from the barrel, correct? so with no action movement, I'd imagine accuracy should be great
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  #76  
Old 06-06-2014, 9:31 AM
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Accuracy depends too much on your barrel, optics, trigger, ammo and shooter ability to make any generalizations. The barrel is not free floated with this kit. With a consistent soft hold, we've printed the same accuracy as when the barrel was free floated.

The UMOS is really made for standing or moving fire (3-gun and hunting) so the benchrest capability was not top priority.
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  #77  
Old 06-19-2014, 9:39 AM
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http://loadoutroom.com/10635/pump-ac...ple-effective/
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  #78  
Old 06-19-2014, 9:09 PM
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Sierra Arms in Modesto, (209-544-1911) and JR Sports in Livermore (925) 443-9691 both have UMOS kits on hand so you can stop and see and handle them.
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  #79  
Old 08-22-2014, 7:11 AM
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This is pretty damn cool.
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  #80  
Old 01-08-2016, 6:58 PM
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Default AR-15----> pump conversion kit

Hi, CRTguns -- I know I'm necroing the heck out of an old thread, but I just poked my head in at Bentwood's website, and it looks like they're not selling the UMOS kit anymore. Any idea where I might be able to scare one up?
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