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  #1  
Old 04-05-2014, 12:51 PM
deathcomesforfree2all deathcomesforfree2all is offline
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Default What are the mechanical advantages to having a submachine gun load from the side vs t

What are the mechanical advantages to having a submachine gun load from the side vs the bottom?

What mathematically do engineers use to help determine which design will lead to less jams / misfires etc? I'm assuming there are different strategies in terms of design based on time primarily.

I'm looking into drawing up schematics for a sub machine gun design and I'm pouring over different schematics.



Why did the Sten Gun feed the rounds into the chamber from the side of the barrel? Other then the Sten gun offering the luxury of being prone while firing.

Is there any mathematical reasoning for why this Sten design would cause the gun to not jam or misfire? Compared to say a sub machine gun that had the bullet holder magazine thing on the bottom of the gun like an mp5?

I'm assuming most jams or misfires occur because energy isn't flowing through the metal like it should and then metal hits metal instead of metal passing by metal? Is this basically why the ak74 is considered a more rugged assault rifle compared to the ar15 where the internal tolerances of the gun cause it to jam / missfire more because of dirt grime oil etc
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Old 04-05-2014, 1:02 PM
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The Sten and early MGs like the Bergman and Beretta fed from the side so they could be fired from prone.
Side or top feed is also easier on the magazine spring as it does not have to fight gravity pushing ammo up.
One of the most reliable Light MGs was the Bren, which was a top feed gun.

In any gun or mechanical device, the tighter the moving parts tolerances are, the less friendly it will be to fouling by dirt, grime, dried out oil, burnt powder residue or whatever.

This was a major reason the WW2 Germans redesigned the tight tolerance MG34 to the loose tolerance MG42.
In general, Russian guns are all made "loose" so they continue to function in snow and mud.
Usually this means a loss of accuracy; but for military arms, it's best that they go bang very time rather than give bull's eye accuracy.

You also have to consider parts expanding due to heat in your design.
Leave some room for parts growth and "wiggle" room where possible.
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Old 04-05-2014, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathcomesforfree2all View Post
What are the mechanical advantages to having a submachine gun load from the side vs the bottom?

What mathematically do engineers use to help determine which design will lead to less jams / misfires etc? I'm assuming there are different strategies in terms of design based on time primarily.

I'm looking into drawing up schematics for a sub machine gun design and I'm pouring over different schematics.



Why did the Sten Gun feed the rounds into the chamber from the side of the barrel? Other then the Sten gun offering the luxury of being prone while firing.

Is there any mathematical reasoning for why this Sten design would cause the gun to not jam or misfire? Compared to say a sub machine gun that had the bullet holder magazine thing on the bottom of the gun like an mp5?

I'm assuming most jams or misfires occur because energy isn't flowing through the metal like it should and then metal hits metal instead of metal passing by metal? Is this basically why the ak74 is considered a more rugged assault rifle compared to the ar15 where the internal tolerances of the gun cause it to jam / missfire more because of dirt grime oil etc
I suggest you keep reading those schematics.
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Old 04-06-2014, 6:39 AM
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the question might do better in the gunsmithing subforum.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:44 AM
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sounds like a combination of a chi and fung shui
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Old 04-06-2014, 2:00 PM
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There is no mathematical nor mechanical advantage. If that were true all guns would be gravity feed.

it's all practicality

Weapon design was summed up years ago when some one examined how different countries designed and built weapons.

Americans build target rifles
Brits build hunting rifles
Germans and Russians build battle rifles.

Simple as that.
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Old 04-06-2014, 4:03 PM
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Wasn't there a sten that had the mag attached to a rotating collar? You could have top, side, or bottom feed and anything in between.
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Old 04-06-2014, 5:12 PM
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Wasn't there a sten that had the mag attached to a rotating collar? You could have top, side, or bottom feed and anything in between.
yep there sure was or a sterling one of the two
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:07 PM
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The Sten MK2 has a magwell that can be rotated downward to cover the ejection port and for compactness when carried by paratroopers etc. One would need to rotate the well clockwise around the tube 90 degrees until a plunger locked it in position then insert a magazine.

The Germans MP3008 copied the design with a one significant alteration in that the magwell was on the bottom instead of the side with an inserted magazine being vertical instead of horizontal.
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Old 04-08-2014, 7:48 AM
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Mathematical reasoning?

Well I suppose the only way to quantify ergonomics would be using statistics on a large number of beta testers.

Does that count? (pun intended)
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