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  #1  
Old 03-24-2014, 7:31 AM
CPRAFAN CPRAFAN is online now
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Default Gunowners Beware: No-knock SWAT Attacks

"Gun owners beware. Squirt gun owners, that includes you. If a Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team SUSPECTS you of crime, you may receive a late-night visit from an armed SWAT team.

That’s right, an armed and militant SWAT team could trot right through your front door as you slumber this summer. No-knock warrants are increasingly used by military-style police units, like SWAT teams for drug raids. Unfortunately, SWAT teams can obtain these warrants too easily from judges and consequently do not always perform sufficient due diligence. As a result, tens of thousands of decent, law-abiding American citizens are surprised every year by a no-knock visit when the SWAT team gets it wrong.

While we do not know the exact number of wrongful No-Knock SWAT invasions, a 2006 article by Cato Institute policy analyst put the number at 40,000 a year! We must rally together and use our freedom of speech to protest such an atrocity . . . .

Think about it: When a SWAT team invades the wrong home in the middle of the night, as happened in the case of Tracy Ingle in 2008, the results can be bloody. SWAT team members barreled through Ingle’s main door and bedroom window under the cover of darkness. Understandably, Ingle thought he was being robbed and attempted to exercise his natural right to self-defense by reaching for what The New American describes as “a non-working gun.”

It wasn’t until after (shooting Ingle 9 times) that the SWAT team thought to verify Ingle’s identity by asking him if he was the criminal they were looking for named “Michael.” When they realized Ingle was not “Michael” but “Terry,” they rushed him to the hospital." Full article at link below . . .

http://townhall.com/columnists/katie...tm_campaign=nl

"Swatting" is a new pastime for angry neighbors and ex-girlfriends - you are an anonymous phone call away from a SWAT raid busting in your door . . . .
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Old 03-24-2014, 7:38 AM
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Scary stuff. Typical shoot first ask questions later.
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Old 03-24-2014, 7:39 AM
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I have a no soliciting sign on my front door so I am good.
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  #4  
Old 03-24-2014, 7:49 AM
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no soliciting signs = no selling and they don't stop salesman and I'm pretty sure they're not going to work with a SWAT team,
but who knows, maybe.
:-)

I'm going to stick with my home made warning sign :
" this house is contaminated with Calgunitis !!! extremely contagious!.. we're talking worse than Fighterpilots basement! bad stuff! stay away! "


but on a serious note, this gets worse and worse as I get older.
I'm almost become too cynical and believe they've got the secret formula for turning up the heat very slowly & cooking the frog without the frog getting upset and causing a commotion...

The bad news is, we are the frog.

Last edited by sealocan; 03-24-2014 at 7:54 AM..
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  #5  
Old 03-24-2014, 8:04 AM
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  #6  
Old 03-24-2014, 8:09 AM
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No knock warrants are really no different IMO. The regular "knock" warrants are knock twice, yell police and knock down the door. It takes 1-2 seconds to be inside so either way makes no "real" difference. If I was a bad guy that did home invasion robberies I would knock down the door and yell "Police" so anyone inside would hesitate to defend themselves until it was to late. It is scarey times !
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Old 03-24-2014, 8:20 AM
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This is a result of the militarization of the local police forces. One city gets a military assault vehicle and the next city wants one too.

SWAT teams are used for every day police work, only because they have those assets and must use them to justify having them.

Someone in law enforcement will need to explain to me why a SWAT team is needed for a domestic police call. What are they expecting to find, Osama?
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  #8  
Old 03-24-2014, 8:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DTOM CA! View Post
No knock warrants are really no different IMO. The regular "knock" warrants are knock twice, yell police and knock down the door. It takes 1-2 seconds to be inside so either way makes no "real" difference. If I was a bad guy that did home invasion robberies I would knock down the door and yell "Police" so anyone inside would hesitate to defend themselves until it was to late. It is scarey times !
Sounds like you have experience doing home invasions
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  #9  
Old 03-24-2014, 8:37 AM
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Didn't a SWAT officer take a few rounds and die in one of these dumbass raids? What's that saying about playing stupid games?
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  #10  
Old 03-24-2014, 8:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CPRAFAN View Post
"Swatting" is a new pastime for angry neighbors and ex-girlfriends - you are an anonymous phone call away from a SWAT raid busting in your door . . . .
New? It's been going on now for at least the past 3 years. Really ramped up in 2013 and has started to die down recently, but may pick up in popularity in other states. CA passed a bill last year strengthening punitive damages for those caught doing it.

Regardless, this country needs to take a huge step back in militarizing its police forces, especially when in most all cases, a simple knock on the door and standard procedure at a normal hour (and not in the middle of the night) would not only suffice, but not be chaotic or result in a disastrous end.

We are going down the same path as a 1933 Germany, while voting for it, cultivating it, supporting it, and allowing it.
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What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

Last edited by The Gleam; 03-24-2014 at 8:43 AM..
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  #11  
Old 03-24-2014, 8:43 AM
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Bring out the battering ram
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Old 03-24-2014, 8:46 AM
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Originally Posted by The Gleam View Post
New? It's been going on now for at least the past 3 years. Really ramped up in 2013 and has started to die down recently, but may pick up in popularity in other states. CA passed a bill last year strengthening punitive damages for those caught doing it.

Regardless, this country needs to take a huge step back in militarizing its police forces, especially when in most all cases, a simple knock on the door and standard procedure at a normal hour (and not in the middle of the night) would not only suffice, but not be chaotic or result in a disastrous end.

We are going down the same path as a 1933 Germany, while voting for it, cultivating it, supporting it, and allowing it.
This. Well said, thank you.
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Old 03-24-2014, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by The Gleam View Post
New? It's been going on now for at least the past 3 years. Really ramped up in 2013 and has started to die down recently, but may pick up in popularity in other states. CA passed a bill last year strengthening punitive damages for those caught doing it.

Regardless, this country needs to take a huge step back in militarizing its police forces, especially when in most all cases, a simple knock on the door and standard procedure at a normal hour (and not in the middle of the night) would not only suffice, but not be chaotic or result in a disastrous end.

We are going down the same path as a 1933 Germany, while voting for it, cultivating it, supporting it, and allowing it.
The conservative blogger, Patterico, was the first one I knew about getting "swatted". There was a real run on crazies calling 911 and reporting a shooting, kidnapping, or some other violent crime. He was reporting them on his blog, and there were a couple that were this >< close to getting shot.
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Old 03-24-2014, 8:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DTOM CA! View Post
No knock warrants are really no different IMO. The regular "knock" warrants are knock twice, yell police and knock down the door. It takes 1-2 seconds to be inside so either way makes no "real" difference. If I was a bad guy that did home invasion robberies I would knock down the door and yell "Police" so anyone inside would hesitate to defend themselves until it was to late. It is scarey times !
How bad is it that i have thought about that a many of times, what if a scum bag breaks in and yells Police! God forbid i should ever face such a situation but my idea would be to take cover and ask for the warrant to be shown before coming out. that would make sense when dealing with "thinking people" but 9/10 the leo would just shoot me for challenging their authority.
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  #15  
Old 03-24-2014, 10:38 AM
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It amazes me how the rules of engagement are much more stringent in a war zone such as Afghanistan than they are with law enforcement in a free republic. The sad state of affairs in this once great country. I still believe this is the greatest country on earth but the divide that creates the difference between us and them is shrinking fast.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:01 AM
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Just another reason to fortify your home. Bars on the windows and steel security doors will go a long way to keeping people from being able to enter your home quickly.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:10 AM
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I just thought of one scenario that would put a stop to this insanity.
Imagine if a judge was the victim? Oops sorry probably wont cut it and heads might roll.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:16 AM
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Easy way to fix this is to start holding those doing it civilly and criminally liable for their ****-ups, from the judge who signed off to the dude who kicks in the door.

No knock warrants are a completely unnecessary escalation of force that makes things more dangerous for everyone.
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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by scobun View Post
Easy way to fix this is to start holding those doing it civilly and criminally liable for their ****-ups, from the judge who signed off to the dude who kicks in the door.

No knock warrants are a completely unnecessary escalation of force that makes things more dangerous for everyone.
i agree but this will never happen, especially not to the judges. cops get away with rape and the worst thing that happens is they get demoted or transferred.

not hating on cops, just saying.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:29 AM
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"Upham, beware of the Bull****!"

Last edited by IrishJoe3; 03-24-2014 at 11:31 AM..
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Custom ii View Post
It amazes me how the rules of engagement are much more stringent in a war zone such as Afghanistan than they are with law enforcement in a free republic. The sad state of affairs in this once great country. I still believe this is the greatest country on earth but the divide that creates the difference between us and them is shrinking fast.
Agreed. But we can't treat people from other countries the way we treat our own. That's inhumane.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:48 PM
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i agree but this will never happen, especially not to the judges. cops get away with rape and the worst thing that happens is they get demoted or transferred.

not hating on cops, just saying.
If we get away from the idea of voting for the lesser of two evils each election, it would happen. I know it is unlikely, but I'm not willing to say "never happen"....yet.
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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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Old 03-24-2014, 3:04 PM
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When SWAT raids the wrong house and shoots an innocent man they receive medals.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5484185

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A Minneapolis family is outraged that members of the SWAT team that mistakenly raided their house and fired upon them last December have been awarded medals for their bravery under fire.

Vang Khang and his family had the fright of a lifetime when they believed their home was being invaded by burglars, or worse. It was actually a SWAT team, conducting a high-risk search warrant -- on the wrong house.
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Old 03-24-2014, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SactoDoug View Post
Just another reason to fortify your home. Bars on the windows and steel security doors will go a long way to keeping people from being able to enter your home quickly.
best defense is a good offense.

booby traps are great.
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Because -ohmigosh- they can add their opinions, too?
Proof we can all comment on whatever we want no matter the topic at hand!
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPRAFAN View Post
"Gun owners beware. Squirt gun owners, that includes you. If a Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team SUSPECTS you of crime, you may receive a late-night visit from an armed SWAT team.

That’s right, an armed and militant SWAT team could trot right through your front door as you slumber this summer. No-knock warrants are increasingly used by military-style police units, like SWAT teams for drug raids. Unfortunately, SWAT teams can obtain these warrants too easily from judges and consequently do not always perform sufficient due diligence. As a result, tens of thousands of decent, law-abiding American citizens are surprised every year by a no-knock visit when the SWAT team gets it wrong.

While we do not know the exact number of wrongful No-Knock SWAT invasions, a 2006 article by Cato Institute policy analyst put the number at 40,000 a year! We must rally together and use our freedom of speech to protest such an atrocity . . . .

Think about it: When a SWAT team invades the wrong home in the middle of the night, as happened in the case of Tracy Ingle in 2008, the results can be bloody. SWAT team members barreled through Ingle’s main door and bedroom window under the cover of darkness. Understandably, Ingle thought he was being robbed and attempted to exercise his natural right to self-defense by reaching for what The New American describes as “a non-working gun.”

It wasn’t until after (shooting Ingle 9 times) that the SWAT team thought to verify Ingle’s identity by asking him if he was the criminal they were looking for named “Michael.” When they realized Ingle was not “Michael” but “Terry,” they rushed him to the hospital." Full article at link below . . .

http://townhall.com/columnists/katie...tm_campaign=nl

"Swatting" is a new pastime for angry neighbors and ex-girlfriends - you are an anonymous phone call away from a SWAT raid busting in your door . . . .
This has been posted. Argued and debunked on numerous occasions here.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:16 PM
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Well great. Me and my dog are likely screwwed. They'll shoot the pooch and I'll fire back thinking it has in fact hit the fan then I'll die and after that my family will get a lovely form letter apologizing, some media event will go on about how the department members "hearts go out to the victim (me) and his family" and that'll be that.

Ah well. All men know their doom, just not the hour. I suppose adding the method doesn't change much.
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Old 03-25-2014, 2:46 AM
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Does anybody know anyone who has been the object of a no-knock warrant? I'm guessing not because I've never seen one in 21 years of police work. It is possible, because there were some executed 10 or so years ago in our county, but the circumstances were so unique, I doubt I will ever see one.
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Old 03-25-2014, 6:11 AM
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Hmm, time to go buy that package of Bio-Hazard stickers.....better to have HazMat there first.
They don't shoot Doggies.
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Old 03-25-2014, 6:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Patrick Aherne View Post
Does anybody know anyone who has been the object of a no-knock warrant? I'm guessing not because I've never seen one in 21 years of police work. It is possible, because there were some executed 10 or so years ago in our county, but the circumstances were so unique, I doubt I will ever see one.
It was also mentioned that regular warrants are virtually no different as they can opt to break in the door immediately upon knocking. This has been shown to be true on video.
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Old 03-25-2014, 6:26 AM
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A sign on the door saying "wired with explosives" might make em think twice also
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Old 03-25-2014, 7:28 AM
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It was also mentioned that regular warrants are virtually no different as they can opt to break in the door immediately upon knocking. This has been shown to be true on video.

So, my experience of serving warrants when part of a regional SWAT team means nothing. Got it. Glad I came here to learn I've been doing it wrong.

BTW, no one has answered regarding knowing anybody who has had a no-knock served on them in CA. There's a reason for that, but it's not because you're all law-abiding citizens. Although, I suspect most are. No-knocks are like Mr. Snuffleuf***us: I know they exist, but no one's ever seen one.
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Old 03-25-2014, 7:31 AM
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Read an article one time about how to" "Anit-Swat" you home. Many suggestions.

The main one: to make the entrance an "L" shaped hallway. Best way would be along side a picture window, you'll be able to see them; there is no cover.

Just sayin.
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Old 03-25-2014, 7:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
best defense is a good offense.

booby traps are great.
I'm not sure if you are joking or not but booby traps are illegal. Even on your own property. Even if some dumb *** breaks in and does something stupid.
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Old 03-25-2014, 7:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
I have a no soliciting sign on my front door so I am good.
You might need a Gun Free Zone sign
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The average Calgunner is afraid to scratch his gun; so I don't see the point to these torture tests.
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Old 03-25-2014, 7:34 AM
stilly stilly is offline
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Originally Posted by CPRAFAN View Post
"Gun owners beware. Squirt gun owners, that includes you. If a Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team SUSPECTS you of crime, you may receive a late-night visit from an armed SWAT team.

That’s right, an armed and militant SWAT team could trot right through your front door as you slumber this summer. No-knock warrants are increasingly used by military-style police units, like SWAT teams for drug raids. Unfortunately, SWAT teams can obtain these warrants too easily from judges and consequently do not always perform sufficient due diligence. As a result, tens of thousands of decent, law-abiding American citizens are surprised every year by a no-knock visit when the SWAT team gets it wrong.

While we do not know the exact number of wrongful No-Knock SWAT invasions, a 2006 article by Cato Institute policy analyst put the number at 40,000 a year! We must rally together and use our freedom of speech to protest such an atrocity . . . .

Think about it: When a SWAT team invades the wrong home in the middle of the night, as happened in the case of Tracy Ingle in 2008, the results can be bloody. SWAT team members barreled through Ingle’s main door and bedroom window under the cover of darkness. Understandably, Ingle thought he was being robbed and attempted to exercise his natural right to self-defense by reaching for what The New American describes as “a non-working gun.”

It wasn’t until after (shooting Ingle 9 times) that the SWAT team thought to verify Ingle’s identity by asking him if he was the criminal they were looking for named “Michael.” When they realized Ingle was not “Michael” but “Terry,” they rushed him to the hospital." Full article at link below . . .

http://townhall.com/columnists/katie...tm_campaign=nl

"Swatting" is a new pastime for angry neighbors and ex-girlfriends - you are an anonymous phone call away from a SWAT raid busting in your door . . . .
So this happens 40k times a year and there is only ONE case to cite?
Is it me or does belong in OT?
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Old 03-25-2014, 7:48 AM
LiferLance LiferLance is offline
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I have seen a few "no-knocks" served but it's usually a regular warrant and the police on scene see something that makes going in without warning needed. I lived spring valley and tweakers that were actively cooking when the cops showed got the no knock. Every time I saw one I always asked about why was up and the cops always were upfront about serving a warrant and that the situation made them serve it "agressively".
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Old 03-25-2014, 8:32 AM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
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While the cited Cato Institute report includes an assertion that 40,000 of these raids occurred each year, they do not provide sourcing or attribution for that stat. They say, "These increasingly frequent raids, 40,000 per year by one estimate...."

They may as well have said, "a guy I know has a friend whose cousin was in a gun store and heard a guy say...."

http://www.cato.org/publications/whi...-raids-america
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Old 03-25-2014, 8:59 AM
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Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
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I've not heard of these around here. Police departments know 1/2 of all homes have weapons in them. It's an unnecessary risk to the officers.

Surround and come out with your hands up seems to be the regular treatment. Then send in some tear gas to burn them out, like Dorner in Big Bear. Maybe someone can post 'recent' examples of this in California?
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Old 03-25-2014, 9:05 AM
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Artema Artema is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick Aherne View Post
So, my experience of serving warrants when part of a regional SWAT team means nothing. Got it. Glad I came here to learn I've been doing it wrong.
Your call, but you sound like you're being harsh on yourself.
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Old 03-25-2014, 9:39 AM
BruceR BruceR is offline
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Back in 1998, the film "Enemy of the State", with Will Smith and Gene Hackman, seemed so futuristic as to be impossible to happen here in the US. Now, we *do* know the US government has extensive abilities to track us all over the grid. Likewise, we common citizens can now replicate the defenses Hackman's character used to foil the feds -- as it should be. One can now set up multiple defenses to prepare for unwelcome visitors. We also know enough (some of us anyway) to not reveal so much information about our lives, at least not in any electronic medium.
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