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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 03-07-2014, 7:35 PM
calicarlos619 calicarlos619 is offline
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Default New AR15 build having misfire issues

So I went to the range and fired 100rds and had 10 misfires, all rds had a decent firing pin indent after misfires. After charging the handle to try to eject the round, the round stayed and therefore resulted in a double feed. My Ar15 build is a Noveske Recon barrel 1/7 twist, Vltor upper w/ BCM BCG and charging handle, Anderson carbine buffer tube kit. Lower is a JD Machine with RRA LPK. Also, I've been using federal.223 55gr. Ammo in a 10 rd metal magazine. I lubed up the BCG prior to shooting. Im not an expert but I was thinking .223 rem rds are underpowdered and that I need to move up to a 5.56 nato rd or 62gr minimum. Also I probably need a heavier buffer? Im thinking of using my pmags next time with the same ammo and then trying different ammo. Here some pics of ammo, mag, and build.

Last edited by calicarlos619; 05-27-2014 at 9:01 AM..
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2014, 7:38 PM
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Who installed the hammer spring?

5.56 NATO would have a harder primer, and would probably increase the problem you are experiencing.

Your buffer has nothing to do with it.

I'm going with hammer spring not installed correctly.
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Old 03-07-2014, 7:53 PM
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I did just took a pic
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Old 03-07-2014, 7:56 PM
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:12 PM
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My hammer spring is in correct
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:15 PM
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Is head space & timing a possibility?
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:23 PM
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Try better mags, some that you know work. Is that a cproducts mag? I always had issues with those mags.
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:24 PM
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Try a new hammer spring. I am having the same issue (no extraction prob though) with a PSA LPK. I bought a new hammer spring. I haven't installed it yet but I do think that is the issue since the PSA spring seems lighter than my other AR's.
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:25 PM
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Not sure what kind of mag it is I believe it came with one of my other rifles
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:25 PM
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I load .223 and I've shot rems, they should work fine.
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:25 PM
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I dont think the mags would cause a misfire though
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:33 PM
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Got pictures of indents?
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:45 PM
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No, sunday im going back out to the range will have pics
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:49 PM
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All 10 of the misfires were reinserted in the mag and ended up firing except one and a few went through 3x
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Old 03-07-2014, 9:04 PM
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Actuallyfound the round its in the pics
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Old 03-07-2014, 9:27 PM
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Well I can't figure out why you would have so many misfires other than bad ammo..? But in regards to ejecting, even if you pull the charging handle slowly, the round/casing should pop out of the upper with ease.
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Old 03-07-2014, 9:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calicarlos619 View Post
Is head space & timing a possibility?
I also question headspace. Did you verify it passed both a go gauge and a field gauge when you built it?
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Old 03-07-2014, 9:48 PM
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Did not do any head space and gauge test
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Old 03-07-2014, 9:57 PM
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Sounds like more then one problem, but iT sounds like your under gassed. MAKE SURE YOU GAS BLOCK IS LINED UP AND MAKE SURE YOUR GAS BOCK IS NOT ALUMINUM.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calicarlos619 View Post
Is head space & timing a possibility?
Remove the buffer and post a picture of the front face which rides against the carrier.
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  #21  
Old 03-08-2014, 12:34 AM
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Noveske gas block with noveske barrel factory barrel
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2014, 12:38 AM
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This is what I want to see from your gun after firing:

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Old 03-08-2014, 6:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
This is what I want to see from your gun after firing:


Randall,

I wonder if that why my CMMG upper is having cycleing issues!? Could it be a buffer issue?


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Old 03-08-2014, 6:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calicarlos619 View Post
So I went to the range and fired 100rds and had 10 misfires, all rds had a decent firing pin indent after misfires. After charging the handle to try to eject the round, the round stayed and therefore resulted in a double feed. My Ar15 build is a Noveske Recon barrel 1/7 twist, Vltor upper w/ BCM BCG and charging handle, Anderson carbine buffer tube kit. Lower is a JD Machine with RRA LPK. Also, I've been using federal.223 55gr. Ammo in a 10 rd metal magazine. I lubed up the BCG prior to shooting. Im not an expert but I was thinking .223 rem rds are underpowdered and that I need to move up to a 5.56 nato rd or 62gr minimum. Also I probably need a heavier buffer? Im thinking of using my pmags next time with the same ammo and then trying different ammo. Here some pics of ammo, mag, and build.
calicarlos619,

I'm no expert either but since the spent casing didn't eject I might guess is your chamber is dirty. That's what I going through currently with my CMMG upper. Perhaps your extractor claw is dirty to and needs some scrubbing. In addition you might remove the firing pin and wipe it clean with a patch. ome people like to oil the pin but I don't. As far as you ammo goes your using good Federal rounds so I think you can eliminate that possibility. Right now I've stopped using PMC Bronze cuz it seems all my sorrows are coming from that brand.

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Old 03-08-2014, 7:24 AM
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You said you pulled the charge handle, but the round did not eject. Was this just once, or do most of your miss fires happen with a round stuck ?
Possibly an extractor issue.
Are the missfired rounds hard to extract ?
Probably a chamber issue - check with go / no go gauges.
When you have a miss fire, is the bolt carrier fully into battery ? Can you bump it in another 1/8" or so with the forward assist ?
This could be a host of things- buffer, feed ramps missmatch, spring, mags..
Last, but not least... Is your ammo reliable ? Perhaps try another batch/mfg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
This is what I want to see from your gun after firing:

Randall - First off, thanks for all the info and help over the years.
Buffer 'H' in the middle of your post looks chewed up by running into the buffer stop pin. What causes this ? How you do fix it ? If upper and barrel ext. are mated correctly and bolt carrier is within spec, I don't see how this can happen. But I have seen rifles with this problem.

Last edited by Rusty Scabbard; 03-08-2014 at 7:31 AM..
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:38 AM
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Pics up with buffer, seems to be just fine after 200 rds.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:50 AM
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You said you pulled the charge handle, but the round did not eject. Was this just once, or do most of your miss fires happen with a round stuck ?*
Possibly an extractor issue.
Are the missfired rounds hard to extract ?*
Probably a chamber issue - check with go / no go gauges.
When you have a miss fire, is the bolt carrier fully into battery ? Can you bump it in another 1/8" or so with the forward assist ?*
This could be a host of things- buffer, feed ramps missmatch, spring, mags..
Last, but not least... Is your ammo reliable ? Perhaps try another batch/mfg.

After misfire, 3x times the round didnt extract after charging the handle, resulting in a double feed. I did notice when I enter a magazine and rode the bolt forward it seemed not to go all the way forward into the barrel, but then I tapped the FA and it moved a little bit but not where I thought it should be. Most of my misfires happened with the first round. Im thinking head space issue at this point?
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:27 PM
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If you drive all they way into battery with the forward assist, is it then hard to extract the unfired round ? If this is the case, I suspect a chamber issue.
If not, perhaps it's a feedramp hang up or mag problem. Are the unfired round's projectiles gouged up ?
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Old 03-09-2014, 4:06 PM
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So I took her back out to the range today and we believe its the ammo, I purchased through PSA because the casings all look like reloads. I compared them with some other 223 rounds and they look like crap. Then I ran other ammo through my build and they worked flawlessly. Then my cousin ran some of my ammo through his ar15 and he had some misfires.
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Old 03-09-2014, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calicarlos619 View Post
So I took her back out to the range today and we believe its the ammo, I purchased through PSA because the casings all look like reloads. I compared them with some other 223 rounds and they look like crap. Then I ran other ammo through my build and they worked flawlessly. Then my cousin ran some of my ammo through his ar15 and he had some misfires.
PSA does not sell Federal reloads as far as I know? Glad you fixed your issue, enjoy!
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Old 03-09-2014, 6:03 PM
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Yeah I didnt think they were reloads either, however you can tell these are reloads
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Old 03-09-2014, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah I didnt think they were reloads either, however you can tell these are reloads
How? Because they don't look super shiny and new?

I have a lot of that same Federal stuff and my own reloads look newer.

The factory cases are more tarnished and dingy looking.

Id be interested in seeing some pictures of the primer and case neck areas.

Id be surprised if the retailer tried to pass off reloads as factory ammo unless there was some foul play somewhere else.
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Old 03-09-2014, 6:58 PM
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Whatever it is, I tried other rounds and they seemed to work fine. Possibly those misfires were underpowdered.
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Old 03-09-2014, 7:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calicarlos619 View Post
Whatever it is, I tried other rounds and they seemed to work fine. Possibly those misfires were underpowdered.
Not really sure how ignition problems would have anything to do with that...

If it is in fact factory ammo, I would call Federal and bring it to their attention.

I've shot thousands of rounds of that stuff and never once had an issue.
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Old 03-09-2014, 8:07 PM
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Quote:
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Not really sure how ignition problems would have anything to do with that...

If it is in fact factory ammo, I would call Federal and bring it to their attention.

I've shot thousands of rounds of that stuff and never once had an issue.
I'm with him on this one ^^^ either the loads or primers were bad in that lot and should be addressed, or some how reloads made there way into Federal boxes, and were sold by a big retailer, which is a big No No.
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Old 03-10-2014, 5:24 AM
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I am also no expert so maybe others can step in and correct me if I'm wrong:

The primer you showed above in your OP pictures does not look like it received a full strike, so your problem is NOT likely the ammo, and probably shouldn't be considered a misfire either. The dimple in that primer is either a light strike or was caused by the tip of the double fed round as you described manually double feeding a round in your OP.

Does this mean other ammo might work despite the problem? Sure, but don't count on that gun until you further diagnose the issue.

Are you 100% sure that the round was completely in battery and the trigger broke on those "misfires". That's the point to start the diagnosis IMO. Good luck.

Also, the crappy looking rounds could just have annealed necks maybe?
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Old 03-10-2014, 9:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Scabbard View Post
Buffer 'H' in the middle of your post looks chewed up by running into the buffer stop pin. What causes this ? How you do fix it ? If upper and barrel ext. are mated correctly and bolt carrier is within spec, I don't see how this can happen. But I have seen rifles with this problem.
Buffer detent related misfires:
Either the carrier is too short or the buffer detent hole is located too far to the rear.
When either of these conditions exist, the buffer comes to rest on the detent and the detent keeps the weights inside the buffer from hammering the carrier closed.
It is normal for the bolt carrier to bounce off of the barrel extension after impacting it.
In a proper configuration, the weights inside the buffer will be flying forward just after the carrier bounces rearward.
The moving weights hammer the carrier closed again before the hammer tries to strike the firing pin.
If the carrier is not fully closed, the firing pin will not get fully hit by the hammer.
If the buffer detent prevents that, you could have a carrier that is open by 0.030" or so that will catch more of the hammer energy instead of the firing pin/primer taking all the hammer's impact energy.
The hammer energy gets wasted into the carrier and the result is a misfire.

The test for this condition is to remove the buffer detent and see if the misfires go away.
If the misfires are eliminated by detent removal, you can simply leave it out or you can mill the detent hole oversized and sleeve it back down while relocating it forward.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 03-10-2014 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calicarlos619 View Post
Pics up with buffer, seems to be just fine after 200 rds.
On my AR, like you, I had a number of Light Primer Strikes on the first day, and I was shooting the best ammo money could buy to devirginize my rifle.

I checked my Hammer Spring, it was installed correctly. With the exception of my Barrel length, all my stuff is mil-spec and correctly installed.

Strangely enough, after 4 trips to the range now and hundreds of rounds, the Light Primer Strikes never happened again after that first day, and I certainly hope it stays that way.
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Old 03-13-2014, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calicarlos619 View Post
So I took her back out to the range today and we believe its the ammo, I purchased through PSA because the casings all look like reloads. I compared them with some other 223 rounds and they look like crap. Then I ran other ammo through my build and they worked flawlessly. Then my cousin ran some of my ammo through his ar15 and he had some misfires.
Federal ammo has case annealing and they do not polish the annealing marks off because the military wants to be able to visually inspect the rounds for this. Commercial rounds have the cases polished after they are annealed. Federal rounds are overruns from the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant. If you look you'll most likely see "LC 14" stamped on the head of the casing. LC for Lake City and 14 for 2014 production. If they XM855 you'll also see the NATO cross stamped on them.



That discoloration is a good thing.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:21 AM
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I can't comment on the light primer strikes if the gun is assembled correctly as indicated.

My first day out with two brand new AR's they both had rounds stick in the chamber, and I mean stuck hard. Since that experience I have lubed the chamber interior with FrogLube paste - undoubtedly there are other lubes that will work also but that's what I had handy so that's what I used. No more stuck chamber problem... EVER. I coat a spent shell or dummy round with a light coating of the lube and then work it in and out of the chamber several times to make sure it gets evenly distributed. I do this now on every gun as the final stage of my cleaning and lube process. As mentioned, no more stuck case, ever. Other lubes MAY also work, but I KNOW the FL works so I keep using it for that.

New chambers can be dry and may have a little residual roughness and benefit from both break-in and lubrication. So I am doubly sure to perform this step on all newly built guns before the first range trip. It seems to work. I suppose it's like frying an egg in a pan. Try it dry, then try it with a bit of butter in the pan, see which one the egg sticks to.
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