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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #81  
Old 03-03-2014, 2:19 PM
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It's just over 1" center-to-center, and the only group I have lying around since moving - not my best or what I often do.

The gunsmith that bedded the stock said this about it in an email after test firing: "I had a buddy with me that is active National guard that qualified expert with a M1a, (M14) just a couple of months ago with me. He also owns one. Any way I shot it at 100 yrds with several 1 inch groups, after the typical two or three flyers of shooting a new gun that you are not familiar with! The guy with me shot it and easily shot to inch groups. "

Will I shoot a sub-MOA group every time I go to the range? No. But the rifle is capable of it, and it often happens.


Last edited by hbogart; 03-03-2014 at 2:23 PM.. Reason: clarification
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  #82  
Old 03-03-2014, 2:40 PM
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Three shot group you can cover with a Nickel ... yes, it's repeatable.

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  #83  
Old 03-03-2014, 3:01 PM
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Well then..... you should try a M1 Garand The M1A will feel like your AR.
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  #84  
Old 03-03-2014, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks95134 View Post
The 5.56 is great for CQB and close range.

Not much good beyond 200 yards though -- spray and pray then waste a lot of lead then.

The 7.62 in M1A is accurate out to 600 yards. But on any given day of combat you would be unlikely to shoot more than 20 or 40 rounds if you are aiming carefully with one shot one kill. It is NOT a spray and pray weapon.
My intent is not to make this into a caliber argument but ALL Marines qualify with the M16/M4 at 200M, 300M and 500M. Real life, it does a great job at those distances.
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  #85  
Old 03-03-2014, 4:45 PM
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Ya'll making this AR vs. M14 thing too big of a deal:

Those of you who put Coca-Cola in your whiskey get the AR, those who drink their whiskey straight shoot M14's.

Simple.
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  #86  
Old 03-03-2014, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post

Those of you who put Coca-Cola in your whiskey get the AR, those who drink their whiskey straight shoot M14's.

Simple.
Neat

Last edited by H2O MAN; 03-03-2014 at 5:12 PM..
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  #87  
Old 03-03-2014, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Wallabing View Post
I spent all day shooting 80 rounds from a friends M1A. It was nice and all.

After that, I picked up my AR15 and realized how drastically lighter and more comfortable it was to hold the AR15, quicker to point and aquire, and the recoil of the 223, after shooting 308 felt like nothing.

I realized what I took for granted, I feel right at home with my AR15 today, and this only reinforces it.
Jeez, my girl won't even say that. She LOVES the M1A and said, "uh the AR's ok but that M1, that's a real gun!"

FYI she's 95lb's.
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  #88  
Old 03-03-2014, 10:01 PM
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My M1A I got used. Cleaned it and somehow took the rear sight off. Got it back on, took it to the range and 6" 50yards no problem with 40 year old 150gr ammo. its more comfortable than my AR I think. I havent put $$ into my AR trigger so that could be my problem.
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  #89  
Old 03-04-2014, 6:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3thodBombZ View Post
......Take an M1A and an AR15 at 50 yards and shoot a target 6 to 10 times in under 2 seconds and see which one has more efficient recoil manangment. AR gauranteed.

Take an AR15 and an M1A at 800 yards both with match grade ammo, see which one you can shoot a tighter grouping on target with 4 shots in under 4 seconds. Probably the AR......
WHY would anyone EVER need to do either of those things in REAL life???

The AR doesn't have, "more efficient recoil management". What it has, due to it's MUCH less powerful round, is simply LESS recoil period.

Heck while you're at it why not throw in a comparison about how much easier it is to pick up the AR with just your pinky?
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  #90  
Old 03-04-2014, 6:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
Ya'll making this AR vs. M14 thing too big of a deal:

Those of you who put Coca-Cola in your whiskey get the AR, those who drink their whiskey straight shoot M14's.

Simple.
From what I've seen on the range it's more like the "Nintendo" generation vs the "I can not only remember when Kennedy was shot but can also remember that I voted Nixon" generation.
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  #91  
Old 03-04-2014, 7:28 AM
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She liked the M1A :dunno:
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  #92  
Old 03-04-2014, 8:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
WHY would anyone EVER need to do either of those things in REAL life???

The AR doesn't have, "more efficient recoil management". What it has, due to it's MUCH less powerful round, is simply LESS recoil period.

Heck while you're at it why not throw in a comparison about how much easier it is to pick up the AR with just your pinky?
Ummmmm...... in case you're faced with multiple threats at different ranges???????????? Use your brain....

Putting more rounds on target as quickly and as accurate as possible keeps you alive....

Thats what the AR was designed for, on top of being able to carry more ammunition...

Exactly why the .300blk was created. Just as efficient recoil managment as 5.56 except you're putting more muzzle energy into the bullet thus more knockdown power... Its called having a weapon platform thats a jack of all trades. M1A isn't that weapon.
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Last edited by M3thodBombZ; 03-04-2014 at 8:45 AM..
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  #93  
Old 03-04-2014, 8:48 AM
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The AR is easier to pick up with your pinky. That really tells you all you need to know.
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  #94  
Old 03-04-2014, 8:51 AM
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Originally Posted by M3thodBombZ View Post

Putting more rounds on target as quickly and as accurate as possible keeps you alive....
The M14 rifleman can do it quickly and accurately... normally with just one round per target.
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  #95  
Old 03-04-2014, 9:14 AM
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Originally Posted by M3thodBombZ View Post
Ummmmm...... in case you're faced with multiple threats at different ranges???????????? Use your brain....

Putting more rounds on target as quickly and as accurate as possible keeps you alive....

Thats what the AR was designed for, on top of being able to carry more ammunition...

Exactly why the .300blk was created. Just as efficient recoil managment as 5.56 except you're putting more muzzle energy into the bullet thus more knockdown power... Its called having a weapon platform thats a jack of all trades. M1A isn't that weapon.
Me, i'd rather have ten rounds of 308 than ten rounds of 223, and be able to drop mags freely. Use your brain...
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  #96  
Old 03-04-2014, 9:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
Ya'll making this AR vs. M14 thing too big of a deal:

Those of you who put Coca-Cola in your whiskey get the AR, those who drink their whiskey straight shoot M14's.

Simple.
How about:

AR = sport bike
M14 = harley

Anyone who has ever bore witness to one of those arguments will see many parallels going on here. More recoil, noise, steel, manliness is better vs. More speed, lightweight, efficiency is better.
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  #97  
Old 03-04-2014, 9:41 AM
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AR = Econo car
M14 = Luxury cruiser
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  #98  
Old 03-04-2014, 9:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3thodBombZ View Post
Ummmmm...... in case you're faced with multiple threats at different ranges???????????? Use your brain....

Putting more rounds on target as quickly and as accurate as possible keeps you alive....

Thats what the AR was designed for, on top of being able to carry more ammunition...

Exactly why the .300blk was created. Just as efficient recoil managment as 5.56 except you're putting more muzzle energy into the bullet thus more knockdown power... Its called having a weapon platform thats a jack of all trades. M1A isn't that weapon.
Ummmmmmmm...NO! You clearly stated in both your examples that you were putting said rounds into a SINGLE target each time. Please provide examples of when you (or anyone you know) ever had to preform the actions you described in combat (COD doesn't count).

Even accepting the requirement for a followup shot to finish a bad guy off, there are damn FEW people in the world who would need more then two .308 rounds to the (non-armored) body to stay down. So 6-10 shots is WAY outside the realm of possibility for an M1A armed individual.

By your logic it's a wonder anybody ever survived combat prior to the mouse gun being invented. Being saddled with the .308 and 30-06 rounds for all those years must have been near impossible to deal with.

You might want to spend some time researching your claims of why the AR was developed, because shooting bad guys fast at 800 yards wasn't one of them.

Plus using terms like "recoil management" in the wrong context, doesn't make you sound smarter. "Recoil management" is what the shooter does, no matter what weapon/caliber they are shooting, and isn't applicable to the round nor the weapon.

Feel free to explain what "trade" it is that you think the M1A can't handle.
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  #99  
Old 03-04-2014, 9:47 AM
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Originally Posted by H2O MAN View Post
AR = Econo car
M14 = Luxury cruiser
Yep
AR=Pinto
M14=Mustang
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  #100  
Old 03-04-2014, 10:02 AM
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I just saw a documentary on the Colorado shooting and one of the wounds that a victim described was just horrible. I would NOT like to get shot by that AR. Sure, that M1A would kill you but the AR leaves you on the ground suffering until you die. She didn't die because she was rescued in time and took her to a hospital right away. But out in the field, I seriously doubt they could have patched her up. She explained how the round hit her (don't know where ) and pretty much dumped ALL her intestines, stomach, and such out on the ground. I'd take getting shot by the M1A over the AR any day! The M1A would leave you dead on the ground not feeling a thing after.

I don't know, it seems like the AR does so much more "gore" damage to a person. I also have seen a photo of a Mexican cartel member and his face pretty much exploded when a 5.56 round hit him in the back of his head. That one I am sure died right away.
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  #101  
Old 03-04-2014, 10:11 AM
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The OP's experience shouldn't come as some big revelation. You were shooting a 22in barrel 308 compared to a 14.5-16in lighter-weight barrel 556. In no way is this an apples to apples comparison

Last edited by TacticalChihuahua; 03-04-2014 at 10:27 AM..
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  #102  
Old 03-04-2014, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post

I'd take getting shot by the M1A over the AR any day!
OK ... be sure and video tape the event.

On second thought, please don't tape it.

Last edited by H2O MAN; 03-04-2014 at 10:14 AM..
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  #103  
Old 03-04-2014, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by M3thodBombZ View Post
Take an AR15 and an M1A at 800 yards both with match grade ammo, see which one you can shoot a tighter grouping on target with 4 shots in under 4 seconds. Probably the AR.
The AR15 is not effective solution at 800 yards and never has been. The terminal ballistics out of even a 24in barrel suck at that distance. There isn't significant tissue damage at that range and 5.56 essentially becomes a glorified .22 hole puncher. 556 is a highly velocity dependent round in order for it to fragment and cause the damage that it is known for. 556 is also effected by wind and other factors at 800 yards and is not a good solution for long range shooting due to the small light bullet. 308 on the other hand is

It seems like you think the AR15 is the all arounder. But it's not. It is a battle rifle, and in certain configurations, can serve as a DMR rifle for distances out to about 250-300 yards. It's not that it can't reach out past that range, it's just that terminal ballistics suffer greatly. Anything past that and you need to step up to a larger caliber. I love my AR15's but I also know their limitations

Last edited by TacticalChihuahua; 03-04-2014 at 10:38 AM..
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  #104  
Old 03-04-2014, 11:06 AM
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If you are interested in what the bullet does check this out. Either way I don't want to get hit by one, nor do I want to do this to another human being. However, should the time come and depending on the requirement, running on foot, or defending my home, I will plan accordingly.

I own both platforms and actually multiple of both but I'm at sticking it out at home I will be going to a .308 platform, but if I find myself on the run it will be the AR platform I grab. Simply because I can carry more rounds. My assumptions are while on the run the luxury of a planned 800 yard shot are out the window and it will be a 200 yard or less fight.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=267737
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  #105  
Old 03-04-2014, 11:33 AM
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I really think this whole "carry more rounds" and "effects on human targets" is overrated for us civilian shooters.
Seriously, we are mainly target shooters and plinkers. Just shoot what you enjoy. If some extremely unlikely SHTF event unfolds, you'll be well served by whichever rifle you prefer, as you're more likely to be proficient with it than a "better" rifle that you don't like taking out and having fun and practicing with.

HOW MANY ROUNDS CAN YOU CARRY (from your car to the bench).
WHAT'S THE EFFECT ON THE TARGET (these paper targets are tough).
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  #106  
Old 03-04-2014, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Standard View Post
If some extremely unlikely SHTF event unfolds, you'll be well served by whichever rifle you prefer, as you're more likely to be proficient with it than a "better" rifle that you don't like taking out and having fun and practicing with.
Yes, and the possibility to team up with, and work with others that are proficient with rifles that are not the same as yours is real. Also, I really don't care what rifle you choose, just make sure that you are proficient with the one you have, and it helps if you have a basic understanding of other rifles that are not like yours.
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  #107  
Old 03-04-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by H2O MAN View Post
OK ... be sure and video tape the event.

On second thought, please don't tape it.
Shot with an M1A = dead within seconds

Shot with an AR = not dead until you probably bleed out.

Which one seems more painful? Because, even though the .223 round is small, I am sure it still hurts like a SOB when it hits you.

I mean would you rather be on the floor with your intestines out for who knows how long? Or would you rather be dead with a .308 at center mass within seconds?

BTW if anybody wants to see the 5.56 wound in Mexico I was talking about, here is the link: Beware though, It is VERY graphic.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_vJcKa90vLkg/S2...4/image006.jpg

Last edited by BigPun762; 03-04-2014 at 12:38 PM..
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  #108  
Old 03-04-2014, 12:37 PM
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I would rather be alive and make the bad guy dead.
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  #109  
Old 03-04-2014, 12:54 PM
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Well you're dead either way pretty much if you get hit at center mass with both. Just one is quicker and less painful than the other.
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  #110  
Old 03-04-2014, 1:13 PM
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I wouldn't want to be hit by either, but if say I was being shot at and all I had for cover was pine trees 10 to 12 inches through. I'd rather be shot at with the 223 than the 308.
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Old 03-04-2014, 2:26 PM
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Damn you guys. I love my AR15s, absolutely love them. They are a pleasure to shoot. Look at my avatar and you'll see that I am really into ARs. However, the M1A is a real rifle, raw, deadly and sweet all at the same time. I just bought a loaded medium barrel today. The M1A is the Hemi Cuda of guns, if you don't understand why that is cool, I can't explain it to you.
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  #112  
Old 03-04-2014, 2:33 PM
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

WHAT HE SAID!
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  #113  
Old 03-04-2014, 3:25 PM
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Whatever I can do with my A2, I can do with my M1A. Thing is, I look better doin' it with my M1A. AR's don't turn heads or get you nods at the range. It's not something I live for, but it feels good. Oh, and when I fire the 10th round and then continue with 11 through 18 or so, that too feels pretty good. I show up and I do offhand what others cannot do with glass and bags. I owe a little of that to my M1A. Those sights, oh those sights! Once you get at home with them, boy look out.
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  #114  
Old 03-04-2014, 3:40 PM
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The M14 rifleman can do it quickly and accurately... normally with just one round per target.
Thinkinging I need to move south where people seem to be a little more reasonable.Earned half my leg points with the boomstick and my highest leg match score.
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  #115  
Old 03-04-2014, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mskochinski View Post
If you are interested in what the bullet does check this out. Either way I don't want to get hit by one, nor do I want to do this to another human being. However, should the time come and depending on the requirement, running on foot, or defending my home, I will plan accordingly.

I own both platforms and actually multiple of both but I'm at sticking it out at home I will be going to a .308 platform, but if I find myself on the run it will be the AR platform I grab. Simply because I can carry more rounds. My assumptions are while on the run the luxury of a planned 800 yard shot are out the window and it will be a 200 yard or less fight.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=267737
This.

I have both an AR(s) and an M1A. I looooove the BOOOM!!! of the M1A. It is a very, satisfying rifle to shoot. I dunno - there's just something about certain guns, that je ne sais quoi which make them a joy to shoot, and it isn't even necessarily a function of how pleasant, accurate, or user-friendly they are. My AR, in the hands of the same shooter, is likely easier to hit with and faster than the M1A, seeing as how it's got optics and such on it. It's also considerably lighter, shorter, and yes, more ergonomic compared to the M1A.

To me, it's like the difference between driving a modern car, with all the electronic controls, touch-screen, high gas efficiency, iPhone port, satellite everything versus driving a classic 1960's muscle car.
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  #116  
Old 03-04-2014, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
Shot with an M1A = dead within seconds

Shot with an AR = not dead until you probably bleed out.

Which one seems more painful? Because, even though the .223 round is small, I am sure it still hurts like a SOB when it hits you.

I mean would you rather be on the floor with your intestines out for who knows how long? Or would you rather be dead with a .308 at center mass within seconds?

BTW if anybody wants to see the 5.56 wound in Mexico I was talking about, here is the link: Beware though, It is VERY graphic.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_vJcKa90vLkg/S2...4/image006.jpg
LOL - he's still rocking a flip-phone.

Dang - that sure wasn't pretty. Closed casket for sure.
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  #117  
Old 03-04-2014, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Wallabing View Post
I spent all day shooting 80 rounds from a friends M1A. It was nice and all.

After that, I picked up my AR15 and realized how drastically lighter and more comfortable it was to hold the AR15, quicker to point and aquire, and the recoil of the 223, after shooting 308 felt like nothing.

I realized what I took for granted, I feel right at home with my AR15 today, and this only reinforces it.
AMEN TO THAT! I agree 100%

Stoner was a genius, and the AR is simplicity and accuracy in one nice package!
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Old 03-04-2014, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
WHY would anyone EVER need to do either of those things in REAL life???

The AR doesn't have, "more efficient recoil management". What it has, due to it's MUCH less powerful round, is simply LESS recoil period.

Heck while you're at it why not throw in a comparison about how much easier it is to pick up the AR with just your pinky?
Well said.

You do something like that in an across the course match, (10 rounds in 1 minute with a mag change) and that's why M1a's aren't seen as much any longer, especially at the trophy stand.

The op wasn't trying to discuss killing people, he was just commenting at how ergonomic and pleasant it was shooting an AR.

Why does every friggin thread get turned into a who's got a bigger dick?? Some of you guys are friggin off your rockers.
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Old 03-05-2014, 5:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
Well said.

You do something like that in an across the course match, (10 rounds in 1 minute with a mag change) and that's why M1a's aren't seen as much any longer, especially at the trophy stand.

The op wasn't trying to discuss killing people, he was just commenting at how ergonomic and pleasant it was shooting an AR.

Why does every friggin thread get turned into a who's got a bigger dick?? Some of you guys are friggin off your rockers.
And I was coming from an efficient standpoint between the two rifles with my opinion being an AR is more efficient. On top of the fact most of the commenters laugh at the op for liking a gun with less recoil. I say they're shooting bigger guns to make up for what they lack in their pants just like guys driving big trucks who have no practical use for them
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Old 03-05-2014, 6:04 AM
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I like the M1A but i gave up 762NATO and my FAL a few years back due
to price and availability of non magnetic ammo here in Socal.The 556
is cheaper and more plentiful,not to mention i can shoot it offhand
with much more accuracy. In hindsight it looks like a win win because
762 ammo is still harder to get and quite a bit more expensive. Pete
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