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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 02-24-2014, 8:44 AM
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Default 1-6X scope options

So i have been trying to decide what optic i want to put on my rifle if any. I have been using the iron sites for a while and when compared to a red dot style optic they are just as accurate. Maybe a little slower but im not so concerned about that.

I went out with a buddy the other day and really like his 1-4X adjustable optic. It was nice to have the adjustability but I would like just a little bit more magnification. I have started looking for 1-6X optics. So far i have these two:

Weaver 849813
http://www.weaveroptics.com/optics/r...aspa_tactical/

Primary Arms (wont be in stock until april-ish)
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-...p/paps1-6x.htm

I know PA is a favorite of many on the site, anyone used the Weaver Kaspa? and are there any other I should check out? want to stay under the $400 range.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2014, 8:51 AM
Happyhappycamper Happyhappycamper is offline
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Vortex Razor HD II
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2014, 9:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Happyhappycamper View Post
Vortex Razor HD II
ya i wish

if i could afford it i would, but i would rather have a decent scope and more ammo that a bad *** scope that hangs out in the safe
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2014, 9:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89LT1 View Post
I know PA is a favorite of many on the site, anyone used the Weaver Kaspa? and are there any other I should check out? want to stay under the $400 range.

Thanks
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Originally Posted by Happyhappycamper View Post
Vortex Razor HD II
You can get a Razor HD II for around $400?

OP at $400 the new PA scope which will have true 1x + American Defense Mount should be great for you. In my personal experience a good mount is just as important as a good optic. I got a crappy mount on my XCR/Leupold Mark AR and it keeps on losing zero.
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2014, 9:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRydden224 View Post
You can get a Razor HD II for around $400?
$1,399.00 from the PA site: https://www.primaryarms.com/VortexRa.../rzr-16003.htm

is there a different one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRydden224 View Post
OP at $400 the new PA scope which will have true 1x + American Defense Mount should be great for you. In my personal experience a good mount is just as important as a good optic. I got a crappy mount on my XCR/Leupold Mark AR and it keeps on losing zero.
you are talking about the PA link in the first post?

thanks for the advice!
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2014, 10:29 AM
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I've never seen a Vortex Razor HD II ~$400. $1000+ yes.

Also heard good things around PA 1-6x and would probably go that route if only...they had them in. Problem is, inventory seems to be feast or famine. All or nothing. 1-6X seems to straddle a pricing line. You can find good 1-4x in that price range but 1-6X prices jump quickly. I'd rather have a good 1-4x than a not so good 1-6x. I would wait to see what PA inventory looks like (next month or so) and have a backup plan. My impression is PA 1-6x is probably best value in that range.

Also, I don't know if I'm violating CG protocol by posting an ar15.com link (sorry if so) but I did find the reference table from here quite useful. Giving credit where credit is due.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/42...ew_thread.html

Last edited by Cyberion; 02-24-2014 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:59 AM
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OP - I also would like to hear feedback on on the Weaver. Every Weaver I have picked up has impressed me. The glass is good and the features are decent.

I'd love to find a 1-6x for my AR myself, but they are almost elusive for under $400.
I may get the Vortex Crossfire II 1-4x
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...ex-moa-reticle
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:07 AM
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My apologies I missed the $400 reference, but if that is your budget for a scope & mount then you are better off with iron sights until you can save up for a proper optic.

If there is one thing I have come to hate about this sport it is shoddy optics and you do get what you pay for in most cases. Granted there are exceptions to that, but there are a lot more cheaper optics on the market that just fail or suffer from eye box issues etc than there are high end optics that have the same issues.
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  #9  
Old 02-24-2014, 12:03 PM
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Pa scope isn't a true 1x but gets close to it. True 1x will cost a bit more. Believe pa said it would put them at a price range they were not interested in. Idk about their 2nd run though.
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Old 02-24-2014, 1:08 PM
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PA RDS are awesome, but I have no experience with their scopes. For the price the PA 1-6x would probably get the job done. As another poster stated I'd rather have a higher quality 1-4x than a lower 1-6x so for the money I'd go with the Leupold Mark AR mod 1 1.5-4x for 413.00 shipping included or the Mark AR 1.5-4x for 232.00 shipping included. Just zero for 200 meters and you'll be a 1.5" high at 100 or 1.5" low at 300 meters. .223/5.56 start to run out of "gitty up" after that distance anyway.
http://www.botach.com/categories/man...flescopes.html
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  #11  
Old 02-24-2014, 1:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happyhappycamper View Post
My apologies I missed the $400 reference, but if that is your budget for a scope & mount then you are better off with iron sights until you can save up for a proper optic.

If there is one thing I have come to hate about this sport it is shoddy optics and you do get what you pay for in most cases. Granted there are exceptions to that, but there are a lot more cheaper optics on the market that just fail or suffer from eye box issues etc than there are high end optics that have the same issues.
I hear you and get where your coming from to a certain extent. If i was always shooting from a bi-pod with a 20" barrel and a match trigger i would agree with you. If i had invested money into the gun to be as accurate as possible then yes the scope would warrant the $ to be put into a nice high end optic.

however if i am running a 16" barrel, GI trigger, and no bi-pod. Would i see the difference between a $400 optic vs $1400 pristine glass?
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  #12  
Old 02-24-2014, 1:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89LT1 View Post
I hear you and get where your coming from to a certain extent. If i was always shooting from a bi-pod with a 20" barrel and a match trigger i would agree with you. If i had invested money into the gun to be as accurate as possible then yes the scope would warrant the $ to be put into a nice high end optic.

however if i am running a 16" barrel, GI trigger, and no bi-pod. Would i see the difference between a $400 optic vs $1400 pristine glass?
Yes you will. In fact it is more important for your own self-professed needs than for the guy that is bench shooting with a bipod. When you are bench shooting at known distances and have the time to get proper cheek weld for each & every shot then things like eye box issues, moving reticles etc aren't much of an inconvenience because you have time to sort them out.

When you are shooting offhand or on the move then that is really where the little inadequacies of lesser optics really start to add up and affect your results or at least that is my opinion on the subject, but I am not an operator or even all that experienced as a marksman. I'm just offering up what little knowledge I have gleaned over the years.

I'm actually a motorcycle test rider and optics are a lot like quality aftermarket suspension for a motorcycle. A lot of novice riders will make statements that they are not good enough riders to take advantage of $3000 worth of suspension so they perceive that as money wasted, but what they don't understand is that they are just as worthy of that upgrade as a professional racer is. If the suspension is making the bike more compliant then you as the rider have more time to think about throttle management, body position and proper lines rather than worrying about how the bike is going to negatively react to the ripples in the braking zone of Turn 2 or how it will shake its head when you land the wheelie over the crest of Turn 4 or whether or not you can apply all the power for a good drive out of the turn without excessive loss of traction to the rear wheel. All of those things are alleviated by quality suspension components.
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  #13  
Old 02-24-2014, 1:38 PM
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you make a good point. this may cost me more than i initially thought...

i am going through the post that Cyberion posted, there is a ton of information and reviews in there. so i will go more off reviews and value for the $ rather than the set budget.

can i site you as "the cause" when my wife finds out how much i spent? lol
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Old 02-24-2014, 1:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 89LT1 View Post
can i site you as "the cause" when my wife finds out how much i spent? lol
LOL it would not be the first time I have been blamed for such expenditures
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Old 02-24-2014, 2:57 PM
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Nikon Monarch series and Leupold MK3 series in 1.5x4.5 and 1.5x6 should do ya. Both brands offer 2/2.5x8 also. I own these scopes among others and have no regrets. I have also owned Zeiss, B/L, Redfield, Weaver. The only scope I've owned that I like better than my Leupold's and Nikon's is a Swarovski. Do I feel its worth the double in price, no, but if I had a deep wallet maybe so.
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  #16  
Old 02-24-2014, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taifei View Post
Pa scope isn't a true 1x but gets close to it. True 1x will cost a bit more. Believe pa said it would put them at a price range they were not interested in. Idk about their 2nd run though.
Not according to this...I'll be picking up the PA 1-6x for my .308 build...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=883759
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It's kind of hard to go low budget on a rifle that's chambered in $5 bills

You're better of with a $400 .308 unless you plan on taking out taliban from 2000 yards away haha
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Old 02-24-2014, 7:23 PM
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I am waiting for the new PA 1-6 also. I can certainly appreciate good glass as I have several thousand dollars into Canon L series lens but those pay for themselves.

I don't make money with any of my guns so not all of them need high end optics. Interestingly enough though, the 1-6 will go on my "highest end" rifle, my Noveske N4/NSR stick, LOL. It currently has a Viper PST 2.5-10x32 that will be moving to a 16" Stainless upper I am planning to buy in a few months.
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Old 02-25-2014, 6:02 AM
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Default 1-6X scope options

Yeah its worth the wait this thing is bad!!



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Last edited by PrimaryArms; 02-25-2014 at 6:24 PM..
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Old 02-25-2014, 6:52 AM
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SWFA 1-6x Mil reticle:
If you search around or wait they can be purchased for $800 slightly used.
This is only a $800-$1000 optic so don't expect NIGHTFORCE or Steiner glass.
I have this on one of my AR rifles and it works well.
Hope this helps.

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-6x24-Ta...pe-P53845.aspx
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Old 02-25-2014, 6:56 AM
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Originally Posted by PrimaryArms View Post
Yeah its worth the way this thing is bad!!



Dimitri
i was hoping you would find this thread. i asked in the other one about this optic. Any chance of a pre-sale list for calguns? I would be willing to put some money out to make sure I get one of the next batch.

and it looks awesome on the rifle!
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Old 02-25-2014, 7:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89LT1 View Post
i was hoping you would find this thread. i asked in the other one about this optic. Any chance of a pre-sale list for calguns? I would be willing to put some money out to make sure I get one of the next batch.

and it looks awesome on the rifle!
Me too!!
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Originally Posted by steveOsteezy View Post
It's kind of hard to go low budget on a rifle that's chambered in $5 bills

You're better of with a $400 .308 unless you plan on taking out taliban from 2000 yards away haha
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Old 02-25-2014, 7:57 AM
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Me too!!
Me three.
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Old 02-25-2014, 8:13 AM
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Quote:
Yeah its worth the (wait) this thing is bad!!
Some in this thread may be thinking 1-6x in 223/5.56 and others in 308. Can you clarify expected time frames for each? I want 223/5.56 for now. 308 maybe later.
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Old 02-25-2014, 8:16 AM
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i need the 223/5.56 as well
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Old 02-25-2014, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89LT1 View Post
i need the 223/5.56 as well

Same here.


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Old 02-25-2014, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberion View Post
Some in this thread may be thinking 1-6x in 223/5.56 and others in 308. Can you clarify expected time frames for each? I want 223/5.56 for now. 308 maybe later.
Are you referring to the ACSS HUD .308?

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Old 02-25-2014, 6:56 PM
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Make that two, my buddy wants one as well.


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Old 02-25-2014, 7:11 PM
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https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-...p/paps1-6x.htm

This is the one we are referring to. It's compatible with .223/5.56, 5.45, and .308...take my money now!! Hahaha
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It's kind of hard to go low budget on a rifle that's chambered in $5 bills

You're better of with a $400 .308 unless you plan on taking out taliban from 2000 yards away haha
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Old 02-25-2014, 7:18 PM
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Quote:
Are you referring to the ACSS HUD .308?
Well what are the options you have coming out in 1-6x? I'm under the assumption your reticle is tuned for different calibers.

You have listed on your website:
#1
Primary Arms 1-6X Scope with Patened ACSS Reticle "Advanced Combined Sighting System" compatible with .223/5.56 5.45x39 .308
#2
Primary Arms 1-6X Scope with ACSS 7.62X39-300AAC Reticle (ETA: April 2014)

#3
And you note a HUD .308. Is that 1-6x also?

So for 223/5.56 it's #1. What about 308? I see a 308 in the #1 description too.
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Old 02-25-2014, 7:56 PM
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In your price range why not a 1-4x20 as already suggested?

I got the PA 1.5-6 ACSS last year when it came out. I found it pretty nice but my vision can't make out much of the lines in the retical. I was only able to use it a handful of times.

I generally shoot 6" & 4" steel at 100 yards. With the PA at 6x I could see them but not crystal clear. To be expected at the price point.

I recently picked up a Leupold 1.5-4x20 VX2 Patrol. I was blown away at how clear the glass was. Once zero'd in it was spot on at 100 and 200. Didn't try anything past that on this trip. I had teh same issue with the lines on the retical.

Next trip I will try both scopes side by side to decide if the PA is a keeper.
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Old 02-25-2014, 8:42 PM
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That have a 1-4X24 unit for $199
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-...4X-p/pa14x.htm

Was this too cheap of a unit to compare with the Leupold? Are you looking for a nicer 1-4? I am just wondering if you saw this unit cn ruled it out for some reason.

Last edited by 89LT1; 02-25-2014 at 8:44 PM..
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Old 02-25-2014, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberion View Post
Well what are the options you have coming out in 1-6x? I'm under the assumption your reticle is tuned for different calibers.

You have listed on your website:
#1
Primary Arms 1-6X Scope with Patened ACSS Reticle "Advanced Combined Sighting System" compatible with .223/5.56 5.45x39 .308
#2
Primary Arms 1-6X Scope with ACSS 7.62X39-300AAC Reticle (ETA: April 2014)

#3
And you note a HUD .308. Is that 1-6x also?

So for 223/5.56 it's #1. What about 308? I see a 308 in the #1 description too.
The 1-6x is compatible with 5.56/5.45/.308.
M855/7n6 share the same trajectory .308 M80 is dead on when dialed in 1" high at 100 yards.

The 4-14ACSS HUD is a DMR reticle in 4-14FFP it lines up with .308 some .223 and be set to shoot 5.56 dialed -1"-2" 100 yard 0 depending on M193/M855

The other 1-6ACSS 7.62x39/AAC300 is set for those calibers


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Old 02-25-2014, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89LT1 View Post
i was hoping you would find this thread. i asked in the other one about this optic. Any chance of a pre-sale list for calguns? I would be willing to put some money out to make sure I get one of the next batch.

and it looks awesome on the rifle!
Here is footage from testing. Notice how fast it is up close and listen for the dings further out!!

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  #34  
Old 02-26-2014, 5:02 AM
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Quote:
The 1-6x is compatible with 5.56/5.45/.308.
M855/7n6 share the same trajectory .308 M80 is dead on when dialed in 1" high at 100 yards.
Thanks. I was not aware same scope could be used for both 5.56 + 308.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89LT1 View Post
So i have been trying to decide what optic i want to put on my rifle if any. I have been using the iron sites for a while and when compared to a red dot style optic they are just as accurate. Maybe a little slower but im not so concerned about that.

I went out with a buddy the other day and really like his 1-4X adjustable optic. It was nice to have the adjustability but I would like just a little bit more magnification. I have started looking for 1-6X optics. So far i have these two:

Weaver 849813
http://www.weaveroptics.com/optics/r...aspa_tactical/

Primary Arms (wont be in stock until april-ish)
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-...p/paps1-6x.htm

I know PA is a favorite of many on the site, anyone used the Weaver Kaspa? and are there any other I should check out? want to stay under the $400 range.

Thanks
Burris MTAC 1.5-6X42(or 44 I cant remember)
It comes with an illuminated ballistic drop compenstaor reticle that works with or without batteries.
These can be found for less than 400.00 if you look around , even though the MSRP has them above 600.00
I attached pictures of the reticle with it illuminated and non-illuminated. I also attempted to wash out the reticle with white light which proved unsuccessful.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Picture 022.jpg (5.1 KB, 112 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 036.jpg (4.9 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 034.jpg (8.7 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg Picture 021.jpg (41.4 KB, 82 views)
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  #36  
Old 02-26-2014, 1:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimaryArms View Post
Here is footage from testing. Notice how fast it is up close and listen for the dings further out!!

so that's a no for the pre-sale?
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Old 02-26-2014, 4:12 PM
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Default 1-6X scope options

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK LION View Post
Burris MTAC 1.5-6X42(or 44 I cant remember)
It comes with an illuminated ballistic drop compenstaor reticle that works with or without batteries.
These can be found for less than 400.00 if you look around , even though the MSRP has them above 600.00
I attached pictures of the reticle with it illuminated and non-illuminated. I also attempted to wash out the reticle with white light which proved unsuccessful.
How do you range with that? What about wind?
They all look great on paper until ur sending rounds down range.

All the stuff u see on ACSS is there for a reason.
Most common reasons shots are missed.

#1ranging
#2 wind
#3 not having the right lead.

The ACSS reticles focus on the problems on hand and is designed from feed back from combat experienced Marines.Sniper comps and years of research and testing.

Dimitri
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Last edited by PrimaryArms; 02-26-2014 at 4:59 PM..
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  #38  
Old 02-27-2014, 1:30 AM
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+1 on Burris Mtac
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Old 03-03-2014, 6:34 AM
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Originally Posted by PrimaryArms View Post
Here is footage from testing. Notice how fast it is up close and listen for the dings further out!!

Hey Dimitri i got some questions.

I am (not so patiently) waiting for the new this scope. and i had two questions.

1. How close is the 1X magnification to actual? can you take a picture of the front site post through the optic at 1X?

2. is the Burris P.E.P.R. the correct height to absolute co-witnes?

thanks for the info. got the order ready in the wish list just waiting for the email to say its in to submit the order.
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Old 03-03-2014, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 89LT1 View Post
Hey Dimitri i got some questions.

I am (not so patiently) waiting for the new this scope. and i had two questions.

1. How close is the 1X magnification to actual? can you take a picture of the front site post through the optic at 1X?

2. is the Burris P.E.P.R. the correct height to absolute co-witnes?

thanks for the info. got the order ready in the wish list just waiting for the email to say its in to submit the order.
True 1x and we don't recommend you cowitness a magnified optic. A QD with back up irons or 45 irons would be ideal.

Dimitri
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Last edited by PrimaryArms; 03-06-2014 at 5:56 AM..
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