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  #1  
Old 02-08-2014, 4:23 PM
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Default Anti-gay violence in Russia: Why the Second Amendment exists

I wrote the following piece to highlight some really bad stuff happening in Russia right now. Tyranny defined. If only the victims had 2A rights to protect themselves...

The 2014 Olympics in Sochi, Russia are already off to a rough start. However, the anti-gay violence that is taking place ratchets things up (VIDEO ABOVE- warning, graphic violence). The Human Rights Campaign has put together the above video to document and highlight how innocent people are getting beat up and abused, simply for being gay and for simply speaking out in defense of gay rights. The Russian police and government are taking no action to protect people from threats and physical abuse. With Russia's recent "gay propaganda" law and police inaction on this issue, the state is essentially endorsing anti-gay violence.

Watch the video and read the rest at www.topshotchris.com/1/post/2014/02/anti-gay-violence-in-russia-why-the-second-amendment-exists.html
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Last edited by chenger; 02-08-2014 at 4:27 PM..
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Old 02-08-2014, 4:49 PM
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Russia's house, Russia's rules. I don't support the violence, but that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when you (as an extreme minority of the population) try and force your lifestyle to be recognized by everyone around you when they had no reason to care in the first place.

To that effect, I imagine Russians have as much a right to freely express themselves as they do to defend themselves with lethal force. Not my countrymen, so not my problem.
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Old 02-08-2014, 5:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Russia's house, Russia's rules. I don't support the violence, but that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when you (as an extreme minority of the population) try and force your lifestyle to be recognized by everyone around you when they had no reason to care in the first place.

To that effect, I imagine Russians have as much a right to freely express themselves as they do to defend themselves with lethal force. Not my countrymen, so not my problem.
Russia's house, Russia's rules? Good thing you're not a spokesperson for the second amendment.
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Old 02-08-2014, 5:03 PM
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Russia seems like a wonderful place to live in.
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Old 02-08-2014, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Russia's house, Russia's rules. I don't support the violence, but that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when you (as an extreme minority of the population) try and force your lifestyle to be recognized by everyone around you when they had no reason to care in the first place.

To that effect, I imagine Russians have as much a right to freely express themselves as they do to defend themselves with lethal force. Not my countrymen, so not my problem.

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Old 02-08-2014, 5:21 PM
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Got to love these pet outrage topics. You fellas should get over your desire to mind other people's business or go over and help those poor bastards out with your own blood and guts.
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Old 02-08-2014, 5:35 PM
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does any of you read what exactly became a law in Russia? it's against pedofilia and has nothing to do with what US gay propaganda trying show here.
their choice, their laws .


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Old 02-08-2014, 5:45 PM
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Is everything already in order here in US that we push our noses to other countries? The Afghanistan, Vietnam, Iraq, Livia, Egypt, etc did not teach you anything? Do we have here everything as it is supposed to be? No one violates your rights? Don't we have people killed for their beliefs, sexual orientation? Don't we have people killed by insurance companies who declined covering treatment (In no country in the world such situation can happen, only in US and for sure not in Russia)? Don't we have people who cannot afford medication because drug companies charge at leas 20 times more than same medicine costs abroad.Don't we have people killed for the color of their skin ( the game changed though, now whites getting killed, remember the knock down game) and police does not do anything significant. People are getting prosecuted for reveling that government steps on your rights (remember Edward Snowden?) When here everything is 100% OK, than lets start judging others. But while you have mess at your own house, do not judge and do not teach others how to cleanup. The gay right in Russia as what worries you??? Think about your rights first!
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Old 02-08-2014, 6:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Russia's house, Russia's rules. I don't support the violence, but that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when you (as an extreme minority of the population) try and force your lifestyle to be recognized by everyone around you when they had no reason to care in the first place.

To that effect, I imagine Russians have as much a right to freely express themselves as they do to defend themselves with lethal force. Not my countrymen, so not my problem.
funny how some skipped that first part and ran straight to the second.

I agree 100% by the way.
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Old 02-08-2014, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Russia's house, Russia's rules. I don't support the violence, but that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when you (as an extreme minority of the population) try and force your lifestyle to be recognized by everyone around you when they had no reason to care in the first place.

To that effect, I imagine Russians have as much a right to freely express themselves as they do to defend themselves with lethal force. Not my countrymen, so not my problem.
This
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Old 02-08-2014, 7:58 PM
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Did they force their views on people that disagree? If so, they got what they deserved. Some countries it's acceptable to get beatdown. Russia has said the Olympics are not about politics, including race & sexual orientation. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Old 02-08-2014, 8:31 PM
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Jesus, did barrage say rape was the victim's fault? Pretty quick to crucify members in OT lately.
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Old 02-08-2014, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Russia's house, Russia's rules. I don't support the violence, but that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when you (as an extreme minority of the population) try and force your lifestyle to be recognized by everyone around you when they had no reason to care in the first place.

To that effect, I imagine Russians have as much a right to freely express themselves as they do to defend themselves with lethal force. Not my countrymen, so not my problem.
Yep. We don't want the UN telling us what we can do with our guns.. don't see why we need to tell Russia what gay people can do in that country.
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Old 02-08-2014, 9:25 PM
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:31 PM
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Default Anti-gay violence in Russia: Why the Second Amendment exists

I am not gay, nor am an activist. But I don't see the need to torture other human beings as seen in the video.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:36 PM
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More gun ownership in that country would go a long way to stem this sort of violence.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:13 PM
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Yep. We don't want the UN telling us what we can do with our guns.. don't see why we need to tell Russia what gay people can do in that country.
This.

Why do we see it as not ok for the UN to tell us what to do when we run around and do the same thing to other countries?

I abhor the violence as much as the next person, but let's face it: we have no right to be going in there telling them they have to change their country's laws because WE say so. As someone else said: Russia's house, Russians rules.
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Seriously??
Have you looked around?
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Old 02-09-2014, 3:11 AM
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Even though ca has restrictive gun rights, we should be thankful that we have the 2A--the majority of the world doesn't allow gun ownership.








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Old 02-09-2014, 8:39 AM
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Please note that if someone were to walk through Hunters Point in San Francisco with a confederate flag they would probably get beaten up due to their "non-standard" beliefs. A cop friend saw a guy get punched in the face out there just for being a "white guy on a bike." Nobody seemed to care about him. What makes him less worthy of people's sympathy?

Heck, you can't even wear a 49ers shirt in Oakland without watching your back. How about we force all Oakland residents to become 49ers fans?

How would I fare if I walked through Saudi Arabia wearing an American flag shirt and a crucifx? I'd guess not too well. Would anybody think anything other than "what an idiot?"
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Old 02-09-2014, 8:48 AM
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Please note that if someone were to walk through Hunters Point in San Francisco with a confederate flag they would probably get beaten up due to their "non-standard" beliefs. A cop friend saw a guy get punched in the face out there just for being a "white guy on a bike." Nobody seemed to care about him. What makes him less worthy of people's sympathy?

Heck, you can't even wear a 49ers shirt in Oakland without watching your back. How about we force all Oakland residents to become 49ers fans?

How would I fare if I walked through Saudi Arabia wearing an American flag shirt and a crucifx? I'd guess not too well. Would anybody think anything other than "what an idiot?"
I would've hoped he had a gun to drop those mofos as well.
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Old 02-09-2014, 9:54 AM
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Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Russia's house, Russia's rules.
This reminds me of U.S. isolationist policy in the 1900s. When the Nazis came to power and many Americans said "Germany's house, Germany's rules." We know what happened next.

Is it OK for the world to watch North Korea imprison and kill its people without due process? Or it's their house and not our problem?

The reality, as I see it, is that countries are always trying to convey what they feel is right or wrong, just as many of us here would promote 2A-style freedoms in other countries, against the opinions of many. The tricky part is minding the balance between isolationism vs imperialism. Sometimes the extremes are what is necessary for change (e.g. embargoes, war, etc), but not always.

My main point is that guns could be used to help protect a minority from a tyrannical government.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:11 AM
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The folks on Russia are more free than here. Since when is it a bad thing to condemn sin?

Leviticus 20:13

13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:22 AM
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The folks on Russia are more free than here. Since when is it a bad thing to condemn sin?

Leviticus 20:13

13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Since when is it okay to promote, and many times impose, one group's morality over another group's?

How many who follow Leviticus do so to the letter? Why pick and choose certain parts to follow and not others?
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:23 AM
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OP, you'd would do well to lean the difference between non-intervention and isolation if you're going to throw those kinds of generalizations around so loosely.

As I said earlier, go spill your own blood and guts for the infinite number of non-Americans that are being abused in this world if it means so much to you, but until my countrymen are directly attacked by another nation, I'm inclined to respect other countries' sovereignty.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:33 AM
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Shut your closet doors.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:38 AM
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A perfect example of why the world hates America, Imperialists that think it's their right and responsibility to tell the rest of the world what to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chenger View Post
This reminds me of U.S. isolationist policy in the 1900s. When the Nazis came to power and many Americans said "Germany's house, Germany's rules." We know what happened next.

Is it OK for the world to watch North Korea imprison and kill its people without due process? Or it's their house and not our problem?

The reality, as I see it, is that countries are always trying to convey what they feel is right or wrong, just as many of us here would promote 2A-style freedoms in other countries, against the opinions of many. The tricky part is minding the balance between isolationism vs imperialism. Sometimes the extremes are what is necessary for change (e.g. embargoes, war, etc), but not always.

My main point is that guns could be used to help protect a minority from a tyrannical government.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:42 AM
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I'm am not a supporter of "gay rights", but I am a supporter of individual rights. The type of violence in the video is 1 of the reasons why we have 2A. Everyone should be able to live their life as they want as long as its not at the expense of others. Anyone walking down the street should be able to defend themselves from thugs. When a government turns a blind eye and doesn't prosecute thugs it just adds to the violence, it just gets worse. When we stop being concerned with applying individual rights across the board and in other countries eventually it will just lead to more countries ignoring individuals and more tyranny. That will start to erode our rights here. Far fetched? Just think how Marxism/Socialism have found their way here.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:43 AM
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Someone's sexual orientation, known or not, should not prevent them from the basic human right to protect their life and the lives of their loved-ones. I know gun rights are very different in Russia, but if we are going to make international comparisons like the OP suggests, then yes, I'm glad the LGBT community in this country have what little rights they do to defend themselves.

That being said, this thread is yet another in a rash of threads I have dubbed "OT Dawn of the Dead Threads", (When hell is full, the dead shall walk the earth...) and should probably be in OT... Not telling people how to do their jobs, just sayin'.
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:05 PM
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I don't even care about the gays here, so you can imagine how I feel about gays in Russia.
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:17 PM
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I don't even care about the gays here, so you can imagine how I feel about gays in Russia.
Agree with you. I don't give a damn about gays. I do care that they want to force everyone to accept what they do. Shut up, do what you want, don't throw it in people's faces, and SHUT UP! Did I mention they need to shut up?

Anyone complaining actually read what the Russian law outlaws?
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:29 PM
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We should invade [insert prefex here]istan and tell them how to run their lives too.
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Russia's house, Russia's rules. I don't support the violence, but that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when you (as an extreme minority of the population) try and force your lifestyle to be recognized by everyone around you when they had no reason to care in the first place.

To that effect, I imagine Russians have as much a right to freely express themselves as they do to defend themselves with lethal force. Not my countrymen, so not my problem.
I can't find any reports showing that Russian gays have tried to force their lifestyles on anyone.

If you study history plus the writings of Machiavelli, what's happened in Russia is not hard to understand. Historically, despots have often provided convenient targets for their populations so that can vent their anger and frustration for the crappy state of their lives. Lenin and Trotsky selected the Bourgeoisie; Hitler selected the Jews and Gypsies; Iranian mullahs provide the American Satan. Having a convenient target for diverting you from the dismal failures in your life has to a sure fire way to brighten your day.

But hey, don't lots of Americans get suckered into a similar syndrome? Liberals and Conservatives hack away at each other, convinced that their political counterparts are the mortal enemiy of human progress and happiness, all artfully stimulated by the unseen real movers and shakers in this country, (whose names you will never see in print), the puppet masters who keep Americans dangling, focussed on slashing at each others throats, while the movers and shakers quietly celebrate their swelling coffers.
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:54 PM
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What wold you think if Russia tried to force their ideals about how to deal with LGBTs on us?
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Old 02-09-2014, 1:38 PM
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We should invade [insert prefex here]istan and tell them how to run their lives too.
Indeed. And we'll send other American's children to go make it happen, but not our own. Never our own.
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Old 02-09-2014, 2:58 PM
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there are a hell of a lot of severely repressed gays doing the punching in those videos... just sayin'
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Old 02-09-2014, 4:06 PM
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Default Anti-gay violence in Russia: Why the Second Amendment exists

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Russia's house, Russia's rules.
I am so glad our founding fathers did not think like this at the original 13 colonies when they stood up and rose against the tyranny of the British government. If George Washington said "Britain's house, Britain's rules", the great USA might not exist today.
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Old 02-09-2014, 5:03 PM
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I am so glad our founding fathers did not think like this at the original 13 colonies when they stood up and rose against the tyranny of the British government. If George Washington said "Britain's house, Britain's rules", the great USA might not exist today.
Actually, I'd venture to say that's exactly what they thought, which is why they decided to tell King George to go **** himself and create the United States of America in the first place.

Again... If the plight of other people's issues concerns you go so much, then please feel free to sacrifice the blood of your own kin without my support. My loyalties are ONLY reserved for those who I recognize as my own countrymen.

Simpleton arguments at imposing ones worlds views on sovereign nations without provocation are just not welcome in my house and I will not apologize for it.
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Old 02-09-2014, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by boukca View Post
I am so glad our founding fathers did not think like this at the original 13 colonies when they stood up and rose against the tyranny of the British government. If George Washington said "Britain's house, Britain's rules", the great USA might not exist today.
Wait, our puritan founding fathers went over to England and told them how to treat homosexuals?

Citation needed.
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  #39  
Old 02-12-2014, 12:03 PM
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doctor_vals doctor_vals is offline
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Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Russia's house, Russia's rules. I don't support the violence, but that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when you (as an extreme minority of the population) try and force your lifestyle to be recognized by everyone around you when they had no reason to care in the first place.

To that effect, I imagine Russians have as much a right to freely express themselves as they do to defend themselves with lethal force. Not my countrymen, so not my problem.
with Google Translator help:

Quote:
Laws similar to Russian laws banning propaganda of homosexuality, are in 8 states: Alabama, Arizona, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas and Utah. They prohibit the lessons to speak in support of homosexuality. In Arizona is wrong to tell students about homosexuality as a "positive alternative" and considered inappropriate to teach them "safe methods of homosexual sex." In Alabama and Texas in the classroom sex education emphasizes that homosexuality is "not a lifestyle acceptable to the general public." In these states prescribed teach students that "homosexual conduct is a criminal offense," despite the fact that since 2003, the criminalization of homosexuality voluntary unconstitutional. In 2002, the United States hosted the Winter Olympics in Utah, one of eight states where the promotion of homosexuality was forbidden
Quote:
After the abolition of criminal penalties for sodomy 3 June 1993 legislative attempts to ban "homosexual propaganda" in Russia were made ​​at both the federal [23] , and at the regional level with the 2000s. June 11, 2013, the State Duma adopted in the final reading of a law banning "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" among minors. The document was adopted almost unanimously voted for that 436 deputies, only one abstention. [24] [25] June 30, 2013 the law was signed by Russian President Vladimir Putin .
The adopted law complements the Code of Administrative Offences Article establishing the administrative responsibility for the "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" among minors, as well as making changes to the federal law "On the protection of children from information harmful to their health and development" , according to which the information gap for distribution among children, and also relates information that promotes unconventional sexual relationship. Furthermore, the Act amends "On basic guarantees of children's rights in Russia" [26] , which state that the authorities of the Russian Federation shall take measures to protect the child from information and also propagating the unconventional sexual relationship.
So, if you do not like their law - do not travel to Russia.
If you like law of recent regime in DC - you can go with propaganda to own kids that dad + dad or mom + mom it is better than mom + dad.
But...
I have the rights to protect my family from what regime said - it is right;
but human history century by century proved - it is abnormally to human future.
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  #40  
Old 02-12-2014, 12:10 PM
Armando de la Guerra Armando de la Guerra is offline
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Originally Posted by barrage View Post
Russia's house, Russia's rules. I don't support the violence, but that's exactly the kind of thing that happens when you (as an extreme minority of the population) try and force your lifestyle to be recognized by everyone around you when they had no reason to care in the first place.

To that effect, I imagine Russians have as much a right to freely express themselves as they do to defend themselves with lethal force. Not my countrymen, so not my problem.
Translation: "Tyranny is ok as long as it's against people I don't like".

way.to.go.
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