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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-26-2008, 10:41 PM
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Default How to live in California and buy a gun [FAQ]

Quote:
First draft deleted and replaced with posts 15 and 16, below in this thread.
Updated March 12, 2008

The author is not an attorney. This is not legal advice. Consult your attorney before acting.
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No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 03-12-2008 at 7:37 PM..
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2008, 9:27 AM
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Dump Principles 1 and 2. Go with something like this instead: “Generally, only a licensed dealer may sell or transfer firearms in California.” This would be much more accurate than opening with a fallacy.
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:11 AM
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I like it. Nice work, again, Librarian.

Questions:

1) What is the definition of "immediate family"? I thought brother-to-brother was treated differently than father-to-brother...

2) Can a son who resides in Nevada buy a gun that is not on the CA "safe list" and then transfer it to his father who resides in California?
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:22 AM
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On Q6 and Q7, regarding intrafamiliar transfers (my mother to me, she is living, and out of state), I'm assuming only guns that are CA safe can be transfered in? Otherwise, they have to go through some drop testing and some other stuff?
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
I like it. Nice work, again, Librarian.

Questions:

1) What is the definition of "immediate family"? I thought brother-to-brother was treated differently than father-to-brother...

2) Can a son who resides in Nevada buy a gun that is not on the CA "safe list" and then transfer it to his father who resides in California?
1) The PC for immediate family is in Q5.

2) Yes; still has to go through FFL, has to be very explicitly marked 'gift' -- I left all the Roster stuff in the Handguns forum.

Quote:
On Q6 and Q7, regarding intrafamiliar transfers (my mother to me, she is living, and out of state), I'm assuming only guns that are CA safe can be transfered in? Otherwise, they have to go through some drop testing and some other stuff?
No - even though the transfer has to go through the FFL due to Federal law, the Roster does not apply to intrafamily transfer.
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No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #6  
Old 02-27-2008, 12:15 PM
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I understand what you are trying to accomplish, which is why I offered an alternative. You did exclude C&R topics, but those are interstate issues anyway. As you well know, 50-year-old longarms are exempt from the dealer-transfer requirements in California, so there are many, many firearms eligible for “paperless” transfers out there.
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Old 02-27-2008, 2:21 PM
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Default In Laws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
1) The PC for immediate family is in Q5.
To confirm, since it is not expressly stated, a Mother in Law to Daughter in Law would not count as Parent and Child?

Mother would need to gift to son, then son could gift to wife? (per Q8)
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Old 02-27-2008, 2:22 PM
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Oh, and THANK YOU for writing this up.
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  #9  
Old 02-27-2008, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. D. Van Norman View Post
I understand what you are trying to accomplish, which is why I offered an alternative. You did exclude C&R topics, but those are interstate issues anyway. As you well know, 50-year-old longarms are exempt from the dealer-transfer requirements in California, so there are many, many firearms eligible for “paperless” transfers out there.
Here's what I think is the C&R stuff that applies - might not be all of it, which is why I don't claim to be qualified to write it.

(My 'translation' in italics.)

-------

PC 12001

(e) For purposes of Sections 12070, 12071, and paragraph (8) of subdivision (a), and subdivisions (b), (c), (d), and (f) of Section 12072, the term "firearm" does not include an unloaded firearm that is defined as an "antique firearm" in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.

PC 12070
(b) Subdivision (a) does not include any of the following:

(17) The delivery of an unloaded firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, by a person licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto with a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 12071 to a dealer.

Transfers of specified C&R weapons from a licensed Curio and Relic collector (apparently to any buyer) need not go through another FFL; the C&R collector must record the sale, but no paperwork goes to the government


PC 12078 (t)
(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

Transfers of non-handgun Curios and Relics, at least 50 years old, do not have to go through a FFL dealer, and no paper is required. This applies both to licensed C&R collectors and those without the license.


Now - is that more or less confusing to a newbie?
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No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 02-27-2008 at 2:31 PM..
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  #10  
Old 02-27-2008, 2:29 PM
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Nicely done, Librarian.........I see a Sticky in your future.
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  #11  
Old 02-27-2008, 2:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Dwarf View Post
To confirm, since it is not expressly stated, a Mother in Law to Daughter in Law would not count as Parent and Child?

Mother would need to gift to son, then son could gift to wife? (per Q8)
Yes, I believe that's how it would work.

Mother-in-law is definitely not immediate family to daughter-in-law, and mother->son, then son->wife would seem to be legal. If it's a handgun, remember both husband and wife have to have the HSC, and both transfers need a separate form and fee.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #12  
Old 02-27-2008, 11:07 PM
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maybe you want to copy stuff from the BOF faq
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:11 PM
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Nice work! Looking forward to the final version.
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. D. Van Norman View Post
I understand what you are trying to accomplish, which is why I offered an alternative. You did exclude C&R topics, but those are interstate issues anyway. As you well know, 50-year-old longarms are exempt from the dealer-transfer requirements in California, so there are many, many firearms eligible for “paperless” transfers out there.
Very true!

I'm getting tired of arguing with sellers on Gunbroker that live in my town and will not do a FTF transfer on long gun over 50 years old. I always get the "that's illegal under cali law" then I have to cut and paste the exemption for them to see. Most of the time I get no reply. Misinformation should not be allowed to spread. You should add the exemption on C&R long guns for sure.
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:35 PM
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Default How to live in California and buy a gun. FAQ Version 1.1 12 March 2008

PART ONE – PART TWO in Next Post due to 10,000 Character Limit

The author is not an attorney. This is not legal advice. Consult your attorney before acting.

This FAQ focuses on individual buyers who are residents of California and not prohibited from owning guns.

Buyers who hold Curio and Relic (C&R) Collector’s Licenses and who purchase C&R weapons are NOT included here.

If you live in California, the usual answer to any question involving transferring a gun in any way to a California resident is Use a CALIFORNIA-LICENSED FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSEE.

Why is that?
FEDERAL LAW, 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5) requires that INTERSTATE TRANSFERS MUST GO THROUGH A FFL IN THE BUYER’S STATE OF RESIDENCE. [ Quoted in PART TWO. ] California residents must use California FFLs.

CALIFORNIA LAW, PENAL CODE 12070, says
Quote:
12070. (a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued a license pursuant to Section 12071.
Penal Code 12071 requires several state and local licenses in order to do business as a California Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL).

Out of state dealers cannot act as California dealers and cannot use California’s Dealer’s Record Of Sale (DROS) system, because they do not have the full set of California licenses.

CALIFORNIA LAW, PENAL CODE 12072(d) REQUIRES PRIVATE TRANSFERS TO USE DEALERS
Quote:
(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.
This began January 1, 1991.
QUESTIONS and ANSWERS

Q1: Who lives in California?
A: Generally, if you pay taxes or vote here, you live here. If you have a more complicated situation, talk to a lawyer – multi-state residence is possible but outside the scope of this thread.
Q2: What is a transfer?
A: A transfer is the process where “Person X” has a gun and “Person Y” does not; then, at a later time, “Person Y’ has that gun. It includes a sale, a gift, a loan, a trade and any other mechanism that results in “Person Y” having a gun s/he did not previously have.

A transfer does not require any exchange of value for value.
Q3: What is a firearm?
A: Penal Code 12001(b) says
Quote:
(b) As used in this title, "firearm" means any device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.
Practically, the receiver or the frame, the part with the required serial number, is ‘the firearm’.

HOWEVER, Penal Code 12001(e) says (quoted in PART TWO), in short, weapons manufactured before 1899 and replicas of those that work the same way and black-powder muzzle-loaders are not firearms, and do not need an FFL to transfer.
Q4: What happens at an FFL transfer?
A: All California FFL transfers require
  • fees
  • purchase price
  • buyer’s proof of identity [ PC 12076 (b)(1) ],
  • the Dealer’s Record of Sale (DROS) [ PC 12073 (a) ],
  • the waiting period [ PC 12071 (b)(3)(A) ],
  • and the ‘Firearms Safety Device’ (lock) [ PC 12088.1 (a) ].
For handguns, an FFL transfer also requires
  • proof of California residency [ PC 12071 (a)(8)(C) ],
  • the ‘safe handling demonstration’ [ PC 12071 (a)(8)(D) ],
  • and the buyer must have the ‘Handgun Safety Certificate’ (HSC) [ PC 12071 (a)(8)(B) ].
Q5: Must guns from an bequest (inheritance) or intestate succession go through a FFL?
A1: NO. California law exempts bequests from using the FFL for members of the immediate family only. [ PC 12078 (c)(1) and (c)(2) ]
Quote:
(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.
The recipient can just take the long guns. For HANDGUNS, s/he must file the Operation of Law or Intrafamilial Handgun Transaction Report” [ PC 12071(a)(3) ]

Inherited long guns are not registered or made known to the government. Remember, inheritance means the person giving you the gun is dead.
Q6: Must guns from an OUT OF STATE bequest (inheritance) or intestate succession go through a FFL?
A1: NO. Federal law exempts guns from the FFL-in-receiver’s-state in the case of inheritance. California law exempts bequests from using the FFL for members of the immediate family only.

The recipient can just take the LONG GUNS. For HANDGUNS the recipient must file the “Operation of Law or Intrafamilial Handgun Transaction Report” covering a transfer by bequest and the recipient must have the Handgun Safety Certificate.
Q7: Must gifts from or to family members go through a FFL?
A1: NO. INSIDE CALIFORNIA, gifts within the immediate family need not use a FFL.

An intrafamilial gift of a LONG GUN is not registered or made known to the government.

For HANDGUNS, the recipient must file the “Operation of Law or Intrafamilial Handgun Transaction Report” covering a transfer between immediate family members [ PC 12078 (c)(1) and (c)(3)(A) ] and the recipient must have the Handgun Safety Certificate.

NOTE: there is no obvious way to enforce that the recipient has the HSC if the transaction does not use a FFL. Get one anyway.

A2: If the gun is OUTSIDE California, AND the intrafamilial gift is a HANDGUN, YES, the transfer must occur through a California FFL.
Q8: Can a spouse give a gun to his/her spouse without the FFL?
A: www.cagunlaws.com says YES. If it is a HANDGUN, again you must file the “Operation of Law or Intrafamilial Handgun Transaction Report” and the recipient must have the Handgun Safety Certificate.
Q9: What is a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?
A: Private individuals may sell guns to other private individuals. [ PC 12070 (b)(4) and 12082 (a) ] This transfer MUST occur at a California FFL. [ PC 12072 (d) ]

Note that all of the FFL required actions must be followed in a PPT. The purchase price goes to the seller, the fees to the dealer.

Both parties MUST be residents of California; otherwise, it’s an interstate transfer, and Federal law - 18 USC 922 (a) - takes over.
Q10: Can I buy guns at a California ‘gun show’?
A: YES, but the transfer must go through a California FFL. Private sellers often have made such arrangements, and sometimes FFL dealers attend gun shows, and may offer to participate in the transfer
Questions 11, 12, and 13 EXPANDED in post 17, below.

Q11: Can I buy guns at an Arizona or other out of state gun show, or from individuals I meet out of state?
A: YES, but you will have to arrange for a California FFL to take possession (not just delivery- he must enter the gun in his Acquisition and Disposition book) and re-transfer the gun to you in California. You may not take possession of the gun in Arizona / out of state. You may not ship the gun to yourself from out of state, nor may anyone else ship it to you – the gun must go to a California FFL.
Q12: Can I buy guns on the internet, at sites such as Gunbroker?
A: YES, but the transfer must go through a California FFL. Those sites usually have an ‘FFL Locator Service’.
Q13: Can my friend from out of state bring a gun into California, then give/sell it to me?
A: NO, not directly. Even though the gun is in California, the owner is not a California resident. 18 USC 922 (a)(5) says it is a crime to transfer a gun to a person who is not a resident of the same state as the transferor. The transfer must go through a California FFL.
Q14: Must rifles over 50 years old be sold through a FFL?
A: NO. [PC 12078 (t), quoted in PART TWO].

Note carefully: this does NOT include HANDGUNS.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 06-22-2008 at 5:39 PM.. Reason: add A&D book reference
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  #16  
Old 02-28-2008, 12:37 PM
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Default How to live in California and buy a gun PART TWO

How to live in California and buy a gun. FAQ
Version 1.0 28 Feb 2008

PART TWO – PART ONE in Previous Post due to 10,000 Character Limit

California Code can be found on line at http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

United States Code – Federal law – can be found on line at
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/

Code of Federal Regulations can be found on line at
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/

That Federal law requiring interstate transfer through FFLs, 18 USC 922, is explained in the next post …


From Q3:
Penal Code 12001(e) – things not firearms:
Quote:
(e) For purposes of Sections 12070, 12071, and paragraph (8) of subdivision (a), and subdivisions (b), (c), (d), and (f) of Section 12072, the term "firearm" does not include an unloaded firearm that is defined as an "antique firearm" in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.
18 USC 921 (a)(16) says
Quote:
(a) As used in this chapter—
...
(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. [... small snip ... ]

From Q14:
PC 12078 (t)
Quote:
(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.
27 CFR 478.11 is the “Definitions” section. Following down to page 22 there is this about Curios and Relics
Quote:
Curios or relics. Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or
event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 03-12-2008 at 7:29 PM..
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2008, 12:38 PM
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Default How to live in California and buy a gun part THREE

Interstate Firearm Transfers.

Interstate transfers are governed by Federal Law, specifically
18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5).

Here is the text of those sections:
Quote:
§ 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
EXCEPT IF YOU HAVE A FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE,

(a)(3) says it is unlawful
"(3) for any person...to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ... any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State
except ... by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence..."
Shorter: If you live in California and you somehow get a firearm out of state, it is illegal for you to bring it back or send it to California.
(a)(5) says it is unlawful
"5) for any person ... to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ... who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..."
Shorter: If you live in any state, you may not transfer a gun to someone who does not live in that same state.
18 USC 924 (a)(1)(D) appears to specify a penalty:
Quote:
§ 924. Penalties
(a)
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection ... whoever—
...
(D) willfully violates any other provision of this chapter,

shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
ATF has implemented these code sections in Federal Code of Regulations 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30. BATFE also has an online FAQ.

Federal law does not have an exception for intra-family transfer; California does have that exception for transfers entirely within California.
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Last edited by Librarian; 03-12-2008 at 7:30 PM..
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Old 02-28-2008, 2:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post

Mother-in-law is definitely not immediate family to daughter-in-law, and mother->son, then son->wife would seem to be legal. If it's a handgun, remember both husband and wife have to have the HSC, and both transfers need a separate form and fee.
It would probably be cheaper to do a F2F transfer at the dealer ($25) vs. the double IFT ($38). The only thing is the 10 day, but the paperwork would be done electronically.
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Old 03-12-2008, 7:35 PM
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Updates added.
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No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 03-25-2008, 9:46 PM
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So I had a question on this statement, from Q11:

"YES, but you will have to arrange for a California FFL to take possession (not just delivery) and re-sell the gun to you in California"

The FFL must "re-sell" the gun to me, meaning what? What are they allowed to charge me for, fees wise? What paperwork must the sender/seller (say, a private individual, assuming the FFL is ok w/ receiving an out of state transfer from a private individual) complete?

I was unable to find these answers by searching, or in this thread, so I apologize if they are blatantly obvious somewhere.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteDingo View Post
So I had a question on this statement, from Q11:

"YES, but you will have to arrange for a California FFL to take possession (not just delivery) and re-sell the gun to you in California"

The FFL must "re-sell" the gun to me, meaning what? What are they allowed to charge me for, fees wise? What paperwork must the sender/seller (say, a private individual, assuming the FFL is ok w/ receiving an out of state transfer from a private individual) complete?

I was unable to find these answers by searching, or in this thread, so I apologize if they are blatantly obvious somewhere.
The ATF FAQ for the question says
Quote:
B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.
so the question is what does "obtain the firearm from the dealer" mean?

For out of state transfers, dealers can charge whatever fee they think is right. Then they have to charge DROS fee, because the state requires its cut.

But paperwork from the out of state non-FFL seller? I dunno. TenPercent? Any other FFL want to answer?

And, maybe clarify my 're-sell' comment; I'm not sure, today, that is exactly what I wanted to write.
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- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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