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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 02-06-2016, 7:24 PM
MarikinaMan MarikinaMan is online now
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Default Mounted a scope and it's maxxed out on windage, and almost maxxed on elevation...

I mounted a new scope with new mounts and bore sighted it. The scope is maxxed to the left on windage with 2 clicks remaining and maxxed on elevation with 4 mils left over.

There is almost nothing left over for adjustments.

Before I return the scope, what can I do to check if I am not making a mistake. Is it possible my 1 piece SWFA Tactical scope mount is tweaked?

Advice appreciated.

Last edited by MarikinaMan; 02-06-2016 at 7:48 PM..
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Old 02-06-2016, 7:26 PM
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More info on set up and your zero process.

What brand of scope?
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Old 02-06-2016, 7:45 PM
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The scope is a Primary Arms 4-14 mil dot.

I am bore sighting it at 30 feet to a 1 inch red circle by peering into the bore, sighting the red dot and aligning the reticle to the dot as well.

This method has been successful for me in the past. It gets me on paper within 2-3 inches at 50 yards.

The scope mount is an SWFA SALT tactical mount. The mount was checked for alignment with a Wheeler tool and is torqued to the rail. The scope was also leveled.

Last edited by MarikinaMan; 02-06-2016 at 7:59 PM..
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Old 02-06-2016, 9:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarikinaMan View Post
The scope is a Primary Arms 4-14 mil dot.

I am bore sighting it at 30 feet to a 1 inch red circle by peering into the bore, sighting the red dot and aligning the reticle to the dot as well.

This method has been successful for me in the past. It gets me on paper within 2-3 inches at 50 yards.

The scope mount is an SWFA SALT tactical mount. The mount was checked for alignment with a Wheeler tool and is torqued to the rail. The scope was also leveled.
These issues are usually causes by misaligned mounts. But, as long as your rings are sitting parallel to the bore, it should allow you a 100 yard zero. Usually, the scope's axis is a bit off on these budget scopes, but they still leave you a workable range so it goes without really being noticed. It could be that you just have too much misalignment in the scope and it should go back. However, first make sure your mounting process is correct since that is more often the problem.
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Old 02-06-2016, 9:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMP View Post
These issues are usually causes by misaligned mounts. But, as long as your rings are sitting parallel to the bore, it should allow you a 100 yard zero. Usually, the scope's axis is a bit off on these budget scopes, but they still leave you a workable range so it goes without really being noticed. It could be that you just have too much misalignment in the scope and it should go back. However, first make sure your mounting process is correct since that is more often the problem.
I reinspected the scope mount. It's a one piece tactical AR mount. The rings are aligned. This was checked with a Wheeler tool. I don't know how to check the mount against the bore. I'm thinking of slapping on another scope that is known to be good tomorrow to check.

As far as I know, the mount is clamped onto the rail fine. There's not much I can see to adjust.

Thanks!
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Old 02-06-2016, 11:09 PM
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Trying the mechanical reset and going to attempt to bore sight it again tomorrow.

Thanks!
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Old 02-06-2016, 11:12 PM
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If you send it back after bore-sighting at 30 feet they will laugh almost as hard as I did.

You may as well use duct tape and a ball peen hammer.
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Old 02-07-2016, 6:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TKM View Post
If you send it back after bore-sighting at 30 feet they will laugh almost as hard as I did.

You may as well use duct tape and a ball peen hammer.
Man, that Larry Potterfield, and the National Shooting Sports Foundation have no idea what they're talking about. The method is a couple of hundred years old and commonly known.

http://youtu.be/DF07A7HaR38

http://youtu.be/UgB9J9Bt_Rs

Last edited by MarikinaMan; 02-07-2016 at 6:14 AM..
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Old 02-07-2016, 6:09 AM
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Hmmm tried shooting Primary Arms a PM? They are a CalGuns Vendor. Usually very helpful.
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Old 02-07-2016, 6:10 AM
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Were the adjusters centered before you mounted...half way between full left and full right and between full up and full down? You'd be surprised how many scope are not centered.

Also, are your mounts aligned with the barrel.

Last edited by Jeepergeo; 02-07-2016 at 8:06 AM..
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Old 02-07-2016, 6:19 AM
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I put the scope aside last night and and trying it again this morning starting from a mechanical zero. If it doesn't sight reasonably, I'll return it and buy something else. Thanks guys!
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Old 02-07-2016, 6:30 AM
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Did you actually shoot the gun or just bore sight it?
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Old 02-07-2016, 6:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geedavell View Post
Did you actually shoot the gun or just bore sight it?
I'm bore sighting it. The scope's gotta be reasonably sighted in before I attempt to take it to the range and hope to zero it.
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Old 02-07-2016, 6:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarikinaMan View Post
I'm bore sighting it. The scope's gotta be reasonably sighted in before I attempt to take it to the range and hope to zero it.
Actually, the optics don't "need to be reasonably sighted" at all. It helps some but, many times, I just use a shrub or any other identifiable mark on an impact berm that will stay in place and use the one shot zero method.

Have you checked to see that your mounts are aligned properly on your rifle? I'm not talking about the mount to scope part, I'm talking about the rifle to mount part.
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Old 02-07-2016, 6:52 AM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Actually, the optics don't "need to be reasonably sighted" at all. It helps some but, many times, I just use a shrub or any other identifiable mark on an impact berm that will stay in place and use the one shot zero method.

Have you checked to see that your mounts are aligned properly on your rifle? I'm not talking about the mount to scope part, I'm talking about the rifle to mount part.
You are right. It does not need to be. That's just my process. Also, if I can't bore sight the scope to the rifle and have reasonable ranges of adjustment left over, I didn't want to compromise my ability to return the scope by shooting it. Lot'sa potential to nick or scratch the thing in a trip to the range.

Besides an inspection of the installation of the mount to the rail, I don't really know how to check a mount if it's tweaked.

I will do some more tests, including mounting another scope to rule out the mount.

Last edited by MarikinaMan; 02-07-2016 at 7:27 AM..
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Old 02-07-2016, 7:53 AM
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After the mechanical zero, I have 5 mils left on the elevation, and the windage now has more room.

I am taking it to the range to see what's up. Thanks!
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Old 02-07-2016, 8:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarikinaMan View Post
After the mechanical zero, I have 5 mils left on the elevation, and the windage now has more room.

I am taking it to the range to see what's up. Thanks!
For elevation, recenter and try Burris rings that use the offset inserts.
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarikinaMan View Post
You are right. It does not need to be. That's just my process. Also, if I can't bore sight the scope to the rifle and have reasonable ranges of adjustment left over, I didn't want to compromise my ability to return the scope by shooting it. Lot'sa potential to nick or scratch the thing in a trip to the range.

Besides an inspection of the installation of the mount to the rail, I don't really know how to check a mount if it's tweaked.

I will do some more tests, including mounting another scope to rule out the mount.
I agree that there's nothing wrong with boresighting. I normally do it the same way you described and have even done AKs using an inspection mirror.

Do you have a lapping bar? If so, you could use it to check the alignment of the rings to each other. I guess we should ask what type of rifle you are mounting this to? And, have you mounted another optic and/or mounts to it? If so, were they zeroed pretty close to the mechanical zero? If it's an AR or other rifle where the barrel can be easily changed, has the barrel been removed before? Do you know that the barrel is tight and true to the receiver? Where are you located? If you're close enough to me, I'm willing to take a look at it and maybe, try a different optic or mount to see if it makes a difference.
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:29 AM
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Exactly how many clicks does this scope have? Have you counted them to see it has the amount of adjustment the maker claims.
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Old 02-07-2016, 1:40 PM
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Is this a new rifle or one you have used with a scope previously? If new then it is probably the rifle. If not then the most likely culprit is the mount/rings and lastly the scope.
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Old 02-07-2016, 1:48 PM
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Are you mounting the scope on an A4 carry handle?
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Old 02-07-2016, 4:25 PM
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Sounds like my Mini-14.
I think the receiver was not well machined on mine.
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Old 02-07-2016, 4:29 PM
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just put the barrel in a vice and bend it so it gives you some more windage.
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Old 02-07-2016, 4:47 PM
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just put the barrel in a vice and bend it so it gives you some more windage.
LOL!
Glad my mouth wasn't full when I read that.
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Old 02-07-2016, 4:53 PM
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just put the barrel in a vice and bend it so it gives you some more windage.
No that is for AK's.
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Old 02-07-2016, 5:05 PM
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Quote:
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just put the barrel in a vice and bend it so it gives you some more windage.
Thanks! Crown Royal right out through my nose. That was a funny quote right there!!!
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Old 02-07-2016, 6:20 PM
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Got back from a short range session. The wind was really bad at Angeles, my target frames kept getting pushed over.

Before I left this morning, I turned the turrets to maximum a few times. They felt weird. I popped the turret off, and found the little o-rings in both the turrets chewed up. Not the large ones, but the ones sitting on the turret shaft. Luckily, I have an o-ring set I keep for bike repairs. Replaced the o-rings and turned the turrets to their max ranges for good measures.

The bore sighting now gives me 17 and 17.5 mils of up and down elevation. The windage is now sighted at 13.5 mils right to top out and 23.6 mils left to bottom out with a right bias. 135 clicks of windaget to one side is plenty.

Got to the range and zeroed it a fity yards. 2 clicks windage and 3 on the elevation and I'm on.

The bad part is I did not get dope at 100. Not only were the targets swinging wildly from the winds, my target frames blew over and worse, were blown away a multiple times. I was hitting it, but the targets didn't stay up long enough to get a group going.

I'll keep the scope another week. I consistently got less than 1 inch groups at 50 when the target stayed up. At least it's holding zero. I'll know if it tracks well next time.

Last edited by MarikinaMan; 02-07-2016 at 8:15 PM..
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Old 02-07-2016, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Toast View Post
just put the barrel in a vice and bend it so it gives you some more windage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor Cachat View Post
LOL!
Glad my mouth wasn't full when I read that.
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Originally Posted by ElvenSoul View Post
No that is for AK's.
OK, I was NEVER going to cop to this but, someone had a problem with his homebuild and came over to see if I could help him. The barrel was already tweeked and I told him that it really needs a new barrel but, if he wanted to try to zero the one that was already installed, we could try to "fix" it with no guarantees that it would work, be safe or prematurely wear out the barrel. Well, he decided to experiment with me. We did use a vice to test it remotely!!!! In the end, we got it zeroed at 50 yards (that's what we had readily available). I DO NOT RECOMMEND doing this without A LOT of experience and taking the proper safety precaution. Heck, even then, I still DO NOT RECOMMEND that anyone tries this. This was a bit over bent but, a little more trial and error and we ended up with a barrel that looks like a snake but actually shoots straight (for now).



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Last edited by CSACANNONEER; 02-07-2016 at 9:11 PM..
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Old 02-07-2016, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarikinaMan View Post
Got back from a short range session. The wind was really bad at Angeles, my target frames kept getting pushed over.

Before I left this morning, I turned the turrets to maximum a few times. They felt weird. I popped the turret off, and found the little o-rings in both the turrets chewed up. Not the large ones, but the ones sitting on the turret shaft. Luckily, I have an o-ring set I keep for bike repairs. Replaced the o-rings and turned the turrets to their max ranges for good measures.

The bore sighting now gives me 17 and 17.5 mils of up and down elevation. The windage is now sighted at 13.5 mils right to top out and 23.6 mils left to bottom out with a right bias. 135 clicks of windaget to one side is plenty.

Got to the range and zeroed it a fity yards. 2 clicks windage and 3 on the elevation and I'm on.

The bad part is I did not get dope at 100. Not only were the targets swinging wildly from the winds, my target frames blew over and worse, were blown away a multiple times. I was hitting it, but the targets didn't stay up long enough to get a group going.

I'll keep the scope another week. I consistently got less than 1 inch groups at 50 when the target stayed up. At least it's holding zero. I'll know if it tracks well next time.
So, if I'm understanding you correctly, it was just chewed up O-rings restricting the travel of the turrets?
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Old 02-07-2016, 9:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
So, if I'm understanding you correctly, it was just chewed up O-rings restricting the travel of the turrets?
I think that may be it. I didn't find anything else wrong, and my elevations suddenly had almost the same range up and down. My windage is still off to one side, but not bad enough that I don't have enough adjustment range.
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Old 02-07-2016, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MarikinaMan View Post
I think that may be it. I didn't find anything else wrong, and my elevations suddenly had almost the same range up and down. My windage is still off to one side, but not bad enough that I don't have enough adjustment range.
Glad it was an easy fix. Thanks for sharing it. Now I have one more simple thing to look for before assuming the worst.

That said, if you ever decide to try to get your mechanical zero closer to your actual zero, I have a secret method to "adjust" your barrel to make your POI closer to your POA, LOL.
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Old 02-08-2016, 2:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishootforblood View Post
If you max out the elevation adjustment, the windage adjustment often stops as well; although it is not maxed out, it just can't move.

You might try "starting over" by mechanically centering the scope. This can be done by counting clicks or revolutions, and setting the reticle to center. OR, remove the scope, and hold it against a mirror (carefully) and adjust the windage & elevation until the reticle is aligned with the reticle's reflection. You might need a flashlight shined at an angle against the mirror to help you see what you are doing.

Some mounts have a built in +20 MOA (or more) specifically to be used for a longer range zero. Again, if you max out the elevation, the windage might be stuck (but not maxed out). What type of mount is it?

Good luck.
Perhaps the solution has nothing to do with the turrets and more to do with the windage adjustment knobs aft of there? Watch the Larry Potterfield video where he makes corrections to the aft portion of the setup, backing off a screw on the left and increasing the torque for the screw on the right.

Last edited by ifilef; 02-08-2016 at 3:24 AM..
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