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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-28-2014, 1:35 PM
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Question CGSSA 2014 Question: How would you suffer?

CGSSA 2014 Question: How would you suffer?

I am asking everyone this question answer it seriously and with detail if possible. I am asking this question to help everyone understand what is at stake and to help you know how to answer the question "why do you need a gun".
One day an anti, or legislator or someone of influence may ask you the question and your answer needs to be honest, real and show consequence.


Here is my answer

My suffering:
  • While living in Phoenix there was one night that Karen came to pick me up at work around 1130 pm. She had both kids in their car seats. While waiting for me a man/pimp was starting to beat up on a woman in the alley Karen had to park in to pick me up. When the male saw that she was there and saw everything he ran towards the car and tried to break in. She drew her .38 and pointed it at the male. He quickly ran off.
  • On another occasion I was at the park with Karen, Sasha (grand daughter) and Penny. I saw two men acting suspiciously near the school buildings, they turned saw Sasha and Penny playing with Karen and decided to walk our way, less than 30 yards. I saw them walking towards us so I moved to a half way position between the two groups. My intent was clear, they stopped made a few stupid gestures and walked off in another direction. I know from my past training and current that i could deal with two jerks, but the what if's started popping up in my mind.
  • Penny was a puppy, would she run off scared and get lost or hurt?
  • What if one had a gun, then what?
  • How would Karen handle Sasha (3 years old) and Penny (8 months old) if they both where scared and running.
  • What happens as Karen and I get older start to lose the ability to really be able to fight back?
  • Karen had just gotten out of her surgical boot three weeks before, what if this had happened 4 weeks before and she had to scoop up Sasha and Penny and run, when she couldn't?
  • Why does my family have to be the victim because someone else is afraid of a gun?
Anyone else?

I am asking a serious question, so please give me your heart felt answer.
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Last edited by pennys dad; 01-28-2014 at 3:59 PM..
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Old 01-28-2014, 2:34 PM
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I was at a bar in San Rafael, a fight broke out on the dance floor. A little guy popped a bigger guy in the jaw and dropped him. Game over right. No. After the night broke up 3 guys jumped the guy and put him in a coma. He later awoke with permanent brain damage. One person with a handgun could have stopped him from spending the rest of his life in managed care, He awoke and was damaged goods. Broke my heart.

I was Followed home by a carload of unwanted individuals. I drove up to a police station but no one would come out. All of the officers were out. They ran and got away. What if I was out in the country. No one around? Or in an unfamiliar place?

I was in a MacDonalds in San Francisco on Ocean avenue when it was robbed. I had a perfect opportunity to stop it had I been armed. Instead he pistol whipeed a mother for standing too close and kicked another woman. He got away with some money and all of our self respect for not being able to help.

I could go on.
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Old 01-28-2014, 3:05 PM
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I don't have anything as dramatic as has been posted already, but my reason is simple: it's essentially an insurance policy. I hope to never need to use it, but I'll be damn glad to have it should I ever need to.
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Old 01-28-2014, 4:53 PM
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Suffer? There could be no end to the potential "suffering" - things like mass genocide and extraction of property comes to mind.

"Why do I need a gun?"

Because there are people in governing power that ask questions like "why do you need a gun?".

They are not expecting an answer; they are expecting you hand it over. They expect you to behave and go quietly, or bad things will happen; to you, your family, anything you care about, the life you created for yourself, and more.

It happens in every civilized country once every 150 years or so, whether that be a civil war or suffrage of tyranny; and the United States is long overdue.

That's why.
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What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

Last edited by The Gleam; 01-28-2014 at 4:59 PM..
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Old 01-28-2014, 5:29 PM
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Looks like we have 3 thoughts so far, what else is out there?
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Old 01-28-2014, 6:15 PM
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'92 Riots - I was only 12 at the time and this was the first time my eyes were opened. We didn't have a gun in the house and people were starting to come into the neighborhood who didn't belong...Police did not respond. A neighbor loaned my father (former army) a handgun and I remember him saying, we need a shotgun. We needed a gun because the Police were not going to be there to help.

Northridge quake '94 - I owned my first rifle now and the first night after the quake, our area still did not have power. Houses were being looted as well as local stores, etc. I was only 14 but I was keeping watch with the loaded rifle... Once again we needed to have a gun because again phones didn't work and there was no way we could call Police to help.

About a year later, someone was trying to kick our door down.. We called the Police but that didn't stop the person from trying to gain entry to our home. We were armed and eventually the person gave up and left. The cops showed up 20 minutes later.

Late 90's, my mother gets jumped coming out of ticketmaster by three men. Because she was not allowed to have a CCW, she began swinging at them with her purse and they pulled knives...she then opened the door to the car and our family dog bit one of them and the other two fled. Had the dog not been there she may not be here today. She's wanted a CCW since this incident and has considered carrying regardless because "being judged by 12 is better than carried by 6".

This past August, my father was about a week from passing away and he was bed ridden at Northridge hispital. I was spending all the time possible and left the hospital around 1am one night and as I was walking home (I live a few blocks away) a man started approaching me asking for a cigarette. I told him I didn't have one and kept walking. The man got agitated and started coming after me asking for me things and kept coming at me getting more agressive, feeling threatened, I pulled my knife and he backed away. Had he had one himself or kept coming I would have wished for a gun.

I want to be able to carry a gun because we live in a neighborhood where we walk quite a bit, but hear gunshots and see police helicopters circling our streets on a regular basis. It's only a matter of time before we need to defend ourselves and the city of LA does not allow us to.

A gun is the best tool which would allow me to defend myself and my family, but again we are not allowed to carry them.
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Old 01-28-2014, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
CGSSA 2014 Question: How would you suffer?

One day an anti, or legislator or someone of influence may ask you the question and your answer needs to be honest, real and show consequence.

I am asking a serious question, so please give me your heart felt answer.
posts 4 and 5 cover the rational response perfectly. I would only like to add if one were to try to answer such a question, as posed by an anti-2A person,

A) regardless of the validity of your answer, the questioner has already decided on his position,

B) merely engaging such a person in a discourse of this sort is a victory for him.
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Old 01-28-2014, 9:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
Here is my answer

My suffering:
  • While living in Phoenix there was one night that Karen came to pick me up at work around 1130 pm. She had both kids in their car seats. While waiting for me a man/pimp was starting to beat up on a woman in the alley Karen had to park in to pick me up. When the male saw that she was there and saw everything he ran towards the car and tried to break in. She drew her .38 and pointed it at the male. He quickly ran off.
  • On another occasion I was at the park with Karen, Sasha (grand daughter) and Penny. I saw two men acting suspiciously near the school buildings, they turned saw Sasha and Penny playing with Karen and decided to walk our way, less than 30 yards. I saw them walking towards us so I moved to a half way position between the two groups. My intent was clear, they stopped made a few stupid gestures and walked off in another direction. I know from my past training and current that i could deal with two jerks, but the what if's started popping up in my mind.
  • Penny was a puppy, would she run off scared and get lost or hurt?
  • What if one had a gun, then what?
  • How would Karen handle Sasha (3 years old) and Penny (8 months old) if they both where scared and running.
  • What happens as Karen and I get older start to lose the ability to really be able to fight back?
  • Karen had just gotten out of her surgical boot three weeks before, what if this had happened 4 weeks before and she had to scoop up Sasha and Penny and run, when she couldn't?
  • Why does my family have to be the victim because someone else is afraid of a gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanimal View Post
I was at a bar in San Rafael, a fight broke out on the dance floor. A little guy popped a bigger guy in the jaw and dropped him. Game over right. No. After the night broke up 3 guys jumped the guy and put him in a coma. He later awoke with permanent brain damage. One person with a handgun could have stopped him from spending the rest of his life in managed care, He awoke and was damaged goods. Broke my heart.

I was Followed home by a carload of unwanted individuals. I drove up to a police station but no one would come out. All of the officers were out. They ran and got away. What if I was out in the country. No one around? Or in an unfamiliar place?

I was in a MacDonalds in San Francisco on Ocean avenue when it was robbed. I had a perfect opportunity to stop it had I been armed. Instead he pistol whipeed a mother for standing too close and kicked another woman. He got away with some money and all of our self respect for not being able to help.
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Originally Posted by Lifeon2whls View Post
'92 Riots - I was only 12 at the time and this was the first time my eyes were opened. We didn't have a gun in the house and people were starting to come into the neighborhood who didn't belong...Police did not respond. A neighbor loaned my father (former army) a handgun and I remember him saying, we need a shotgun. We needed a gun because the Police were not going to be there to help.

Northridge quake '94 - I owned my first rifle now and the first night after the quake, our area still did not have power. Houses were being looted as well as local stores, etc. I was only 14 but I was keeping watch with the loaded rifle... Once again we needed to have a gun because again phones didn't work and there was no way we could call Police to help.

About a year later, someone was trying to kick our door down.. We called the Police but that didn't stop the person from trying to gain entry to our home. We were armed and eventually the person gave up and left. The cops showed up 20 minutes later.

Late 90's, my mother gets jumped coming out of ticketmaster by three men. Because she was not allowed to have a CCW, she began swinging at them with her purse and they pulled knives...she then opened the door to the car and our family dog bit one of them and the other two fled. Had the dog not been there she may not be here today. She's wanted a CCW since this incident and has considered carrying regardless because "being judged by 12 is better than carried by 6".

This past August, my father was about a week from passing away and he was bed ridden at Northridge hispital. I was spending all the time possible and left the hospital around 1am one night and as I was walking home (I live a few blocks away) a man started approaching me asking for a cigarette. I told him I didn't have one and kept walking. The man got agitated and started coming after me asking for me things and kept coming at me getting more agressive, feeling threatened, I pulled my knife and he backed away. Had he had one himself or kept coming I would have wished for a gun.

Of course, such answers make sense to US; but none of these answers will get any form of understanding from those that wish to ban guns and do away with the 2nd Amendment. Not a blip on a heart meter. In many cases, the reply to most of the above would be a smug - "you don't need a gun" or "see, you didn't need a gun after all". These will be seen as solitary "selfish" answers and many are merely "what ifs" that can be disregarded as paranoia.

While they may be honest and real, none show them justifiable "consequence" as to why guns should not be banned.

I can GUARANTEE you an anti, or legislator or someone of influence (that happens to be Anti-2nd Amendment) would look at every single one of your "answers" above, and commence into a slurry of guffaws, chuckles, jibes, full of discount, and then proceed to deride you for EVERY one of those anecdotal answers or worries, calling you paranoid, delusional, having watched too many Hollywood Dirty Harry movies, that you are likely not trained well enough, were lucky whenever a potential thug was deterred, and that more than likely you will accidentally shoot yourself or a family member, and possibly have the gun taken away from you.

Such was the very answer that Colorado's Evie Hudak shot back at rape victim Amanda Collins when Collins gave testimony about having been raped on the campus of University of Nevada at Reno, though she had a CCW and firearm, but could not carry on campus. Her story, carrying great weight, more so than ANY of the replies above, expressing a DIRE consequence, got the very same reaction I am guaranteeing all of the above would receive, especially here in California.

Your "answers" are the oft heard answer, where pandering to reach their emotional sensibilities will fall on deaf but giggling ears, such answers that most always do not give any weight and valid arguments as to how they see the need for banning firearms.

Not one of those answers is justification to them, as they see you in your self-defense and self-preservation by use of a firearm as NO DIFFERENT than the gun violence purported by gang-members, rapists, muggers, and serial killers like Davy Berkowitz and his gun.

They are so wrapped up in seeing inanimate guns as the evil that men do, and not people as evil, that your suffering reasons are mere cartoons in their mind.


Stick to the qualitative reasons, the bigger picture, the just causes as to why the 2nd Amendment was established in the first place, with such answers. Keep it simple, because they don't care otherwise. These are such people that give instructions for rape victims to carry condoms for their attackers, rather than carry methods of self-defense.

They won't care until it happens to them; but by then, it might be too late.
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

Last edited by The Gleam; 01-28-2014 at 9:43 PM..
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Old 01-29-2014, 9:07 AM
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I've got one.

In the late 1990's, my father in law (FIL) was working (as a manager) in a local small hardware store here in Southern California. One day, while working alone in the store, a criminal armed with a revolver walked into the store and demanded that my FIL open the cash register and give him the money. My FIL followed the armed robber's request and opened the register and calmly handed him a bag a little over $200 from the cash register. Not satisfied with his take, the armed robber then demanded that my FIL go to the back of the store where they keep the safe and open it. Again, my FIL followed the armed robber's request and walked to the back of the store where the safe was and opened it. The armed robber demanded my FIL to empty the safe into another bag which my father again calmly complied. While my FIL was on his knees, by the opened and empty safe, the armed robber proceeded to shoot my FIL twice and ran out of the store. One shot entered his right upper leg and lodged itself against his right femur. The other shot entered his raised right hand and traveled along his radius bone tearing through nerves and flesh and then finally exiting near his elbow.

My FIL was able to call 911 after the incident where it took several minutes for police and emergency services to reach the store.

My FIL spent the next month and a half in the hospital undergoing numerous surgeries to remove the bullet lodged in his right leg and attempting to reconstruct and repair the damage done to his right forearm.

Luckily, the first bullet passed directly through muscle tissue in his right leg and did not damage any nerves or arteries. He walks without issue to this day. Unfortunately, the damage done to his right arm was substantial. Due to severe nerve and muscle damage, he's left with about 20% mobility of his right forearm/hand. If he had not had his hand raised, the second bullet would have entered into his chest and would have most likely killed him.

The bullets were determined to be .38 caliber and the armed robber was never caught.

If he had been carrying a firearm that day, he would have been able to protect himself.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:21 AM
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While running last summer a large pit bull weighing about 100 pounds came running out of an un-fenced yard straight at me. Having been in similar situations before, I knew that there was no way I could outrun the dog, and running would only cause him to chase further. I began yelling as loudly as I could back at him, stood on my tip toes and spread my arms out as far as possible. Making myself look intimidating to him was my only chance. Luckily, this worked and he slowly backed away, but had he not retreated, a gun would have been my only hope.
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Here is how their "logic" works: "Thank you Gov. Brown for anally raping me with a baseball bat instead of a two by four. You are so nice and caring, I appreciate you being so gentle"
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by The Gleam View Post

I can GUARANTEE you an anti, or legislator or someone of influence (that happens to be Anti-2nd Amendment) would look at every single one of your "answers" above, and commence into a slurry of guffaws, chuckles, jibes, full of discount, and then proceed to deride you for EVERY one of those anecdotal answers or worries, calling you paranoid, delusional, having watched too many Hollywood Dirty Harry movies, that you are likely not trained well enough, were lucky whenever a potential thug was deterred, and that more than likely you will accidentally shoot yourself or a family member, and possibly have the gun taken away from you.

Not one of those answers is justification to them, as they see you in your self-defense and self-preservation by use of a firearm as NO DIFFERENT than the gun violence purported by gang-members, rapists, muggers, and serial killers like Davy Berkowitz and his gun.

They are so wrapped up in seeing inanimate guns as the evil that men do, and not people as evil, that your suffering reasons are mere cartoons in their mind.


Stick to the qualitative reasons, the bigger picture, the just causes as to why the 2nd Amendment was established in the first place, with such answers. Keep it simple, because they don't care otherwise. These are such people that give instructions for rape victims to carry condoms for their attackers, rather than carry methods of self-defense.

They won't care until it happens to them; but by then, it might be too late.
I agree and disagree. I've met the people you are referring to and when I spoke about the life encounters I've had, I was met with all the responses you posted. I presented the 2A argument but there isn't any arguing with these people. Their minds are made up (much like ours) and they will not be swayed. However, I've also met many people who are anti's that keep an open mind and have been willing to have an intelligent conversation regarding the topic. Those are the people we need to target and not waste our time on those who are deadfast in their ways.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Lifeon2whls View Post
I agree and disagree. I've met the people you are referring to and when I spoke about the life encounters I've had, I was met with all the responses you posted. I presented the 2A argument but there isn't any arguing with these people. Their minds are made up (much like ours) and they will not be swayed. However, I've also met many people who are anti's that keep an open mind and have been willing to have an intelligent conversation regarding the topic. Those are the people we need to target and not waste our time on those who are deadfast in their ways.
True, true. There are always exceptions. Just need to gauge your listener to their being apt to a conversation of proposition and statistics/historical results, or one of "what if it were you, because it happened to me."

I've had my own situations as well time to time, but the most poignant being just over 20 years ago, at a First Interstate ATM, and that first-hand experience saving my own hide in presenting the baseball-bat carrying would-be mugger, a head taller than me, with the opposition of a Colt Police Positive in .38S&W that I happened to have with me, which persuaded me for life on the attributes of concealed carry, and hopefully persuaded him to end his career without my having fired a single shot.

However, I was impressed at how fast he could run, so I am hoping he turned that talent into a productive Olympics pursuit, rather than repeating his attempts at being a lead depository receptacle.
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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Old 01-29-2014, 1:23 PM
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If the person is genuinely interested, I run down the usual laundry list of why guns make sense.

If the person is an anti and not really open to reason my response is along the lines of "the burden is not on me to justify ownership of a gun, the burden is on you to justify restricting my constitutional rights to own a gun".

I find most anti's are not prepared for that argument.

-Ruskie
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-Hon. Alex Kozinski (Silvera v Lockyer, 2003)
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Old 01-29-2014, 3:54 PM
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On a personal level, I am thankful that I have never had to draw a firearm for personal protection. However, I am an attorney and I practice a good deal of family law. I deal with many persons (clients and opposing parties) under restraining orders, those under severe emotional stress, and I have had my share of threats from opposing parties. There is no shortage of media reports of family law attorneys being killed by disgruntled parties (usually after losing custody of children or losing property like a house or pension). I would suffer without the security of a firearm by my side in my home and in my office. And I do suffer now by not being able to carry concealed once I walk out the door of those places, where I am probably the most vulnerable (OC Sheriff does not consider my profession one that places me at a higher risk than the general population). Funny thing is, I have spoken to many anti-gun and anti-CCW folks who, when I describe this circumstance, even concede "well, I would be ok with YOU being armed in public".

On a macro level, I don't think anybody has iterated it better than Judge Alex Kozinski in his dissenting opinion in Silveira v. Lockyer:

Quote:
The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do. But few saw the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once.
We will all suffer if politicians feel like they can ignore the ultimate will of the people: the ballot box. For all of the freedoms we have had compromised in our 238 year history, we still have the absolute right to vote. When people have attempted to suppress that right over the years, most often it is the use or threat of arms that ultimately restores those rights. As long as there is an armed populace, elected officials will continue to voluntarily step down once directed to do so by the voters. If we lose that right, who knows what will happen?
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Old 01-29-2014, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BumBum View Post
On a personal level, I am thankful that I have never had to draw a firearm for personal protection. However, I am an attorney and I practice a good deal of family law. I deal with many persons (clients and opposing parties) under restraining orders, those under severe emotional stress, and I have had my share of threats from opposing parties. There is no shortage of media reports of family law attorneys being killed by disgruntled parties (usually after losing custody of children or losing property like a house or pension). I would suffer without the security of a firearm by my side in my home and in my office. And I do suffer now by not being able to carry concealed once I walk out the door of those places, where I am probably the most vulnerable (OC Sheriff does not consider my profession one that places me at a higher risk than the general population). Funny thing is, I have spoken to many anti-gun and anti-CCW folks who, when I describe this circumstance, even concede "well, I would be ok with YOU being armed in public".

On a macro level, I don't think anybody has iterated it better than Judge Alex Kozinski in his dissenting opinion in Silveira v. Lockyer:

Quote:
The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do. But few saw the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once.
We will all suffer if politicians feel like they can ignore the ultimate will of the people: the ballot box. For all of the freedoms we have had compromised in our 238 year history, we still have the absolute right to vote. When people have attempted to suppress that right over the years, most often it is the use or threat of arms that ultimately restores those rights. As long as there is an armed populace, elected officials will continue to voluntarily step down once directed to do so by the voters. If we lose that right, who knows what will happen?
correct me if I'm wrong here. we are seeing this today and now. it happened last year. like many here who called and emailed these so called legislators and were basically ignored or laughed at outright. they vote they way they want either by agenda or that government should only have guns and people be subjects not citizens.
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Old 01-30-2014, 1:51 PM
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The Gleam. Your point is 100% on point we should not have to defend our right, because it is not a right given to us by man it is just a basic right of self preservation, given to us by virtue of being alive.
Unfortunately the others dont see it that way.

Rant On :-)

The purpose of this thread is mainly for us. Sometimes we forget what we are here for, we get beaten down, rolled over, called names, looked at as if we were somehow second class citizens and IT IS JUST F'ING STUPID.

All I want to do is be prepared, protect and practice and NOT DEPEND on someone else when it comes to the safety of my family and friends.
Respectfully to Law Enforcement Officers, they are not my last line of defense, they are my first line of deterrent but in those last 5 critical minutes of defense, when we (the gun owner) are the last and only line left and I Don't want to be left Standing at the Line Holding Sorrow and Regret because the (ANTI GUN) person down the street is afraid of a gun.

So this thread is a reminder but also some hope. I own therefore I protect.
I practice therefore I care and for this I must be prepared.

:-) Rant off
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Old 01-30-2014, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
The Gleam. Your point is 100% on point we should not have to defend our right, because it is not a right given to us by man it is just a basic right of self preservation, given to us by virtue of being alive.
Unfortunately the others dont see it that way.

Rant On :-)

The purpose of this thread is mainly for us. Sometimes we forget what we are here for, we get beaten down, rolled over, called names, looked at as if we were somehow second class citizens and IT IS JUST F'ING STUPID.

All I want to do is be prepared, protect and practice and NOT DEPEND on someone else when it comes to the safety of my family and friends.
Respectfully to Law Enforcement Officers, they are not my last line of defense, they are my first line of deterrent but in those last 5 critical minutes of defense, when we (the gun owner) are the last and only line left and I Don't want to be left Standing at the Line Holding Sorrow and Regret because the (ANTI GUN) person down the street is afraid of a gun.

So this thread is a reminder but also some hope. I own therefore I protect.
I practice therefore I care and for this I must be prepared.

:-) Rant off
I get it.

And none of us would have to rant or examine how we have been marginalized, if this were the country I remember it having been 30 years ago.
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What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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Old 01-31-2014, 1:43 PM
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I had a similar conversation the other day.

A gentleman asked me "why do you need more than 10 rounds?" "What law-abiding person needs more than 10 rounds, really?"

This nice gentleman is a very nice, competent, intelligent person who works at the local gun store. It's the same sentiment expressed by Bill Ruger years ago. And where has it gotten us?

I asked the man, "why does Justin Bieber NEED a Lamborghini?" He replied, "it's about want." This is true, and I've made this argument before. However, I've come to realize that it's not about want, either. I asked, "why do you NEED your own vehicle, when there's public transportation? Why do you NEED a gun, when there are police? Why do you NEED gas for $3.00/gallon? Why do you NEED a house with more than 1000 square feet? Why do you NEED a house of your own, instead of sharing it with 2 other families?"

My point is that it's not about need. It's not about want. It's a question of LIBERTY. Don't let them even ask the question. Tell them it's a matter of liberty, guaranteed by the US Constitution, whereas birth control is not. So turn it back on them, and ask them why 14-year-olds in CA NEED to have an abortion. Without their parents' consent or even notification. Ask them why we NEED high-speed rail paid for by the citizens of CA. Ask them why they NEED to smoke pot. Ask them why they NEED freedom of speech. Ask them why they NEED privacy (after all, we should have nothing to hide from the NSA, RIGHT????).

Don't let them get away with asking that question. It's a trap, and it's an argument that can't be won. As soon as you accept the basis of the question, you cede to the government the right to determine what your needs are. IT'S NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB TO DICTATE TO US WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE!!! It's not the liberals place to dictate to us what we need or don't need! WE tell THEM what we need.

Ah, and then we get to deal with the "needs" of the government. In 1974, the SCOTUS said that the Border Patrol "needed" to be able to conduct interior checkpoints. Have you had your civil rights violated by them lately? I have! Almost every time I go through one! SCOTUS said that these are "necessary" for the BP to be able to do its job. The BP described the "typical" circumstances and methods at 2 of these checkpoints to the courts, and SCOTUS said something like "as long as it's within that scope (short, not terribly inconvenient to the drivers), it's ok because the BP *NEEDS* these checkpoints." So now, the supposed NEEDS of the government are more weighty than the LIBERTIES of the people. So when they NEED your property, they can just pull an imminent domain on you, and take it. The NSA *NEEDS* to be able to listen in on your phone calls in order to protect you! Your individual liberties are meaningless when the gubmint NEEDS them to be.

I repeat: don't even open the door to that argument. Slam that door hard, lock it down, and take it right back to them. Liberty is the principle, and if they don't like it, tell them to change the Constitution. Otherwise, they will tell you that you don't NEED a CCW, and you don't NEED open carry, and you don't NEED "unsafe guns", and you don't NEED .50 cal rifles.

Oh.

Wait...

They already did that.

As I said to the gentleman at the LGS: "I'm done preaching now"
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Old 01-31-2014, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matavenados View Post
I had a similar conversation the other day.

A gentleman asked me "why do you need more than 10 rounds?" "What law-abiding person needs more than 10 rounds, really?"

This nice gentleman is a very nice, competent, intelligent person who works at the local gun store. It's the same sentiment expressed by Bill Ruger years ago. And where has it gotten us?

I asked the man, "why does Justin Bieber NEED a Lamborghini?" He replied, "it's about want." This is true, and I've made this argument before. However, I've come to realize that it's not about want, either. I asked, "why do you NEED your own vehicle, when there's public transportation? Why do you NEED a gun, when there are police? Why do you NEED gas for $3.00/gallon? Why do you NEED a house with more than 1000 square feet? Why do you NEED a house of your own, instead of sharing it with 2 other families?"

My point is that it's not about need. It's not about want. It's a question of LIBERTY. Don't let them even ask the question. Tell them it's a matter of liberty, guaranteed by the US Constitution, whereas birth control is not. So turn it back on them, and ask them why 14-year-olds in CA NEED to have an abortion. Without their parents' consent or even notification. Ask them why we NEED high-speed rail paid for by the citizens of CA. Ask them why they NEED to smoke pot. Ask them why they NEED freedom of speech. Ask them why they NEED privacy (after all, we should have nothing to hide from the NSA, RIGHT????).

Don't let them get away with asking that question. It's a trap, and it's an argument that can't be won. As soon as you accept the basis of the question, you cede to the government the right to determine what your needs are. IT'S NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB TO DICTATE TO US WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE!!! It's not the liberals place to dictate to us what we need or don't need! WE tell THEM what we need.

Ah, and then we get to deal with the "needs" of the government. In 1974, the SCOTUS said that the Border Patrol "needed" to be able to conduct interior checkpoints. Have you had your civil rights violated by them lately? I have! Almost every time I go through one! SCOTUS said that these are "necessary" for the BP to be able to do its job. The BP described the "typical" circumstances and methods at 2 of these checkpoints to the courts, and SCOTUS said something like "as long as it's within that scope (short, not terribly inconvenient to the drivers), it's ok because the BP *NEEDS* these checkpoints." So now, the supposed NEEDS of the government are more weighty than the LIBERTIES of the people. So when they NEED your property, they can just pull an imminent domain on you, and take it. The NSA *NEEDS* to be able to listen in on your phone calls in order to protect you! Your individual liberties are meaningless when the gubmint NEEDS them to be.

I repeat: don't even open the door to that argument. Slam that door hard, lock it down, and take it right back to them. Liberty is the principle, and if they don't like it, tell them to change the Constitution. Otherwise, they will tell you that you don't NEED a CCW, and you don't NEED open carry, and you don't NEED "unsafe guns", and you don't NEED .50 cal rifles.

Oh.

Wait...

They already did that.

As I said to the gentleman at the LGS: "I'm done preaching now"
Yeah came to same conclusion. Why do the jerks in the media need free speech? Answer of course is its a right. Gun rights is the only right that some people, mostly progressive people on the left want to restrict rather than expand.
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Old 02-02-2014, 4:09 PM
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Because in my and other's experience, many people will take advantage of a situation at others expense, and I love my wife, family, and friends too much to idly stand by and watch them come to harm.

I've had thugs running from cops run straight through my yard, witnessed a shooting down the street, where the shooter turned when he saw me and my wife (then fiancee) and shoot one in our direction. I heard the 'zing' as we dropped to the ground. if he and his buddies came to do more than scare us later on, and we didn't have my rifle, it could have been a much different ending. They didn't, and we did.

I love shooting sports, and they are a harmless and pleasurable pass time for me and my wife, relieve stress, and produce endorphins and adrenaline. I would suffer withdrawal and other negative side effects without it.
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Old 02-02-2014, 7:02 PM
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Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Above is my answer to any and all BS democrat questions. The founding fathers were talking about the "arms" in use at the time not slingshots or bows when the military was using blackpowder. This is still America right? Why do I need to prove my suffering to not have my constitutional rights violated?
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Old 02-02-2014, 7:33 PM
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Well, Mr. or Ms. Anti-gun person:
"Why do you need Freedom of Speech?
"Why do you need Freedom of Religion?
"Why do you need Freedom of the Press?
"These are all fundamental freedoms imparted to us by the Bill of Rights. I do not have to defend the freedom to own a gun any more than you have to defend any of your freedoms. I think it is hypocritical for you to challenge certain rights just because you don't believe in them, unless you simply don't believe in the Bill of Rights. Who are you to pick and choose which portions of the Bill of Rights do and do not apply? If you are against a portion of the Bill of Rights then there is a process for amending it. Until you go through this process and eliminate the Second Amendment, I intend to continue exercising my fundamental right without explanation to you."
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Old 02-02-2014, 7:43 PM
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The purpose of the above post is to turn the argument. When someone asks you to explain why you need a gun you are immediately on the defensive. It is important to point out to the person who asks that no explanation is required. Owning a gun is a fundamental right like other freedoms. Challenge them to explain why those other freedoms are important to them.

We as a group need to always elevate the Second Amendment to the same level as other portions of the Bill of Rights. We need to point out the hypocrisy of choosing certain rights as essential while assaulting others. Instead of responding to a question as to why we "need" to exercise a right, point out the fallacy of the question itself.
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Old 02-02-2014, 7:49 PM
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I need a gun the same way I need free speech, my privacy, my right to worship my God how I choose, and all my other God given rights. Because without them I am not free and not able to live the way God created me to be.
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Old 02-02-2014, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhart356 View Post
Well, Mr. or Ms. Anti-gun person:
"Why do you need Freedom of Speech?
"Why do you need Freedom of Religion?
"Why do you need Freedom of the Press?
"These are all fundamental freedoms imparted to us by the Bill of Rights. I do not have to defend the freedom to own a gun any more than you have to defend any of your freedoms. I think it is hypocritical for you to challenge certain rights just because you don't believe in them, unless you simply don't believe in the Bill of Rights. Who are you to pick and choose which portions of the Bill of Rights do and do not apply? If you are against a portion of the Bill of Rights then there is a process for amending it. Until you go through this process and eliminate the Second Amendment, I intend to continue exercising my fundamental right without explanation to you."
^^^ This
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Old 02-02-2014, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by skilletboy View Post
I need a gun the same way I need free speech, my privacy, my right to worship my God how I choose, and all my other God given rights. Because without them I am not free and not able to live the way God created me to be.
^^^ and this
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Old 02-03-2014, 5:57 AM
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In 1994 I was working at a gas station in downtown Malibu. When a truck with 6 individuals pulled in to the station and became engaged in an argument with a regular customer over a gas pump. The confrontation quickly turned to a physical altercation at which point we called 911. The fight of 5 on one continued for 10 minutes. 2 of the five had weapons (baseball bat and tire iron). Finally one of the men from the truck pulled a firearm and started shooting wildly at anything that moved. All this time we were on the phone with 911 and no sheriffs had shown up. A total of 10 rounds were fired before the men got back in their truck. One man in the truck reloaded and continued to fire from the bed of the truck. Had I or some other citizen had a firearm, this may not have happened in this way.

The one man was beat to hell, enquiring hospitalization, and the group in the truck was never found. Which is amazing as there are 3 ways out of downtown Malibu, and this confrontation took 15 minutes while on the phone with 911.

A total if 13 rounds were found embedded in different locations, including one round which missed me by inches.
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Old 02-04-2014, 7:30 AM
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Home invasion robbery. I had a G21; no shots required and no shots fired.

The most difficult part was convincing the dispatcher to send units because she kept asking why I "needed" a gun in my own home.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by The Gleam View Post
Of course, such answers make sense to US; but none of these answers will get any form of understanding from those that wish to ban guns and do away with the 2nd Amendment. Not a blip on a heart meter. In many cases, the reply to most of the above would be a smug - "you don't need a gun" or "see, you didn't need a gun after all". These will be seen as solitary "selfish" answers and many are merely "what ifs" that can be disregarded as paranoia.

While they may be honest and real, none show them justifiable "consequence" as to why guns should not be banned.

I can GUARANTEE you an anti, or legislator or someone of influence (that happens to be Anti-2nd Amendment) would look at every single one of your "answers" above, and commence into a slurry of guffaws, chuckles, jibes, full of discount, and then proceed to deride you for EVERY one of those anecdotal answers or worries, calling you paranoid, delusional, having watched too many Hollywood Dirty Harry movies, that you are likely not trained well enough, were lucky whenever a potential thug was deterred, and that more than likely you will accidentally shoot yourself or a family member, and possibly have the gun taken away from you.

Such was the very answer that Colorado's Evie Hudak shot back at rape victim Amanda Collins when Collins gave testimony about having been raped on the campus of University of Nevada at Reno, though she had a CCW and firearm, but could not carry on campus. Her story, carrying great weight, more so than ANY of the replies above, expressing a DIRE consequence, got the very same reaction I am guaranteeing all of the above would receive, especially here in California.

Your "answers" are the oft heard answer, where pandering to reach their emotional sensibilities will fall on deaf but giggling ears, such answers that most always do not give any weight and valid arguments as to how they see the need for banning firearms.

Not one of those answers is justification to them, as they see you in your self-defense and self-preservation by use of a firearm as NO DIFFERENT than the gun violence purported by gang-members, rapists, muggers, and serial killers like Davy Berkowitz and his gun.

They are so wrapped up in seeing inanimate guns as the evil that men do, and not people as evil, that your suffering reasons are mere cartoons in their mind.


Stick to the qualitative reasons, the bigger picture, the just causes as to why the 2nd Amendment was established in the first place, with such answers. Keep it simple, because they don't care otherwise. These are such people that give instructions for rape victims to carry condoms for their attackers, rather than carry methods of self-defense.

They won't care until it happens to them; but by then, it might be too late.
Very well said Gleam, you hit the nail on the head. Also the quote by Librarian at the end was right on the money too.. Time to jump off this sinking ship is rapidly approaching..
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Old 02-06-2014, 9:37 PM
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Here's my answer, which antis will almost assuredly find impudent, but it's the honest to goodness truth:

I've never been in a situation where I felt I might need to use a firearm to protect myself or others. I've been fortunate enough to grow up, work, go to school, and live in neighborhoods that are generally safe. But I will still suffer. I will suffer the same way that a white person suffers when society discriminates against a non-white person, or the same way that a man suffers when a woman is denied an abortion, or the same way a straight person suffers when a gay person is denied the ability to marry a person of the same sex, or the same way a person who has committed no crime suffers when a criminal is denied due process or subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. When constitutional rights are infringed, we all suffer - even those who will never need to exercise a particular right in their entire lives.

And that's putting aside the possibility that tomorrow, someone could come into my generally safe neighborhood with no forewarning and decide to start trouble.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:16 PM
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It pains me that no one has mentioned the security of a free state.

A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The people's right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed - because the security of a free state is the most important thing the constitution's framers could think of.
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Old 02-07-2014, 6:00 AM
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I wear a seat belt not because I plan on getting in an crash. I have life insurance for my family, not because I plan on dying. I have smoke detectors, not because the house is already on fire. I need a gun for the same reason, and just like those other tools hope to never use them.

Last edited by Corato; 02-07-2014 at 6:22 AM..
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Old 02-07-2014, 6:37 AM
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Although I've never been asked this question by anyone of importance, IMO, this is a question that does not "need" to be answered. It starts a round-and-round point/counterpoint that typically leads nowhere.

No one needs this... no one needs that... guns kill people... guns are dangerous... people kill people.. cars kill people... cars are for transportation... you can take a bus... doctors kill people... doctors help people... guns are legal.... that gun should be illegal... 2A protects me.... muskets... Rinse and repeat.

Only response that I can think of is not to respond. Just like I really don't care to explain why I eat cheerios, drive a certain car, drink a certain drink, raise my kids a certain way etc.

They are asking with the intent of changing your mind/ decisions. I don't feel the need to give them that kind of power over my life.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:42 AM
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I was 6 years old when the riots broke out in Detroit in 1967. I can still remember the shotguns propped up against the headboard on either side of mom and dad's bed. A little more than a year later we moved from the suburbs into farm country some 100 miles away.

We live in a perilous world and I have a right to protect myself and my loved ones from those that would do us harm.
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Old 02-07-2014, 8:40 PM
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I'd miss the clarity of mind that comes with shooting, the focus and coordinated concentration of mental and physical processes.
I like having an ideal of excellence to work towards, a perfect accuracy I'll never attain but can always strive for. Shooting is something I look forward to, one of the highlights of my week.
But it's more than just a personal quest for accuracy. It's also a social activity that I share with friends. We support and encourage each other, offer suggestions and share insights.
For me, shooting is an individual and a social activity. Nothing is quite like it. Nothing could replace it.
I would also miss the aesthetics of firearms. Many are very beautiful. They have a precision and purity like Zen Haiku or a well written mathematical proof--formally rigorous without extraneous frills. They are appealing and interesting in themselves as objects, independent of their use.
Lastly, I'd feel deprived of a concrete relation to history.
For instance, I have an SKS likely used in Vietnam. Often when I hold it, I think about what people experienced during the war, regardless of what side they were on. I think about how those events shaped my life and the lives of people I know. Holding the SKS prompts reflection. It makes history more real and relevant to the present.
Paradoxical as it may seem to the anti-gun crowd, firearms can be a catalyst to both empathy and understanding. So, besides the loss of enjoyment and aesthetic fulfillment I get from firearms, I'd also experience a loss of connection to history. These losses would be even worse if extended to future generations.
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  #36  
Old 02-07-2014, 9:30 PM
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Well, lets see...

About 2001, 2002 I was doing deliveries for a big chain store. I delivered a TV to a customer in Antioch,CA. The guy and his family acted really strange. The father had this big growth on his face and when his daughter tried to talk to me he started yelling at her telling her to shut up.We finally just unboxed the TV and shoved it through the front door.

As we were leaving this old guy living next door came out and started talking to us. Asking if we saw a girl in their and saying he wasn't supposed to be around women and when we confirmed seeing a girl he said he was going to call the police.

All of the people their seemed like a bunch of nut jobs so we laughed about it when we drove off. I used to tell people the story when we would talk about some of the crazy people we had to deal with.

About 2009 I see the same weird guy on TV. The girl I had thought was his daughter and who tried to talk to me was Jaycee Dugard. She was maybe 28 at this point and had been captive for 18 years.

I own firearms because of people like him and worse.

He's not the only evil person that I've come across it my life. I've lost friends and co-workers to violence. I've been in a situation where I could of lost my own live.

Don't ask me how I would suffer. Ask the parents of children like Jaycee how they suffered. Most don't get their kids back.
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  #37  
Old 02-21-2014, 11:12 AM
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I live in Los Angeles at the base of the Hollywood Hills. My wife and I had lived in the home for about 3 months when I came home one afternoon to find we had been robbed. We live literally right next to one of many public staircases that make their way up to other higher streets. The staircase by my house is used by many people to exercise, walk their dogs, walk with their children, watch sunsets etc. However it is also used by the street rats and less desirable types here in LA, the addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, gangsters, thieves casing homes etc. Our street has 13 homes on it and on average there are about 5-6 break-ins per year (even more attempted break-ins) just on my street alone. Mater of fact my next door neighbors home had an attempted break-in just last night (no joke). The staircase has been a hot spot for "gangsters" who have been fighting for it as territory. The 3 main gangs that we have been dealing with are Armenian Power, White Fence and MS13. LAPD has been working with the homeowners (all but two homes on our street are inhabited by owners not renters) and have done a great job I must say. I have became familiar with many of the officers who work the Hollywood division and the gang intervention units. I have been responsible for a few arrests of these types on our street as I make my presence known to these thugs and I don't hesitate to confront them or have them arrested . I am not one to hide behind my curtains as most people I have meet here in LA do. I have been threatened with a firearm, I have gotten into a physical altercation with 3 members of Armenian Power and have had thugs threaten me with violence. I have learned pretty quick though that most of these little turds are really just big ***** talkers and unless they have friends with them they tend to dip out pretty quick when I approach. They have even parked in my driveway and hang out thinking they are on a public street since my driveway connects in a way that might give that impression (hard to explain). However I put a stop to that pretty quick and "kindly" informed anyone I caught that they were not on public property... So now when I come home and make the turn onto my drive there aren't 4-5 guys smoking blunts and drinking 40z. I have numerous police reports to document all of this and am now considering applying for a concealed carry permit now that it appears LA county might be forced to start issuing them in greater numbers. I already carry concealed when on my property as well as my next door neighbors property since I have his permission and our properties adjoin each others. It's pretty amazing to me though how shocked many of these thugs are when someone like me steps up, I'm guessing their not used to people like me since the other 99% of LA are terrified of these little POS. Where I grew up people protected and defended their neighborhoods rather then surrender them to thugs. I guess it's too bad there aren't more transplant country boys like me in LA....

Last edited by CenterMass90068; 02-21-2014 at 12:56 PM..
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Old 03-30-2014, 7:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gleam View Post
Of course, such answers make sense to US; but none of these answers will get any form of understanding from those that wish to ban guns and do away with the 2nd Amendment. Not a blip on a heart meter. In many cases, the reply to most of the above would be a smug - "you don't need a gun" or "see, you didn't need a gun after all". These will be seen as solitary "selfish" answers and many are merely "what ifs" that can be disregarded as paranoia.

While they may be honest and real, none show them justifiable "consequence" as to why guns should not be banned.

I can GUARANTEE you an anti, or legislator or someone of influence (that happens to be Anti-2nd Amendment) would look at every single one of your "answers" above, and commence into a slurry of guffaws, chuckles, jibes, full of discount, and then proceed to deride you for EVERY one of those anecdotal answers or worries, calling you paranoid, delusional, having watched too many Hollywood Dirty Harry movies, that you are likely not trained well enough, were lucky whenever a potential thug was deterred, and that more than likely you will accidentally shoot yourself or a family member, and possibly have the gun taken away from you.

Such was the very answer that Colorado's Evie Hudak shot back at rape victim Amanda Collins when Collins gave testimony about having been raped on the campus of University of Nevada at Reno, though she had a CCW and firearm, but could not carry on campus. Her story, carrying great weight, more so than ANY of the replies above, expressing a DIRE consequence, got the very same reaction I am guaranteeing all of the above would receive, especially here in California.

Your "answers" are the oft heard answer, where pandering to reach their emotional sensibilities will fall on deaf but giggling ears, such answers that most always do not give any weight and valid arguments as to how they see the need for banning firearms.

Not one of those answers is justification to them, as they see you in your self-defense and self-preservation by use of a firearm as NO DIFFERENT than the gun violence purported by gang-members, rapists, muggers, and serial killers like Davy Berkowitz and his gun.

They are so wrapped up in seeing inanimate guns as the evil that men do, and not people as evil, that your suffering reasons are mere cartoons in their mind.


Stick to the qualitative reasons, the bigger picture, the just causes as to why the 2nd Amendment was established in the first place, with such answers. Keep it simple, because they don't care otherwise. These are such people that give instructions for rape victims to carry condoms for their attackers, rather than carry methods of self-defense.

They won't care until it happens to them; but by then, it might be too late.
Great. So your succinct, powerful, pithy answer to them is.......?
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  #39  
Old 04-02-2014, 11:46 AM
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While I don't believe any of our current politicians have any real interest in us except to manipulate us for votes, shared stories are good for us in that they are what make up a culture. And we definitely need to grow and sustain the gun culture in the USA, so that we aren't demographically "extinct" within 50 years.

Anyway, here's one of my handful of true stories:

A long time ago, when I was a high schooler in the racist Deep South, I was passing by a house party with a couple of my friends. The partiers were students from the same school, about 30 drunk teens spilled out on the lawn late at night. One of them, due to beer goggles and an optical illusion in the dark, thought he saw me kick one of their cars, and they went into full-on lynch mob mode.

I had just gotten into the passenger side of my friend's van, and they came running over, yanked open the door, and started trying to pull me out, while repeatedly assaulting me and yelling various racial epithets. It was only by divine protection that I happened to have put on my seat belt a few seconds before the attack, otherwise I would be dead or seriously injured now, having done nothing wrong.

The mob damaged my friend's van pretty heavily with fists and feet. I recognized several of the assailants including the one who hit me the most. And of course I pressed charges. The guy got off on a technicality: because I was not able to prove that he out of the 30 people was the one that struck me and caused the serious injuries to my face (in other words, some other person from the mob could have done the damage), he was acquitted.

It taught me several precious and visceral lessons:

1) Get the hell out of the racist South.

2) The rule of law is important, but it is not perfect. I understood firsthand what it means to say, "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." I knew I had to let this guy go, because a law so tight that would have caught him and done justice would have caught thousands or millions of other innocents. It was essentially my word against his; I had no DNA evidence from his knuckles, etc. (At the time, rapes were more common because DNA testing was extremely rare.)

3) Speaking of the rule of law not being perfect: personal defense is on each one of us. It's not a duty that we can outsource to the cops. They weren't there for the beating or the car chase afterwards where the drunk teens tried to catch up to our van when we were fleeing for our lives. This was before cell phones were widespread, so we were only able to call the cops after we had already gotten away.

4) Magazine capacity restrictions can harm us. What's a 10 round mag going to do for me against 30 assailants? Would I be able to do a mag change while people are trying to yank me out of a car so hard that the seat belt locked up? I'll just have made any remaining surviving assailants really mad and given them the excuse to use lethal force against me. (Granted, not all of the 30 people there would have attacked me. Nearly all of the assaulting was done by 3 people, mainly due to the van door preventing more from getting at me. And even if they had gotten me out of the van, most of the 30 probably would have just watched and egged the attackers on, just like today's mob violence, except that today most would be filming the attack on their cellphones for YouTube. The responsibility falls on me, though, how many of those 30 deserve a bullet? That doesn't weaken the need for standard capacity mags, especially given that it may take two or three rounds to stop each assailant--it just reminds us that as gun owners, we have an extra duty to be on top of our use of lethal force.)

Of course, we were underage, so we couldn't even own guns at the time, but that doesn't change the lessons above, because an assault can happen to you at any age. Just ask the elderly victims of the knockout game in NYC.

Last edited by dchang0; 04-02-2014 at 12:10 PM..
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  #40  
Old 04-02-2014, 2:37 PM
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I guess You can throw mine in with #4 by The Gleam. "why do I need a gun?"
I say as far as I am concerned, it is my business what I own, why I want/need it, and what I plan to do with it. This government has gone way way too far in prying into our private lives. Sometimes I regret buying guns legally because now somewhere there is a list with my name on it along with my purchases. I need a gun because I want it. And I want it because I may need it.
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