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  #1  
Old 01-15-2014, 11:39 AM
drifting drifting is offline
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Default 124gr 9mm or 124gr +P 9mm for self defense?

Anyone tried Speer Gold Dot 124gr 9mm vs 124gr +P 9mm? Is there a noticeable difference in controlability, recoil, and follow-up shot accuracy? My practice rounds are 124 gr FMJ standard loads so I want my defensive round to be roughly equivalent, especially, under stressed situation, i can be more confident with where the bullets hit.

Last edited by drifting; 01-15-2014 at 11:49 AM..
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:01 PM
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You're going to feel a big difference between that SD ammo and your practice rounds.

Best thing to do is practice with the actual ammo you'll be using from time to time.

Personally I'm too cheap to do that. I run a box of my SD ammo through my pistol just to check for reliability and then call it good.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:28 PM
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Yes, you can feel the difference.

I have not noticed that it effects the results of my shooting, but you can definitely feel the difference.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:32 PM
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If you have a longer barrel, such as 4" or more, I think standard pressure can reach optimal velocity. If you have a 3" barrel, you may want +P. Look up your defensive ammo on the manufacturer's site, they should have this information to help you choose which load is right for you.

Training with +P might get expensive.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:50 PM
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Just learning to control recoil, get accurate hits on target, and taking defensive shooting classes will be waaaaaaaaaaay more important than trying to duplicate your defensive rounds with practice ammo.
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Old 01-15-2014, 1:01 PM
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I wouldn't use either. 147 grn in 9mm for self defense.

But, yes, you will definitely notice a difference in blast, volume, and recoil between standard and +P in nearly all defensive loads.

BTW if you aren't subscribed to ShootingTheBull410's YouTube channel (and TNOutdoors9), you should be. He's in the process right now of testing every popular 9mm defensive carry load from a 3" barrel, plus some crazy ones.

His first Speer Gold Dot test (standard pressure 124 grn) did NOT look so hot.




I'm excited to see how my carry load, 147 grn Federal HST standard pressure, holds up.
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Old 01-15-2014, 1:29 PM
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9mm Luger +P+ PENETRATOR Ammo
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  #8  
Old 01-15-2014, 1:32 PM
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I couldn't care less about homebrew bullet tests by Youtubers.
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Old 01-15-2014, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
Just learning to control recoil, get accurate hits on target, and taking defensive shooting classes will be waaaaaaaaaaay more important than trying to duplicate your defensive rounds with practice ammo.
^^^ THIS! Best you can do to duplicate self defense rounds in practice is to get a supply of 9mm NATO FMJ; heavier 124gr. bullets, almost as hot as +P, but lot cheaper than self defense hollow points
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Old 01-15-2014, 9:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyS View Post
I wouldn't use either. 147 grn in 9mm for self defense.

But, yes, you will definitely notice a difference in blast, volume, and recoil between standard and +P in nearly all defensive loads.

BTW if you aren't subscribed to ShootingTheBull410's YouTube channel (and TNOutdoors9), you should be. He's in the process right now of testing every popular 9mm defensive carry load from a 3" barrel, plus some crazy ones.

His first Speer Gold Dot test (standard pressure 124 grn) did NOT look so hot.




I'm excited to see how my carry load, 147 grn Federal HST standard pressure, holds up.
I dunno. 124 GD +p seems to ok in gelatin from a full size pistol and has been effective on the street. My concern is that lot to lot variation from all of the maker.

HST is just too hard to find for me though. Where are you sourcing it from?

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Old 01-15-2014, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Code7inOaktown View Post
I dunno. 124 GD +p seems to ok in gelatin from a full size pistol and has been effective on the street. My concern is that lot to lot variation from all of the maker.

HST is just too hard to find for me though. Where are you sourcing it from?
Yeah I think the Gold Dot bullet, like many hollow points, needs a certain minimum velocity to function properly, and that was just not happening from the sub-compact.



I've been seeing HST a lot in the 124 grain flavors. Haven't seen 147 for a while, unfortunately. Here are a bunch of places with 124 grain in stock, with the least expensive price per round first and more or less in increasing order from there:

http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/Feder...o-p/p9hst1.htm

http://www.venturamunitions.com/fede...st1-50-rounds/

http://www.bulkammo.com/bulk-9mm-amm...stfedprem-1000

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...s-p9hst1s.html

http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/c...&category=H9M0

http://www.laxammo.com/ammunition/9m...p9hst1s/88-639

http://www.selwayarmory.com/federalp...t-boxof20.aspx

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...dir=18|829|837

http://shop.tropgun.com/servlet/-str...P9HST1S/Detail

http://www.rareammo.com/federal-prem...st-jhp-20-rnds

https://www.primaryarms.com/Federal-...-p/p9hst1s.htm

http://www.gandermountain.com/modper...linkconn&lct=s
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Old 01-16-2014, 5:33 AM
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147gr hst standard pressure in all our carry guns except the pm9 may get the +p version 124gr load when the fiancee can finally get it added to her permit. I usually buy it from sgammo or ammo to go.
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Old 01-16-2014, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyS View Post
Yeah I think the Gold Dot bullet, like many hollow points, needs a certain minimum velocity to function properly, and that was just not happening from the sub-compact.
Which is exactly why they make a short barrel version. If he wasn't using that, the test was pretty silly.

And all hollow points have a velocity window they're designed to operate in.
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Old 01-16-2014, 8:06 AM
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124gr and up Ranger-T/B/PDX-1, HST or Gold Dot in standard and +P will work fine and provide the proper amount of penetration. One factor people forget is to test whatever they intend to carry in their gun to make sure it cycles correctly and groups decently which I like to test at 25 yards. Currently all my mags are filled with either +P 124gr HST or Ranger-T or 147gr HST.
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  #15  
Old 01-16-2014, 8:22 AM
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147gr in the p226, and 124+p in the glock since its shorter. All Win Ranger. Just my personal choice.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drifting View Post
Anyone tried Speer Gold Dot 124gr 9mm vs 124gr +P 9mm? Is there a noticeable difference in controlability, recoil, and follow-up shot accuracy? My practice rounds are 124 gr FMJ standard loads so I want my defensive round to be roughly equivalent, especially, under stressed situation, i can be more confident with where the bullets hit.
The standard pressure 124gr rounds feel similar to 115gr IMO, which is very controllable. To me the 124gr +P rounds feel similar to 110gr .357 magnum rounds, which have more blast and muzzle flip.

For 9mm, my preferred SD load is standard pressure 147gr JHP.
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Old 01-16-2014, 6:29 PM
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For SD?

Low pressure/heavy/subsonic HST.




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Old 01-16-2014, 10:18 PM
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My vote, +P.

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Old 01-16-2014, 10:32 PM
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9mm +p - what recoil?
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Old 01-17-2014, 4:22 PM
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is it good idea using 147grain FMJ practice in range, and using 147 JHP as SD?
because I saw the price of 147gain FMJ is about same as 124gr at freedom munitions

also the good thing is that 147gr is standard load will not wear off guns faster like 124gr +p.

Last edited by drifting; 01-17-2014 at 4:25 PM..
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Old 01-17-2014, 4:30 PM
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Most people notice more felt recoil or at least more push from a heavier bullet. So, yeah, it would probably mimic your 147 SD ammo better. Also, point of impact and such may be closer due to the slower velocity of 147 vs lighter choices. Always a good idea to practice with something that approximates your carry load (hence loads like Speer Lawman being created).

I used to just buy 115 grain, despite carrying 147, since it was the least expensive and softest shooting and I used it for my casual (i.e. not going for points rankings) IPSC competition stuff and for all plinking/target shooting. I've basically switched to 147 now since I shoot suppressed so much, and my cache of 115 grain from Freedom Munitions is being phased out for 147 grain. No issues w/ their 147 grain so far. In these power levels I don't really feel much of a difference between 115 and 147 and shoot them both almost equally, but the difference is there and a buddy of mine who is really recoil sensitive has a better time with the 115. If he carried 147 (he doesn't carry at all, but if he did) I would most definitely force the guy to train and plink with it also.
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Old 01-17-2014, 4:53 PM
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If you are interested in getting the very best HD 9mm ammunition, take a look at Winchester Ranger T Series RA9TAS 127 Gr +P+. This is the Winchester Law Enforcement load. While it is marked law enforcement only, that is Winchester policy only, with no legal restrictions.

Finding it may be a bit of a chore given the current ammunition issues, but it can be found on the internet from the major ammunition suppliers.

Last edited by 003; 01-17-2014 at 5:00 PM..
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Old 01-17-2014, 6:26 PM
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Is it okay to use +p rounds in a polymer framed gun, say a Ruger SR9?
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Old 01-17-2014, 6:34 PM
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Low pressure/heavy/subsonic HST.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRqrJRq4T0




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Old 01-17-2014, 7:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
Just learning to control recoil, get accurate hits on target, and taking defensive shooting classes will be waaaaaaaaaaay more important than trying to duplicate your defensive rounds with practice ammo.
Yeah, I think this is true for most. +P has very noticeable difference in pop. I cannot afford to practice with +P anymore. And I haven't noticed that much difference getting on target since I've been practicing. It might make a difference for someone who is competition shooting or is learning.
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Old 01-17-2014, 7:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlrs_27m View Post
Is it okay to use +p rounds in a polymer framed gun, say a Ruger SR9?
Some polymer guns handle it fine. Some do not, I think you should check around on the Ruger. I'm using a Walther PPQ right now which is OK with +P. I think some of the manufacturers say something like "it will wear out your gun faster or something". Check to see if your SR9 is ok, Ruger makes a pretty good gun.
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Old 01-17-2014, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
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.....I've basically switched to 147 now since I shoot suppressed so much.
Oh, just rub it in why don't you.
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Old 01-17-2014, 8:25 PM
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124 grn JHP @ 1350 FPS is nipping at 357 magnum velocities. You'll definitely feel the increase in pressure/velocities as in felt recoil and muzzle flip. My home brewed 9mm loads can do 1400+ FPS with 115 JHP out of my 5" 1911.
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Old 01-18-2014, 2:20 PM
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First HST test:




Still waiting to see my choice, the 147 grn standard pressure HST, tested through this gun. I do have a fair amount of 124 +P handy though. Federal made a good bullet here.
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Old 01-18-2014, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyS View Post
First HST test:


Still waiting to see my choice, the 147 grn standard pressure HST, tested through this gun. I do have a fair amount of 124 +P handy though. Federal made a good bullet here.
That was very nice. I usually keep 147gr standard pressure Winchester Ranger Bonded in my G19, but I do have several boxes of the 124gr standard pressure HST.
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