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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #121  
Old 01-10-2014, 8:39 AM
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My cousin just spent $640 on a complete Upper RRA R3 which guarantees 3/4 MOA.

This is an example
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  #122  
Old 01-10-2014, 8:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missiontrails View Post
The average person when shooting from a standing/unsupported position can't even shoot that anyway at 100 yards. Just watch people at the outdoor ranges. They don't become semi-accurate until they sit down at the able and use their optics.
I'm aware of this, however if PTAC is suggesting that you can expect 4-6MOA, this is likely meant from a bench, not from unsupported field positions.
The precision from those positions will be much less (or...much more?) than 4-6MOA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
But 2-3 moa is still not precision.
It's twice as precise. It's all relative.

Last edited by Standard; 01-10-2014 at 9:06 AM..
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  #123  
Old 01-10-2014, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Standard View Post
I'm aware of this, however if PTAC is suggesting that you can expect 4-6MOA, this is likely meant from a bench, not from unsupported field positions.
The precision from those positions will be much less than 4-6MOA.



It's twice as precise. It's all relative.
No doubt......they're referring to mechanical accuracy.
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  #124  
Old 01-10-2014, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Exactly. Most people expect above average performance for below average prices.
Or from below average shooters!
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  #125  
Old 01-10-2014, 8:55 AM
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Originally Posted by missiontrails View Post
No doubt......they're referring to mechanical accuracy.
It's put the gun in an immovable mount and shoot it. Other than the ammo, it takes almost all of the variables out of it.

Besides, it's Mil-spec, that's always been the Good Shooting mark of approval; had to be at least that to have any value at all...
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  #126  
Old 01-10-2014, 9:27 AM
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Accuracy ratings must be done bolted down, otherwise shooter variability is involved. It would be nice to standardize fixed position shooting accuracy, but that will probably not happen. It's tough enough just to get a weight measurement from most suppliers.
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  #127  
Old 01-10-2014, 9:29 AM
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pay for a PSA upper expect a noveske upper....

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  #128  
Old 01-10-2014, 9:45 AM
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big deal

i bought on on BF and I am totally happy with it. Still shoots better than I do and I can hit center mass. If i competed or maybe if someone held a gun to my head and demanded I hit a penny at 100y, maybe I'd be concerned. But at 25y if I can hit the 12x12 paper I'm happy.

Plus later on down the line, if i really wanted to, I could upgrade to a nicer 14.5" barrel.

If i wanted a high quality set up, I would have gotten one. Instead I got the PTAC for 399 w/ BCG and it is doing exactly what it's supposed to do - send bullets downrange.
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  #129  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:48 AM
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It has now changed simply to, "Upper is expected to group within the mil-spec."
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  #130  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tal3nt View Post
It has now changed simply to, "Upper is expected to group within the mil-spec."
lol, so they probably added it due to dumb customers with unrealistic expectations in the first place, then probably got more complaints after people couldn't handle the harsh smackdown of realistic expectations.
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  #131  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rman View Post
big deal

i bought on on BF and I am totally happy with it. Still shoots better than I do and I can hit center mass. If i competed or maybe if someone held a gun to my head and demanded I hit a penny at 100y, maybe I'd be concerned. But at 25y if I can hit the 12x12 paper I'm happy.

Plus later on down the line, if i really wanted to, I could upgrade to a nicer 14.5" barrel.

If i wanted a high quality set up, I would have gotten one. Instead I got the PTAC for 399 w/ BCG and it is doing exactly what it's supposed to do - send bullets downrange.
The issue is that some people don't get that and expect Noveske quality out of it because they heard that some PSA rifles used FN barrels
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  #132  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
lol, so they probably added it due to dumb customers with unrealistic expectations in the first place, then probably got more complaints after people couldn't handle the harsh smackdown of realistic expectations.
This. So much. This.
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  #133  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:16 AM
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Yes I'm sure the backlash has been tremendous from people not getting the grouping they expected. I almost sent mine back when I saw it wasn't gold plated. But then again I'm also a part time sarcastaball coach
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  #134  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infringed711 View Post
The issue is that some people don't get that and expect Noveske quality out of it because they heard that some PSA rifles used FN barrels
They also don't realize whatever best groups posted on the internet are done by good marksman using top quality ammo. I'm also willing to bet that some people only post their best groups which could also be their luckiest group. I mean who really knows if that sub MOA group came from 1 out of 20 tries or 20 out of 20 tries.
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  #135  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:26 AM
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Dude, when you're torquing flash hiders, you DONT clamp the receiver, you use a barrel clamp! LOL... Wow. If clamping the receiver you are smashing the STEEL barrel extension bead against the ALLOY receiver....... what do you think is gonna happen. Wonder how many people have F'ed up their uppers doing this....

Last edited by missiontrails; 01-10-2014 at 11:33 AM..
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  #136  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:39 AM
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I use a bench vise and and old leather belt around the barrel
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  #137  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
I use a bench vise and and old leather belt around the barrel
Yep, anything that will grip the barrel without scaring it up. Guy above is complaining about a brand when in fact it was his inexperience that caused issue #2.
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  #138  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missiontrails View Post
Dude, when you're torquing flash hiders, you DONT clamp the receiver, you use a barrel clamp! LOL... Wow. If clamping the receiver you are smashing the STEEL barrel extension bead against the ALLOY receiver....... what do you think is gonna happen. Wonder how many people have F'ed up their uppers doing this....
PFFT, BCM uppers would work just fine after doing that.
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  #139  
Old 01-10-2014, 1:13 PM
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Originally Posted by missiontrails View Post
The average person when shooting from a standing/unsupported position can't even shoot that anyway at 100 yards. Just watch people at the outdoor ranges. They don't become semi-accurate until they sit down at the able and use their optics.
most people can't even hit steel consistently @ 200 standing/unsupported.
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  #140  
Old 01-10-2014, 1:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JackRydden224 View Post
They also don't realize whatever best groups posted on the internet are done by good marksman using top quality ammo. I'm also willing to bet that some people only post their best groups which could also be their luckiest group. I mean who really knows if that sub MOA group came from 1 out of 20 tries or 20 out of 20 tries.
Well of course! What, you're going to post those targets that look like you were blasting them with buckshot at 20 yards? Heck no! Sometimes you've just gotta post that 25 yard group and call it 100.
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  #141  
Old 01-10-2014, 2:32 PM
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Heck no! Sometimes you've just gotta post that 25 yard group and call it 100.
I have no idea why there are powder burns on my hundred yard target...
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  #142  
Old 01-10-2014, 4:47 PM
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The free shipping finally got me. Damn you PSA
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  #143  
Old 01-10-2014, 6:11 PM
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I'm wondering if the PTAC uppers will feed steel case ammo without problems. My PSA upper does.
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  #144  
Old 01-10-2014, 6:51 PM
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my PTAC upper w/o m4 feedramps only jammed 1 round out of 100 (out of spec reloads)

that same ammo jams about 1 in 10 in both my colt sporter and ar pistol upper


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  #145  
Old 01-10-2014, 11:54 PM
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P-Tac does suck. Hence the price. Stick with their FN barrels....
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  #146  
Old 01-11-2014, 7:40 AM
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I can't believe anyone has the nerve to complain about moa on an upper that costs less than many mall-ninja triggers.

these are the uppers you put on your 80% lowers & bury behind the drywall, along with a few pmags in case shtf. if you want to shoot thru the hole in a washer at 500 yards, an ar15 is the wrong tool anyway.
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  #147  
Old 01-11-2014, 6:09 PM
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Wow, 3 pages of supposition, speculation, egos, and brand whores! Anybody actually READ the reviews posted on PSA by people who bought PTAC uppers?

I found 2 that contained accuracy info in less than a minute.

One guy said he was getting 2-inch groups at 50 yards using a red dot with a 4 MOA dot. (So he was shooting 4 MOA with a 4 MOA red dot, not too shabby imo.)

Another guy (with a melonite-barreled PTAC) said he was getting .75-inch groups using match-grade ammo.

Yeah, no way of knowing if they were full of it, but reports from ACTUAL USERS means a lot more to me than 3 pages of, well...

More time spent on the website would probably yield more REAL data.
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  #148  
Old 01-11-2014, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by xrMike View Post
Wow, 3 pages of supposition, speculation, egos, and brand whores! Anybody actually READ the reviews posted on PSA by people who bought PTAC uppers?

I found 2 that contained accuracy info in less than a minute.

One guy said he was getting 2-inch groups at 50 yards using a red dot with a 4 MOA dot. (So he was shooting 4 MOA with a 4 MOA red dot, not too shabby imo.)

Another guy (with a melonite-barreled PTAC) said he was getting .75-inch groups using match-grade ammo.

Yeah, no way of knowing if they were full of it, but reports from ACTUAL USERS means a lot more to me than 3 pages of, well...

More time spent on the website would probably yield more REAL data.
You're complaining about 3 pages of posts, but apparently you didn't bother to read any of it. If you had, you probably would have noticed that the topic of discussion is other people with unrealistic expectations that aren't even necessarily posted solely on calguns.

By the way, I hate to break it to you, but individual "reviews" posted on retailer websites, even by people who have purchased the product, amount to **** all on their own. Uppers, scopes, cellphones, deodorant, it doesn't matter. Someone with zero understanding of the product may rate it to be the best ever, or worst ever simply because their frame of reference is so small(typically the product they're reviewing, and maybe 1 or 2 similar items) they don't know any better. The review claiming .75moa(not sure why you typed inches since that's not what the reviewer said) with match grade ammo is a perfect example of this. Why? Other than us not knowing if he actually understands what moa is(and plenty of people even on calguns seem to fail at this), we don't know what he means by "match grade ammo" either. Then as typical with most claims on the internet about rifles shooting sub moa... how many times did it do it? Did he shoot 10 groups of 5 shots each and picked out the one .75moa group while ignoring the 9 groups that were bigger?

Plenty of other reviews also proclaim how well they perform after 60, 100, 200 rounds. Really? Since when is 2 magazines(60 rounds) some benchmark for determining whether or not a product is reliable?

In my opinion, those reviews are pretty worthless other than to determine that the product at least works.
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  #149  
Old 01-11-2014, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownShooter View Post
these are the uppers you put on your 80% lowers & bury behind the drywall, along with a few pmags in case shtf. if you want to shoot thru the hole in a washer at 500 yards, an ar15 is the wrong tool anyway.
Idk if a ptac upper is something id stash away to use to protect my life with.
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  #150  
Old 01-13-2014, 4:44 PM
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PEOPLE JUST DONT GET IT.....the standard ar15 is a battle rifle its meant to hit a human sized target out to 5-600yards people just don't get it it's 2 PIECES AN UPPER AND A LOWER that are held together with PINS IF YOU WANTED AN ACCURATE RIFLE get a bolt action that's a stronger stiffer And more accurate platform

DONT BE A CHEAPSKATE AND PAY THE EXTRA MONEY IF YOU WANTED MORE ACCURACY

Depending on the manufacture the upper and lower are allowed l a TOLERANCE this tolerance is essentially "slop" just like the ak platform
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  #151  
Old 01-13-2014, 5:17 PM
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The threshold for necroposting a thread of this caliber is 1 day you've crossed the threshold buddy
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  #152  
Old 01-13-2014, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mdib870 View Post
PEOPLE JUST DONT GET IT.....the standard ar15 is a battle rifle its meant to hit a human sized target out to 5-600yards people just don't get it it's 2 PIECES AN UPPER AND A LOWER that are held together with PINS IF YOU WANTED AN ACCURATE RIFLE get a bolt action that's a stronger stiffer And more accurate platform

DONT BE A CHEAPSKATE AND PAY THE EXTRA MONEY IF YOU WANTED MORE ACCURACY

Depending on the manufacture the upper and lower are allowed l a TOLERANCE this tolerance is essentially "slop" just like the ak platform
Dude, calm down. We know this.
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  #153  
Old 01-23-2014, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
I haven't touched the PTAC stuff from them....

All of the FN barrels I've purchased from them have been spot on though.

I'm getting the CHF FN 14.7" barrel from them soon....(next month lol) but I wonder what kind of groups. It's a middy with a medium profile, CHF 4150 chrome lined 1:7

hmm
Once you get it fixed, let us know how it shoots.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=883366
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  #154  
Old 01-23-2014, 1:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcGuff View Post
pay for a PSA upper expect a noveske upper....

You mean ptac. Big difference between the 2. The psa 20 inch chf I have is much more accurate than that thats for sure. Id love to see a highly skilled shooter behind it but even I as a beginner can do better than 4 to 6 moa.
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  #155  
Old 01-23-2014, 8:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Once you get it fixed, let us know how it shoots.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=883366
Haha, i'm eating my own words.

Well, we shall see.

I think QC is definitely a step they cut corners on. I suppose thats the price you pay for getting things cheap. I expect after going through the hassle of returns, I'll be satisfied with the results, though.

In my defense, most of the PSA stuff i've ordered has been great.

I suppose with all the reported issues it was about time for me to get a lemon.

In the meantime i'll be using my spare BCG in the new uppe, since that seems to work fine so far.

The BCG they shipped is likely going back.

Last edited by Mossy Man; 01-23-2014 at 8:17 AM..
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  #156  
Old 01-23-2014, 8:39 AM
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Originally Posted by valley82 View Post
Wow spray and pray, and you get to wait for their ultra slow shipping too!
PSA, pay less - get less.
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  #157  
Old 01-23-2014, 8:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
Haha, i'm eating my own words.

Well, we shall see.
And I don't mean to pick on you because you are about as level headed a PSA owner I have ever seen. Given the sheer volume of uppers they sell I am sure issues are bound to come up once in a while, it just so happened it was you this time and that made it easy to point you out - as a participant of this thread.
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  #158  
Old 01-23-2014, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
And I don't mean to pick on you because you are about as level headed a PSA owner I have ever seen. Given the sheer volume of uppers they sell I am sure issues are bound to come up once in a while, it just so happened it was you this time and that made it easy to point you out - as a participant of this thread.
It's really ok.

I'm actually laughing at this because its stuff like this that makes forums so fun.
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  #159  
Old 01-23-2014, 10:44 AM
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Hate to break it to you guys but,,,

I just popped the cherry on a 16" ptac 1:9 upper with regular 'old phosphate finish, no chrome or melonite. Free floated with an ss12g2.

100 rounds, no special break in.

Equipped with a PA 1-4x, I was getting less than 2 MOA benched. Thats less than 2" @ 100yd. Not one flyer.

My findings:
maybe the accuracy will suffer eventually (sooner than a CMV CL BFH CHF etc..), but out of the box it is just as accurate as my heavy barrel 1:7 BCM BFH CL middy

It definitely ain't no Ferrari, but it IS something like a Civic or a Camry

Last edited by tal3nt; 01-23-2014 at 10:57 AM..
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  #160  
Old 01-23-2014, 10:58 AM
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Yeah but does it come with a nice gas key????
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