Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Competition, Action Shooting And Training.
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-02-2014, 9:14 PM
kdruff2's Avatar
kdruff2 kdruff2 is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,232
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default Recommend me a race gun barrel

Hi Guys,

If you were assembling an upper for 3Gun, what would your ideal barrel profile look like? There are two parameters to work with: Price range should be somewhere between $225 - $315 and the upper should work w/ a Colt lower (stock h buffer/spring from a Colt LE6920 16" Carbine gas system)

Length: 16, 18, 20
Gas system: Mid or Rifle
Material: SS410, SS416, Chrome-line, etc.
Twist: 1:7, 8 or 9
Other consideration? ex. Polygonal Rifling

Trying to locate the best barrel (good quality, durable, affordability) possible given the budget. As many of you are aware, there are a lot of options and manufacturers out there and my head is starting to spin. Having said that, I've identified a few barrels that I like that really spans the range of my budget. Part of me wonders whether a $300 barrel (BCM SS410 16" mid length) is that much or any better than a $230 (Ice Arms 18 inch 416R SS Nitrided Medium Contour - sourced from Green Mountain) barrel.

Welcome any thoughts or input folks might have.

Last edited by kdruff2; 02-05-2014 at 6:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-03-2014, 5:18 AM
3GunFunShooter 3GunFunShooter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NorCal Foothills
Posts: 2,227
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

JP, 18", Rifle gas system, Stainless Steel
1/8 Twist.
(I would stay away from a 16", have seen shooters not make minor power factor with factory 55 gr ammo.
Not an issue with 18".)
__________________
If you can't shoot good, at least look good shooting

Last edited by 3GunFunShooter; 01-03-2014 at 5:21 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-03-2014, 6:00 AM
HighLander51 HighLander51 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,144
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

What he said, 20" is ok also.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-03-2014, 7:50 AM
USPSA GM USPSA GM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 346
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

16" (18" will work, 20" is too long)
Stainless Steel
Medium or light contour
heavily fluted to get the weight down as low as possible
1/8 twist
mid length gas system
5.56 chamber
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:14 AM
HighLander51 HighLander51 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,144
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by USPSA GM View Post
16" (18" will work, 20" is too long)
20" works for me because I'm taller than you........ gives the right aspect ratio. I actually run my 18's more often than the 20
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:27 AM
SuperSet SuperSet is online now
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OC/DC
Posts: 8,766
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Hey man,
If there's 1 part of the AR where you don't want to scrimp, it's the barrel. It really is the heart of the gun, especially when you're tossing lead at something small at 400 yards. I don't think there's that much difference between the stainless barrels, other than how long they last. I had a WOA stainless go out at 6-7K rounds but was very accurate until it went to a basketball-sized group.
I now shoot Noveske barrels since they last so long and am a big fan of the 18" lightweight (32 oz) since it is noticeably lighter than the medium contour (39 oz). The cost exceeds your listed budget though.
If I didn't shoot the Noveske, I'd probably do the BCM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-03-2014, 2:23 PM
esskay esskay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,301
iTrader: 64 / 100%
Default

If you don't mind more of a medium profile, the Nordic 18" rifle gas barrels are very nice and relatively affordable. These are spec'ed with a smaller gas port so they're very soft shooting even without an adjustable gas block.

http://www.carbonarms.us/AR-15-Upper...AR-barrel.html
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-03-2014, 2:24 PM
USPSA GM USPSA GM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 346
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Barrel length is not about how tall you are. It's about the weight of the rifle and where the balance point is. A shorter, lighter barrel will give you the ability to transistion from target to target faster with less over swing. A guy named Taran Bulter first demonstrated the advantages of the short light gun, and guys like Horner are continuing to prove it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-03-2014, 2:57 PM
HighLander51 HighLander51 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,144
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by USPSA GM View Post
Barrel length is not about how tall you are. It's about the weight of the rifle and where the balance point is. A shorter, lighter barrel will give you the ability to transistion from target to target faster with less over swing. A guy named Taran Bulter first demonstrated the advantages of the short light gun, and guys like Horner are continuing to prove it.
Yea, I know Taran and Daniel, but I still like my 20" for long range, and don't really think it hurts close transitions for me. And it's still the long range hits that make the time on a rifle stage.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-04-2014, 6:52 AM
USPSA GM USPSA GM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 346
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

A 4" longer barrel doesn't make the rifle more accurate, it just makes it heavier (unless you are using iron sight then then additional sight length is helpful). The extra weight helps compensate for technique on longer targets but hurts on everything else.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-04-2014, 6:58 AM
Bob Hostetter Bob Hostetter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: So California
Posts: 1,150
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Shorter and lighter is generally better on a rifle designed to be used in 3 Gun competitions.
__________________
Bob Hostetter
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-04-2014, 8:51 AM
Yar's Avatar
Yar Yar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ventura CA
Posts: 648
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

The longer barrels do produce more velocity. I like to shoot a 75gr at 2800 fps which is easy in a 18" but pretty difficult in a 16". If you shoot 3 gun at pala or piru that extra juice can help.

If your local 3 gun match only goes out to 200 yards than a 14.5 makes a lot of sense.
__________________
madtrigger.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-04-2014, 9:15 AM
D.carden's Avatar
D.carden D.carden is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Nor Cal, Contra Costa County
Posts: 187
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Accuracy is the primary concern.... I run a 20" WOA and haven't seen a hoser stage that slowed me down... But, like Yar said, that little bit more velocity can help out at distance with a flatter trajectory..... What few seconds or tenths I give up on a hoser stage will be nothing compared to the minute(s) you can chew up if the barrel can't shoot at longer distances.... We've all seen that scenario..!!! If you tank one long range stage, your match is over.... !!! Nothing worse than timing out with targets not engaged...... Choose wisely......!!!

Last edited by D.carden; 01-04-2014 at 9:53 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-04-2014, 1:03 PM
kdruff2's Avatar
kdruff2 kdruff2 is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,232
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Appreciate everyone's reply thus far. My initial preference was to keep it "short and light" as some have suggested, but the point about wiffing on a long range stage and having your match be over also resonates with me (being relatively new to 3Gun and rifles).

I also ran into this article and about 16" barrels w/ carbine vs. mid-lenght gas systems (FYI).

http://www.03designgroup.com/technot...gth-gas-system

BCM is currently OOS on its 18" SS410 rifle length barrels, but they do have the comparable 16" SS410 middy in currently. I'll give them a call on Monday and see if they have an idea of when the 18s might be coming in.

Additional questions:
1. Do folks see any issues (other than aesthetics) w/ having the gas block being exposed? I've got an 11" alpha rail and am pretty sure it won't cover a rifle length gas system.

2. As mentioned before, if I go down the path of a 18" rifle gas system, would I need to fine-tune/swap out my buffer/spring? I have a stock Colt lower (H buffer and spring) that is currently paired with a 16" carbine gas upper.

Last edited by kdruff2; 01-04-2014 at 1:10 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-04-2014, 1:21 PM
SuperSet SuperSet is online now
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OC/DC
Posts: 8,766
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

For #1, leaving it exposed isn't an issue as long as you don't end up grabbing it by mistake. Hot! I have long arms and prefer the 13" Troys/VTAC Alphas myself.
For #2, a lot depends on the tube. Are you using carbine 6 or 7 position buffer tube? If yes, you have to use a carbine buffer and spring. That H buffer will probably work so test it out with the ammo that you'll be using for proper cycling (i.e. no short stroking). I run a rifle length buffer tube with JP light buffer and CS spring, just because I run adjustable gas.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-04-2014, 6:37 PM
HighLander51 HighLander51 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,144
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

My 20" Colt barrel is the same weight as my 18" DPMS with a Miculek compensator.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-04-2014, 9:03 PM
IPSICK's Avatar
IPSICK IPSICK is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: East Bay Area
Posts: 4,186
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

18" Nordic. Look up alaskapopo's review on Enos forum. If you feel spendy, hard to beat 18" JP lighweight. Probably the lightest and most accurate barrel available.
__________________
"When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff

"Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm X
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-04-2014, 9:33 PM
CRTguns's Avatar
CRTguns CRTguns is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St George, UT
Posts: 2,599
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.carden View Post
Accuracy is the primary concern.... I run a 20" WOA and haven't seen a hoser stage that slowed me down... But, like Yar said, that little bit more velocity can help out at distance with a flatter trajectory..... What few seconds or tenths I give up on a hoser stage will be nothing compared to the minute(s) you can chew up if the barrel can't shoot at longer distances.... We've all seen that scenario..!!! If you tank one long range stage, your match is over.... !!! Nothing worse than timing out with targets not engaged...... Choose wisely......!!!
ya. that. What Carden said.

I burned out a premium match grade barrel in a little over 2 years between matches and practices in between. Been vary, very, very, happy with my BARGAIN chrome lined service contour from Green Mountain ($160), that I cut to 18.5". It makes a little under 2 moa (it's thin and cheap) but the group does not wander and the zero never shifts from day-to day. Hardest target I ve had to hit was a popper at 400+ at five dogs- those poppers are 10 inches wide, so 2 moa works.

Match grade is a nice idea, but the amount of heat one can generate during one hoser kind of stage makes a match grade pipe a waste.

in my opinion.

Last edited by CRTguns; 01-04-2014 at 9:38 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-05-2014, 4:19 PM
Sofatactical Sofatactical is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 592
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

SO according to this thread a 16, 18 or 20" barrel in light , med, or heavy profile anywhere from $160 - $400 should do the trick.
__________________
Sofa King Tactical!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-05-2014, 5:41 PM
kdruff2's Avatar
kdruff2 kdruff2 is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,232
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

It's been confirmed.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-05-2014, 5:45 PM
SuperSet SuperSet is online now
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OC/DC
Posts: 8,766
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofatactical View Post
SO according to this thread a 16, 18 or 20" barrel in light , med, or heavy profile anywhere from $160 - $400 should do the trick.
You got it!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-01-2014, 1:39 PM
kdruff2's Avatar
kdruff2 kdruff2 is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,232
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Update for folks. After doing research (including this thread), it seems like the response and reading could be graphed in terms of a bell shaped curve with most folks favoring (or having no strong objections to) an 18" barrel. There's strong conviction from the 16" and 20" camp, but all would agree you can't go wrong w/ an 18" barrel for 3Gun. An 18" barrel also happens to be the shortest barrel that you can run a rifle gas system on.

I've been going back and forth on SS or hand lapped CMCL (Criterion). Well, earlier this week, Rainer's 18" Ultra Match SS Intermediate finally came in. I would have preferred the Match ($100 less), but good barrels are mostly OOS these days. Not the originally planned rifle gas, but I'm sure the performance offered will far exceed my current capabilities.

Then last night happened. The Ultra match SPR (18" Rifle Gas) came in (it's now OOS). I jumped on it so now have two barrels headed my way. Rainer's website states they have a 90 day no question ask guarantee/return policy so I'll figure out which I should keep.

Soooo, 18" INT or Rifle?

Last edited by kdruff2; 02-02-2014 at 7:37 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-02-2014, 7:23 AM
JamesY's Avatar
JamesY JamesY is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,507
iTrader: 82 / 100%
Default

Rifle with a good compensator.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-02-2014, 7:34 PM
Bobby Hated's Avatar
Bobby Hated Bobby Hated is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,535
iTrader: 161 / 100%
Default

Rifle length no exceptions and you do need an adjustable gas block to tune your ammo to the rifle

I agree with everything USPSA GM said except Taran still beats Daniel Horner at twice his age and 1 1/2 times his weight.
__________________
USPSA IPSC X3 NRG PRG LDF SWPL

Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-04-2014, 10:41 PM
GeoffLinder's Avatar
GeoffLinder GeoffLinder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pacifica, CA
Posts: 2,425
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The plain truth here is that with a good muzzle brake and trigger you can put most anything barrel-wise with the needed other features into the hands of a GM shooter and there is not going to be a very measurable performance change on courses for them, or for anyone else either. You can rock a LD stage with a 16" and you can rock a hoser stage with a 20" as long as the rifle has the other features needed for competition. Barrel profile is not one of the more important features compared to some other things.

That said, I like medium profile barrels so I do have just a little weight out there, not too much, not too little. I also like 20" barrels and do not feel the barrel length makes a difference in hoser stuff especially compared to the difference muzzle brakes, triggers and gas system choice make in fast stuff. There is a very good reason many top shooters try to stick with a full length gas system if possible
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-05-2014, 6:34 PM
kdruff2's Avatar
kdruff2 kdruff2 is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,232
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Thank you for your input Geoff. The title was a bit misleading so I removed the "profile" part. What I was getting at was what may be the best, or within current standards, length and gas system for a 3Gun rifle.

I believe I found my answer in a 18" rifle gas system for me (emphasis on personal preference and based on where I shoot (i.e., stage designs)).

The barrel was the last of the three vital components that I was looking for. I already upgraded my trigger (Gieselle SSA-E) and have identified either a Miculek, Seekins or FSC556 comp.

If you want to count as a fourth consideration, I also picked up a free float guard.

My current stock upper lacks all of the above so hoping to see a noticeable improvement in recoil, follow-up shot and 400 yd target shooting. Definitely will need to grow into the new upper and definitely will have fun in the process.

Both the barrels have arrived so I'll post pics once I get a chance to assemble!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:51 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.