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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-07-2008, 11:09 PM
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Default Max handgun barrel length?

Just wondered.. is there one? What is it? It doesn't seem to have been posted before, and I can't find it anywhere.

TIA!
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:37 PM
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Uhm...whatever you can manage?
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by yellowfin2 View Post
Uhm...whatever you can manage?
Considering I've got flats on the way, and a Romy G parts kit sitting here... That would be a pistol (with a fixed mag and no butt stock) with a 16" and change barrel. Not entirely sure that's legal (AW laws aside - got those handled), and I just want to make sure it is...
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Old 02-08-2008, 6:34 AM
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never heard of a max length for a pistol barrel before. just minimum length.
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Old 02-08-2008, 7:09 AM
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Default Longest barrel commercial revolver

that I found is the Taurus Model 66 (12 inches)

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_han...arrel_by_foot/

As yellowfin2 mentioned, handling longer may be a problem....
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Old 02-08-2008, 8:00 AM
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Don't forget the single-action Uberti Buntline! 18" of unwieldy Lee Van Cleef badness.

--Neill

http://www.uberti.com/firearms/Buntline.tpl

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Old 02-08-2008, 12:55 PM
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On a new construction firearm, if the overall length is greater than 26 inches and the barrel length is greater than 16 inches (and the barrel is rifled) it is no longer considerd a pistol but a title 1 firearm.

CA does not consider it to be a rifle, pistol or shotgun and the feds do not consider it to be a pistol.
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Old 02-08-2008, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
On a new construction firearm, if the overall length is greater than 26 inches and the barrel length is greater than 16 inches (and the barrel is rifled) it is no longer considerd a pistol but a title 1 firearm.

CA does not consider it to be a rifle, pistol or shotgun and the feds do not consider it to be a pistol.
That's close to what I'm after, but without a stock on it, the OAL is going to be under 26". I'm pretty sure it'll wind up closer to 22-24". Barrel length will be just over 16" (if I build it this way.) I guess I should have worried about OAL, too.

So if the OAL is under 26", it's a handgun, yes?

Thanks for the help!
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Old 02-08-2008, 1:18 PM
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Man. I just LOVE all this thinking outside the box going on here at CG!!!!!

I have two NDS-3's heading my way. I'm in a foggy sleepy state right now, but why again can't they be labeled as "pistol" lowers at DROS?

Justin
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Old 02-08-2008, 3:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccobro View Post
Man. I just LOVE all this thinking outside the box going on here at CG!!!!!

I have two NDS-3's heading my way. I'm in a foggy sleepy state right now, but why again can't they be labeled as "pistol" lowers at DROS?

Justin
1. Because they were manufactured as "Rifle" receivers.

2. Because you can't import a bare Pistol receiver.

3. Because there aren't any NDS3 receiver Pistols on the California DOJ BOF Approved list.

4. Because they don't want you to have one.

If you want an AK Pistol, you're going to have to do the work and build it from a flat and follow all the laws.
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Old 02-08-2008, 3:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
On a new construction firearm, if the overall length is greater than 26 inches and the barrel length is greater than 16 inches (and the barrel is rifled) it is no longer considerd a pistol but a title 1 firearm.

CA does not consider it to be a rifle, pistol or shotgun and the feds do not consider it to be a pistol.
What are the legal consequences of this? I have more than a few 14" to 17.5" barrels that I use on a T/C Encore handgun. The Encore frame is not particularly long so I don't think a 15" or 16" bbl puts it over 26" total, but it's close.
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Old 02-08-2008, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
That's close to what I'm after, but without a stock on it, the OAL is going to be under 26". I'm pretty sure it'll wind up closer to 22-24". Barrel length will be just over 16" (if I build it this way.) I guess I should have worried about OAL, too.

So if the OAL is under 26", it's a handgun, yes?

Thanks for the help!
With a 16 inch barrel most AK variants have an overall length which is longer than 26 inches (IIRC it is 26.5 inches)

If the OAL length is under 26 inches and it has never had a stock mounted to it then yes it is a pistol.

(if it started out life with a stock attached, then it is a SBR)

If the overall length is greater than 26 inches it is a Title 1 firearm.

As far as the tC pistol goes... there was a huge legal case with regards to that, the consensus being that a pistol can be made into a rifle so long as at no point it was configured as a SBR since it was originally a pistol, it can be converted back to a pistol from rifle form legally.

However a rife can not be made into a pistol.

I don't want to confuse the issue here, but there is a school of thought which would allow for stripped receivers (with a factory letter that they were sold as stripped receivers directly to you) to be built up in any (legal) configuration but thats a debate for another day
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Old 02-08-2008, 4:19 PM
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"As far as the T/C pistol goes... there was a huge legal case with regards to that, the consensus being that a pistol can be made into a rifle so long as at no point it was configured as a SBR since it was originally a pistol, it can be converted back to a pistol from rifle form legally.

However a rife can not be made into a pistol."


Got that. I guess my question is, if an "always a handgun" frame/receiver has a greater than 16" bbl attached to it and becomes greater than 26" OAL what are the legal consequences? Is it illegal to have a handgun with an OAL greater than 26"? My 1st reaction to someone having a handgun greater than 26" OAL would be "OK, so what?"

I understand (sort of) why some people don't want SBRs or a sawed off shotguns - but what possible heightened danger can be associated with a 27" long handgun?
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Old 02-08-2008, 4:58 PM
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Got that. I guess my question is, if an "always a handgun" frame/receiver has a greater than 16" bbl attached to it and becomes greater than 26" OAL what are the legal consequences? Is it illegal to have a handgun with an OAL greater than 26"? My 1st reaction to someone having a handgun greater than 26" OAL would be "OK, so what?"

I understand (sort of) why some people don't want SBRs or a sawed off shotguns - but what possible heightened danger can be associated with a 27" long handgun?[/QUOTE]

Well other than the grey area that you would be in for transporting it (it technically still is a pistol, but it no longer is 'capable of being concealed about the person' as long as you don't treat it like a long gun and thow it in the back seat while you drive out to the boonies you will be ok.

there really is no legal reason you can't have a 27 inch long handgun,
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Old 02-08-2008, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
"As far as the T/C pistol goes... there was a huge legal case with regards to that, the consensus being that a pistol can be made into a rifle so long as at no point it was configured as a SBR since it was originally a pistol, it can be converted back to a pistol from rifle form legally.

However a rife can not be made into a pistol."


Got that. I guess my question is, if an "always a handgun" frame/receiver has a greater than 16" bbl attached to it and becomes greater than 26" OAL what are the legal consequences? Is it illegal to have a handgun with an OAL greater than 26"? My 1st reaction to someone having a handgun greater than 26" OAL would be "OK, so what?"

I understand (sort of) why some people don't want SBRs or a sawed off shotguns - but what possible heightened danger can be associated with a 27" long handgun?
I'd think that would fall into the same category as shotguns without buttstocks. Certain Mossbergs (for example) are sold with only a pistol grip on the back. Too long to be a pistol, but no buttstock means it's not a shotgun (IIRC.)

I'll have to see what OAL on an AKM pistol built with a Romy G kit will wind up being. All I've gotta do is measure to the back of the receiver of the assembled rifle (and add 1/2" or so for "fudge" factor) in my bedroom.

Also, for the TC questions, if I recall, you can convert a TC handgun into a rifle or shotgun and back again. As long as the receiver/frame started out as a handgun, it's cool.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:05 AM
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Sorry to dig up an old thread here but I think I encountered a hangup with building a Romy G into an AK pistol kit.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12001.html

Handgun is defined by the Cal DOJ as:
* shot with one hand, concealable
* Barrel must be <16"
* Barrel >16" in length OK IF the firearm is designed to be exchanged with a barrel that's <16" in length.

---
Since the AK barrel is pressed into the trunnion, it would be hard to argue that the firearm is designe to be exchanged with a barrel that's <16" in length.

Hrm. I guess a little barrel shortening is in order to make this compliant with CA law. Did I miss something?

Regards,
-g
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunn View Post
Sorry to dig up an old thread here but I think I encountered a hangup with building a Romy G into an AK pistol kit.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12001.html

Handgun is defined by the Cal DOJ as:
* shot with one hand, concealable
* Barrel must be <16"
* Barrel >16" in length OK IF the firearm is designed to be exchanged with a barrel that's <16" in length.

---
Since the AK barrel is pressed into the trunnion, it would be hard to argue that the firearm is designe to be exchanged with a barrel that's <16" in length.

Hrm. I guess a little barrel shortening is in order to make this compliant with CA law. Did I miss something?

Regards,
-g
there is no definition of 'designed to be exchanged'

if you say it is, it is.

there is no reason an AMD65 barrel/gas system can't be exchanged for the 16 inch barrel, yes it takes tools, but so do a lot of guns.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:15 AM
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I'd think that would fall into the same category as shotguns without buttstocks. Certain Mossbergs (for example) are sold with only a pistol grip on the back. Too long to be a pistol, but no buttstock means it's not a shotgun (IIRC.)
I believe the Taurus Judge is banned here in Ca because it is considered to be a shotgun, even though it hasn't got a buttstock and certainly looks like a pistol?

OTOH, this discussion is deeper than I usually bother to go into this area, so please ignore me if I'm talking from the place where the sun don't shine.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJAX22 View Post
there is no definition of 'designed to be exchanged'

if you say it is, it is.

there is no reason an AMD65 barrel/gas system can't be exchanged for the 16 inch barrel, yes it takes tools, but so do a lot of guns.
As the designer, if I stated that the GunnArms Serial #0001 was designed to be exchanged with a barrel that's <16", wouldn't I have to prove that a barrel <16" existed or better yet, was in my possession?

Of course, at that point, I would just mount the shorter barrel b/c it was already in my possession.

This becomes a tough one for me. Although I convinced myself a single shot -> semi conversion was legal, I'm not sure I'm willing to skate on the ice that "my pistol was designed to accomodate a shorter barrel -- but I don't happen to have one in my possession and they aren't exactly commonly available".

I guess if I really want an AK pistol, I need to factor in remove/replace the muzzle brake, remove/replace the FSB, and finally cutting/re-crowning the barrel.

If you guys see it differently, please chime in.

Regards,
-g

Last edited by gunn; 02-24-2009 at 11:40 AM..
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