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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 11-21-2013, 9:05 AM
Trevolution Trevolution is offline
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Default Body Armor?

I am curious to know how people feel about wearing an easily concealable body armor of some sort. No need to stop a .308, but something that would stop common handgun rounds. I've looked around a bit and have seen some possible products that may work, but just not sure about it. I know initially it may come off as paranoid, but I was thinking that the reason I got the CCW to begin with was due to desiring protection for myself and my family. I can't picture being in a close quarter engagement with no sort of protection, being a good thing. I did a search of this forum and came up with nothing, so apologies in advance for this being a repost.
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Old 11-21-2013, 9:24 AM
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Easily concealable and body armor don't go together. Unless you are planing to spend upward of $1000 for a full custom fit, like the secret service does for Obama. Even then there is very little available that is concealable for the way most of us dress daily. Most body armor worn by le is neither concealable or comfortable in hot weather.
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2013, 3:37 PM
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Going too far. On the prudence to paranoia continuum, definitely east of the Mississippi.
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  #4  
Old 11-21-2013, 4:11 PM
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Going too far.
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Old 11-21-2013, 5:29 PM
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IIRC, something north of 85% of gunshot victims survive, so unless you actually do expect to get shot by rifle toting individuals, its not only overkill it is a waste.

Do more to keep yourself out of the situation youd need a vest and to keep from getting shot if you are in a firefight.
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2013, 5:42 PM
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I have been wearing body armor in accordance with different careers since 2005. Would I wear it not at work? HELL NO! not unless bullets are flying. I wear it accordance with policy. After 8+ years of wearing it daily 10-14 hours a day my back is KILLING me.
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  #7  
Old 11-21-2013, 8:15 PM
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If you want to wear it and have the money to burn on high end stuff, go right ahead. As others have mentioned, there are numerous downsides to wearing armor all the time: additional weight/strain on body, overheating concerns, having to wearing certain clothes to further conceal it, can slow you down, cost, etc.
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  #8  
Old 11-21-2013, 8:56 PM
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On duty, Level II every day.
Off duty, nope.
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  #9  
Old 11-21-2013, 9:02 PM
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Hell to the No!

But if you want to, you go ahead. You secretly want that "I'm a detective" look don't you? Lol just kidding bro. Go right ahead.
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2013, 5:23 AM
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Thank you for your replies. I can see that it is nothing to brag about when it comes to being comfortable and I wouldn't want to wear something that would make me feel like I wanted nothing to do with it anyways. I guess until something is made that feels and breathes like a t-shirt, but can stop bullets, I'll leave it alone.
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  #11  
Old 11-22-2013, 8:08 PM
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Armor is like adding more layers - you'll always be warmer than you would be without - on hot days, you'll be HOT. It only works when you're wearing it.

Also, there some considerations - if you're not working a job where armor is considered optional (or mandatory), the wearing of it might open you up to additional scrutiny by a DA's office. They might try to make the point that you were armored up because you WANTED to make trouble.

In addition, if you're wearing armor and do something for which you get charged, you'll have the additional charge of using armor in the commission of a felony. You might survive, but you'll end up in prison for additional time.
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  #12  
Old 12-10-2013, 4:27 PM
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Personal preference, but the lighter the better. I have some pistol rated hard shooters cut plates that are really light if you or anyone is interested.
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  #13  
Old 12-10-2013, 6:03 PM
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I wear Second Chance Monarch in a DEEP COVER carrier and I forget I am wearing it. Plus nobody else sees it either! VERY comfortable and not to expensive!
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  #14  
Old 12-10-2013, 7:04 PM
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Body armor as daily wear??? Really?!?!?

Why????
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  #15  
Old 12-10-2013, 7:17 PM
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Body armor adds 10º to felt temperature.
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  #16  
Old 12-10-2013, 7:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calplinker View Post
Body armor as daily wear??? Really?!?!?

Why????
I'll refrain from name calling, but it is the pervasiveness of all things Tacticool. If it was socially acceptable, I imagine they would be sporting plate carriers and their rifle to get something from 7-11.

There is absolutely no need to wear even soft armor unless you know you are the target of someone or some group (like a gang) and there is over a 50% chance you could find yourself in a gun fight at any given situation.

There is also the potential legal issues that you are most likely going to be more strictly scrutinized in the event you are in a gunfight. That scrutiny could find you guilty and a guilty charge will have the added offense of shooting while wearing body armor. No bueno.
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  #17  
Old 12-10-2013, 7:29 PM
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Good body armour should be available for a high risk event,
those that can afford 600-3000 get it sooner or later
better sooner that option is going away soon
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  #18  
Old 12-10-2013, 8:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninask View Post
Good body armour should be available for a high risk event,
those that can afford 600-3000 get it sooner or later
better sooner that option is going away soon
Ive considered armor and a plate carrier for a SHTF scenario, but wearing it everyday like underwear is straight up retarded unless you are a high profile celebrity with stalkers or a politician/dignitary.
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  #19  
Old 12-23-2013, 12:37 AM
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if I remember correctly, if you commit a crime while wearing armor it bumps it up to a felony. correct me if im wrong. it has also been argued that committing a traffic infraction could possibly be a felony while wearing armor.
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  #20  
Old 12-23-2013, 5:49 AM
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Having body armor (of the various incarnations: lightweight, concealable, tactical, etc...) is, in my opinion a good item to have available. Not necessarily to wear on a daily basis but to have right next to your home protection piece. Is body armor an investment? No. Is body armor a hedge/insurance policy? Yes. Better to have and not need, then to need and not have.
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  #21  
Old 12-23-2013, 6:47 AM
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If you think you need body armor every day, why even go outside?
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  #22  
Old 12-23-2013, 6:54 AM
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I wore a 2 hard plated vest in Iraq due to contract from 2005-2008 and my neck is killing me now.
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  #23  
Old 12-23-2013, 7:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VendetAR View Post
If it was socially acceptable, I imagine they would be sporting plate carriers and their rifle to get something from 7-11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxbISmBcYhg
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  #24  
Old 12-23-2013, 7:55 AM
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Even if you could afford good stuff, I imagine that body armor would quickly end up gathering dust in the back of the closet. Just not practical or nessesary in the every day day non LEO/Military world.
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  #25  
Old 12-23-2013, 8:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckystrike View Post
if I remember correctly, if you commit a crime while wearing armor it bumps it up to a felony. correct me if im wrong. it has also been argued that committing a traffic infraction could possibly be a felony while wearing armor.
Uhh no. There is a sentencing enhancement for wearing body armor while being armed, and committing a violent felony. Clearly a misdemeanor or traffic infraction would not meet the criteria. 12022.2(b) CPC, not sure if that section was re-numbered.
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  #26  
Old 12-23-2013, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calplinker View Post
Body armor as daily wear??? Really?!?!?
Why????
Quote:
Originally Posted by VendetAR View Post
There is absolutely no need to wear even soft armor unless you know you are the target of someone or some group (like a gang) and there is over a 50% chance you could find yourself in a gun fight at any given situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VendetAR View Post
Ive considered armor and a plate carrier for a SHTF scenario, but wearing it everyday like underwear is straight up retarded unless you are a high profile celebrity with stalkers or a politician/dignitary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
If you think you need body armor every day, why even go outside?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorthair View Post
Just not practical or nessesary in the every day day non LEO/Military world.
To these five posters (actually four as one guy is quoted twice) I ask this question... do you carry everyday?
If you do, why? Because you believe that you never know when a situation may present itself, and you may have to use your weapon?
Okay, so why are you saying body armor is "not practical", "straight up retarded" or otherwise absolutely not needed unless you are LEO?
Do you think the other guys won't be shooting back?
Are you all capable of magically avoiding bullets?
Why would you think it's perfectly understandable to carry everyday, but scoff at the notion of body armor?
To my thinking, if you think you might need a gun, you're ignoring the facts if you also think you won't get shot at.
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  #27  
Old 12-23-2013, 9:54 AM
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I carry everyday.

I also am quite aware that my chances of surviving a gunshot wound is over 4 times more likely than not. Hell, you can drive to the store in an MRAP too, I'll say its just as retarded.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:06 AM
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US Palm really fits in nicely with those folks who want a cost effective soft armor.

One aspect that many overlook is a simple GSW kit: Paul Howe's rig is simple yet effective: Tourniquet, roll Kerlix, roll CoFlex and one pack Z-fold Combat Gauze, is small enough to fit in a zip lock inside a BDU pocket...Paul's philosophy is: If you don't bring it, you won't have it when you need it.
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  #29  
Old 12-23-2013, 3:20 PM
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How much armor would you wear? just thoracic?

Won't stop head shots. Or femoral artery shots. or brachial artery shots.

Pretty soon, you'll look like a bomb squad blast suit.




Your best armor is between your ears. Use it to protect yourself.

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Last edited by Dvrjon; 01-21-2014 at 11:19 AM..
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  #30  
Old 12-23-2013, 3:47 PM
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***

Last edited by Oliver_Charles; 12-23-2013 at 8:35 PM..
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Old 12-23-2013, 6:36 PM
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I would wear body armor IF the research and develoment teams would make it more suitable for civilian use...especially for the summer months..I believe that lack of civilian demand/interest has kept this lightweight armor technology from evolving. But, if people spoke out wanting this, the companies would make more desirable products at a reasonable price. macthefinger I agree with your comment 100%.

Last edited by stag6.8; 12-23-2013 at 6:44 PM..
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Old 12-23-2013, 7:07 PM
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Maybe I am young and free from injuries, but a level III AR500 concealable steel armor is about same weight as my weighted vest for physical training. I don't find it diffcult to wear in daily routine other than very hot summer days. And they cost about $200.

I also carry a pocket trauma kit any time outside the house. I think it's more important than CCW or body armor.

Last edited by Lugiahua; 12-23-2013 at 7:17 PM..
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  #33  
Old 12-23-2013, 7:09 PM
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Default Body Armor?

If you train with these guys, you won't need body armor.
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Last edited by Old_Bald_Guy; 12-24-2013 at 11:57 AM..
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  #34  
Old 12-23-2013, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
Maybe I am young and free from injuries, but a level III AR500 concealable steel armor is about same weight as my weighted vest for physical training. I don't find it diffcult to wear in daily routine other than very hot summer days. And they cost about $200.

I also carry a pocket trauma kit any time outside the house. I think it's more important than CCW or body armor.
You said one important point...HOT SUMMER DAYS...otherwise...you would wear it all the time...let the armor companies know this info...give feedback. How can you make body armor lighter,cooler and more comfortable for year around use. research and development.

Last edited by stag6.8; 12-23-2013 at 11:36 PM..
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Old 12-24-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stag6.8 View Post
You said one important point...HOT SUMMER DAYS...otherwise...you would wear it all the time...let the armor companies know this info...give feedback. How can you make body armor lighter,cooler and more comfortable for year around use. research and development.
Try this?
http://www.cortac.com/solution/
The downside is that it might reduce the ability to conceal the vest, depends on the body shape.

and the type of your undershirt/baselayer also makes the difference during hot weather.

Last edited by Lugiahua; 12-24-2013 at 11:03 AM..
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Old 12-24-2013, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
Try this?
http://www.cortac.com/solution/
The downside is that it might reduce the ability to conceal the vest, depends on the body shape.

and the type of your undershirt/baselayer also makes the difference during hot weather.
I checked out the website...if the company made that system just a little more civilian user friendly... more refinement...that system would actually work..even during summer months. The technology is there...but as I stated before, lack of civilian interest. If we speak up...that can change.

Last edited by stag6.8; 12-24-2013 at 4:32 PM..
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Old 12-24-2013, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macthefinger View Post
To these five posters (actually four as one guy is quoted twice) I ask this question... do you carry everyday?
If you do, why? Because you believe that you never know when a situation may present itself, and you may have to use your weapon?
Okay, so why are you saying body armor is "not practical", "straight up retarded" or otherwise absolutely not needed unless you are LEO?
Do you think the other guys won't be shooting back?
Are you all capable of magically avoiding bullets?
Why would you think it's perfectly understandable to carry everyday, but scoff at the notion of body armor?
To my thinking, if you think you might need a gun, you're ignoring the facts if you also think you won't get shot at.
Not one of the five, but I carry everyday. And for me, wearing body armor every day would be absurd.

I live in the real world. That means I work in an office, attend frequent meetings with clients, and go to the gym three times a week. Even ignoring the comfort and practicality factors, someone would notice... quickly. That's not an option. It's called "concealed" carry for a reason.

I'm also not LE or mil, so my probability of an encounter is orders of magnitude lower than it is for those guys. Could it happen? Sure, that's why I carry. Do I expect it to happen? No. If it did happen, would I reasonably expect to anticipate on what day? No.

Thus it's about balance, and taking reasonable precautions. EDC is reasonable. Frequent training is reasonable. For me, body armor is miles over the line into out of balance, and not reasonable. I'm not going to do that any more than I'd buy a bulletproof car or travel with armed security guards or lock myself inside a bulletproof bubble.

It's impossible to eliminate risk. Someone in body armor could get run over by a car while crossing the street. It's about managing risk, which requires calm situational and self assessment, not wild speculation.
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Old 12-26-2013, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knomad View Post
I live in the real world. That means I work in an office, attend frequent meetings with clients, and go to the gym three times a week. Even ignoring the comfort and practicality factors, someone would notice... quickly. That's not an option. It's called "concealed" carry for a reason.

You make good points, Knomad.
In truth, I am not advocating for wearing it.
But I did want to point out to people here that there is, in my estimation, a general disconnect between carrying (and anticipating shooting someone) and thinking about the other guy shooting back.
For instance, many of us have thousands of rounds of ammo stockpiled.
For what?
Are we really going to get off 5,000 rounds before we take a bullet ourselves?
Who are we shooting at? Jose Feliciano?
That is my point. Body armor is as necessary as a gun, but as you pointed out, there are logistic problems.
But I think there is just as good a chance that the guy with 5,000 rounds of ammo is going to get off 3 or 4 shots and the remaining 4, 996 rounds will be inventory at an estate sale.
This possibility needs to be contemplated, at least as much as the scenarios in which we cast ourselves as heroic survivors.
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  #39  
Old 12-26-2013, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macthefinger View Post
You make good points, Knomad.
In truth, I am not advocating for wearing it.
But I did want to point out to people here that there is, in my estimation, a general disconnect between carrying (and anticipating shooting someone) and thinking about the other guy shooting back.
For instance, many of us have thousands of rounds of ammo stockpiled.
For what?
Are we really going to get off 5,000 rounds before we take a bullet ourselves?
Who are we shooting at? Jose Feliciano?
That is my point. Body armor is as necessary as a gun, but as you pointed out, there are logistic problems.
But I think there is just as good a chance that the guy with 5,000 rounds of ammo is going to get off 3 or 4 shots and the remaining 4, 996 rounds will be inventory at an estate sale.
This possibility needs to be contemplated, at least as much as the scenarios in which we cast ourselves as heroic survivors.
I made the same points.

Why do I have cases of ammo on hand? So I can buffer the ammo runs we had this last year and still continue to shoot. It also wouldn't be a bad thing in case something real bad happened and you need it. That situation would probably call for a vest, which I advocated myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by VendetAR
Ive considered armor and a plate carrier for a SHTF scenario, but wearing it everyday like underwear is straight up retarded unless you are a high profile celebrity with stalkers or a politician/dignitary.
Body armor IS NOT as necessary as a gun. I can ward off potential threats with a gun without pulling the trigger. I'd like to see you scare off a mugger with your bulletproof vest.

It sounds to me like you live in a world where tomorrow, your neighbors are going to turn into zombies and you will have to kill off the evil gangs of marauders. The chances of that happening are orders of magnitudes less than you being killed by a pistol toting bad guy which is many times less likely that being shot by a bad guy.

As Ive stated before, unless you attract the attention of bad guys because you are a high profile person such as a politician/dignitary/celebrity or the personal security for them or a LEO and/or security guard, you have almost no reason to wear a vest. Your kid at school typically has more reason to be sporting Kevlar or a ballistic plate than a typical works 8-5 middle class adult.

Try not to work at the extremes, it will save you money and possibly a heart attack from the paranoia and stress.
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  #40  
Old 12-27-2013, 10:20 AM
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I don't think the OP was looking to get flamed.

OP, I wouldn't wear body armor as part of any everyday carry. Maybe special situations where there was no other way to avoid a bad situation.

As some already mentioned, situational awareness and avoiding high risk situations is the best way.

Now having body armor at the house and available, sure, why not. It wouldn't be a bad thing to have for a just in case situation. The likely hood of actually needing it is low, but having some at home could pay off.

Honestly, if I thought I needed to wear it everyday, I would probably heavily reevaluate wear I live & do business, and look into relocating.
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