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  #161  
Old 01-03-2014, 7:30 PM
gawker gawker is offline
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Looks like the promo price for the easy 308 jig is over.
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  #162  
Old 01-03-2014, 8:41 PM
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Tagged, waiting on the video
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  #163  
Old 01-04-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_k_lopez View Post
And I DID mill out the center first - milling out the center the end mill doesn't touch the guide plate - unfortunately - the way I read the directions was to mill out the center at the marked depth THEN do the edges at the marked depth not do the centers all the way to the final depth, then go back and cut the edges.

Guess you're smarter than we are since it looks like BigJ had similar issues as I did.
Since you mentioned my name Bill, I feel compelled to respond. Please understand I'm not pointing fingers, or blaming anyone.

But after looking at your pictures, and rereading the manual I'm just not sure how you managed to trash the jig so badly. For one, the manual talks about making rough cuts down to the 3rd hash BEFORE any finishing cut is to be made:





I initially missed/ignored the instructions about the rough vs final cuts, and on my first pass started cutting my jig. But I caught it right away because all the sudden that 'feels like cutting thru butter' feeling went away, and the router started jumping and skipping all over the place, which told me something was wrong. I stopped, noticed the cut in the jig (one single vertical line where the mill just started cutting it), put the thing down, and picked back up the instructions. I read them again, and sure enough it became pretty darmed obvious what I'd done wrong.

Again, I'm not saying these things to offend or attack you. But am I saying them to hopefully help others not make the same mistakes. Read those instructions. CAREFULLY! And watch what you're doing. If I'd read I'd have been fine. If I'd been paying closer attention while cutting, I'd have been fine. But instead I screwed up twice, and fortunately caught myself before things got out of hand.

As for replacement parts, looks like they are indeed for sale:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3b.JPG (26.2 KB, 752 views)
File Type: jpg 3c.JPG (83.9 KB, 745 views)
File Type: jpg Capture.JPG (62.8 KB, 747 views)
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Last edited by BigJ; 01-04-2014 at 10:18 AM..
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  #164  
Old 01-04-2014, 10:43 AM
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Speaking of the manual, there is another edit they'll need to make so be aware:

-"Step 5: Drilling out the holes for the fire control group" mentions the use of/need for a 5/16" bit several times. That's incorrect; that should say 5/32" bit each time; you never use a 5/16" at any point during this build. I called them yesterday and confirmed that.

Well I've finished this one up. Here are some thoughts:

Quite frankly, the fishined pockets look like crap:








First thing I noticed is that my holes are too deep. I checked my stop before and after every cut, but I think using a polymer stop was a bad idea; it must have compressed ever so slightly when finishing the cut. This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Century-Drill-...rds=drill+stop

Don't use it. Use a real drill stop like they suggest in the manual.

As for the sides and bottom, there's a real technique to milling with a router, and I didn't exactly get the hang of it until I was pretty much done with this one. I'm not sure how to explain it; I think its just one of those things you need to do for a little while yourself, before it clicks. In retrospect, I think I would have benefitted from some practice first, and that would be my suggestion to you: find a block of aluminum, or even a piece of 2x4 wood. Set things up correctly, drill a pilot hole and practice making smooth, slow easy cuts with your router and end mill. If I'd done that first, I bet I'd end up with much smoother walls than this one has. Next time...

As for the finished product? My LPK went in with zero trouble, save one detail: the selector is crazy loose. I mean like pick up the lower and gravity flops the lever around in the detent, loose. I'm not sure why yet, but I suspect its the selector barrel/detent itself and not the lower/jig/cuts. I'll update on that when I figure it out.

So, bottom line would I recommend this kit and this lower? You bet, without hesitation. I will be ordering (many) more paperweights from these guys and that jig is going to earn its keep. Sure, there's some progress they need to make on the manual and that video will hopefully help clarify many of the points the manual leaves less than clear. But overall, this setup is money VERY well spent.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (44.7 KB, 766 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (92.0 KB, 754 views)
File Type: jpg 3.jpg (57.9 KB, 747 views)
File Type: jpg 4.jpg (71.2 KB, 743 views)
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  #165  
Old 01-04-2014, 11:12 AM
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The issue with the chewed up template experienced here seems to be stemming from not following the directions below highlighted in blue. We are going to slightly reword this to make it more clear, and highlight it in red in the manual so it can't be missed. If you messed up your template prior to version 8.2 of the manual being posted, we will replace the chewed up piece for free. Please send us an email and we will get it taken care of.

"Always verify end mill cutting surface has cleared or 1/2 down the jig template"

"In a repeating fashion, increase the end-mill depth by ˝ to 1/3 hash and execute a rough pass until the depth of 2.5 to 2.66 hash is achieved (figure 3.10)"

"• Set the end-mill to the 3rd hash mark and execute a finish pass (see figure 3.11)"


We are adding this to the manual:

Under no circumstances should the cutting surface of the end mill ever touch the jig. Only the smooth part of the end mill (Called the shank) should ever touch the template. You MUST verify that the cutting surface of your end mill has cleared the template before executing a finishing pass. Following this will solve this entire problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJ View Post
I did the same thing, although I caught myself before damaging the trigger pocket template too badly. I think the instructions probably shouldn't suggest the 3rd hash mark as being the first finishing cut since that depth is totally going to depend on your end mill, and how deeply its installed in your router. The instructions should probably say make the first finishing cut as soon as your end mill's cutting surface has cleared the bottom of the jig, and not before.
BigJ, you bring up a good point. In our testing, the end mill cleared after the 3rd hash mark. It's logical that this could be different for people using different types of routers and end mills though. It does seem like a safer approach is to just verify that the cutting surface is not touching the jig

We greatly appreciate all of your feedback. We had a pretty sizable number of novice beta testers complete a lower based solely of the instruction manual and this was not a problem initially. Your feedback helps us identify things like this that are not entirely clear and we will correct them.

Manual version 8.2 will be posted by 7 PM PST today or sooner with clarification on when to make the finishing pass.
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Last edited by 80% Arms; 01-04-2014 at 11:14 AM..
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  #166  
Old 01-04-2014, 11:22 AM
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Very nice guys. Top notch customer service, that.

I placed my order and paid for a replacement trigger template about 5 minutes before you posted that, but I don't mind eating the cost. It was my fault that I chewed it, not yours.

Thank you for being receptive to our feedback. Its only going to help make a good product even better. Looking forward to the revised manual!
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  #167  
Old 01-04-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJ View Post
Very nice guys. Top notch customer service, that.

I placed my order and paid for a replacement trigger template about 5 minutes before you posted that, but I don't mind eating the cost. It was my fault that I chewed it, not yours.

Thank you for being receptive to our feedback. Its only going to help make a good product even better. Looking forward to the revised manual!
Think I found your order. Just refunded it. Will ship to you at no cost.
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  #168  
Old 01-04-2014, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 80% Arms View Post
Think I found your order. Just refunded it. Will ship to you at no cost.
Wow, thanks guys. Hats off to ya. We'll be doing lots more business in the future, that's for sure. :cheers:
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  #169  
Old 01-04-2014, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJ View Post
Since you mentioned my name Bill, I feel compelled to respond. Please understand I'm not pointing fingers, or blaming anyone.

But after looking at your pictures, and rereading the manual I'm just not sure how you managed to trash the jig so badly. For one, the manual talks about making rough cuts down to the 3rd hash BEFORE any finishing cut is to be made:
The only person I'm blaming is me (I think I previously said that as well).

The way I understood the manual was that after making the first rough cut you were to then do the finish cut (I'll have to go back and look at the manual that I downloaded from them the first day to see the exact wording) then lower the depth of the cut and repeat.

What router are you using? Did you get the B&D? - one of my irks is that I can't see anything going on while cutting - and - partially part of the reason I didn't catch my mistake until it was too late. The only way to visually see where the cutting surface of the end mill is by laying the plates down on the router - which means disassembling the top part of the jig. A re word of the manual that says NO FINISH CUTS UNTIL THE THIRD MARK would have helped so that's a real positive change to instruction manual . Another thing would be using an end mill with a shorter cutting surface like 1" instead of 1.5" - unfortunately I can't find an end mill with those specs. 4" long shanks seem to only have 1.5" long cutting surfaces. I'm going to check with a friend of mine that has a machine shop (unfortunately for me, in North Carolina ).

When I checked on ordering just "parts" the individual items weren't listed - I got a phone call from 80% Arms today and they offered to replace the top plate for free (which I was more than willing to pay for), really happy about that.

I started cutting the rear shelf last night but I only did a portion of it - I was too frustrated and tired - going to wait until I get the new top jig plate before continuing on. The chips from the end mill are so fine they make a huge mess in the garage. I'm back to work on Monday and want to relax the last few days before going back to the grind.
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  #170  
Old 01-04-2014, 12:16 PM
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Its all good bill, I understand where you're coming from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_k_lopez View Post
...What router are you using? Did you get the B&D? - one of my irks is that I can't see anything going on while cutting - and - partially part of the reason I didn't catch my mistake until it was too late.
Yep I used the B&D, and I had a love hate relationship with it. I loved the two handed control, but hated the plastic table and how it adjusts. Once I removed the dust cover, I loved being able to see what was going on because of the oversized clearance for the bit. But because that dust cover was gone, I hated how little of the depth gauge sat on the table; it rocked too much allowing for maybe 1/16" of variance in the setting.

Maybe try taking that cover off too (the clear plastic piece with the port on it that supposed to let you put a vacuum hose on?). Also I found using a light clamped to my desk, shining upward from the underside of the jig when mounted in the vise really helped me see what was going on.
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Last edited by BigJ; 01-04-2014 at 12:19 PM..
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  #171  
Old 01-04-2014, 12:28 PM
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I just did the initial drilling...


...took about an hour with a 18V Dewalt(let the drill cool off between holes).
I wanted to see how hard it would be with a cordless, plus I don't have a drill press.
Use a quality drill bit, stop, slow speed, and plenty of Rapid Tap or similar.
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  #172  
Old 01-04-2014, 1:36 PM
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After taking a hard look at the Black and Decker router, we are no longer recommending it. If you already have one, it definitely works, but we feel there are quality control issues with the Black and Decker router that are causing inconsistent results depending which one you happen to get. If you notice you can flex your end mill from side to side when it's secured in the B&D router, we would recommend returning it. If your end mill seems very rigid in there and does't give when pushed from side to side, then you should be fine.

We have several Porter Cable and Dewalt routers and they all seem to be of consistent quality. This is going to be our official recommended router going forward, as it's the cheapest one that yields quality results.
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Last edited by 80% Arms; 01-04-2014 at 2:06 PM..
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  #173  
Old 01-04-2014, 3:31 PM
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I have my B&D router and I haven't even opened it yet to check the play. Just to be on the safe side, I am going to send it back and get a Porter Cable or DeWalt. Are the recommended routers the Porter-Cable 7310 and the DeWalt D26670 Laminate Trim Routers?
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  #174  
Old 01-04-2014, 3:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamMan View Post
I have my B&D router and I haven't even opened it yet to check the play. Just to be on the safe side, I am going to send it back and get a Porter Cable or DeWalt. Are the recommended routers the Porter-Cable 7310 and the DeWalt D26670 Laminate Trim Routers?
Yes
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  #175  
Old 01-04-2014, 8:20 PM
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Version 8.2 of the manual has been posted. http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/021...essed.pdf?1329

We've clarified a few things and made it easier to follow overall. The problem of accidentally milling the jig should be solved if you follow the bolded red text in the manual.
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  #176  
Old 01-05-2014, 12:03 AM
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Just finished, sorry for the phone pictures


I have the same rough finish on the sides. This and the slight poke through to the bullet button cavity is due to the end mill jumping when I tried to take off too much material. Neither should effect function of the lower.

I honestly think this jig is a game changer. I will be buying another lower and doing this again.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
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  #177  
Old 01-05-2014, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJ View Post
Speaking of the manual, there is another edit they'll need to make so be aware:

-"Step 5: Drilling out the holes for the fire control group" mentions the use of/need for a 5/16" bit several times. That's incorrect; that should say 5/32" bit each time; you never use a 5/16" at any point during this build. I called them yesterday and confirmed that.

Well I've finished this one up. Here are some thoughts:

Quite frankly, the fishined pockets look like crap:








First thing I noticed is that my holes are too deep. I checked my stop before and after every cut, but I think using a polymer stop was a bad idea; it must have compressed ever so slightly when finishing the cut. This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Century-Drill-...rds=drill+stop

Don't use it. Use a real drill stop like they suggest in the manual.

As for the sides and bottom, there's a real technique to milling with a router, and I didn't exactly get the hang of it until I was pretty much done with this one. I'm not sure how to explain it; I think its just one of those things you need to do for a little while yourself, before it clicks. In retrospect, I think I would have benefitted from some practice first, and that would be my suggestion to you: find a block of aluminum, or even a piece of 2x4 wood. Set things up correctly, drill a pilot hole and practice making smooth, slow easy cuts with your router and end mill. If I'd done that first, I bet I'd end up with much smoother walls than this one has. Next time...

As for the finished product? My LPK went in with zero trouble, save one detail: the selector is crazy loose. I mean like pick up the lower and gravity flops the lever around in the detent, loose. I'm not sure why yet, but I suspect its the selector barrel/detent itself and not the lower/jig/cuts. I'll update on that when I figure it out.

So, bottom line would I recommend this kit and this lower? You bet, without hesitation. I will be ordering (many) more paperweights from these guys and that jig is going to earn its keep. Sure, there's some progress they need to make on the manual and that video will hopefully help clarify many of the points the manual leaves less than clear. But overall, this setup is money VERY well spent.
I had the same problem with the safety selector. The detent does not go all the way into its hole, causing the loose safety. On mine, I noticed a slight burr on the inside of the hole from drilling the safety selector hole. Take a 1/8 drill and just ream out that hole. Should fix your issues.

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  #178  
Old 01-05-2014, 12:07 AM
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Some have posted that it took them a long time to drill out the trigger pocket. There are three things that can cause this. 1) dull drill bit 2) underpowered cordless drill 3) a lower made out of 7075 alloy takes at least 2x longer to drill.

We made a brief video showing that the main drilling process can be done in just 5 minutes using a $5 drill bit and a standard $50 Dewalt drill. This literally takes about an hour to do with any other jig, including our own 1st gen jig. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccO1Day60sA


Regarding the instructional video, please bear with us a little longer. Based on your feedback here, we are clarifying a couple things in it to make it extra clear how to avoid having any trouble with your end mill chewing up your jig template. It's pretty easy to prevent that from happening with proper instructions and the video will emphasize this.
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Hours 9:00 AM to 5:30 PM Weekdays / 10:00 AM to 2:00 PM Saturday
Phone: (949)-354-ARMS [2767]
Email: sales@80percentarms.com

Last edited by 80% Arms; 01-05-2014 at 12:10 AM..
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  #179  
Old 01-05-2014, 10:12 AM
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What lubricant are you dipping the drill bit into?
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  #180  
Old 01-05-2014, 1:11 PM
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What lubricant are you dipping the drill bit into?
Blasocut, it's the coolant we run in our CNC mills.
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  #181  
Old 01-05-2014, 1:53 PM
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Well ****. I was doing great. I made it past the 3rd hash mark, I had a great polygon cut, I had only managed to slightly nick the edge of the jig and mar it. Then the piece that regulated the depth of the cut on the Black and Decker router I was using vibrated loose. And I didn't catch it until after I had cut a large hole through the bottom of the FCP. ****! ****, ****, ****! And everything had been going so well.

-Mb
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  #182  
Old 01-05-2014, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gun toting monkeyboy View Post
Well ****. I was doing great. I made it past the 3rd hash mark, I had a great polygon cut, I had only managed to slightly nick the edge of the jig and mar it. Then the piece that regulated the depth of the cut on the Black and Decker router I was using vibrated loose. And I didn't catch it until after I had cut a large hole through the bottom of the FCP. ****! ****, ****, ****! And everything had been going so well.

-Mb
Grrrrr, that stinks. I'm sorry we ever recommended that router. Will get in touch with you about a replacement lower.
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  #183  
Old 01-05-2014, 2:33 PM
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Sounds like this has become a great product overall. Well done 80% arms!

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  #184  
Old 01-05-2014, 2:35 PM
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The Porter Cable 7310 is sold out locally. I picked up a Ridgid R24012. Any thoughts pro or con?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1-...012/100337039#
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  #185  
Old 01-05-2014, 2:45 PM
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You know, I still like the jig. Like I said, until that router failure, everything was going very well. It wasn't the jig set up that had the problem.
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  #186  
Old 01-05-2014, 2:54 PM
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So, will this work with the QD lowers?
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  #187  
Old 01-05-2014, 3:10 PM
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The Porter Cable 7310 is sold out locally. I picked up a Ridgid R24012. Any thoughts pro or con?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1-...012/100337039#
We haven't tried that one, but it actually sounds a bit nicer than the Porter Cable, at only a slightly higher cost. It has a built in LED which will be really nice to see what you're doing.

Amazon reviews sound positive:

Quote:
I've had every small router out there. Usually the statement "trim router" means, cheap router. The dewalt (so bad it shouldn't even get a mention), the Porter Cable trim router was almost as much a joke as the dewalt. Bosche Colt is a fine machine, but the lack of insulation makes them very hot to hold onto. The older version of the Ryobi trim router (the cast aluminum unit) was a surprisingly good little router - so they discontinued the quality version of this. The really cool looking trend router will break every time, And the Festool - well, festool has a really screwed up idea about proper pricing for their product.

This little thing is super nice. Most small routers have zero options, an extreme lack of finer adjustment (if anything more that a simple belt clamp that usually breaks - like dewalt and PC) - and there's an LED in this one! I build guitars for a living - own and operate Fretsong Guitars - [...] - so I need a battery of different routers. For the inlay work, and free-hand work on the bodies, this tool is very comfortable - almost charming. I encounter many situations that require delicate and accurate free-handed routing, on sometimes un-even surfaces - and this router is superb for this.

I saw reviews from someone stipid enough to run a 3/4" bit (likely on deep passes) with this little machine - this type of tool isn't made for that kind of work - it's a finess tool, something for refined work. If I am doing heavy work - I use a 1/2" shank 2.5 hp Milwaukee - or the big Porter Cable.

This tool is truly one of the best I have ever tried for this kind of work. The casing, the base, and the other hardware is very well made. The handling is almost too comfortable for a router :0) And they should ALL have LED work-lights in them - this feature is something that I cannot believe that I got by without it, before they did this!

Their 1/4 sheet sander was the worst, but the drill is also a fine product. Looking forward to seeing more fine little power tools from these guys - by far this router is the MOST bang for your buck - for details and finer applications.
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  #188  
Old 01-05-2014, 3:24 PM
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Wow, thanks guys. Hats off to ya. We'll be doing lots more business in the future, that's for sure. :cheers:
I agree, that is really awesome. As BigJ's wife and one who also plans to work on this same project, this kind of customer service really goes a long way with us.
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  #189  
Old 01-05-2014, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MingTheMerciless View Post
The Porter Cable 7310 is sold out locally. I picked up a Ridgid R24012. Any thoughts pro or con?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1-...012/100337039#

While I have not used that router on aluminum yet, I do use one often in my day to day job. The light and clear base are nice to help you see what you are doing.
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  #190  
Old 01-05-2014, 5:29 PM
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I bought one of these as well and plan to try it on a .308 paperweight once those ship. I might not be able to contain myself though and order a AR15 paperweight in the meantime :-)

I'll report back on the router once I use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MingTheMerciless View Post
The Porter Cable 7310 is sold out locally. I picked up a Ridgid R24012. Any thoughts pro or con?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1-...012/100337039#
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  #191  
Old 01-05-2014, 6:22 PM
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Damn it - I went a bought that Black & Decker per the Recommendations made.
Which is worse: using it anyway or returning it via Amazon w/o shipping box?
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Old 01-05-2014, 6:41 PM
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Damn it - I went a bought that Black & Decker per the Recommendations made.
Which is worse: using it anyway or returning it via Amazon w/o shipping box?
I'm going to return mine to Amazon (without the box), listed as defective. Amazon typically makes things right in situations like this.
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  #193  
Old 01-05-2014, 7:10 PM
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nice piece...exceptionally nice lowers as well. i will be watching this thread. interested in the .308 set up...
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  #194  
Old 01-05-2014, 9:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCal Gunner View Post
Damn it - I went a bought that Black & Decker per the Recommendations made.
Which is worse: using it anyway or returning it via Amazon w/o shipping box?
Amazon will usually take things back without the box. If you still have the option to return it, would recommend doing so.
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  #195  
Old 01-06-2014, 12:17 PM
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Update on the Rigid brand router, we spoke to a customer who used it and had an issue with the depth setting coming loose midway through a cut. If you are using the Rigid brand router, you need to pay very close attention that the depth setting doesn't change mid way though and frequently check that it's not coming loose.

Still recommending the Porter Cable and Dewalt routers as the most fool proof versions.
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  #196  
Old 01-06-2014, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80% Arms View Post
Update on the Rigid brand router, we spoke to a customer who used it and had an issue with the depth setting coming loose midway through a cut. If you are using the Rigid brand router, you need to pay very close attention that the depth setting doesn't change mid way though and frequently check that it's not coming loose.

Still recommending the Porter Cable and Dewalt routers as the most fool proof versions.
I just dropped my B&D router off with UPS for return to Amazon. As soon as I get the refund, I will likely go with the Dewalt. While looking on Amazon, the Makita looks interesting with the clear base but Dewalt beats the Porter Cable a few bucks on price and is recommended. I am home from vacation and can't wait to get started! Hurry up UPS and Amazon!
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  #197  
Old 01-06-2014, 5:08 PM
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I have a Bosch Colt palm router. Great for wood. Two locking mechanisms and micro adjust. They are $100 ish but it's a Bosch and last awhile. Work great routing dado slots in any wood Home Depot sells.
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  #198  
Old 01-06-2014, 9:22 PM
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An update on router selection:

To use the Easy Jig in the configuration we recommend, you need a laminate trim router (like the Porter Cable and Dewalt routers we've posted previously), which is smaller than most full size routers. You can use a full size router, but you will have to follow a slightly different procedure than what the manual suggests for making the trigger hole.

In the manual, on page 21, we have you put the rear shelf pocket template directly on top of the jig without using the spacer plate to raise it up like in the previous steps. The reason for this is because the router is easier to control when it's lower down and closer to the part. This makes it easier to get a nice clean trigger hole. With a regular router, they larger base of those routers will hit the buffer tube hole on the lower. In order to clear the buffer tube area, you will need to use the spacer plate to raise the router above the buffer tube. With the spacer in, it's a little harder to do the trigger hole, but by no means impossible.

We will add this as an update to the manual in the future for those who already have a full size router and don't want to have to buy a laminate router.
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  #199  
Old 01-06-2014, 9:41 PM
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:44 PM
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Called these guys up this morning. Talked to them about my fire control pocket template problem and they are sending me a new one soon. I must say these guys offer great customer service. Will definitely be doing business with these guys soon. thanks again "T"
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