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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-04-2008, 12:27 PM
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Default The primary tommorrow.

ok people the primary is tommorrow. I will say this I will not vote for Ron Paul. Sorry guys but i have to say this because a vote for him is a vote for the Billery Clinton. I'm sorry to say this but he has no chance of winning. and just a sliver of a chance the frickin woman winning just churns my stomach to where i want to puke my guts out. i sure as hell hope that she does not get the nomination. hopefully she loses by a wide margin in tommorrows primary.

i did not start this thread to detract what Ron Paul stands for. He has some good ideas that i like. i like that he wants to stick to the Consitution. with that being said i'm not slamming him and just don't want billery again. we do not need 20+ years of Bush and Clinton. come on folks we need someone else. we had 8 yrs of her and bill. now don't get me wrong if she did win, i have to say the scandals that may come about with bill are just plain hillarious. considering the president of frances' wife was a model. imagine going after her? OMG how frickin funny.

but i do think the damage she would cause would un repairable. i despise this women for all she is and all she stands for. if your a gun owner and think she should win, give up your guns now for you do not deserve to own them after what bill did to us. yeah the AWB is gone but AWB 2.0 will not have a sunset and many more firearms will be included in the next ban.

again i'm not slamming Ron Paul in anyway. i just want to see our firearms rights preserved just a little longer. call me a sexist or chauvenist.i don't care hillary is not the answer to our nations' woes now!
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2008, 12:45 PM
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I'm of the opinion that we should probably rally behind Romney. I don't like it, but I think he's better than McCain. Huckabee is all but conceaded so he's not worth throwing away my vote. Anyway, I'm going with Romney.
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:46 PM
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If you keep voting for the lesser of two evils, then you're always going to get evil and nothing is every going to get better. You guys need to stop being afraid. It doesn't matter if we have a Democrat or Republican, they're just two faces of the same statist party. They each compete with each other for the spoils of corruption.

I'd prefer to see Hillary win the election because that way, the opposition to her will be more fierce. Just look at what happened when the Republicans won control of Congress after the 1994 election. They were able to keep Bill Clinton in check. If McCain is elected, then he's going to be able to pass his liberal big government, war mongering agenda under the guise of patriotism. I would rather have the enemy I know because I can predict what they're going to do. There's just no knowing what damage McCain is going to do and that scares me more than Hillary.
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Old 02-04-2008, 1:00 PM
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Your post doesn't really make any sense to me. A vote for Ron Paul or anybody else doesn't effect Clinton at all! Its a primary.... you can only vote for your registered party! If you're a Republican, you WILL NOT get a ballot that even has Hillary's name on it!!! You will only get a list of Republican nominees. I would love to see the real presidential race between Ron Paul and psycho *****...

Ron Paul may not have a chance, but I for one refuse to throw my vote away on someone I dislike just to side with the nominee I THINK has a better chance of winning. Vote for Ron Paul!!!
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  #5  
Old 02-04-2008, 1:15 PM
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Wife and I voted absentee for Ron Paul. At a SuperBowl party I talked with 3 undecided, registered (R)s and they will now be voting for Ron Paul tomorrow too.

You only lose if you don't try.
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  #6  
Old 02-04-2008, 1:44 PM
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I'm voting Ron Paul too. There is no longer any reason to vote strategically. All of the front runners from both parties turn my stomach. I might as well vote for Paul while I have the chance.
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Old 02-04-2008, 1:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stag1500 View Post
I'd prefer to see Hillary win the election because that way, the opposition to her will be more fierce. Just look at what happened when the Republicans won control of Congress after the 1994 election. They were able to keep Bill Clinton in check. If McCain is elected, then he's going to be able to pass his liberal big government, war mongering agenda under the guise of patriotism. I would rather have the enemy I know because I can predict what they're going to do. There's just no knowing what damage McCain is going to do and that scares me more than Hillary.
What opposition? The Democrats control congress now. Anything Hillary wants - Hillary would get.

Not that I disagree with you. Vote for what you believe, not for who you believe can win. No one in the world thought the colonies would win against England at the start of this country...

That doesn't mean we should just keel over and give up!
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Old 02-04-2008, 2:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stag1500
If you keep voting for the lesser of two evils, then you're always going to get evil and nothing is every going to get better. You guys need to stop being afraid. It doesn't matter if we have a Democrat or Republican, they're just two faces of the same statist party. They each compete with each other for the spoils of corruption.

I'd prefer to see Hillary win the election because that way, the opposition to her will be more fierce. Just look at what happened when the Republicans won control of Congress after the 1994 election. They were able to keep Bill Clinton in check. If McCain is elected, then he's going to be able to pass his liberal big government, war mongering agenda under the guise of patriotism. I would rather have the enemy I know because I can predict what they're going to do. There's just no knowing what damage McCain is going to do and that scares me more than Hillary.
+100! When you compromise on principal, you can only lose.

By the way; as to voting for the lesser of two evils, how has that been working out for us gunnies lately?
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The words "right" and "people" are ambiguous, dude. Furthermore, the ambiguity was probably intentional.
This is really all the antis have? I suppose they expected the second amendment to list full names and social security numbers!
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2008, 2:27 PM
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go ahead and vote for ron paul if it makes yo feel principled, but you are voting yourself irrelevant. this primary vote is important and WILL effect the general. it's going to be mccain or romney, against obama or hillary. the media is keeping mccain in long enough to destroy him in the general. for the first time in a long time the california conservative vote is relevant in a presidential election and you want to vote for paul? to make a statment that nobody will get or remember? if you truly dont want obama and hillary you have to vote for romney. mccain can not beat obama or hillary even though the liberals claim that they fear him the most. since when do we take politcal advise from the enemy?
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Old 02-04-2008, 2:47 PM
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Carter gave us Reagan.

We could use a Reagan right about now.
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The words "right" and "people" are ambiguous, dude. Furthermore, the ambiguity was probably intentional.
This is really all the antis have? I suppose they expected the second amendment to list full names and social security numbers!
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  #11  
Old 02-04-2008, 3:10 PM
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I'm voting for Ron Paul. I know, it's a long shot at best, etc, but he's getting my vote. If I don't, I'll know that I didn't take my one chance ever to almost literally vote for the constitution, and I wouldn't want to live with that.
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Old 02-04-2008, 3:40 PM
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Agreed. RP has my vote, and as I have stated in other threads, my hope is that the message of adhering to the Constitution does not end with this election or RP himself. I would like to see a growing appreciation of the Constitution that evolves into real political clout. If we turn our back on RP's message, we are also turning our back on the expectation of following the Constitution.

On a separate note, it looks like McCain or Romney will get the Republican nod. Neither is in line with my thinking politically...especially McCain with his stance on illegal immigration. I must admit, I'm tempted to vote Romney just to keep McCain from getting the nod, which I believe would be a disaster for all conservatives. I'm just excited to finally be voting FOR something as opposed to AGAINST someone...at least for this primary.
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2008, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
Carter gave us Reagan.

We could use a Reagan right about now.
yep tha would be great. if you want Hillary turn in your guns now and sign over your paycheck to her. universal health care. i have a thread on it. read it and it may change your mind. a vote for paul is a vote for hillary. srry that's the truth.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2008, 4:26 PM
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The strangest thing i always hear from people is, Ron Paul makes a lot of sense and i like his ideas but i dont think he'd win, that just does not make any sense to me if everyone who says i agree with Ron Paul mans up and votes for him then he'll WIN,. simple as that. Freaking Sheeple that cant think for themselves. Ron Paul got my vote, anyone else is just a waste of my vote, and yours.
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  #15  
Old 02-04-2008, 4:27 PM
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The apologists always tell us to work through the primaries. Well, I’m working through the God-damned primary, and I will be voting for Ron Paul. A Republican will win the Republican primary in any case.

If you can’t be bothered to fight for your principles now, then you have already lost.
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  #16  
Old 02-04-2008, 4:27 PM
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I'm voting for Ron Paul...If I don't, I'll know that I didn't take my one chance ever to almost literally vote for the constitution, and I wouldn't want to live with that.
+1

Any vote for one candidate against another in the Primary will be viewed by the "vote getter" as a mandate for their brand of the status quo. A vote for Ron Paul is the best way to communicate to the Party and which ever candidate wins the nomination that we want the Constitution to serve as a limit on government action and we want the Republican Party to stand for that again.

Ron Paul likely got 1st in La., 2nd in NV, 3rd, possible 2nd, in Maine. I want him in the race all the way to the convention. I want him as a burr in the Republican saddle, a thorn in their side reminding them that we want the Supreme Law of the Land followed!
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Old 02-04-2008, 4:47 PM
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Ron Paul has my vote...all 6 of them. My family votes absentee due to hours of jobs and my parents follow my lead...SO since I'm the vocal one of the family that's how it goes. If (it ain't gonna happen) we all would stick togather we could actually take back this pos state for a start AND MAKE THE CONSTITUTION MEAN WHAT OUR FORE-FATHERS WANTED IT TO MEAN WAY BACK WHEN.

Rio
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Old 02-04-2008, 4:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
I'm voting for Ron Paul. I know, it's a long shot at best, etc, but he's getting my vote. If I don't, I'll know that I didn't take my one chance ever to almost literally vote for the constitution, and I wouldn't want to live with that.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 02-04-2008, 5:25 PM
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'nother vote for Ron Paul.

Hopefully someone hears what we are saying.
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Old 02-04-2008, 5:43 PM
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No thanks to the overly-aggressive intarw3b RP proselytizing, but I plan to vote for Ron Paul. Do I agree with him on everything? No. But he is, IMO, the most credible candidate when it comes to my current priorities: RTKBA, civil liberties, privacy rights, limited government, and fiscal responsibility.
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Old 02-04-2008, 5:47 PM
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ok people the primary is tommorrow. I will say this I will not vote for Ron Paul. Sorry guys but i have to say this because a vote for him is a vote for the Billery Clinton.
I think you are wrong with your assessment.
Let me explain: tomorrow are the primaries - not the election for president. If this was the election for president I would agree with you that voting for a long shot strengthens the opposing party.
In Ron Paul's case, he doesn't stand a chance within the party. Therefore, voting for him sends our representatives a "protest notice" reminding them that many people value what Ron Paul stands for. The candidates competing for the respective party nominations will still win those positions. Since the competition is currently internal, you aren't strengthening any candidate from a different party. Someone may claim that you are weakening someone from within the Republican party, but given Ron Paul's low ranking - I doubt it would have any material impact.
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Old 02-04-2008, 5:47 PM
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srry guys i wont vote for him. it is everyones right to vote for who they choose to but i wont do it. i feel that he won't win. and my guns are not worth the gamble given that hillary may get the nomination.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
contact the governor
https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
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Old 02-04-2008, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Satex View Post
I think you are wrong with your assessment.
Let me explain: tomorrow are the primaries - not the election for president. If this was the election for president I would agree with you that voting for a long shot strengthens the opposing party.
In Ron Paul's case, he doesn't stand a chance within the party. Therefore, voting for him sends our representatives a "protest notice" reminding them that many people value what Ron Paul stands for. The candidates competing for the respective party nominations will still win those positions. Since the competition is currently internal, you aren't strengthening any candidate from a different party. Someone may claim that you are weakening someone from within the Republican party, but given Ron Paul's low ranking - I doubt it would have any material impact.
It is everyones right to vote for whom they choose to. I respect that. But knowing that Hillary may get the nomination it scares me. I will not vote for Paul.

Yeah you guys are showin the republican party a thing or two by voting for him. but ross perot comes to mind. if memory serves as it has been a long time he ran as an independent and took votes away from Bush Sr. and we got Bill Clinton. now again ron paul is running and he is a republican but will he bow out if he loses or run as an independent and take votes away from the republican nominee whoever it may be.

this is my reason for not voting for him and my analogy of it. a vote for him in the general if he runs as independent is a vote for hillary if she gets the nomination.

i do not trush any democrat for the reason being as look at what they have done to our state. and i sure as hell don't trust Hillary Clinton. she has allready been president before we don't need her. again do we really want 20 yrs of bush and clinton? i don't

EDIT: guys i do appreciate it that this thread has remaind civil and no personall attacks on anyone has occrured. srry guys you did not change my mind. and no i'm not in lock step with the republican party. i just don't feel he has a chance.
please continue to keep this thread civil.
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Quote:
Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
contact the governor
https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
When Hell is full the dead will walk the Earth. (Dawn of the Dead)
NRA Life Member.

Last edited by chris; 02-04-2008 at 6:02 PM..
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Old 02-04-2008, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by FreedomIsNotFree View Post
I'm just excited to finally be voting FOR something as opposed to AGAINST someone...at least for this primary.
That's a great way to put it. This may very well be the only time I'll ever have the opportunity to vote for someone, without having to vote 3rd party.

And my feeling is that RP will start some kind of post-election movement to revitalize belief in the constitution. That is sorely needed. Done the right way, it could have a substantial influence in politics, even if RP himself doesn't win, etc.
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Old 02-04-2008, 6:07 PM
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That's a great way to put it. This may very well be the only time I'll ever have the opportunity to vote for someone, without having to vote 3rd party.

And my feeling is that RP will start some kind of post-election movement to revitalize belief in the constitution. That is sorely needed. Done the right way, it could have a substantial influence in politics, even if RP himself doesn't win, etc.
I totally agree with you. There needs to be a NEW party born away of the crap that the republican party now is. A "Constitutionalist" party, or some such. Selling the American way of life so we can go to war and make big companies big money - OR subsidize all the losers who can't get off their asses and work in this country along with people who refuse to integrate with American culture... This is no choice.

Either way, people that believe in life, liberty, and freedom are getting screwed. I may not agree with everything Ron Paul stands for, but the big things I can get on board with.
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Old 02-04-2008, 6:23 PM
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OK How about this lets say you don't vote for RP in the primary but he still wins the Nomination.

I know a lot of you think he is a long shot but just Humor me for now and tell me will you vote for him in the General election if he is brought forth as the republican party's nomination ?
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Old 02-04-2008, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satex View Post
I think you are wrong with your assessment.
Let me explain: tomorrow are the primaries - not the election for president. If this was the election for president I would agree with you that voting for a long shot strengthens the opposing party.
In Ron Paul's case, he doesn't stand a chance within the party. Therefore, voting for him sends our representatives a "protest notice" reminding them that many people value what Ron Paul stands for. The candidates competing for the respective party nominations will still win those positions. Since the competition is currently internal, you aren't strengthening any candidate from a different party. Someone may claim that you are weakening someone from within the Republican party, but given Ron Paul's low ranking - I doubt it would have any material impact.
as it looks right now, mccain and obama will get the nomination. if you think mccain can beat obama then go ahead and vote for paul, even though no one will get or care about your "protest notice". not to offend any of you but the overwhelming opinion of paul is he is a kook. so his voters will be seen as such. i dont agree with it but it is reality.

the question is which republican do we want to send to the general election.
mccain, in my opinion is headed for disaster. he can not debate to save his life. obama and even hillary can out debate him. he gets flustered and loses his composure and believe me the dems are going to come after him. just imagine a 5 fooot 9 72 year old mccain who looks more dead than alive on stage with obama and then can not articulate conservative values, mostly because he doesnt believe them.

we can not send mccain to the general election. this is why we need to vote for romney. california's vote is key this time. if mccain wins, nobody will care about your ron paul protest vote. the headlines will be: mccain is the nominee, and then our vote will again be irrelevant in the general as it always is.
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Since your myopic view is in concurrence with your cognizant lifespan on this planet, obviously less than 20 years, I will grant you a dispensation.

Figure that out and exercise your mind.....
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  #28  
Old 02-04-2008, 6:37 PM
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Voting for RP as well and I just put up my RP sticker on my car.
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  #29  
Old 02-04-2008, 6:50 PM
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Unfortunately, this year I'm out of luck, Ind., and the Rep primary is closed. In the past, I've been able to choose the party when I went in to vote. If I'm able, I'll be voting for Romney, but it looks like I will have to Vote the Dem ticket, which is not closed. I believe that Billery is more beatable that O, so that's who I will most likely be voting for. I really believe that she is too offensive to get elected in the general election.
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  #30  
Old 02-04-2008, 6:55 PM
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i dont really care any rep. nominee but, i do like the fact that mcain wasn't a sissy and served in vietnam. romney said "i regret not going to vietnam", wich is bs. nobody wanted to go, some did for there country. wich tells me mitt is full of crap. these days we need a military man running this country not a coward, wich mitt is. dont get me wrong i like ideas from both guys but i like mcain a little more. oh and mcain is against banning our little black rifles, rommney wants them gone.
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  #31  
Old 02-04-2008, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Technowizard View Post
Your post doesn't really make any sense to me. A vote for Ron Paul or anybody else doesn't effect Clinton at all! Its a primary.... you can only vote for your registered party! If you're a Republican, you WILL NOT get a ballot that even has Hillary's name on it!!! You will only get a list of Republican nominees. I would love to see the real presidential race between Ron Paul and psycho *****...
Exactly.

If you vote for somebody you don't agree with because you think you "should," you're allowing yourself to be manipulated. And you will always be manipulated once they know they can manipulate you.

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for his platform. It's a statement that candidates will need to come closer to his views to get your vote. That you won't just vote for any idiot that they put in front of you.
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  #32  
Old 02-04-2008, 6:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bluestaterebel View Post
as it looks right now, mccain and obama will get the nomination. if you think mccain can beat obama then go ahead and vote for paul, even though no one will get or care about your "protest notice". not to offend any of you but the overwhelming opinion of paul is he is a kook. so his voters will be seen as such. i dont agree with it but it is reality.

the question is which republican do we want to send to the general election.
mccain, in my opinion is headed for disaster. he can not debate to save his life. obama and even hillary can out debate him. he gets flustered and loses his composure and believe me the dems are going to come after him. just imagine a 5 fooot 9 72 year old mccain who looks more dead than alive on stage with obama and then can not articulate conservative values, mostly because he doesnt believe them.

we can not send mccain to the general election. this is why we need to vote for romney. california's vote is key this time. if mccain wins, nobody will care about your ron paul protest vote. the headlines will be: mccain is the nominee, and then our vote will again be irrelevant in the general as it always is.
You do understand the CA primary system, don't you? Whoever gets the highest statewide % of the vote will be labeled as "the winner" by the media. In the past, the media has also focused disproportionately on exit polls in large population centers (read left-leaning) in CA for their "real-time election coverage."

That doesn't really matter at all. Whether we're talking Romney, Paul, Huckabee, or McCain, there is one set of rules for the CA GOP primary:

Each congressional district has a certain number of delegates (3) that go to whoever wins that congressional district.

Hence Romney or Paul could come away with a significant number of delegates.
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  #33  
Old 02-04-2008, 7:02 PM
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My wife and I will be voting for Ron Paul.
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  #34  
Old 02-04-2008, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bluestaterebel View Post
as it looks right now, mccain and obama will get the nomination. if you think mccain can beat obama then go ahead and vote for paul, even though no one will get or care about your "protest notice". not to offend any of you but the overwhelming opinion of paul is he is a kook. so his voters will be seen as such. i dont agree with it but it is reality.

the question is which republican do we want to send to the general election.
mccain, in my opinion is headed for disaster. he can not debate to save his life. obama and even hillary can out debate him. he gets flustered and loses his composure and believe me the dems are going to come after him. just imagine a 5 fooot 9 72 year old mccain who looks more dead than alive on stage with obama and then can not articulate conservative values, mostly because he doesnt believe them.

we can not send mccain to the general election. this is why we need to vote for romney. california's vote is key this time. if mccain wins, nobody will care about your ron paul protest vote. the headlines will be: mccain is the nominee, and then our vote will again be irrelevant in the general as it always is.
the jist of the reason i made this thread.
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  #35  
Old 02-04-2008, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
You do understand the CA primary system, don't you? Whoever gets the highest statewide % of the vote will be labeled as "the winner" by the media. In the past, the media has also focused disproportionately on exit polls in large population centers (read left-leaning) in CA for their "real-time election coverage."

That doesn't really matter at all. Whether we're talking Romney, Paul, Huckabee, or McCain, there is one set of rules for the CA GOP primary:

Each congressional district has a certain number of delegates (3) that go to whoever wins that congressional district.

Hence Romney or Paul could come away with a significant number of delegates.
yes, i get that but i guess what i am saying is i dont like mccain and dont think he can win the general. he is the media favorite repub. even when romney wins in wyoming, nevada, or maine the media downplays it. if mccain had won those states we would not have heard the end of it.

i know that mccain and even paul will get delegates here in cali but it would hurt mccain if he didnt win california and the media cant ignore california like they can maine, wyoming, nevada etc.. it is close and romney needs every vote to win california.
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Since your myopic view is in concurrence with your cognizant lifespan on this planet, obviously less than 20 years, I will grant you a dispensation.

Figure that out and exercise your mind.....
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  #36  
Old 02-04-2008, 8:44 PM
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It is everyones right to vote for whom they choose to. I respect that.
Absolutely correct! I encourage anyone I know to vote, even though some of the folks I know vote differently from me. Voting is an important right - everyone should use it!

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But knowing that Hillary may get the nomination it scares me. I will not vote for Paul.
How in the world would your republican vote in the primaries have an impact on the republican vs. democrat vote for president? I don't understand your point.

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Yeah you guys are showin the republican party a thing or two by voting for him.
Absolutely! Keep in mind that while your individual vote doesn't matter, all campaigns have bean counters that gather statistics to gauge public opinion and that in turn drives the campaign.

For instance, two weeks ago, the universal health plan in CA dead a quiet death. Do you think it died for no reason? No, it died because public backlash was so strong - that it was strong enough to cause our representatives to change their minds! It's a glorified example of when our system works. So when folks wrote letters, called their representatives, not a single letter changed their minds - but all together they had a crucial impact.

So no, Ron Paul won't win but the message will be heard, and the leading candidates will take action.

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EDIT: guys i do appreciate it that this thread has remaind civil and no personall attacks on anyone has occrured. srry guys you did not change my mind. and no i'm not in lock step with the republican party. i just don't feel he has a chance.
please continue to keep this thread civil.
Just vote for whoever you want .
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  #37  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:16 PM
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Already voted for Ron Paul and got a few to support him too. As a side note, his message and platform is important. His message is powerful enough that all the other candidates are begining to say the same thing(even though it is a lie). With the chance of a brokered convention along with the chance for RP to take quite a few votes he will make an impact. Even if he is not the nominanee, he could hold on to enough of those votes to make his message heard.
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  #38  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:22 PM
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Bush '08!

Jpin...

Clinton: Two faced flip flopping fake robot. I can't believe she got this far. Apparently people didn't even bother to watch Sicko.

Guiliani: Bush and Cheney in a box. Good thing hes out.

McCain: Supported by Guiliani and the gun-rights Terminator. Bad choice of friends....

Obama: Democratic Family Guy.. just another ignorant anti-gun activist. It's sad how all the radio stations and music artists pretend to know politics, and support Obama because of his "great ideas, plan, and intentions", when we know its only because hes African American.

Ron Paul: The best we can hope for. Although hes not perfect and he may be radical in his non-intervention and reform policies. Anyone who the media would not cover or would hide and go against, has my vote.

This is my deep opinion. If I got some info wrong please tell me.
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  #39  
Old 02-05-2008, 6:16 AM
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Heading out to vote for RP in a few minutes...recent polls show Romney with a commanding lead in CA. Not that it would have changed my vote, but I don't want to see McCain win the nomination considering his stance on illegal immigration.
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  #40  
Old 02-05-2008, 6:46 AM
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I'm stepping out today to vote for Ron Paul. I've not discussed his final decision yet, but my Dad will probably pull the lever for Paul too.
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