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Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

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  #1  
Old 11-06-2013, 10:00 PM
bluegoose95401 bluegoose95401 is offline
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Default .223 loads in a .556

so i know this is probably beating a dead horse but after a half an hour of Google search and a brief search here on cal guns i cant find a straight forward answer with out all the .556 vs .223 filler that tends to take over when any one asks this so i figured id just ask and play it safe. i got a bunch of .223 and .556 brass from my buddies my re loader is set to reload .223 ( recipe is as follows .55 grain fmjbt 24 grains imr 4064). will this load be safe/ ok to use in .556 brass or should i be using a .556 specific load? can .223 loads be used in a .556 brass safely?

Last edited by bluegoose95401; 11-06-2013 at 11:01 PM..
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:08 PM
Divernhunter Divernhunter is offline
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You ususally have to back up max loads due to the thicker brass.
I have never used or heard of IMR4068 powder. If you mean 4064 I do not use it in my 223 loads so if it is max back up 1-2 grs and work up. If it is not a max load you will be fine.
Is that a simple enough answer?
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:01 PM
bluegoose95401 bluegoose95401 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
You ususally have to back up max loads due to the thicker brass.
I have never used or heard of IMR4068 powder. If you mean 4064 I do not use it in my 223 loads so if it is max back up 1-2 grs and work up. If it is not a max load you will be fine.
Is that a simple enough answer?
sry that's what i meant 4064. the lowest load is 23 grains and the max is 25.7 im loading them at 24 grains. yes that is a perfect simple answer thank you if any one has any other simple input to add please do
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:50 PM
Divernhunter Divernhunter is offline
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At 24grs you can load in any brass with any primer.
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  #5  
Old 11-07-2013, 3:19 AM
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5.56 is a red herring, when you reload this cartridge you are doing it as .223 no matter what brass you use. dies are all .223 and you need to not concern yourself with this. Just use safe data and load to whatever pressure is safe in YOUR rifle. Load data is always specified for .223. 5.56 is just the military designation and means nothing except for the fact that military 5.56 ammo is generally loaded hotter than commercial .223 ammo. Remember, you are loading .223 and 5.56 is just a confusing thing if you let it be.
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Old 11-07-2013, 4:50 AM
bluegoose95401 bluegoose95401 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffLinder View Post
5.56 is a red herring, when you reload this cartridge you are doing it as .223 no matter what brass you use. dies are all .223 and you need to not concern yourself with this. Just use safe data and load to whatever pressure is safe in YOUR rifle. Load data is always specified for .223. 5.56 is just the military designation and means nothing except for the fact that military 5.56 ammo is generally loaded hotter than commercial .223 ammo. Remember, you are loading .223 and 5.56 is just a confusing thing if you let it be.
there's just so much mixed info out therein internet land its hard to separate whats true from whats myth by people spreading things that they know nothing about kinda hard not to get get confused due to this another dumb question but one better asked than not where would i find the info on pressure ratings on a kit AR-15 and a mini 14
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Old 11-07-2013, 5:17 AM
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Don't go there, considering that you can't with IMR4064... Work it up, check primers, get a chrono.
Some info I found on Accurate 4064, and IMR 4064: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=843037

The following for M855 is for Heavy-barrels like the M16A2, but I believe M193 was originally for the pencil barrels M16-M16A1? (like some people buy with their 16"? The Vietnam era with a different twist-rate too with thinner barrels.) I have had no problems shooting even pulled (with marks) 55 grain projectiles out of my 20" 1:8 HBAR.
This spec is for 20" barrels, pulled from spec PDFs M855 OG:
3.7 Chamber pressure. The average chamber pressure of the
sample cartridges, conditioned at 70 + 2F shall not exceed
55,000 psi. Neither the chamber pressure of an individual sample
test cartridge nor the average chamber pressure plus three standard
deviations of chamber pressure shall exceed 61,000 psi.

M855 Amendment 4 states:
“3.6 Velocity. The average velocity of the cartridges when conditioned
at 70 degrees plus or minus 2 degrees Fahrenheit(F) shall be 3,020 feet per
second(fps) plus or minus 40 fps at 78 feet from the muzzle of the weapon.
The standard deviation of the velocity shall not exceed 40 fps.”

“3.7 Chamber pressure. The average chamber pressure of the sample
cartridges, conditioned at 70 degrees plus or minus 2 degrees F, shall not
exceed 58,700 psi. Neither the chamber pressure of an individual sample
test cartridge nor the average chamber pressure plus three standard
deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 64,700 psi."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
M193 appears to be:
3.6 Velocity. The average velocity of the cartridges,
conditioned at 700 + 2F, shall be 3000 feet per second (fps) plus
or minus 40 fps at ~8 feet from the muzzle of the weapon. The
standard deviation of the velocities shall not exceed 40 fps.

3.7.1 Measurement by copper-crush cylinder. The average chamber pressure... the sample cartridges, conditioned at 70 +/- 2F, shall not exceed 52,000 pounds per square inch (PSI). The average chamber pressure plus three standard deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 58,000 PSI.

3.7.2 Measurement by piezoelectric transducer. The average chamber pressure of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 70 + 2F, shall not exceed 55,000 PSI. The average chamber pressure plus three standard deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 61,000 PSI.
5.56mm Ball, M193 52,000psi 3250fps at 15' from muzzle

If the barrel is stamped NATO, then it is the current (for M855)... not old NATO spec (for M193) AFAIK.

If the barrel is stamped .223 (no NATO) then use .223 max pressure specs.
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Last edited by the86d; 11-07-2013 at 5:59 AM..
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Old 11-07-2013, 6:56 AM
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556 rifles have larger chambers. The larger the chamber, the lower the pressure. Not wanting any velocity loss, 556 rounds are loaded hotter. Hence, you should not use 556 rounds in 223 chambers.

556 brass is not necessarily thicker than 223. LC 556, for example, is the same as commercial. It all depends on head stamp. I have some 223 cases that weigh 103 grains. LC weighs 93 grains. Generally, the heavier the case the thicker the brass the higher the pressure is gonna be. So, if you load that 103gr case and use it in a 223 chamber, your starting load may also be your max.

Pay attention to these variables. It will keep you safe.
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Old 11-07-2013, 7:32 AM
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I didn't have an issue loading Federal .223 (Walmart 100pack bulk box) brass near M855 specs (with SS109s), but I did work up... slowly and checked for overpressure the whole way over the course of a few months (limited shooting time..). I used Varget, and started on the low-end.
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Old 11-07-2013, 5:18 PM
bluegoose95401 bluegoose95401 is offline
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ok so from what i have been reading its ok to load .556 and .223 brass the same ( same powder charge and projectile) as long as its not the max loads is that pretty much the overall rule of thumb
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Old 11-07-2013, 5:34 PM
Bigedski Bigedski is offline
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5.56 brass will handle .223 loads, what you DO NOT WANT TO DO is shoot 5.56 ammo in a .223 barrel, when you buy a barrel make sure its a 5.56 barrel.
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Old 11-07-2013, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigedski View Post
5.56 brass will handle .223 loads, what you DO NOT WANT TO DO is shoot 5.56 ammo in a .223 barrel, when you buy a barrel make sure its a 5.56 barrel.
my rifles are all chambered in .556 so i am not worried about that just about over/ under charging loads
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Old 11-08-2013, 5:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
At 24grs you can load in any brass with any primer.
Be carefull with Russian primers(copper colored) as they are soft.If a near max load is used,your firing pin may pierce primer.
As an example,my load is 24.5 of varget with a rem7 1/2 primer and l.c. brass.If i change only the primer ,the firing pin will pierce primer.
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Old 11-08-2013, 6:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highpower790 View Post
Be carefull with Russian primers(copper colored) as they are soft.If a near max load is used,your firing pin may pierce primer.
As an example,my load is 24.5 of varget with a rem7 1/2 primer and l.c. brass.If i change only the primer ,the firing pin will pierce primer.
i only use cci primers
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Old 11-08-2013, 8:20 PM
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rule of thumb is start 10-15% lighter in Military Brass. ladder from there.
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Old 11-08-2013, 8:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigedski View Post
5.56 brass will handle .223 loads, what you DO NOT WANT TO DO is shoot 5.56 ammo in a .223 barrel, when you buy a barrel make sure its a 5.56 barrel.
to be more specific, you don't want to shoot 5.56 in a .223 REMINGTON chamber.

5.56 is perfectly fine in .223 WYLDE.
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