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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 01-27-2008, 7:57 PM
medic707 medic707 is offline
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Default *Update* OLL assembly problem

Ok i just finished building my second OLL, its a Noveske and i used a stag LPK. As i was putting this one together i noticed that all the roll pins and hammer pins were goin in quite easily. when i built my 1st OLL (high standard also with a stag LPK) It took some force. Anyways did my function checks - everything works fine. So i properly clean and lube my rifle and wait for her maiden voyage.

First day at the range, I began with a 10/30 pmag and Prvi Partizan 55gr. All 10 rnds go bang, but bolt doesnt lock, mag doesnt drop free (mag has never gave me probs before), try again same results. I try a different mag, same results as with the pmag, repeat, same results. Thinking maybe the ammo is short stroking, I try some of my very limited federal xm193 , same results.

So I decided to clean and lube again. when i open the rifle up and start pokin around i notice some play in the bolt catch, insert mag and this happens




Now there is not A LOT of play in the bolt catch but noticably more than in my HS lower. Now im 100% sure that this is causing my bolt to not lock back. but whats causing this bolt catch problem and how do i fix it?
New bolt catch assembly? Or is the somewhat sloppier tolerances of this new lower screwing me?

Anyone have this happen or know how i can correct it?

Cliffs
-Built a new lower
-More play in bolt catch than other rifle
-Bolt doesnt lock back
-How do i fix?

Last edited by medic707; 02-01-2008 at 7:07 PM..
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2008, 8:24 PM
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same thing with my stag lpk! but i had a spare bolt catch from a rra lpf from my first build because i had swapped that one out to a tac catch.
also the detent pins, take down pin, and pivot pins didnt work well either. swapped those out to RRA as well.

short answer, a lot of stag parts are not mil-spec!

ill never use stag lpk's again. RRA lpks seem to be of better quality.
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  #3  
Old 01-28-2008, 8:08 AM
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Are you absolutely positive that when you installed the bolt catch, you didn't leave out the B.C. spring AND/OR plunger? I've seen it happen, and usually the plunger is the missing culprit. Check it out. BTW, most LPK's are made by the same guys (forgery), but are packaged differently. I've never seen a PART from the set actually cause problems with proper functioning of weapon systems. Remember: it is VERY easy to get certain parts (roll pins, springs, etc.) confused and they end up getting installed in the wrong places, thus some may fit "tighter" or "easier." Hope that helps 'ya!

Last edited by supersonic; 01-28-2008 at 8:14 AM..
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  #4  
Old 01-28-2008, 9:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supersonic View Post
Are you absolutely positive that when you installed the bolt catch, you didn't leave out the B.C. spring AND/OR plunger? I've seen it happen, and usually the plunger is the missing culprit. Check it out. BTW, most LPK's are made by the same guys (forgery), but are packaged differently. I've never seen a PART from the set actually cause problems with proper functioning of weapon systems. Remember: it is VERY easy to get certain parts (roll pins, springs, etc.) confused and they end up getting installed in the wrong places, thus some may fit "tighter" or "easier." Hope that helps 'ya!
A big NEGATIVE there, the plunger keeps the bolt catch down! not up, and has nothing do to with what the problem is in that pic that the OP posted.
all that is, is a out of spec bolt catch, just like mine was.
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medic707 View Post
Ok i just finished building my second OLL, its a Noveske and i used a stag LPK. As i was putting this one together i noticed that all the roll pins and hammer pins were goin in quite easily. when i built my 1st OLL (high standard also with a stag LPK) It took some force. Anyways did my function checks - everything works fine. So i properly clean and lube my rifle and wait for her maiden voyage.

First day at the range, I began with a 10/30 pmag and Prvi Partizan 55gr. All 10 rnds go bang, but bolt doesnt lock, mag doesnt drop free (mag has never gave me probs before), try again same results. I try a different mag, same results as with the pmag, repeat, same results. Thinking maybe the ammo is short stroking, I try some of my very limited federal xm193 , same results.

So I decided to clean and lube again. when i open the rifle up and start pokin around i notice some play in the bolt catch, insert mag and this happens




Now there is not A LOT of play in the bolt catch but noticably more than in my HS lower. Now im 100% sure that this is causing my bolt to not lock back. but whats causing this bolt catch problem and how do i fix it?
New bolt catch assembly? Or is the somewhat sloppier tolerances of this new lower screwing me?

Anyone have this happen or know how i can correct it?

Cliffs
-Built a new lower
-More play in bolt catch than other rifle
-Bolt doesnt lock back
-How do i fix?
PM sent.......................
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  #6  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supersonic View Post
Are you absolutely positive that when you installed the bolt catch, you didn't leave out the B.C. spring AND/OR plunger? I've seen it happen, and usually the plunger is the missing culprit. Check it out. BTW, most LPK's are made by the same guys (forgery), but are packaged differently. I've never seen a PART from the set actually cause problems with proper functioning of weapon systems. Remember: it is VERY easy to get certain parts (roll pins, springs, etc.) confused and they end up getting installed in the wrong places, thus some may fit "tighter" or "easier." Hope that helps 'ya!
Thanks got your PM, I was pretty sure all the part to the bolt catch assembly were the correct parts and installed but pounded out the roll pin and checked to make sure i didnt forget anything or use the disconnector spring instead. But everything was installed properly.
It seems like either the little finger part that rests on the follower is too short or the little bit of play (by play i mean i can move the bolt catch maybe 1/16 of an inch forward toward the mag and back toward the hammer). And when i push it back the bolt catch slips off the follower.
Also dont know if it would matter much but it seems like the roll pin might be a little bit shorter than it should, it spans the distance but looks like it might be shorter than my other lowers roll pin
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:45 AM
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Looks like the tang on the bolt catch is too short. Replace the cheapest parts first and go from there. Get another bolt catch and compare it with yours. If they are the same then the receiver is suspect.
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  #8  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medic707 View Post
It seems like either the little finger part that rests on the follower is too short or the little bit of play (by play i mean i can move the bolt catch maybe 1/16 of an inch forward toward the mag and back toward the hammer). And when i push it back the bolt catch slips off the follower.
Also dont know if it would matter much but it seems like the roll pin might be a little bit shorter than it should, it spans the distance but looks like it might be shorter than my other lowers roll pin
I don't personally think the issue has anything to do with your roll pins. I think you've hit the nail on the head in your earlier posts - it's either:

1) The "finger" extension is too short on your bolt catch part

or

2) Your receiver is slightly out of spec or sloppy, positioning the magwell too far forward to allow the follower to catch the bolt stop

The only thing I can think of is for you to try another bolt stop from another LPK and see if that solves the problem.

Turby
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:58 AM
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I will second Turbinator's assessment. Try another bolt catch.
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Old 01-28-2008, 2:27 PM
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I tend to agree with the possibility that your lower receiver is a "little off", thereby causing the B.C. from properly engaging your mag follower, because I compared 2 of my lower builds to your pics, & they are the exact same in regards to the length of the B.C.'s "finger." When you said "play," I assumed you meant in the lateral sense (which can cause the problems you were having while firing = loose B.C. = bolt staying open OR bolt closing after every shot depending on recoil & how you are shouldering your rifle). The fore & aft play is completely normal & has nothing to do with your problem. Definitely start the cheapest way possible. By that I mean go from the :bottom up" (i.e. small parts first). Too bad we're not closer, as I could either fix your problem in an instant (I do all the builds for my associates & their customers with a 0% failure rate to date!!/ & I have a CRATE full of parts), or I would have to give you the bad news about your lower. In that case, you'd probably have a warranty return on your hands. Do the best that you can & report back to me when you find something out!

Last edited by supersonic; 01-28-2008 at 2:30 PM..
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  #11  
Old 01-28-2008, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by supersonic View Post
I have a CRATE full of parts
Maybe you can send him a bolt catch replacement, free of charge?

Turby
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Old 01-28-2008, 5:47 PM
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Thanks guys for all your input and help i got a new bolt catch assembly on its way. Im just hopin that corrects the problem, I really dont want my lower to be out of spec and have to deal sending it back
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Old 01-28-2008, 7:21 PM
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Cool Not so fast Medic....

When your firing, I assume it's one round at a time. At first I would suspect ammunition. With a mag installed and no bullets can you draw back the handle and the bolt lock up when you release??? If this is so then maybe you need to check the butt stock spring and assembly for problems. If you have another Ar lower set up see if the spring tention is tighter on one or the other. It might keep you from spending to much.
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Old 01-28-2008, 8:46 PM
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Maybe you can send him a bolt catch replacement, free of charge?

Turby
It pretty much sounds like he beat me to it.
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Old 01-28-2008, 9:16 PM
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Is it me or has there been a drop in the quality of CMT/Stag products as of late? I remember back in the day(about a 2 months ago) they were highly recommended pieces of kit.
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Old 01-29-2008, 4:42 AM
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Yes, there have been reports of quality concerns with Stag's uppers as of late. As far as parts kits, the only thing I've seen are kits that come with missing and/or extra parts. My theory is that (since the OLL thing took off- especially), they have been inundated with so many orders that they go into "hyperdrive-autopilot". Then that's where mistakes get overlooked and sub-par products go out the door unnoticed.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by supersonic View Post
It pretty much sounds like he beat me to it.
Ok, cool deal. While you're at it, I'll take an extra completely built OLL made from your crate o' parts.

Turby
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Old 01-29-2008, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunsrruss View Post
When your firing, I assume it's one round at a time. At first I would suspect ammunition. With a mag installed and no bullets can you draw back the handle and the bolt lock up when you release??? If this is so then maybe you need to check the butt stock spring and assembly for problems. If you have another Ar lower set up see if the spring tention is tighter on one or the other. It might keep you from spending to much.
Yeah i tried a couple different types of ammo, and with the pmag i would say 9/10 times the bolt wont catch with an empty mag and pulling the charge handle. The bushy 10/20 and cproducts 10/10's i have i would say it happens half the time. And yes there is alittle bit more play (forward toward the mag and back toword the hammer) than my other AR. So im 90% sure its either an out of spec bolt catch or lower. Was just hopin for alittle reassurance it wasnt the lower.

If im not mistaken i have the newer version of the noveske (safe/semi) roll marks, which correct me if im wrong is made by LAR. Anyone else have or hear of any problems with out of spec lowers?
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Old 01-29-2008, 2:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
Ok, cool deal. While you're at it, I'll take an extra completely built OLL made from your crate o' parts.

Turby
LOL, but I don't think you'll be happy with a AR-15 made of mix/match/unknown parts. For my price on labor & parts, you could buy a brand new Model 1 or Stag for about $100-$250 more!!!
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Old 01-29-2008, 4:02 PM
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This is my bolt catch I installed on my Noveske lower. It's also from a Stag LPK...
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Old 01-29-2008, 6:14 PM
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Here are my lowers...don't know if it helps or not.
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File Type: jpg gun 002.jpg (32.6 KB, 27 views)
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Old 01-29-2008, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuuze View Post
This is my bolt catch I installed on my Noveske lower. It's also from a Stag LPK...
Can't tell from the angle of the pic whether or not the "finger" is of the correct length. But it's pretty rare that they are not. They all come out of the same ""mold."
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Old 02-01-2008, 7:31 PM
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Update....
Well i got my new bolt catch assembly installed and so far everything is functioning 100%, but i still havent fired her so we will see but im pretty happy so far. Thanks for all your help again
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Old 02-02-2008, 2:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medic707 View Post
Update....
Well i got my new bolt catch assembly installed and so far everything is functioning 100%, but i still havent fired her so we will see but im pretty happy so far. Thanks for all your help again
If it DOESN'T have any malfunctions When firing, do 2 things. First, if you have a pair of dial calipers, measure & compare the lengths of the engaging side of B.C. ("finger"), and if they are different, let me know the measurement of the "new" one vs. the "old" one. Also, (and/or if you don't have any calipers) if, indeed the "bad" one is shorter, look very closely to see if there is a "chip" or "break" look to the edge (will look like grainy, bare steel). Thanks.
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:17 PM
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Sounds like you fixed the problem.
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