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  #1  
Old 10-16-2013, 11:39 AM
69mtbspdfrk 69mtbspdfrk is offline
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Default Build Parties In Sacramento, CA. and The DOJ/ATF

Howdy to all and thanks for reading or replying back to this thread. Let me start by saying. I'm a army vet and live just north of downtown Sacramento. I have been helping people with there builds on ar10 as well as ar15's. So just the past week or so the DOJ/ATF has shall I say raided several local machine shops for doing so called illegal builds. All I can find about being legal and illegal is through the web or this site and I also called a local gun club. My concern is there saying using a cnc machine is against the law. Fine where's the law state this at. After all said and done I figured let me get someone from the DOJ/ATF to talk to me. One week later and a bunch of call this number no call this and so on. I got a nice gentlemen to go ahead and come out to my place and learn how I hold a build party. I cant wait he is coordinating with his peps and getting back to me. I feel I should invite any and all to this meeting to finally get some does and don't clarified. Again thanks Doug
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Old 10-16-2013, 2:16 PM
69mtbspdfrk 69mtbspdfrk is offline
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So im suppose to keep doing build parties and hope that they dont come raid my home
I dont like to feel like someone is out to get me. Been there before in the army lol. If there is so much Grey area why aren't they making it more clear I guess. Thanks foe the reply
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  #3  
Old 10-16-2013, 4:55 PM
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I think its a great idea. the problem is the ambiguity in the law, so a WRITTEN decision you are doing thing legally is a great thing. On the converse side, if you invite him in and he says NO, thats not ok, so long as someone is not building their own at the time, you should get at worst a warning. This keeps them out of your home and on the right side of the grey area
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Old 10-16-2013, 6:32 PM
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Do you have the money to fight them if they come for your shop? Even if your actions are legal and they tell you they aren't, now you have to pay to prove you are in the right.

They will never give you written approval for what you are doing...so yes, if you want to keep your build parties going you must be ready for them to raid your home and you must be ready to fight and prove your actions are legal.
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Old 10-16-2013, 6:43 PM
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Wow so they really are able to write there own laws, amazing what ever happened to never mind. We all know the we the people for the people speech. I still stand for my country and its freedom and will fight for it till I die period. Wish me luck hehe :To be continued
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Old 10-16-2013, 7:19 PM
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video is your friend if they come by. I also imagine there will be some written statement coming out soon against the CNC build parties.
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Old 10-16-2013, 7:28 PM
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I'm shocked you invited the wolf into the hen house..

that said the way I understand the CNC isssue is the person using the CNC machine did not write the code. You did.

So IMO the person building the Lower would have also had to write the code? Some of the Code? I see this as a legitimate work around. But I'm no Lawyer and this is pure speculation.


Hopefully someone else will weigh in
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2013, 11:23 AM
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Okay so I've thought about this last night and wondered what if I invited my local kcra 3 news in on this. (A) would it bring to the public what the aka as one person put wolf are doing with our freedom of rights. (B) Or add fuel to the fire. I already plan on having multiple people there for witness kinda thing. BTW I was just informed that Dr.Death was shut down not because of builds but possible things of nature that make them go shale I say unnoticed when fired. Anyway thanks to all for looking and replying
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Old 10-17-2013, 1:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69mtbspdfrk View Post
Okay so I've thought about this last night and wondered what if I invited my local kcra 3 news in on this. (A) would it bring to the public what the aka as one person put wolf are doing with our freedom of rights. (B) Or add fuel to the fire. I already plan on having multiple people there for witness kinda thing. BTW I was just informed that Dr.Death was shut down not because of builds but possible things of nature that make them go shale I say unnoticed when fired. Anyway thanks to all for looking and replying
I find it hard to believe hes going to jeopardize himself doing that. when you have a legit business and high demand theres way too much risk with minimal reward. that may have been cadoj excuse but I would like to think he isnt that dumb.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2013, 4:25 PM
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Do not invite the media. Even if the local media is sympathetic, the video will be used by anti-2A people to lobby for a change in the laws.

You are brave to invite the DOJ/ATF to your home. I hope you get good guidance from them. Also bear in mind that it is not the officers that decide what the interpretation of the laws are, nor do they make the decision to prosecute. It is the DA and Federal Prosecutors make that decision.

The officers could give you bad advice inadvertently which you could later be prosecuted for following. I can't tell you how many times a LEO has given me bad advice. They are human, just like you or I.

IMO, you would be best off by consulting with a lawyer that specializes in 2A laws.
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2013, 10:35 AM
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I can see it now. News report "How private citizens are using a loophole to create thousands of Assault Weapons without the government knowing, coming up at 6pm". No way in hell would I invite the media. You're handing them all they need to twist it to fit their agenda.
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2013, 1:15 PM
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Does this mean i should give up on my AK build? With all this crap going on, I understand the skepticism of hosting a build party. but what about an individual one on one deal?
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  #13  
Old 10-19-2013, 3:10 PM
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There are people on this forum who offer those services. However it isn't free like some build parties
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  #14  
Old 10-19-2013, 6:18 PM
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So now I'M feeling like i have be trade my fellow peps. It was not meant to betray anybody that wants to do builds. Only to get the truth out about covering my *** on helping peps out. I hear you guys and am thankful you helped make my mind up. I will not involve the media but I sure wish I shall I say stick it to theme. I again don't like these fake *** oops type of peps as much as you all do. Believe me wish I could push a reset the government button.
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Old 10-19-2013, 6:30 PM
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Be safe & have fun!

Just remember you live in ground zero, the glorious State Capitol of California!!
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  #16  
Old 10-19-2013, 6:50 PM
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Tagged. I hope all goes well and things are settled one way or the other! If it goes in favor of being able to complete them, great. If it goes against, lawsuit!
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  #17  
Old 10-19-2013, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69mtbspdfrk View Post
Believe me wish I could push a reset the government button.
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  #18  
Old 10-19-2013, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osis32 View Post
There are people on this forum who offer those services. However it isn't free like some build parties
I wouldn't expect it to be free. Can anyone point me in the right direction to someone who offers those services?
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  #19  
Old 10-20-2013, 8:12 PM
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check out the gunsmithing forum or make a thread there. I dont know of any in sacramento. the bay area however I know a few.
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  #20  
Old 10-20-2013, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69mtbspdfrk View Post
BTW I was just informed that Dr.Death was shut down not because of builds but possible things of nature that make them go shale I say unnoticed when fired.
This sounds like pure nonsense to me. If Dr. Death was in any way involved in manufacturing suppressors, he wouldn't have just been shut-down: he would be sitting in jail right now awaiting prosecution.
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  #21  
Old 10-21-2013, 11:27 AM
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Curious to see how this turns out!
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  #22  
Old 10-21-2013, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
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check out the gunsmithing forum or make a thread there. I dont know of any in sacramento. the bay area however I know a few.
Pm sent
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  #23  
Old 10-22-2013, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69mtbspdfrk View Post
Howdy to all and thanks for reading or replying back to this thread. Let me start by saying. I'm a army vet and live just north of downtown Sacramento. I have been helping people with there builds on ar10 as well as ar15's. So just the past week or so the DOJ/ATF has shall I say raided several local machine shops for doing so called illegal builds. All I can find about being legal and illegal is through the web or this site and I also called a local gun club. My concern is there saying using a cnc machine is against the law. Fine where's the law state this at. After all said and done I figured let me get someone from the DOJ/ATF to talk to me. One week later and a bunch of call this number no call this and so on. I got a nice gentlemen to go ahead and come out to my place and learn how I hold a build party. I cant wait he is coordinating with his peps and getting back to me. I feel I should invite any and all to this meeting to finally get some does and don't clarified. Again thanks Doug
Don't know if the DOJ/ATF has dropped by, yet. Suggest if they do, you present the issue as, "this is what I intend to do", rather than "watch us do this", or "this is what we do."Provide a written outline of the process. Ask them to approve, or point out potential changes to ensure compliance.

Good luck.
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  #24  
Old 10-23-2013, 2:21 PM
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:05 PM
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Interesting so the doj hates ppl making there own guns I thought they liked there assult weapons with high cap clips. Op I hope it goes well and stay safe but don't give up any freedom for it.

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  #26  
Old 10-26-2013, 6:47 AM
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UPDATE!!! received call from Michael from sac ATF. What is legal is 80% done at your own home not at someone else's home. I can't find law on this, but I was also told word for word he or they have read my post on here. I have postponed my builds till I get the forms he has sent me. And also have a meeting 1st week of Nov at there office.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:35 AM
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Default 80 percenters

I'm a new 07 and have been watching this unfold and I think I can shed some light on whats going on here. Manufacturing, selling, or buying an 80 percenter is not illegal. Selling an 80 and finishing at the same time IS illegal. At that point in time you are supplying someone an unregistered weapon. The people I have heard that got a visit, were doing just that. We used to sell Billet Uppers and 7.62 by 39 BCG's to the guy on Florin road and I stopped because I knew a world of hurt was coming down. Loading your own lower into a CNC and pushing the green button IS NOT making your own gun. That's someone else program, not yours. That's why I believe the 80 percent finishing routine will be limited to Bridgeports. Everyone we have dealt with during the licensing process, ATF, and Cal DOJ have been very helpful and professional. The laws seem pretty common sense to me.
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Old 10-27-2013, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by becciboo View Post
Why make it clear when there is an agency that can make up and enforce their own laws? Its one of those things where you need to make the personal decision as to whether you want to be right or free. Is it worth it to you?

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Old 10-28-2013, 6:16 PM
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Once it was realized the California Department of Justice (CA DOJ) had not updated the "Kasler list" in the five years after the Harrott decision, many Californians found they could legally purchase and possess AR and AK rifles not yet officially identified as "series" members. As of February 2006, over 10,000 "off-list" receivers (frames) for such rifles have been legally imported to, and purchased within, California. The only requirement for these receivers are that the combination of make and model is not explicitly listed as banned, and as long as the owner does not add certain "characteristic features" turning the firearm into an assault weapon (i.e. pistol grip, flash suppressor, etc.). These characteristic features can be used, however, if a nondetachable 10-round (or less) magazine, conforming in the converse to the California Code of Regulations §5469, formerly §978.20, definition of detachable magazine,[36] is affixed to such "off-list" rifles. These off-list rifles can also be used without a pistol grip, folding stock or flash hider, in which case it is legal to own and use them with detachable magazines. (California Code of Regulations §978.20 was changed without regulatory effect renumbering §978.20 to §5469 filed 6-28-2006)
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Old 10-28-2013, 6:22 PM
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Found that on wiki but if you guys and gals can find me anything on law written for build parties would be great. I'm looking for anything really on this subject. Also it is true they are working with me on this but not giving me any direction except for getting a FFL license and meeting with theme. BTW I have both a bridgeport manuel mill. And a CNC that is a little different than your shop CNCs Look it up PROTRAK anybody able to write own program
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  #31  
Old 12-05-2013, 4:29 PM
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Seems like the solution is to have a classroom environment, and a tool rental.
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Old 12-05-2013, 4:31 PM
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And for CNC, I would either use an open source script off the internet that happens to work for your mill, or have each student learn how to write one, and then execute their own script.
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  #33  
Old 01-02-2014, 12:30 AM
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The ATF is using intimidation to shut down the CNC build parties. AFAIK not a single person has been charged for running one. The order probably came down from Obama.
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  #34  
Old 01-22-2014, 3:24 PM
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Default Build Parties In Sacramento, CA. and The DOJ/ATF

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Last edited by XxWoodsHunterxX; 01-22-2014 at 3:27 PM..
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  #35  
Old 01-22-2014, 3:55 PM
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Good luck. Video tape everything and build the 80 for yourself.

Not to be negative,
It's a long video, but man.....

http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc
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  #36  
Old 01-24-2014, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpgnr24k View Post
Good luck. Video tape everything and build the 80 for yourself.

Not to be negative,
It's a long video, but man.....

http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc
Every citizen needs to take a little time to watch this classroom lecture. Simply amazing. In a person's declaration of innocence to the policy should they inject a little hyperbole in their excited speech, it can be used to convict. Also startling is how the police are legally prohibited from using your exculpatory comments in court; meaning stupid to say anything. They can use what you say as misinterpreted fact, and prohibited to use comments to prove you are free.

With this information, only a moron would even open his mouth to cough.

THANK YOU for sharing this law school lecture.

-NordicDave
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