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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-22-2008, 1:19 PM
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Default What's this about a gunshow loophole?

I had lunch with a friend who said he had heard something on the news about a gunshow loophole here in Kali that allowed mentally ill people to get firearms without a background check.

Anyone heard anything about this? Neither the "loophole" or anyone saying that there was.

The only thing I can think of would be FTF transfers of C&R rifles if the buyer lied to the seller when asked if they were safe and sane.
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Old 01-22-2008, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savasyn View Post
I had lunch with a friend who said he had heard something on the news about a gunshow loophole here in Kali that allowed mentally ill people to get firearms without a background check.

Anyone heard anything about this? Neither the "loophole" or anyone saying that there was.

The only thing I can think of would be FTF transfers of C&R rifles if the buyer lied to the seller when asked if they were safe and sane.
I would suspect BS
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  #3  
Old 01-22-2008, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
heard something on the news...
Now really...You must be smarter than that...
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  #4  
Old 01-22-2008, 1:43 PM
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I'm smart enough to know that a bunch of idiots yakking on the news gets a lot of sheep riled up about things that don't really exist. You'll note that we have an AW ban in this state and there was no real threat there. .50cal, same problem.
There doesn't need to be a real threat for the morons to create a law banning more stuff.
I'll guess from your responses that you haven't heard anything about what I asked originally.
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Old 01-22-2008, 1:47 PM
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It's nonsense. And has absolutely no bearing on California where all legal sales have to go through an FFL of some type.

Quote:
The "Gun show loophole" is a term coined to describe the legal sale of firearms between private individuals at gun shows in states where this is legal. When these sales take place at a gun show, some perceive a "loophole" in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), although these laws have never applied to individual-to-individual sales of personal firearms. United States federal law requires persons engaged in interstate firearm commerce, or who are in the business of selling firearms, to hold a Federal Firearms License and to perform checks prior to transferring a firearm, but there is an exemption for private sales by individuals who are "not engaged in the business" of selling firearms, or who only make "occasional" sales. Unlicensed private sellers are permitted by law to sell privately-owned guns at gun shows, or at private locations, in 24 states (as of 1998)
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Old 01-22-2008, 1:57 PM
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Got it. Thank you!
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  #7  
Old 01-22-2008, 2:08 PM
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There is no gun show loophole. It's a fabrication of the media. It's actually more of a pain in the arse to buy a gun at a gun show than at a gun shop.
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Old 01-22-2008, 2:15 PM
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It's actually more of a pain in the arse to buy a gun at a gun show than at a gun shop.
Correct!
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  #9  
Old 01-22-2008, 2:59 PM
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What the media calls the "gun show loophole" is really a private party sales loophole, but that doesn't sound as evil, suggesting that people may be able to sell their private property without government intervention.

In California, it only applies to long guns over 50 years old. In some other parts of the US, it covers garage sales, newspaper ads, online sales, and yes, people who carried their personal guns to a gun show to sell as private individuals.

Most people are unaware of this - they know there's a "gun show loophole" because the media told them so, but have no idea what it means.
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Old 01-22-2008, 3:03 PM
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I heard something about many people being dumb enough to believe everything that they (mis-hear). Come on, why would you even think that this could be true?
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  #11  
Old 01-22-2008, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by maxicon View Post
What the media calls the “gun show loophole” is really a private party sales loophole, but that doesn’t sound as evil, suggesting that people may be able to sell their private property without government intervention.
Exactly! The Private-Property “Loophole”
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  #12  
Old 01-22-2008, 3:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
I heard something about many people being dumb enough to believe everything that they (mis-hear). Come on, why would you even think that this could be true?
The Brady Bunch talk about the Gun Show Loophole all the time. It MUST be true. Besides, if you tell a lie often enough, it can become reality (ask the Clintons). Unfortunately, we live in a society where the majority seems to have SFB, especially when it comes to firearms.
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  #13  
Old 01-22-2008, 5:07 PM
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so at a gun show, private citizen JOE is selling a .44 magnum revolver.

private citizen BOB needs to PPT this thing?

i never bought a firearm at a "gun show" before...
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  #14  
Old 01-22-2008, 5:30 PM
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Yes, in California, the handgun must go through a licensed dealer. It would be otherwise “illegal” for Joe to sell it.
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Old 01-22-2008, 5:48 PM
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Brady Bunch keeps promoting the "gunshow loophole" as a scare tactic.

I just read a book "Balance of Power" (2005) by Patterson (forgot his first and middle name, but he is on Brady's wagon and works for them I believe). I really did not want to keep reading it after about 10 pages because it is on the fairy tale side, but then I thought it would be interesting to know how the enemy uses disinformation.
Just about any anti-gunner is exposed to several key phrases, which they believe are true, because they have been fed those lines for some time, i .e.:

"gunshow loophole"

"pistol grips can be used to spray bullets from the hip" (yup, it was in that book, now I know where Allison got it)

"sportsmen do not need a semi-auto, semi-autoguns are only used to kill people" (I don't remember the exact quote but it was there)

".50 BMG round will bring down an airplane" (wonder where 60 minutes got that line)

"80 people a day die because of guns"

"vendors sell full auto parts for semi-autos at gun shows"

and other bull.
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Old 01-22-2008, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ldivinag View Post
so at a gun show, private citizen JOE is selling a .44 magnum revolver.

private citizen BOB needs to PPT this thing?

i never bought a firearm at a "gun show" before...
Not only that, but then you still need to wait 10 days. And where is the gunshow vendor located? Usually hours or more drive from you, so now you need a local trasfer dealer, plus shipping and transfer costs, etc. etc.
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Old 01-22-2008, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savasyn View Post
I had lunch with a friend who said he had heard something on the news about a gunshow loophole here in Kali that allowed mentally ill people to get firearms without a background check.

Anyone heard anything about this? Neither the "loophole" or anyone saying that there was.

The only thing I can think of would be FTF transfers of C&R rifles if the buyer lied to the seller when asked if they were safe and sane.
Virginia Tech survivors protest
They want law to prevent criminals, mental patients from buying arms at gun shows
Kristen Gelineau, Associated Press

Tuesday, January 22, 2008

(01-22) 04:00 PST Richmond, Va. --

Survivors and families of the victims of the Virginia Tech shootings and gun rights advocates faced off Monday over legislation that would prevent criminals and the mentally ill from buying firearms at gun shows.

About 100 supporters of the state measure lay on the Capitol lawn to symbolize victims of gun violence and about 200 opponents stood nearby, holding signs that read, "Here Lie Disarmed Victims."

At one point, Jeff Knox, director of operations of the Manassas-based Firearms Coalition, approached survivor Colin Goddard and said students could have stopped student Seung-Hui Cho's rampage if they had been allowed to carry guns on campus.

"I would have stopped him," Knox said. "Because when I went to school, I carried a gun. It was legal."

Goddard, a Virginia Tech senior who was shot four times in the April 16 massacre, was taken aback, then said: "I feel sorry for you - the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation.

"You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this, and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things," he said, saying that he put his full trust in the police to protect society.

At a state Senate committee hearing on the bill earlier Monday, supporters, many wearing ribbons in Virginia Tech's colors of maroon and orange, outnumbered opponents, who sported buttons reading "Guns Save Lives" by about 3 to 1.

The legislation would require unlicensed sellers at gun shows to run criminal background checks on buyers. The checks now are required only of federally licensed gun dealers.

Cho, who killed 32 people at Virginia Tech before committing suicide, passed a background check and bought one gun from a store and a second online despite having been deemed mentally defective by a Virginia court. Gov. Timothy Kaine has since signed an executive order requiring that anyone ordered by a court to get mental health treatment be added to a state police database of people prohibited from buying guns.

Gun rights advocates said the disputed legislation would burden law-abiding citizens and gun show promoters. They also noted that Cho did not buy his weapons at a gun show, but supporters said that does not matter. The idea, they said, is to reduce the possibility of similar tragedies.

A committee vote on the measure will occur Wednesday, the panel's chairman said.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg.../MNFKUJ5KH.DTL

This article appeared on page A - 4 of the San Francisco Chronicle
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Old 01-22-2008, 8:33 PM
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I saw a report on the national news about the "Black Powder Loop Hole." Apparently a college student was found on a campus with a musket. Keep your eyes open for this new slogan.
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Old 01-22-2008, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
It's nonsense. And has absolutely no bearing on California where all legal sales have to go through an FFL of some type.
Except for 50+ year old long guns.
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