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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 10-08-2013, 7:59 AM
Raptor3000 Raptor3000 is offline
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Default PTAC 16" M4 1:7" 5.56 NATO SS12G2 Upper

Hi Guys,

Are these uppers inferior than the PSA ones? I believe these have melonite finish instead of chrome line bores?

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...m_medium=email

thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2013, 8:29 AM
d4v0s d4v0s is offline
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Inferior is a strong word. Its nowhere near as nice as their Wilson 1:8 stainless barrels, or the FN CHF bbl.

I will say that the upper and handguard are GTG, if it was me I would not go with the 4140 for one reason, lack of a chrome chamber. Look up the m16s from the Vietnam era for an good reason for chrome chambers and bores.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2013, 8:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d4v0s View Post
.
if it was me I would not go with the 4140 for one reason, lack of a chrome chamber. Look up the m16s from the Vietnam era for an good reason for chrome chambers and bores.
That barrel has a melonite treatment, many (including me) prefer melonite to CL. Melonite gives you the benefits of CL, but without potentially negatively affecting accuracy.

The Vietnam era M16s had a host of problems, including the wrong powder in the ammo, cleaning kits were not initially issued (plus they were FA).
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Old 10-08-2013, 9:07 AM
d4v0s d4v0s is offline
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While melonite is a great process, and in many ways superior to chrome lining, I still wouldn't go with the 4140 steel.

I believe noveske even uses melonite treating. But the reason you see it on this upper is its the cheaper route to go for the cheaper barrel offered by PSA.
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2013, 9:35 AM
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Realistically speaking, most people won't wear a barrel out; let alone push one to failure. For most end users, that barrel is fine. Even if the OP wants to switch barrels out down the road, he still has decent components in that upper for the price.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2013, 10:52 AM
d4v0s d4v0s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkangel View Post
Realistically speaking, most people won't wear a barrel out; let alone push one to failure. For most end users, that barrel is fine. Even if the OP wants to switch barrels out down the road, he still has decent components in that upper for the price.
Very true, and like you said a barrel upgrade down the road is easy to do. Especially if tastes change and he wants to try a 14.5 or 20" match barrel.

Last week I ordered the PSA 16" stainless upper with PSA 13.5" free float and a bolt carrier for 479. I would still hold out for a PSA daily deal that might net you a better barrel right out of the box though.
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2013, 2:03 PM
Raptor3000 Raptor3000 is offline
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is this a good deal?
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ng-handle.html

what were these selling for before the panic?

thanks
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2013, 3:00 PM
Pupulepeter Pupulepeter is offline
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$350. It's a great deal.
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2013, 3:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor3000 View Post
is this a good deal?
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ng-handle.html

what were these selling for before the panic?

thanks
That is a good upper, I would advise reading up on carbine versus midlength gas systems. Midlength gas systems recoil less and should be considered if you will ever be shooting competition or rifle/3 gun matches. I do not ever consider carbine length gas systems on any of my builds. (that upper is carbine length gas system).

Then read up and check out different length handguards when installed on rifles.. My favorites lately are 10-12" free float tubes of the smallest diameter (such as the previous upper you posted which has a ssg12 free float handguard that measures 1.2" in diameter.) I also really like the look of the 13.5" handguards on a 16 inch barrel.

I think you must decide on a few different barrel profiles and lengths that you want, and then keep an eye out for a good upper.

Such as, 16" midlength CFH, BFH, or Stainless upper. 1:7 or 1:8 twist with free float hanguards. Then start looking for what you want.

Having clear goals for this rifle will also help us to provide you good information that will meet your needs. What is the intended purpose of the build?
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2013, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkangel View Post
That barrel has a melonite treatment, many (including me) prefer melonite to CL. Melonite gives you the benefits of CL, but without potentially negatively affecting accuracy.
Listen and learn, son.

1. Melonite does not offer the chamber lubricity that chroming does.

2. On an M4 w/non-free-floated bbl and not a match bbl and not using match ammo
even a more than ordinary shooter will not notice chrome vs non-chrome differentiation.
Having a real good match bbl with all the rest of the above, plus some shooting ability,
might possibly be noticed to those with real shooting ability.

3. Uncle Sugar still chooses chrome for a reason. The Cool Kidz with UTG/Airsoft accessories
and not enough budget to pay for a chrome-lined bbl are the ones that think its good and
believe the vendor's explanation for cheaping out.
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2013, 4:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor3000 View Post
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...ng-handle.html

what were these selling for before the panic?
They were selling the carbine length & mid-length "classic" uppers for $299 back in Sept - early Dec of last year, right before the panic started. I know because I bought 3 of them at different times (one was during their BF sale and was $259), and I still have the orders in my account history on their website showing that I paid $314.99 shipped for my uppers. They didn't come with BCG's or CH's for that price.

If you keep your eyes open on the boards, you'll see some vendors sell a complete AR upper receiver for $299 + shipping, without the BCG or CH. Law-guns.com had some available back in the summer for $299.
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2013, 8:11 PM
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Looks like the PTAC 16" M4 1:7" 5.56 NATO SS12G2 Uppers sold out pretty quick today. They were OOS by late this afternoon.

That either says that they're decent enough for people to buy and shoot with, or they were cheap and people jumped on it for their budget builds and could careless about the quality
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Old 10-08-2013, 8:25 PM
arlenhaoj arlenhaoj is offline
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he still has decent components in that upper for the price.
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2013, 1:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Listen and learn, son.

1. Melonite does not offer the chamber lubricity that chroming does.
It seems you have a very clear preference for CL barrels, which is fine as we all choose the equipment we think will best suit our needs. That being said, all that I have read indicates that Ferritic Nitrocarburizing is superior to CL in every way.

Here is some info:

http://www.cobratacsystems.com/blogs...ome-comparison

http://www.burlingtoneng.com/wear_resistance.html

http://www.burlingtoneng.com/melonite.html
http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/...-ferritic.html

http://www.burlingtoneng.com/corrosion_resistance.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
2. On an M4 w/non-free-floated bbl and not a match bbl and not using match ammo
even a more than ordinary shooter will not notice chrome vs non-chrome differentiation.
Having a real good match bbl with all the rest of the above, plus some shooting ability,
might possibly be noticed to those with real shooting ability.
Very true, However, since CL barrels tend to be more expensive than melonite treated barrels, I point out the potential loss of accuracy as a detraction that does not affect melonite treated barrels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
3. Uncle Sugar still chooses chrome for a reason. The Cool Kidz with UTG/Airsoft accessories
and not enough budget to pay for a chrome-lined bbl are the ones that think its good and
believe the vendor's explanation for cheaping out.
When it comes to the M16/M4 platform, I look at "Uncle Sugar" like the stereotypical crusty old guy at the local gun shop; he's set in his ways, and by George... some whipper snapper ain't gonna change his mind with the latest and greatest whiz-bang doo-dads.

I personally am quite fond of a few things "Uncle Sugar" doesn't use.

-Midlength gas systems
-BCG's with other coatings besides phosphate
-Front sights of the non A2 FSB variety
-Collapsible stocks of the non M4 variety
-Muzzle devices besides the A2 birdcage

But, like I said before, we all choose the gear we believe will serve our purposes better.
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2013, 9:33 AM
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They're back on sale again today for the same $399 price, with BCG & CH.
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