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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 10-06-2013, 4:17 PM
UBFRAGD UBFRAGD is offline
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Default Optics story: Worst day at range ever!

First lame-arse excuse is, I was coming down with the flu and chose to ignore that unavoidable fact in the excitement of completing the initial assemble of a LR308 and going to the range. Mentally, I was able to count to potato, and my nose had been replaced by a mucous valve stuck wide open.

The range was crowded, but I got a table and proceeded to go thru a lengthy, inaccurate bore-sighting process. After messing around for about 30 min, I took it into the clubhouse and the rangemaster did his boresighting, and it appeared I was about 40 clicks off combined v/h combined--wow.

Back to the bench, assemble the rifle, wow again, look at all the people just standing around watching, waiting for a table, get the rifle set-up for some dry-fire, 1, 2, on the third bolt reset the fine optic puked itself off the rifle clattering to the stone table. Hopefully I don't become some epic youtube video rifleman fail. I just packed it up and left before anyone came up with some good lines.

I guess when weakened by the flu, don't trust your seat-of-the-pants torque feel. The optic is fine; ACOGS need intentional abuse to go south. Whether I can show my face at the range again is debatable. Yeah I used Loctite.

Ah well, back to the flu.
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Old 10-06-2013, 4:34 PM
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Too bad for you, and it sucks to zero in an optic when you are sick.

A trick to sighting in semi-auto's is to take the rifle apart, on the upper look down the barrel so that you can see any target (the POV of the bullet), and match the scope to what you are looking at by 2" lower. Done up to 50 yards, it can get you on a letter sized paper. Make sure it's on something steady (ammo box, rifle case, etc...) so it isn't moving around.
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  #3  
Old 10-06-2013, 5:13 PM
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Lol… The lesson of the day should be to buy a torque wrench…
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Old 10-06-2013, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UBFRAGD View Post
and my nose had been replaced by a mucous valve stuck wide open.
This is a great line. I may steal it.
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Old 10-06-2013, 5:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Lol… The lesson of the day should be to buy a torque wrench…
I still find it strange how many people don't have a torque wrench. Firearm related things, especially mounts for optics, tend to have torque specs.

That aside, even without optics issues a day at the range while sick, sucks. A while back I opted to go home after a sneeze resulted in a trigger pull(safe direction, did actually hit the target backer).
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  #6  
Old 10-06-2013, 5:56 PM
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not sure what kind of mount you have, but a QD is the way to go.
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  #7  
Old 10-06-2013, 9:11 PM
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I'm still not sure how it could have come off the rifle if torqued by "feel" (instead of a torque wrench). Even if the scope wouldn't hold its precise zero or position, it should have been tight enough to not fall off by the bolt going into battery.
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Old 10-06-2013, 9:15 PM
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Great story. It's okay to be embarrassed. You'll get over it quickly once you start shooting it again. Live and learn
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2013, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyguy View Post
I'm still not sure how it could have come off the rifle if torqued by "feel" (instead of a torque wrench). Even if the scope wouldn't hold its precise zero or position, it should have been tight enough to not fall off by the bolt going into battery.
Because he probably used the thumb screws on the factory OEM mount… so it wasn’t even close to being sufficiently tightened and walked itself loose.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Because he probably used the thumb screws on the factory OEM mount… so it wasn’t even close to being sufficiently tightened and walked itself loose.
That makes sense if he was "torquing" by using his fingertips. I had figured there was at least some kind of tool involved.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Lol… The lesson of the day should be to buy a torque wrench…
For fine, low torque applications, a torque driver (AKA torque screwdriver) is much better than a torque wrench.
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2013, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raralith View Post
A trick to sighting in semi-auto's is to take the rifle apart, on the upper look down the barrel so that you can see any target (the POV of the bullet), and match the scope to what you are looking at by 2" lower. Done up to 50 yards, it can get you on a letter sized paper. Make sure it's on something steady (ammo box, rifle case, etc...) so it isn't moving around.
Just so that I understand your instructions: You sight the bore on the bullseye, then sight your scope at 2" below the bullseye?

Shouldn't the scope be sighted 2" above the bullseye to account for the centerline of the scope being ~2" above the bore of the rifle?
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyguy View Post
For fine, low torque applications, a torque driver (AKA torque screwdriver) is much better than a torque wrench.
Well, technically the borka is still called a driver, looks more like a wrench to me

But yes, a torque tool in inch/pounds rather than foot/pounds would be the thing to look for.
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Because he probably used the thumb screws on the factory OEM mount… so it wasn’t even close to being sufficiently tightened and walked itself loose.
What I have found works great for those mounts is to tighten it finger tight, then using a really broad screwdriver or a stripper clip, turn it another quarter of a turn. Then to be safe I mark its location with a paint pen or sharpie to ensure it doesn't work its way loose (haven't happened yet)
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Old 10-07-2013, 9:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
What I have found works great for those mounts is to tighten it finger tight, then using a really broad screwdriver or a stripper clip, turn it another quarter of a turn. Then to be safe I mark its location with a paint pen or sharpie to ensure it doesn't work its way loose (haven't happened yet)
I've found it works even better to dump those crappy mounts and put my ACOG's into a TA98 or similar QD mount. Looks cleaner, quick to come off, excellent return to zero. Larue is good as GDI. Personally I prefer the Bobro's.
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Old 10-07-2013, 9:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Lol… The lesson of the day should be to buy a torque wrench…
And/or a flu shot...

When I finally broke down and bought a torque driver, I was amazed at how far off I had been - not nearly tight enough.
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyguy View Post
For fine, low torque applications, a torque driver (AKA torque screwdriver) is much better than a torque wrench.
Driver, Wrench... whatever you want to call it.

Just because its called a wrench doesn't mean its for high torque applications like lug nuts.

I actually prefer a non-clicker for low torque applications.
http://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-TW-1...+torque+wrench
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by OpticsPlanet View Post
And/or a flu shot...

When I finally broke down and bought a torque driver, I was amazed at how far off I had been - not nearly tight enough.
I was guilty of constantly over torqueing without torque tools, I’m sure that goes for a lot of other people too.

It’s very hard for people to tell the difference between 15,25,25,30,50 inch/lb

The tools are just a reliable and repeatable way to get the job done…
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Old 10-07-2013, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Driver, Wrench... whatever you want to call it.

Just because its called a wrench doesn't mean its for high torque applications like lug nuts.

I actually prefer a non-clicker for low torque applications.
http://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-TW-1...+torque+wrench
I'm well aware of the differences between a wrench and a driver. I have a high-quality micrometer torque wrench that ranges from 30 to 200 in-lbs in 1 in-lb increments. But for delicate work, I use a torque driver with a range from 10 to 40 in-lbs in 0.25 in-lb increments. (I actually have several other torque drivers, but can't be bothered to go dig them up and check their ratings.)

or

While both a torque wrench and a torque driver are designed to apply a measured amount of torque to a fastener, the advantage of the torque driver for delicate work is that the torque is applied on-axis with the fastener and is thus a balanced force, whereas a torque wrench applies the force off-axis and is therefore less accurate and more likely to cause damage to the parts you are fastening.
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Last edited by Spyguy; 10-07-2013 at 5:48 PM..
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Old 10-08-2013, 8:48 AM
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never used any of those tools although I like good tools ,good fitting screw driver & my wrist.
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Old 10-08-2013, 8:53 AM
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Sounds about right. I have pneumonia, been sick a few weeks. One day I went to the range with my 1911 and some .45, which sounds fine, but it is a 10mm. Next time I went I was barely hitting the 7x7 targets at 12 yards, and I did miss several. I feel your pain!
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Old 10-09-2013, 5:32 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5betKv46GB4

Your post reminded me of this. At the 15-17 second mark....
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Old 10-09-2013, 5:45 PM
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Just say a Front Sight commercial on Youtube watching the Great Santini videos.
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Old 10-09-2013, 7:19 PM
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haha! Thanks perfect!
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Old 10-09-2013, 7:19 PM
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Get a QD
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  #26  
Old 10-09-2013, 8:20 PM
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Keep shooting
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Old 10-09-2013, 8:36 PM
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On a flu note . . . Tried the Kleenex Cool Touch tissues? Very nice!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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Old 10-10-2013, 2:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshinoro2007 View Post
I've found it works even better to dump those crappy mounts and put my ACOG's into a TA98 or similar QD mount. Looks cleaner, quick to come off, excellent return to zero. Larue is good as GDI. Personally I prefer the Bobro's.
Couldn't agree more with you, but when it comes to issued optics and carrying handles, kind of stuck with whats given. Which is why I use personal optics (USO, Micro T1, ACOG) whenever possible, all of which have Larue mounts. Only non Larue mount I have is for my Atlas bipod, has an ADM mount, works great too.
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Old 10-10-2013, 7:30 AM
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You may want to check your rings/mount by twisting and moving it side to side. Larue mounts are tricky to mount the rings and can be loose when moved side to side. Also I had a out of spec upper where the width of the Picatinny rail measured .020 where spec is .035 -.005. It was so loose my Bobro would clamp down but when I applied force to it you could feel it move slightly. Solid mounts are always best but if your running BUIS then a quality QD mount that will rezero is required. I have found Bobro to be superior to Larue IMHO because there is no adjustment necessary and the one handed disconnect. For the ultimate ring to optic contact lapping the rings are also good/cheap insurance.
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Old 10-10-2013, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyguy View Post
Just so that I understand your instructions: You sight the bore on the bullseye, then sight your scope at 2" below the bullseye?

Shouldn't the scope be sighted 2" above the bullseye to account for the centerline of the scope being ~2" above the bore of the rifle?
I too was told 2" above.
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Old 10-13-2013, 6:35 PM
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Update: Although I have other rifles with ACOG's and they use non-stock mounts, I tried again to make this work stock this weekend. Re-mount, go through the bore-sight process again, start shooting 12" low and 6" right, within 8 shots in the 7 ring, 12 shots I was in the 9 ring, next weekend, a couple clicks right and a click down, should be in the red over and over. 4x32 ACOG 308 ballistic ret, really fun optic.

I was going for a lightweight 308 carbine and I think I nailed it, can you say sunglass-breaking recoil HOOOAH!
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Old 10-13-2013, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by UBFRAGD View Post
Update: Although I have other rifles with ACOG's and they use non-stock mounts, I tried again to make this work stock this weekend. Re-mount, go through the bore-sight process again, start shooting 12" low and 6" right, within 8 shots in the 7 ring, 12 shots I was in the 9 ring, next weekend, a couple clicks right and a click down, should be in the red over and over. 4x32 ACOG 308 ballistic ret, really fun optic.

I was going for a lightweight 308 carbine and I think I nailed it, can you say sunglass-breaking recoil HOOOAH!
If you bore sighted it, why did it take 12 shots to zero it? You can do it on 1, maybe 3 tops. Watch this and save yourself some ammo and time in the future:
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Old 10-13-2013, 8:17 PM
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LOFL stuff happens bro we all go Retardo Montalbon some times. Over the years I have 1. Shot a boresighter out of an AR... 2. Had my AR high side on a 30 round magazine and a bi-pod and roll off onto my brand new $300 scope.. Stuff happens sometimes.
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Old 10-13-2013, 8:19 PM
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LOFL stuff happens bro we all go Retardo Montalbon some times. Over the years I have 1. Shot a boresighter out of an AR... 2. Had my AR high side on a 30 round magazine and a bi-pod and roll off onto my brand new $300 scope.. Stuff happens sometimes.
OK… that one is pretty impressive.
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Old 10-13-2013, 8:38 PM
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OK… that one is pretty impressive.
I'll never understand why people need an extra tool to bore sight an AR, when it's so easy to just use your eyeball. No change of having an unnecessary object end up as a bore obstruction.
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Old 10-13-2013, 8:38 PM
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Wow..Don't feel bad..I had that kind of a day @ the range as well..Got a new 18inch stainless bull Ar to compliment my 16in one..For the 18 incher, I got a Nikon Prostaff3 3-9-50..Boresighted it on Friday, so i figured, No problem..I will have tis dialed in in about 8-10 shots...Again..not feeling well and slept for crap last night..After 35 rounds, I was still off...I packed up and called it a day....Try again next week..
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Old 10-13-2013, 8:45 PM
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I'll never understand why people need an extra tool to bore sight an AR, when it's so easy to just use your eyeball. No change of having an unnecessary object end up as a bore obstruction.
Marketing…

Before I knew any better, I fell into that idea that I needed one as well. Not only does it work like crap and isn’t very consistent, I got better results with the “look down the bore” method.
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Old 10-13-2013, 8:50 PM
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Marketing…

Before I knew any better, I fell into that idea that I needed one as well. Not only does it work like crap and isn’t very consistent, I got better results with the “look down the bore” method.
I suppose the same is true for me as well(I still have one lying around somewhere). But with as many times as it's been posted about on this forum(got it before I read that there was a better method), you'd think it'd be more common for people to realize this. Oh well, at least we can continue trying to educate people that it's simply not needed.
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Old 10-13-2013, 9:13 PM
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Get one of these:



http://www.midwayusa.com/product/718...ch-screwdriver
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by negolien View Post
LOFL stuff happens bro we all go Retardo Montalbon some times. Over the years I have 1. Shot a boresighter out of an AR... 2. Had my AR high side on a 30 round magazine and a bi-pod and roll off onto my brand new $300 scope.. Stuff happens sometimes.
Feel your pain, had my M1 Garand fall off a table right onto my USO mounted on my Savage that was sitting on its bipod on the ground. Put a nice little ding on the scope ring (Badger) but thats about it, didn't effect zero at all, still nuts on at distance.
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