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  #1  
Old 09-30-2013, 11:11 AM
Marty33 Marty33 is offline
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Default Have Mumbai and Kenya changed your off duty carry tactics?

These two events have changed mine. I now carry my Glock 22 with TLR1 in a Raven Phantom. I also carry a reload.
I got to thinking after Kenya, if I had to go up against these guys in a mall at Christmas time , what could I really do with my Beretta Nano or my G33 while off duty?
A G22 against rifles is still not ideal, but I believe we have a duty to be prepared for events such as this, which I believe will eventually come to America.
Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2013, 12:11 PM
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H&K USP-45 with two extra 12 rounders...everywhere I go. Long before Mumbai, there were incidents that could of used someone with a CCW. McDonalds, Malls, schools, movies. Nothin new, the threat has always been there. And ALWAYS will be, no matter how much they try and legislate. What we need to make the news, is when a person with a CCW stops the threat. But we have NO MEDIA on our side, so we never hear of those incidents.
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  #3  
Old 09-30-2013, 2:23 PM
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I carry my uspc .40 w 1 extra mag on me but in my car i have a full size mp9 mounted under my steering wheel with 2 extra mags and i plan on mounting an AR in my trunk.
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2013, 3:36 PM
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G27 w/13rd mag, 3 extra mags in glove box. I always feel naked when I leave home without it. Tried smaller even bought a sheild last week but can't get used to 8rounds and it doesn't fit my meat hands. Gonna sell that and get a spare glock for the car.
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  #5  
Old 09-30-2013, 4:11 PM
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Usually carry my G19 with an extra mag. never hurts to carry more, but I feel like I'm somewhat prepared.
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  #6  
Old 09-30-2013, 4:22 PM
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^Sounds like you need to buy my 31rd factory glock mags for that g19....you know for the glove box haha
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  #7  
Old 09-30-2013, 4:34 PM
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Yes I now carry my mosin nagant with bayonet attached and accompanying bandoliers. It's a little uncomfortable in the car but it gives a whole definition to "command presence."

































But seriously my go to has always been a glock 30 with 2 spare 13 round g21 mags.
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  #8  
Old 09-30-2013, 6:05 PM
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I more frequently carry two reloads as opposed to the usual one
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  #9  
Old 09-30-2013, 7:05 PM
America's Least Wanted America's Least Wanted is offline
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Why? That would be a fairly quiet weekend in those typical African nations. Been like that since before time began.

Similarly, more are shot in Obama/Rahm's Chicago "on any given Sunday" than any "mass shooting incidents" the Gun Grabbers hype.

Did I mention its all 'hype'.
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  #10  
Old 09-30-2013, 7:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by America's Least Wanted View Post
Why? That would be a fairly quiet weekend in those typical African nations. Been like that since before time began.

So? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Similarly, more are shot in Obama/Rahm's Chicago "on any given Sunday" than any "mass shooting incidents" the Gun Grabbers hype.

So, what you're saying is that since other types of shootings/murders happen, there should be no concern or preparation for any "mass shooting incidents"...

Did I mention its all 'hype'.

Yeah, tell that to all the victims and the families of all the victims of all the mass shooting/active shooter incidents we've had here in the US...
Are you a sworn LEO? If not, you shouldn't be replying. If so, pull your head out.

Btw, I've read a good number of articles/debriefs where non-LEOs with CCWs (or were otherwise legally carrying) took action in response to these types of situations and saved NUMEROUS lives. So you're also telling all the non-LEO sheepdogs out there that they don't need to carry either because "it's all hype"...

Last edited by Samuelx; 09-30-2013 at 7:23 PM..
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  #11  
Old 09-30-2013, 9:54 PM
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I think it is important to use these incidents (as I'm sure many here have) as reminders to think about possible off-duty (and on duty!) situations. These recent attacks haven't caused me to change the way I carry off-duty; they just reaffirm my belief (I think many here think the same way) that I should carry the largest firearm I can conceal/go about my day with. That being said, I am also of the mindset that if my number is up, it's up. If I die in a mall somewhere because I did not have level 4 armor and a SCAR 17, well, it was just my day to go. I am not going to roll to the mall in full battle rattle with cover units and SWAT; I will always (at least as far as equipment goes) be outmatched if one of these scenarios goes down in a mall that I am shopping at. I will, however, use my brain and my training along with my limited equipment to do what I can to: A) get my friends/family out safely and B) if I can effect some kind of effective resistance/rescue/recon plan, do so.
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  #12  
Old 10-01-2013, 9:56 AM
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The short answer: No, it hasn't changed my off-duty behavior.

I have carried since becoming an LEO. Glock 23 .40 cal w/2x mags. 40 rnds total, Federal HST. Not enough for a sustained firefight, but enough to hopefully get my friend/family out of harms way.

I remember a very stark photo posted in Offtopic of a man and woman, presumable partners, who had both been shot and killed in the attack in Kenya. The man was holding the woman in his arms as though he had tried to shield her from the gunfire that ultimately took both their lives. This man tried to defend someone he loved, unfortunately, he only had his flesh and life to do so.

I showed this picture to my live-in girlfriend and promised her I would never let that happen to us. I intend to keep that promise.
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  #13  
Old 10-01-2013, 10:08 AM
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In a small backpack with low profile carrier w/extra mags....
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  #14  
Old 10-01-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911su16b870 View Post


In a small backpack with low profile carrier w/extra mags....
You DO leave the zippers cracked open so she can get some air, right?
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  #15  
Old 10-01-2013, 10:15 AM
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Great little read by LTC Dave Grossman, if you haven't read it already. I agree with him 100%, that is why I always carry.
http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
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  #16  
Old 10-01-2013, 4:10 PM
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It has taught me to talk about a family safety plan for when I am with family.
It has taught us to be more aware..
No condition white while shopping anymore..it's more of a condition yellow. No letting your guard down..
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  #17  
Old 10-01-2013, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by IA300 View Post
Great little read by LTC Dave Grossman, if you haven't read it already. I agree with him 100%, that is why I always carry.
http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
An oldie but a goodie. Truth.

I carry an XDM. 19+1 124 grain +P JHP's. Purely a defensive weapon. In the case of a terrorist attack like that my sole motivation is to get my family to safety.
Thats it. Dont care about anything else.
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Old 10-01-2013, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigStiCK View Post
An oldie but a goodie. Truth.

I carry an XDM. 19+1 124 grain +P JHP's. Purely a defensive weapon. In the case of a terrorist attack like that my sole motivation is to get my family to safety.
Thats it. Dont care about anything else.
Exactly, what was the guy thinking in "Die Hard"?
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  #19  
Old 10-01-2013, 4:47 PM
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Exactly, what was the guy thinking in "Die Hard"?
Um, that was a movie. Bruce Willis didnt actually do that.
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  #20  
Old 10-01-2013, 6:18 PM
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If you carry a 5 shot revolver, you can kill one of the bad guys and use his guns to engage other guys. Maybe.
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  #21  
Old 10-01-2013, 7:39 PM
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Quote:
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If you carry a 5 shot revolver, you can kill one of the bad guys and use his guns to engage other guys. Maybe.
Not sure if this is sarcasm but the fact that you said "maybe" shows how this is a flawed point of view.

13+1 in the gun w/2x mags is the standard load out for my agency. I have a strong "one gun, one holster" type of mentality. If you train with and carry a particular gun and set of equipment everyday for work, I believe you should carry as similar equipment as possible and still be concealable.

Last edited by omgwtfbbq; 10-02-2013 at 6:52 AM..
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  #22  
Old 10-02-2013, 7:00 AM
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Retired, but still carry a G23 with a spare G22 mag.
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  #23  
Old 10-02-2013, 11:49 AM
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Nope because the objective is still the same and that is to escape.
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  #24  
Old 10-03-2013, 9:57 PM
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FYI: Kenya is as "gun-free-zone" as you can get. Not only rifles & handguns, but all ammo & even empty casings are illegal.

Every story published about the heroes who used their guns - were all carrying illegally in Kenya, unless they were KDF (military). Most LEO's in Kenya cannot carry either. Just FYI
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  #25  
Old 10-03-2013, 10:12 PM
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What Kenya (Westgate) mall should also point out is to avoid high-value, undefended targets.

Westgate had no armed security guards, because guns are illegal in Kenya.

Westgate was Nairobi's "Rodeo Drive". Frequented by rich UN & Embassy Staffs, rich foreigners, rich Kenyans, and relatives of the politically powerful.

It was a terrorist attack waiting to happen, especially after KDF forces invaded Somalia to destroy Al Shabaab. High value, undefended target.

Meanwhile, there's a large Somali population in NBO, plus much of the Khat used in Somalia is grown in Kenya. Easy to get contraband from Somalia into Kenya.

The smart, situationally aware folks in Nairobi have avoided shopping there since KDF entered Somalia.

Can't live in fear, but avoiding some obvious target-rich environments probably makes sense - overseas & here
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Old 10-04-2013, 9:49 PM
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Nope. I've carried since day one of my career. Even carry while on the crapper.

However, ever since an off duty incident, I now carry two extra mags with me in my POV.

Road Rage gone bad. Suspect cut me off, stops car in middle of street, curses me out, and starts advancing toward me with hand in pocket. Identified myself as LEO and pointed my gun at him while ordering to get back

He saw my gun and heard my orders. He wasn't impressed and kept advancing. I drew a line in the sand, and told myself if he crossed that line, I was going to shoot.

Ever since then, I've carried extra mags in my POV. That, and OC Spray. Depending on where I'm at I'll pop an extra mag in pocket.
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He is an anti-gun guy and he said. "Well, you can't eat ammunition". I replied with "When I'm starving to death with a case of ammunition, who's door do you think I am going to knock on?"
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  #27  
Old 10-05-2013, 4:06 PM
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Just out of curiosity if you guys have thought this through..
when does the scale of the attack eclipse the ability and equipment of local law enforcement and fall into the purview of the military?
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  #28  
Old 10-06-2013, 1:16 PM
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Non-LEO, but wanted to mention a few details that have been unspoken up to now:

Westgate was not a spur of the moment attack. The perpetrators had invested months of preparations into this. They rented and opened a store front inside the mall long ahead of time to allow individuals to gain unrestricted access to the mall to map out infiltration points and study the shopping habits of the legitimate patrons. The storefront had been closed down before the shooting took place, though. This also allowed them to stockpile arms, ammunition and the other supplies needed so that the shooters could enter the mall through the front entrance and not have to try and smuggle in long arms and potentially alert security personnel before the shooting started.

What this says to me is that there needs to be due diligence in checking backgrounds of persons/companies opening storefronts in other highly trafficked and vulnerable places, and that when a vendor closes shop, the property management needs to exercise diligence in having the vacated property inspected ASAP after the tenant has vacated. Not a guarantee against a blitzkrieg attack like the Westgate invasion, but it would force potential attackers to have to carry their gear with them, which would generally draw the attention of security personnel.

Short of turning the entrances to our shopping malls into mini-TSA checkpoints and having SWAT-like armed security guards patrolling the interiors, the options to prevent incidents like this while still respecting civil rights are fairly limited in scope.
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  #29  
Old 10-06-2013, 6:55 PM
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Glock 19 with my 17 round Glock 17 round mag as a reload. plus my S&W Airweight .38 on the opposite hip at a cross draw.

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Old 10-06-2013, 7:02 PM
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  #31  
Old 10-06-2013, 7:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM5 View Post
G27 w/13rd mag, 3 extra mags in glove box. I always feel naked when I leave home without it. Tried smaller even bought a sheild last week but can't get used to 8rounds and it doesn't fit my meat hands. Gonna sell that and get a spare glock for the car.
Just simple Glock?
You should update your car like this:

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  #32  
Old 10-07-2013, 9:07 AM
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Hasn't changed my CCW carry at all because I always have it with me.
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  #33  
Old 10-07-2013, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Boy View Post

Short of turning the entrances to our shopping malls into mini-TSA checkpoints and having SWAT-like armed security guards patrolling the interiors, the options to prevent incidents like this while still respecting civil rights are fairly limited in scope.
For some reason, Gecko45 immediately comes to mind.
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  #34  
Old 10-15-2013, 2:01 PM
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No, Glock 21SF in Supertuck Deluxe is as heavy as I go, extra mags? not usually, 13+1 rounds of .45 is enough to get myself and others out of most situations, but realistically taking on semi-auto rifles with a sidearm is a losing fight. Get out, save anyone you can but reality is you are outgunned and people will die. Tactically retreat, stop any threat possible, I sold my Glock 27because I didn't feel it was accurate enough for responding to active shooters in crowded areas, the 21 inspires much more confidence but a sidearm still has it's limitations.
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  #35  
Old 10-15-2013, 4:51 PM
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M&P9, LCP, flashlight, knife, and cuffs go with me everywhere off duty.
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  #36  
Old 10-17-2013, 3:43 PM
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Must be nice to carry concealed...guess all the rest of us non LEO's are just SOL in this state... Its unfortunate.
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  #37  
Old 10-17-2013, 4:24 PM
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Must be nice to carry concealed...guess all the rest of us non LEO's are just SOL in this state... Its unfortunate.
Not to rub salt into the wound, but yes, it is and I doubt there is a leo, active or retired on this board that does not believe all qualified people in this state should be able to carry. Some counties up north are pretty much shall issue and there are some in S. Cal. that issue them also. Unfortunately, L.A. and OC cannot be counted among them. There are non leos who have ccws in this state.

Last edited by retired; 10-25-2013 at 11:58 AM..
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  #38  
Old 10-17-2013, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Loki928s View Post
Must be nice to carry concealed...guess all the rest of us non LEO's are just SOL in this state... Its unfortunate.
If it is that important to you and you think you're qualified, you could always make a career change?
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  #39  
Old 10-17-2013, 8:12 PM
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I'm non-leo..But I'm a CCW licencee..This is all good info..Just to add a tidbit..I have a plan with my family for when we are in a public place, we have a "panic" word . This is a very infrequently used word and when or if(hopefully never) I use it, my wife and kids know to get together and AWAY from me..That way , I can keep the perps attention on me and address the threat..Normally a G26 with an extra mag..When clothing permits..G19 w/extra 10 rd mag--yep I'm a civilian..so only 10rd...Foe us civees..training..training..training..and have a plan...
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Old 10-17-2013, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
If it is that important to you and you think you're qualified, you could always make a career change?
career change isn't in the cards for me...most likely going to make a state change...which is also unfortunate.

I have been reading up on the process of acquiring one and came across this gem.. "You must state, in your own words, why you should be issued a CCW. In general, simply stating for protection of yourself and your family is not valid cause in California. You must state why you are more susceptible to a criminal attack than the average person."

anyone else think this is complete BS? Or am i alone..
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