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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 09-25-2013, 9:48 AM
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Default Remington 700 SPS AAC 300 AAC Blackout

Hey guys,

So I've been wanting a bolt gun for a while now. As of right now, it'll mainly be for plinking and eventually want to get into coyote hunting. I would like to take classes for marksmanship and the like, but I first have to decide on gun.

At the lgs, I was directed to a Savage, due to price and out of the box accuracy. However, I recently found the Remington 700 in 300 blk. For plinking, I wanted to stay .223 but now the 300 caught my eye.

Good choice to start? 16.5" barrel an issue?

Last edited by Glock619; 09-25-2013 at 12:23 PM.. Reason: Change Marlin to Savage :)
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:18 PM
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Dont know much about blackout... whats the availability and cost?

Whats max accurate distance?

If those dont make sense, the 223 or 308 start making a lot more sense pretty quick. Just depends on what you want though.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:21 PM
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Not too sure on specs, but have seen them for around $700.

Seems like a lot of people don't think this caliber is ideal for a bolt gun, like a waste basically.

You're right, most are saying .223 or .308.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:43 PM
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I meant ammo price/availability...

I think blackout is popular with the AR crowd for a little more hitting power, and mostly "just to be different" from everyone else.

I dont know much anything about the round but I have a gut feeling it's no where near as good is more common bolt action cartridges, so honestly I just dont see the point.

Only thing I heard postitive about it, was how quiet they are if you shoot suppressed.... Not a consideration here in kali.
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Old 09-25-2013, 1:17 PM
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The 300 blackout was designed for one principle reason: Get a 30 cal round to feed out of a stock AR with stock magazines at subsonic velocities. You can do a lot with the round that it wasn't designed to do but it's major benefits would not be seen in a bolt gun.

A very similar thing can be said for the .223. .223 has been around longer so there are more people shooting it out of bolt guns but it sort of sucks in the wind, and can't get bullets moving like a .22-250 can. It is cheap to reload for though.

If you want a .30 in a bolt gun get a .308 if it's your first bolt gun. If you just want to plink and occasionally want to shoot a coyote then a .223 would be fine but a .22-250 might be more useful if you don't mind that it burns up barrels.
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Old 09-25-2013, 2:45 PM
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For plinking and coyotes skip the 300 Blk. I had one in a Savage bolt gun, and while a lot of fun to shoot and reload for, it just doesnt have the steam for coyote.

If you want a do all rifle, its almost impossible to beat a good ol 243. You can shoot 4k+ fps with tiny varmint bullets, or take down a coyote or deer several hundred yards away with the tougher hunting bullets in the 70-90 grain category, or you can shoot 1k yards with a 105-115 grain Berger.
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Old 09-25-2013, 4:33 PM
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Get a .308. It has a much wider range of loads available, from 110 grains for plinking/coyote to 175's for large game and long range.
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Old 09-25-2013, 4:34 PM
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It will be serviceable for 100-200 yrds if your up to it but there are FAR BETTER choices available.
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Old 09-25-2013, 6:39 PM
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I bought a 16" barreled 700 in 300 AAC. Dropped it into an HS stock, added an AAC brake and Monarch scope. It's a fun little rifle and round. I don't know that I see any purpose to it, but for putting 30 caliber holes in paper at about 100 yds it's just neat.
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Old 09-25-2013, 7:36 PM
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Thanks everyone for the comments. I feel like going .308 now, 243 has me thinking.

I have no experience in this field, so I appreciate all the recommendations. So what gun? Remington 700 or a Savage? in the appropriate caliber.
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  #11  
Old 09-25-2013, 7:52 PM
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I only recently started getting interested in .338 whisper #2, which is sort of a big brother to the .300 whisper, which is pretty much the .300 blackout.

Anyway, I'm not authority, but so far as I can tell lots of people are interested in it because if you shoot it at subsonic velocities, the ballistic coefficient of the big bullets is pretty awesome. You loose little velocity and wind drift is minimal. Yes, you are lobbing big chunks of lead at low velocity, but gravity is a constant that can be accounted for, wind is not.

Anyway, I don't know if subsonic stuff is still pursued by the target crowd, I just thought it would be something fun to build. Unfortunately I can't find a lot of the same information about .300 blackout every since it became 'The Ultimate Suppressed CQB Round Ever!!!!'.

So far as ballistics go, I think energy wise you are looking at something roughly equivalent to a .357 mag (in the subsonic variety)?

I'm probably wrong.
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Old 09-25-2013, 8:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
I only recently started getting interested in .338 whisper #2, which is sort of a big brother to the .300 whisper, which is pretty much the .300 blackout.

Anyway, I'm not authority, but so far as I can tell lots of people are interested in it because if you shoot it at subsonic velocities, the ballistic coefficient of the big bullets is pretty awesome. You loose little velocity and wind drift is minimal. Yes, you are lobbing big chunks of lead at low velocity, but gravity is a constant that can be accounted for, wind is not.

Anyway, I don't know if subsonic stuff is still pursued by the target crowd, I just thought it would be something fun to build. Unfortunately I can't find a lot of the same information about .300 blackout every since it became 'The Ultimate Suppressed CQB Round Ever!!!!'.

So far as ballistics go, I think energy wise you are looking at something roughly equivalent to a .357 mag (in the subsonic variety)?

I'm probably wrong.

I know absolutely nothing on "hunting" calibers. I just inquired simply because it's the fad right now. I if suppressors were legal here, I would definitely pursing 300 blk. I really don't have a sole purpose yet, just plinking, with coyotes later once I have adequate gear and license.
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Old 09-25-2013, 8:30 PM
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300 blk doesn't make sense as a plinking caliber. It's not widely available, for one, and is pricy for another.

.308 is nice because it's everywhere and (normally) relatively inexpensive. Not a bad round for hunting, either. If you never want to go bigger than coyote, .243 is also a good choice, though .308 is more ubiquitous in my experience. (.243 can take down more than a coyote, but .308 is not necessary if you just want to stick with coyote hunting)
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Old 09-25-2013, 8:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
I only recently started getting interested in .338 whisper #2, which is sort of a big brother to the .300 whisper, which is pretty much the .300 blackout.

Anyway, I'm not authority, but so far as I can tell lots of people are interested in it because if you shoot it at subsonic velocities, the ballistic coefficient of the big bullets is pretty awesome. You loose little velocity and wind drift is minimal. Yes, you are lobbing big chunks of lead at low velocity, but gravity is a constant that can be accounted for, wind is not.

Anyway, I don't know if subsonic stuff is still pursued by the target crowd, I just thought it would be something fun to build. Unfortunately I can't find a lot of the same information about .300 blackout every since it became 'The Ultimate Suppressed CQB Round Ever!!!!'.

So far as ballistics go, I think energy wise you are looking at something roughly equivalent to a .357 mag (in the subsonic variety)?

I'm probably wrong.
But if you dont live in a state that allows suppressor... whats the point?

Lob streamlined chunks of lead at very high velocity that beats the wind, and gets there faster... beating gravity.... and is good for 100-1000?

So a blackout hits like a 357?

At 500+ yards, a 308 still hits harder than a 44....

It all boils down to purpose.....

Unless you're shooting suppressed... there just isnt any purpose... There are far more readily available rounds, cheaper that perform better- for unsuppressed varminting and target shooting.
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Old 09-25-2013, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock619 View Post
I know absolutely nothing on "hunting" calibers. I just inquired simply because it's the fad right now. I if suppressors were legal here, I would definitely pursing 300 blk. I really don't have a sole purpose yet, just plinking, with coyotes later once I have adequate gear and license.
No worries, and I was just telling you why I think it would be interesting.

The idea of accurate shooting with subsonic rounds is intriguing to me. For years we have been making bullets fly faster and faster to both increase the mean point blank range AND maximize the range we can get out of them before they transition to subsonic (since the transonic area is turbulent). One interesting approach is to simply start with subsonic ammo, though that doesn't necessarily increase the range, it does provide for mild recoiling ammunition that has the potential to be accurate for a few hundred yards with minimal wind drift.

Basically that approach is just neato to me and I wouldn't mind having a target gun dedicated to firing subsonic big ol bullets with very mild recoil.

Being able to build an relatively inexpensive upper with relatively common parts (mostly) is just a bonus.

Again, I only JUST started looking into this, as I figured .300 black was a terrible waste of an idea until I started looking at other cartridges in the whisper family. I've got plenty of research to do and I definitely don't know enough about the subject yet to call myself anything other than 'potentially interested'.
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Old 09-25-2013, 8:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
Unless you're shooting suppressed... there just isnt any purpose... There are far more readily available rounds, cheaper that perform better- for unsuppressed varminting and target shooting.
My local ranges are limited to 200 yards. Shooting accurately to 200 yards with mild recoil and generally less noise is interesting to me. Doing it with an oddball caliber that I can geek out on is also interesting to me. Doing it with an AR chambered in 5.56/.223 is less interesting to me. A bolt gun in .300 black is interesting to me.

I was just giving my opinion to the OP as to why .300 black in a bolt gun isn't terrible; it is instead interesting.
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Old 09-25-2013, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseV8 View Post
For plinking and coyotes skip the 300 Blk. I had one in a Savage bolt gun, and while a lot of fun to shoot and reload for, it just doesnt have the steam for coyote.

If you want a do all rifle, its almost impossible to beat a good ol 243. You can shoot 4k+ fps with tiny varmint bullets, or take down a coyote or deer several hundred yards away with the tougher hunting bullets in the 70-90 grain category, or you can shoot 1k yards with a 105-115 grain Berger.
I've put plenty of coyotes down with my blackout. Out to 300 yards also. The .300 blk will knock down coyotes harder than any .223 I've ever used. I don't even take my ar in 5.56 anymore. You'll have to reload, that's my biggest issue with 300 blk.
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Old 09-25-2013, 9:48 PM
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Get a 308. Does well with a majority of game hunting out there.

Start reloading. The amount of load data out there is huge!

If you move to a free state, you can still suppress a 308.

Continue reloading even more.

I just put together a shorty version of the AAC-SD: http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showt...4#post12394084
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Old 09-25-2013, 9:58 PM
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Glock619, I'm not sure if you've read the 243 for long range thread but that's a good read to help decide between 243 and 308.

As far as brands Savage 10/110 (I think thats the model) or Remmington 700s would both be great. Both have lots of aftermarket and info out there. I would recommend a heavy barrel as it will Steve you better down the road if you want to get more into precision shooting.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:03 PM
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Norcal- just fyi....

savage 10 is short action. 110 is long action.

Short action takes up to the 308 based cartridges including 223,243, 308, 260. 6.5 creedmore, etc.

long action is for 30-06, 300winmag etc.
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Old 09-26-2013, 9:31 AM
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Quote:
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I've put plenty of coyotes down with my blackout. Out to 300 yards also. The .300 blk will knock down coyotes harder than any .223 I've ever used. I don't even take my ar in 5.56 anymore. You'll have to reload, that's my biggest issue with 300 blk.
No doubt the 300 Blk is capable its a pretty impressive round for its size. I really enjoyed mine, but it just doesnt hold up when compared to other options. I have killed coyote with a 22LR and 12 gauge birdshot, but there are better choices. Even on small game, my 300 Blk loaded to supersonic and subsonic specs with lots of different bullets didnt have a great terminal effect. It totally got the job done, but wasnt even close to my 243 or 308.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseV8 View Post
No doubt the 300 Blk is capable its a pretty impressive round for its size. I really enjoyed mine, but it just doesnt hold up when compared to other options. I have killed coyote with a 22LR and 12 gauge birdshot, but there are better choices. Even on small game, my 300 Blk loaded to supersonic and subsonic specs with lots of different bullets didnt have a great terminal effect. It totally got the job done, but wasnt even close to my 243 or 308.
I agree that a .243 is a superior varmint round to the .300 blk. I have a .22-250 that is also fun to hunt coyotes. I just have more fun shooting, and loading for my blackout. For me, it's pointless to use a .308 for coyote hunting. I don't shoot my .308 unless I'm shooting steel past 500 yards. If someone wants to punch holes in paper at 100 yards, it doesn't really matter what gun you use as long as you have fun shooting it.
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Old 09-26-2013, 1:20 PM
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Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
No worries, and I was just telling you why I think it would be interesting.

The idea of accurate shooting with subsonic rounds is intriguing to me. For years we have been making bullets fly faster and faster to both increase the mean point blank range AND maximize the range we can get out of them before they transition to subsonic (since the transonic area is turbulent). One interesting approach is to simply start with subsonic ammo, though that doesn't necessarily increase the range, it does provide for mild recoiling ammunition that has the potential to be accurate for a few hundred yards with minimal wind drift.

Basically that approach is just neato to me and I wouldn't mind having a target gun dedicated to firing subsonic big ol bullets with very mild recoil.

Being able to build an relatively inexpensive upper with relatively common parts (mostly) is just a bonus.

Again, I only JUST started looking into this, as I figured .300 black was a terrible waste of an idea until I started looking at other cartridges in the whisper family. I've got plenty of research to do and I definitely don't know enough about the subject yet to call myself anything other than 'potentially interested'.
I wish I had that much knowledge on calibers to determine purpose and the such. I understand what you are saying, but I am assuming that the way I feel with you terminology, is the way my wife feels when I talk motorcycles. lol. I too have to do research to gather the difference in subsonic/sonic. That's why I want to do a long range course once I get this rifle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
Glock619, I'm not sure if you've read the 243 for long range thread but that's a good read to help decide between 243 and 308.

As far as brands Savage 10/110 (I think thats the model) or Remmington 700s would both be great. Both have lots of aftermarket and info out there. I would recommend a heavy barrel as it will Steve you better down the road if you want to get more into precision shooting.
I'll read into the .243. Thanks for the advice. Having a hard time deciding on brand now.
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Old 09-26-2013, 2:19 PM
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Go to the store look at both shoulder them, work the bolt, check your natural cheek weld. Much like buying a pistol, get what fits you the best.
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Old 09-26-2013, 3:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock619 View Post
I wish I had that much knowledge on calibers to determine purpose and the such. I understand what you are saying, but I am assuming that the way I feel with you terminology, is the way my wife feels when I talk motorcycles. lol. I too have to do research to gather the difference in subsonic/sonic. That's why I want to do a long range course once I get this rifle.



I'll read into the .243. Thanks for the advice. Having a hard time deciding on brand now.
Hah, I wrenched for an AFM 'team' for a while. I've found that there's just something about guns, motorcycles and computers that tends to bring people together, haha.

.243 is fun to shoot, light recoil, common ammo, good ballistics. .308 may be easier to find factory match ammo until you start rolling your own.
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Old 09-26-2013, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock619 View Post
I too have to do research to gather the difference in subsonic/sonic. That's why I want to do a long range course once I get this rifle.
Simple....

Most rounds are 'supersonic'... faster than the speed of sound.

"subsonic" is below the speed of sound...

Its a long known issue that when a bullet goes from supersonic, and slows down below supersonic, the bullet will destabilize in flight. That point of crossing below the sound barrier, is called 'trans sonic'...

So.... many cartridges have specific bullets that will reach to a certain distance staying supersonic/ie accurate....

When you go past that distance, who knows where it's going to go.... and if you ever hear the term "keyholeing" a target.. it means the bullet destabilized in flight, and went through the target sideways because it went below the speed of sound..

So... blackout/whisper cartridges.... the benefit is a large heavy SLOW bullet that is meant to be fired at "subsonic" velocities. It will not have that trans sonic destabilization affecting accuracy...

However these things are putting along like a broke down old vw.. and dont go that far.. and since they move so slow, they dont have a lot of power in them either when they do hit something...

Also note that the **ACTUAL** speed of sound depends on air pressure... IE barometric pressure... Generally, the speed of sound is about 1,120 feet per second. But is faster or slower depending on air pressure... So in the mountains, the thin air versus sea level will affect the actual speed of sound.

Last edited by postal; 09-26-2013 at 3:47 PM..
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
Simple....

Most rounds are 'supersonic'... faster than the speed of sound.

"subsonic" is below the speed of sound...

Its a long known issue that when a bullet goes from supersonic, and slows down below supersonic, the bullet will destabilize in flight. That point of crossing below the sound barrier, is called 'trans sonic'...

So.... many cartridges have specific bullets that will reach to a certain distance staying supersonic/ie accurate....

When you go past that distance, who knows where it's going to go.... and if you ever hear the term "keyholeing" a target.. it means the bullet destabilized in flight, and went through the target sideways because it went below the speed of sound..

So... blackout/whisper cartridges.... the benefit is a large heavy SLOW bullet that is meant to be fired at "subsonic" velocities. It will not have that trans sonic destabilization affecting accuracy...

However these things are putting along like a broke down old vw.. and dont go that far.. and since they move so slow, they dont have a lot of power in them either when they do hit something...

Also note that the **ACTUAL** speed of sound depends on air pressure... IE barometric pressure... Generally, the speed of sound is about 1,120 feet per second. But is faster or slower depending on air pressure... So in the mountains, the thin air versus sea level will affect the actual speed of sound.
That actually made sense to me, thanks. I think I read something about that when looking up the 300 blk, mentioned how the keyholing/tumbling was somehow ideal for inflicting greater damage or something like that with the 7.62. Not too sure. Thank you though


Wife laughed when I mentioned that I wanted to get into hunting. Its new to both of us, but after she realized that I was being honest, she said ok. At dinner, her little brother said he is interested to. Said that hunting and field dressing a kill is a valuable skill. I was proud, he's only 17. So, going to have to buy two rifles now and we'll be getting our licenses once I'm off worker's comp.

Last edited by Glock619; 09-26-2013 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:26 PM
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Start looking now for hunter safety classes.

Also it s cheap and easy to do, start going out into the woods and try spotting, stalking, learning patterns, etc.
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Old 09-27-2013, 5:18 PM
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SMH, pretty sure I'm going with the 700. Now I can't decide on .223 or .308. I would like to pick up two, one for little brother. Decisions, decisions, decisions...
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Old 09-27-2013, 6:02 PM
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One of each. Or a .243.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:48 PM
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SMH, pretty sure I'm going with the 700. Now I can't decide on .223 or .308. I would like to pick up two, one for little brother. Decisions, decisions, decisions...
Not sure where your located, but Bass Pro in Manteca has a .223 varminter in stock I saw it tonight.
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:57 AM
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lgs recommended a .260. Asked why a .308, and I couldn't really justify it at the time.
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Old 09-28-2013, 1:47 PM
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308 is really common and readily available from hunting ammo to match grade.

260 is better, and harder/more expensive to find ammo.

6.5 creedmore is better still, and really hard to find ammo......

243 is just about a tie with 6.5 creedmore in performance but ammo is more readily available than for 6.5 c, and 260...

The only downsides besides ammo availability, is they burn out a barrel faster than a 308 as well. 243 is notorious for wearing out a barrel fast.

Think of it like 308 is a chevy smallblock with some minor upgrades... It performs fine and just runs.... and runs....

243,260,6.5 are more like indy car engines.... yeah they have a lot more performance... but they take a whole lot of maintenance and have to be replaced from time to time. More expensive to run as well.

So............

If you reload.... no problem- any of those will be fine. If you dont.... check ammo prices and availability.

Also... do you have the funds to replace a barrel every 2-3 years? (depends how much you shoot) but a 243 wears a barrel out in about 2000 rounds.

308 is good for about 5000-6000 rounds. 260 and 6.5 dont wear out quite as fast as a 243... but they're still nothing like the longevity of a 308.

Last edited by postal; 09-28-2013 at 1:49 PM..
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Old 09-28-2013, 2:25 PM
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soon after I posted last, I went online to search. 260 was found for $34.99 for 20 rounds, lot more than .223. Reviews show it to be an awesome round, but mention a lot of what you did. Damn, I'll just do .308 then, that way I can get into hogs
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Old 09-28-2013, 2:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
243 is notorious for wearing out a barrel fast.

Also... do you have the funds to replace a barrel every 2-3 years? (depends how much you shoot) but a 243 wears a barrel out in about 2000 rounds.
Uh not sure where you got this from, but a 243 barrel will last a lot longer than 2k rounds lol. Not to mention 2k rounds of 243 would cost at least $1000 even for us handloaders. Most casual shooters would take 10 years to shoot that much ammo.
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Old 09-28-2013, 3:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MongooseV8 View Post
Uh not sure where you got this from, but a 243 barrel will last a lot longer than 2k rounds lol. Not to mention 2k rounds of 243 would cost at least $1000 even for us handloaders. Most casual shooters would take 10 years to shoot that much ammo.
I dont own a 243 so I dont pay a lot of attention.....

My brother does, and so does Randall (Ar15Barrels)

My brother has 2 243 bartlein barrels on order since they wear out so fast... And last I heard Randall rebarrels his rifle 2 times a year.

So my source for round count is my brother and Randall both use 243. Also if you want more solid numbers, check 6mmbr.com for the 243 info page...

Here's a quote from 6mmbr... You're right- 2k rounds was incorrect...
"Barrel life is the downside of both the .243 AI and standard .243. These chamberings pump a lot of powder through a small bore. The result, typically, is rather short barrel life, sometimes less than 1500 rounds"

So yeah.... you can keep shooting well beyond 2k rounds... but your target will look like someone hit it with buckshot....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseV8 View Post
Most casual shooters would take 10 years to shoot that much ammo.
Most competitive shooters will hit that within a year and half- or less... 1 or 2 matches a month.... 60-80 rounds per match- practice sessions in between matches for 20-40 rounds per session... 200 rounds a month... 10 months ish per competitive shooting season.... the barrel is done in 1 year- if you shoot 2 matches a month. If you only shoot 1 match a month, you're toast in 2 years.

Some of us actually shoot our rifles. (albeit sometimes poorly!)

Last edited by postal; 09-28-2013 at 3:36 PM..
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Old 09-28-2013, 4:17 PM
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I think I read something about that when looking up the 300 blk, mentioned how the keyholing/tumbling was somehow ideal for inflicting greater damage or something like that with the 7.62. Not too sure. Thank you though

Not quite.... When the bullet destabilizes in flight by going below the speed of sound, they start to tumble in the air going towards the target.... and accuracy is GONE.....

"keyholeing" the target.. means the bullet was already tumbling in flight, and actually went through the target sideways... (sometimes you see pics of painted steel with impacts in the paint showing a sideways bullet too)

**Going trans sonic and destabilizing in the air on the way to the target is BAD**

What you read about tumbling creating more damage... is generally attributed to the 5.56 during Vietnam because the bullet weight and the rifling twist/velocity... The bullet would fly straight and stabilized in the air, but once it impacts a person, would loose stability and tumble inside the body.

There are some youtube videos showing different bullets hitting gelatin where you can see the bullet tumble end over end through the gelatin... cutting it's way through sideways at times instead of a clean "icepick" wound. Perhaps blackout is more likely to tumble inside a body because it's low velocity as well- though I'm not sure what depth of penetration blackout is capable of...
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Old 09-28-2013, 5:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock619 View Post
lgs recommended a .260. Asked why a .308, and I couldn't really justify it at the time.
The .260 Rem. is an outstanding choice. (It also happens to be the Professional Sniper's round-of-choice.)


If you plan on kickin' in Terrorist's doors? a silenced AR in subsonic 300 AAC Blackout will do a nice job.

If you plan on engaging-from-hide Commie cabbage-heads out to ~ 200 yards? a silenced bolt rifle in subsonic 300 AAC Blackout will do a nice job.

Loaded hot, it's less powerful than a 30-30. Loaded subsonic? less than half of that.


It's a Gopher-fart sniper or Room-broom assault round.




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Old 09-28-2013, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Garandimal View Post
The .260 Rem. is an outstanding choice. (It also happens to be the Professional Sniper's round-of-choice.)

GR
HUH?

Last I checked most "pro snipers" are using 308/7.62... which some are moving to 300win- and for longer, the 338LM and 50BMG...

What "pro snipers" use 260? Pro snipers dont have much of a 'choice' either. They use what they are ISSUED.

Perhaps you meant pro competitors?

Competitive shooters are NOT "snipers". Much less so "pro snipers".

Most use 243,260 and 6.5 creedmore. Though right now more are probably using the 260.

Last edited by postal; 09-28-2013 at 5:32 PM..
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Old 09-28-2013, 5:53 PM
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.308 is a bit big for snipe I think.
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