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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #681  
Old 07-22-2010, 6:12 PM
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Thank you for your responses I just wanted to check on this before I stared to run around trying to get this signed. I already know my sheriff isn't going to sign it and he has ordered several captains to not even touch them. So my next step was a Judge or D.A.


thanks
Dan
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  #682  
Old 07-24-2010, 4:45 PM
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ok ok quick question.
What are the advantages/disadvantages to moving all your firearms to a trust?

I'm thinking in a worst case arrested/restraining order scenario, you can remove urself from the trust so that whoever else is on the trust (brother) can hold onto them for safekeeping without doing assloads of paperwork. Would that work?

Also, in case you unexpectedly pass away, they can inherit the listed firearms.
Now moving something registered to the trust (such as handguns) would that require another ppt? this is some funky territory here.
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  #683  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:22 PM
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I have an appointment with the Sheriff tomorrow to discuss him signing my Form 4. According to his secretary, he's never signed one before and he is not familiar with federal gun laws. I'll try to provide a brief history lesson about 1934 NFA and 1968 GCA, and point out sections in the Cal Penal Code that codify's AOW's as legal. Other than that I will smile, laugh, say jokes and compliment him.
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  #684  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:26 PM
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cool.

and if he balks, then you can tell him that you are asking for his permission, but that if he doesn't give it to you, that you'll go the trust route, and he'll have no idea what you have
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  #685  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
cool.

and if he balks, then you can tell him that you are asking for his permission, but that if he doesn't give it to you, that you'll go the trust route, and he'll have no idea what you have

YEA!! Then punch him in the gullet!! and fart in his general direction!! Signigiet!

**I love to ad information to a post....
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  #686  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:38 PM
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I've got a Superior Court Judge willing to sign for me if the Sheriff doesn't sign. I have a good feeling that the Boss man will sign after our meeting though.
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  #687  
Old 07-30-2010, 10:27 AM
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Please do post how it goes. It is heartwarming to hear of the small victories...

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  #688  
Old 07-30-2010, 2:43 PM
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The interview lasted less than two minutes. He asked why I wanted to purchase the weapon. I stated I am a collector, have a type 3 FFL and see it as an investment. He then asked if I was buying two guns or one because there are two applications. I informed him it was one gun but the BATFE required two originals. That was it; he signed. WOO-HOO!!!!. It will be sent certified mail on Monday. God bless Sheriff (decline to disclose name)!
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  #689  
Old 07-30-2010, 2:49 PM
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  #690  
Old 07-30-2010, 3:30 PM
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sweeeeeeet what are you gunna get?
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  #691  
Old 07-30-2010, 3:57 PM
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sweeeeeeet what are you gunna get?
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  #692  
Old 09-19-2010, 7:45 AM
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anybody know a lawyer who can do a trust ? i looked into this a year or so ago and the reply (from a pro 2A lawyer) i got was ATF has gotten weird about it. I do casually know a (my) county superior court judge who may be willing to sign. i highly doubt my CLEO would sign. I have an Auto 5 that is C&R that really needs a few inches removed from both ends. I would prefer the trust angle so wife and kids and dad could use it but i will settle for the normal route.
PM me if you know a trust lawyer
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  #693  
Old 09-19-2010, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ElToro View Post
anybody know a lawyer who can do a trust ? i looked into this a year or so ago and the reply (from a pro 2A lawyer) i got was ATF has gotten weird about it. I do casually know a (my) county superior court judge who may be willing to sign. i highly doubt my CLEO would sign.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...7&postcount=84

Quote:
I have an Auto 5 that is C&R that really needs a few inches removed from both ends.
not sure if you can still do that, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=487
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  #694  
Old 09-23-2010, 10:00 AM
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I called the NFA branch today to check the status of my transfer. It was assigned to an examiner named Dana Pickels on 09/08/10. Looks like I'm on track to get my tax stamp for Christmas.
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  #695  
Old 09-23-2010, 11:10 AM
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CONGRATS!

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no it can't!
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  #696  
Old 09-28-2010, 12:23 PM
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The ATF examiner called my dealer today. Apparently I did not sign a form verifying my citizenship. I was not aware I should have considering this is my first NFA weapon. I signed it, faxed it and now wait some more. At least this means I'm on the top of the stack and I will probably receive my tax stamp much sooner than Christmas; I hope. I'll keep everybody informed as the process continues.
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  #697  
Old 09-28-2010, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
Basically, you go into a store like OCarmory who is an NFA dealer and pick out the toy you want. OCarmory fills out a Form 4 that you will need to take to your CLEO to have signed off on. He is not required to sign it if he doesn't want to. If he doesn't sign it, you can't have one, unless you can find another signatory that ATF will accept, such as the DA or a judge. If you still can't get a signature, you can have a Trust created that can purchase the firearm, no CLEO sign off needed then.
Just to clarify this, since the attorneys I work with at my firm may have these connections. Will any DA for the county that you live in work? Will any judge's signature work who presides in your county of residency?
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  #698  
Old 09-28-2010, 3:31 PM
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AFAIK, it has to be the DA of the county you live in, not an ADA. And IIRC, any judge who can hear a felony case in your county should be acceptable as well. No small claims judges. I'd suggest contacting the NFA branch for specifics.
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  #699  
Old 09-28-2010, 4:01 PM
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The ATF won't release a comprehensive list, but they will accept a signature from almost anyone involved in the criminal justice world that deals with felonies and is at the top of their organization.

Sheriff.
Chief of Police (if you reside inside city limits).
District Attorney.
State Attorney General.
Chief of State Police and/or Chief of State/Highway Patrol (some states have both)
Head of Department of Public Safety.
District Court Judges.
County Judge (no traffic court or municipal judges though)
Head of local Highway Patrol office.
Head of local Federal Law Enforcement Agencies (don't bother).
U. S. Attorney (don't bother).

Shamlessly stolen from Uzitalk.
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  #700  
Old 09-28-2010, 6:42 PM
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And that is the "short" list.

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no it can't!
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YES IT CAN!
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  #701  
Old 10-07-2010, 7:52 AM
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I called the NFA Branch Office today. Form 4 was approved on 10/01/10. The VERY nice lady on the phone stated it could take up to 30 days for my dealer to receive the tax stamp. Of course I hope it's a lot sooner. God bless ATF Examiner Dana Pickles for his quick approval of the Form 4. Yes, Dana is a male and thankfully is was not held against me when I referred to him as a female; I was promptly corrected by the receptionist. My next post will show a pick of me and my new investment. Thank you to all on this forum that have helped with my purchase.
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  #702  
Old 10-13-2010, 6:14 PM
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SHE"S HOME!!!! I picked up my Remington 870LM today


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  #703  
Old 10-13-2010, 6:23 PM
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congrats!
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  #704  
Old 10-13-2010, 7:42 PM
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awesome! I'm just starting this process myself and with luck should have my SBS soon! wish me luck!
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  #705  
Old 10-13-2010, 7:57 PM
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awesome! I'm just starting this process myself and with luck should have my SBS soon! wish me luck!
AOW, you mean? Or have you found an SBS that meets the C&R exemption?
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  #706  
Old 10-14-2010, 8:18 AM
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AOW, you mean? Or have you found an SBS that meets the C&R exemption?
SBS
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  #707  
Old 10-14-2010, 8:38 AM
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So, 5 weeks for the federal paperwork and 2 weeks to get it home after.
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  #708  
Old 10-14-2010, 8:41 AM
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Are you doing it on a form 1 or 4. I have been looking pretty diligently for a SBS that was registered prior to 1960.
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  #709  
Old 10-26-2010, 1:29 PM
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Thanks to this thread, I have become an official Stamp Collector. I got my first two on the same day. Now I just need to find an engraver and a hacksaw!
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  #710  
Old 10-26-2010, 2:35 PM
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Jack



Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

FrontSight Training Course certificates available $25, PM for details on them and other options.
No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
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  #711  
Old 10-29-2010, 11:20 AM
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Hey guys!

I haven't been reading this thread much recently - since I stopped doing NFA trusts a while back. I just found out that there might be a need for them again.



I never really made any money on these, but I was doing them since I think it's cool that we CAN own NFA weapons in CA, and it's a nice way to assert our rights, etc. . .

I'm actually working again with David Goldman on this, and we are almost at the point where I can offer them again. The upside is that he and I have created a pretty simple process so that the entire trust process can be done in just a few days (as far as creating the trust and getting is all signed and everything - not the ATF part, which we do not have control over).

I'm getting ready to put up a site at californiaNFAtrust.com which will outline prices, process, contact information and all of that. There's nothing there now (literally), but give me a few days - and I will get some stuff up.

I was charging $600 - the new price will be slightly higher - and the ONLY reason I am raising it is that if I want to keep doing these - it needs to be at a price where I actually make a reasonable profit so that there is incentive to keep doing them. Some lawyers are charging over $1000 and making them from scratch - my price will not be that high - since there's a lot of similarity between trusts, even if each trust is tailored to each person.

Anyways, just wanted to put that out there. . .
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  #712  
Old 10-29-2010, 11:59 AM
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As an FYI, I had Oaklander setup my trust, and I am very confident that he covered all of the bases.
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  #713  
Old 11-01-2010, 11:53 AM
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I know that I am preaching to the choir here and that we need to convince the ATF of this, but:

If you took a 870 C&R and Form 1'd it into a SBS, it shouldn't take it out of C&R status because ATF makes it pretty clearer that you area a MAKER and not a MANUFACTURE. If they make a clear distinction between the two and then use the word MANUFACTURED (IRT date) for C&R status, then just cause you Form 1 the fiream, shouldn't change the MANUFACTURE DATE keeping it's C&R status.
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  #714  
Old 11-20-2010, 10:32 PM
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Quick question about the Saiga 12 AOW. Even though it's considered an "AOW" when you register it, do you still need a bullet button for the magazine? I didn't know if the AOW made the BB exempt, or if that was still a CA law regardless what type of firearm it is.
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  #715  
Old 11-20-2010, 10:41 PM
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there is no AOW exemption to the AW regs, so you would need to make usre your Saiga12 AOW did not violate any of them. So,you would still need the BB>
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  #716  
Old 11-21-2010, 3:24 AM
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Quote:
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SHE"S HOME!!!! I picked up my Remington 870LM today


http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2328/form4.jpg
Get a Mesa Tactical side saddle instead of that thing, it's cut so you can still read the serial number, plus aluminum and surgical tubing instead of plastic.

Last edited by Kharn; 11-21-2010 at 4:40 PM..
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  #717  
Old 11-21-2010, 3:00 PM
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Quick question about the Saiga 12 AOW. Even though it's considered an "AOW" when you register it, do you still need a bullet button for the magazine? I didn't know if the AOW made the BB exempt, or if that was still a CA law regardless what type of firearm it is.
What Saiga 12 AOW are you talking about? Do you have a picture? The reason I ask is because I don't see how you could legally make it an AOW since it comes from the factory with a stock shortening it would create a SBS. If there is some way to legally shorten a S12 by making it an AOW I would definitely like to know
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  #718  
Old 11-21-2010, 3:37 PM
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What Saiga 12 AOW are you talking about?
Probably the ones being manufactured by Cadiz Gun Works.

They are being built from a virgin receiver. That is to say a receiver that has never had a buttstock/barrel attached, and can accept saiga parts.
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  #719  
Old 11-21-2010, 4:24 PM
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What Saiga 12 AOW are you talking about? Do you have a picture? The reason I ask is because I don't see how you could legally make it an AOW since it comes from the factory with a stock shortening it would create a SBS. If there is some way to legally shorten a S12 by making it an AOW I would definitely like to know

Remove the folding stock. I've seen a few of these configured/sold this way.

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  #720  
Old 11-21-2010, 4:26 PM
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Remove the folding stock. I've seen a few of these configured/sold this way.

because it came from the factory with a shoulder stock, it would be an SBS, not an AOW. and since it wasn't an AOW, it couldn't be possesed by us in CA.
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