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  #1  
Old 01-16-2008, 11:11 AM
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Default Legality of buying a threaded barrel for a pistol

Situation:
I want to add a permanent external compensator to my pistol. I am skilled in metalwork and machining and want to do the work myself. I am capable of welding or soldering a threaded compensator to a threaded barrel.

Question:
1) Is it legal to buy (or have imported) a threaded pistol barrel in California?
2) Is it legal to possess a threaded pistol barrel in California?
3) There is the law...and then there is real life. If the answers are Yes and Yes, what are possible real issues? Can I expect hassles and problems?

The reason for question 3 is that if I buy a match grade barrel it may take a while for me to fit the barrel to the pistol and finally (and permanently) attach the compensator.

Thanks in advance,
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  #2  
Old 01-16-2008, 11:24 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpete View Post
Situation:
I want to add a permanent external compensator to my pistol. I am skilled in metalwork and machining and want to do the work myself. I am capable of welding or soldering a threaded compensator to a threaded barrel.

Question:
1) Is it legal to buy (or have imported) a threaded pistol barrel in California?
2) Is it legal to possess a threaded pistol barrel in California?
3) There is the law...and then there is real life. If the answers are Yes and Yes, what are possible real issues? Can I expect hassles and problems?

The reason for question 3 is that if I buy a match grade barrel it may take a while for me to fit the barrel to the pistol and finally (and permanently) attach the compensator.

Answers:
1. YES

2. YES.

3. Threaded bbls cannot be installed on semiauto pistols in CA or they become illegal unreg'd assault weapons.

'Constructive possession' does not apply to generic AWs in CA so separated parts are OK. (This has been expressed multiple times by a variety of sources including the raw law itself, Dept. AG Tim Rieger, and DOJ agent Iggy Chinn..

Nevertheless I wouldn't drive around with a gun case with the unbarreled pistol and a separated threaded bbl next to it or in same case. Hell, I'd lock 'em separately.

The comp should be affixed to the bbl permanently (pinned/welded, etc.) to avoid any easy separation that leads to exposed threaded bbl.
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Last edited by bwiese; 01-16-2008 at 11:27 AM..
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  #3  
Old 01-16-2008, 11:44 AM
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(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and
any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip,
or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that
allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide
that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the
pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more
than 10 rounds.

threaded barrels are only illegal on semi-auto pistols that can accept a detachable mag
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Answers:
1. YES

2. YES.

3. Threaded bbls cannot be installed on semiauto pistols in CA or they become illegal unreg'd assault weapons.

'Constructive possession' does not apply to generic AWs in CA so separated parts are OK. (This has been expressed multiple times by a variety of sources including the raw law itself, Dept. AG Tim Rieger, and DOJ agent Iggy Chinn..

Nevertheless I wouldn't drive around with a gun case with the unbarreled pistol and a separated threaded bbl next to it or in same case. Hell, I'd lock 'em separately.

The comp should be affixed to the bbl permanently (pinned/welded, etc.) to avoid any easy separation that leads to exposed threaded bbl.
What is the definition of a threaded barrel? Is some type of interlocking stud set up (the only example I can think of is the type that Hornady uses to secure dies in a reloading press, don't know the tech name) considered threading?
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:24 PM
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Default Thanks for the quick responses...

'Constructive Possession' is a new term to me, but exactly what I was trying to express. I read the statutes and have Machtinger's book...but as they say, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

As a hobby (especially in California), gunsmithing resembles gardening in a minefield.

Thanks again,
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  #6  
Old 01-16-2008, 5:05 PM
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Old 01-16-2008, 6:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
What is the definition of a threaded barrel? Is some type of interlocking stud set up (the only example I can think of is the type that Hornady uses to secure dies in a reloading press, don't know the tech name) considered threading?

People use the term "twist -locks" for those but many types are called "artillery threads" or "interrupted threads"
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  #8  
Old 01-16-2008, 10:29 PM
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I'm curious about this as well as I'm in the market for a Ruger mkII and would like to get a threaded tacsol paclite w/ compensator. How could one permanently afix this considering they are aluminum?
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  #9  
Old 01-17-2008, 2:39 AM
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yes, how ever.... I do belive constructive possession does apply to full-auto parts that can go into any gun you currently own & also S.B.R.'s (short barreled rifles). I do remember reading somthing about being "readliy assembled" not so much as a barrel alone but a complete upper ide not want to chance if you dont have a single shot AR Registered then built into a semi auto rifle or left as a single shot pistol. pistols can become rifles, but rifles can never become a pistol if not previously registered as such. i beleive these are not Ca laws but federal under the N.F.A. (national firearms act) rules
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  #10  
Old 01-17-2008, 3:04 AM
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If you thread on the comp, you have a problem. When you are building the gun, you will likely have commited a felony during the construction process. Even though the end result might be legal, you will still have committed a crime if the gun has an installed threaded barrel at any time. likewise, since the comp will need to be permanently attached, you will never be able to take your gun apart to clear or service.

A much better idea is to leave the barrel as is and modify the comp so it locks on in some way without being threaded. You could even mill some type locking lug configuration which would be legal.
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Old 01-17-2008, 8:20 AM
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If it is a 1911 once you get a barrel bushing on you can permanently install the compensator. Any pistol where the barrel removes through the rear of the slide will pose a problem.

If you could get a barrel thick enough you could do what professional ord. did with their carbon 15 pistols during the AW ban. They used a locking system similar to a quick disconnect air line coupling. The barrel has 3 detent notches machined into it and the brake they used had a sleeve you pulled back to unlock the balls that locked into the detents. Would make for a rather bulky system on a pistol though but it should get around the no threads crap.
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Old 01-17-2008, 8:29 AM
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You could just fit a TruBor barrel with it's integral comp. You'll also have to machine the slide for a full length guide rod and reverse plug. If I'm not mistaken, you also have to machine the front of the slide to fit the comp.
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Old 05-11-2010, 1:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckshootist View Post
threaded barrels are only illegal on semi-auto pistols that can accept a detachable mag
Old thread, I know, but wanted to check on any recent events on this front.

Is a threaded barrel on an SAA revolver clearly OK in california?
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Old 05-11-2010, 2:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.E. View Post
Old thread, I know, but wanted to check on any recent events on this front.

Is a threaded barrel on an SAA revolver clearly OK in california?

Threaded barrels on revolvers are a non-issue in CA and Federally.

The only issues with threaded barrels being an 'evil feature' are on semiauto pistols with detachable magazines.
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Old 05-11-2010, 2:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Threaded barrels on revolvers are a non-issue in CA and Federally.

The only issues with threaded barrels being an 'evil feature' are on semiauto pistols with detachable magazines.
Awesome. Thanks for the fast reply.
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Old 10-17-2010, 1:19 PM
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So if one had an old drop-in threaded barrel with a comp for a 1911 from before the ban you are supposed to do what with it?
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2010, 1:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gschoelles View Post
So if one had an old drop-in threaded barrel with a comp for a 1911 from before the ban you are supposed to do what with it?
If the barrel is not attached to the 1911, then it is legal.
If the barrel is attached to the 1911, then it is illegal.

If you want to legally use the barrel, then remove the threads on the barrel or modify the 1911 so it operates from a fixed magazine.
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Old 10-17-2010, 1:37 PM
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Default I assume it's not an issue for

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Answers:
1. YES

2. YES.

3. Threaded bbls cannot be installed on semiauto pistols in CA or they become illegal unreg'd assault weapons.

'Constructive possession' does not apply to generic AWs in CA so separated parts are OK. (This has been expressed multiple times by a variety of sources including the raw law itself, Dept. AG Tim Rieger, and DOJ agent Iggy Chinn..

Nevertheless I wouldn't drive around with a gun case with the unbarreled pistol and a separated threaded bbl next to it or in same case. Hell, I'd lock 'em separately.

The comp should be affixed to the bbl permanently (pinned/welded, etc.) to avoid any easy separation that leads to exposed threaded bbl.
Competition guns...?..I only say this because I recently attended a Shooting Match where more than 40 people had Compensators on their pistols that were threaded on. I never asked, but I assume most of them were pinned permanently or perhaps spot welded..?...maybe Epoxy..? (I seriously don't know)...

Of course the large group of Glock 34 shooters were ALL using normal mags (15 rounders) and that included the young (21 or so) shooters.

If these compensators used for the legal sport of Competitive shooting are welded...how does one properly clean the weapon..?..
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Old 10-17-2010, 1:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbob View Post
Competition guns...?..I only say this because I recently attended a Shooting Match where more than 40 people had Compensators on their pistols that were threaded on. I never asked, but I assume most of them were pinned permanently or perhaps spot welded..?...maybe Epoxy..? (I seriously don't know)...

Of course the large group of Glock 34 shooters were ALL using normal mags (15 rounders) and that included the young (21 or so) shooters.

If these compensators used for the legal sport of Competitive shooting are welded...how does one properly clean the weapon..?..
"competition guns" are not exempt from CA assault weapon laws.

Some IPSC shooters registered their handguns as assault weapons, so they could have threaded barrels on their competition guns.
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Old 10-17-2010, 3:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gschoelles View Post
So if one had an old drop-in threaded barrel with a comp for a 1911 from before the ban you are supposed to do what with it?
Keep it and not install it inside CA.
Prob best you don't drive around with it and the matching gun in the same case, either.
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Old 10-17-2010, 3:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
"competition guns" are not exempt from CA assault weapon laws.

Some IPSC shooters registered their handguns as assault weapons, so they could have threaded barrels on their competition guns.
Yep, and there's a variety of factory semiauto pistols - some even fairly old - that have internal threaded barrels with a muzzle weight/extension/whatever.

I won't mention models here (AND NO OTHER IDIOT HERE SHOULD EITHER) because all it can do is cause trouble.
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  #22  
Old 11-06-2010, 11:35 AM
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Is this legal:
1. Thread a Glock G20L barrel
2. install barrel into slide
3. screw on comp and pin with roll pin
4. assemble slide onto handgun

At no time was the threaded barrel on the handgun without the comp pinned.
to completely clean just reverse steps. A pinned comp is legal right? removing the comp would require punching out the roll pin, but wouldn't have to be done too often.

Is that legal?
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Old 11-06-2010, 3:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icentropy View Post
Is this legal:
1. Thread a Glock G20L barrel
2. install barrel into slide
3. screw on comp and pin with roll pin
4. assemble slide onto handgun

At no time was the threaded barrel on the handgun without the comp pinned.
to completely clean just reverse steps. A pinned comp is legal right? removing the comp would require punching out the roll pin, but wouldn't have to be done too often.
I guess - maybe add some epoxy too.

It matches the DOJ's level of casualness with the Walther P22 "California fix" epoxied barrel nut situation and perceived permanence to avoid triggering CA AW status on that gun.
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Old 11-06-2010, 4:53 PM
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never mind

Last edited by Rossi357; 11-06-2010 at 6:08 PM..
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Old 11-06-2010, 5:00 PM
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Ammo Bro was selling a threaded barrel Lancaster ak Pistol. The muzzle was not spot welded still today don't know if its legal . My understanding all pistols that were threaded were illegal in cal but please clarify it .
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Old 11-06-2010, 5:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi357 View Post
Does anyone here know if a Tec 22 with a threaded barrel fits into the Calif. scheme? The threaded barrel can be dealt with, but the external mag is the question.
Do rimfire's need a BB?
Again, consult the Calguns AW flowchart.

A BulletButton maglock (and when used w/10rd mag or less, not a hicap) takes the Tec22 out of AW status: the evil features (threaded bbl, magwell ahead of pistol grip) are fully negated by its having a nondetachable magazine via the BB.

Unlike for rifles, there is no rimfire exemption for pistols for AW status.
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Old 11-06-2010, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redneckshootist View Post
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and
any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip,
or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that
allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide
that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the
pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more
than 10 rounds.

threaded barrels are only illegal on semi-auto pistols that can accept a detachable mag
So, based on this, an AK pistol with a maglock and a "second handgrip" would be ok? I always thought it wasn't.
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Old 11-06-2010, 5:31 PM
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To avoid puzzling you any further, I won't ask any more questons.

Last edited by Rossi357; 11-06-2010 at 6:07 PM..
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Old 11-06-2010, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
So, based on this, an AK pistol with a maglock and a "second handgrip" would be ok? I always thought it wasn't.
Yes. The maglock invalidates other elements on a semiauto pistol just like on a semiauto rifle (except for the separate 30" min length provision or the 10rds or less fixed mag provision).

The flowchart has been out for ages and gunshops have been selling AR & AK pistols out the yazoo, so I'm always puzzled why people are puzzled and can't transition from the rifle concept to pistol concept. 12276.1 isn't that hard to read.

However, a forward pistol grip on a pistol triggers AOW status, a separate Federal law.
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Last edited by bwiese; 11-06-2010 at 7:44 PM..
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Old 11-06-2010, 5:41 PM
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I'm slightly fuzzy... are barrels with integrated suppressors still NFA items? I know the catchall for this thread seems to be a detachable suppressor, it just makes me curious if the detachable supressor is just as controlled as the integrated suppressor...
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Old 11-06-2010, 6:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTSGDYBBR View Post
Ammo Bro was selling a threaded barrel Lancaster ak Pistol. The muzzle was not spot welded still today don't know if its legal . My understanding all pistols that were threaded were illegal in cal but please clarify it .
as mentioned above, threaded barrels are only an issue on semi-auto pistols that have detachable magazine. If it has afixed mag, then threaded barrels are not regulated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
So, based on this, an AK pistol with a maglock and a "second handgrip" would be ok? I always thought it wasn't.
depending on the type of "second handgrip", it might be considered an AOW per the feds, but it would not violate CA law since it has a maglock.


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Originally Posted by Uriah02 View Post
I'm slightly fuzzy... are barrels with integrated suppressors still NFA items? I know the catchall for this thread seems to be a detachable suppressor, it just makes me curious if the detachable supressor is just as controlled as the integrated suppressor...
are you talking about suppressors as in "sound suppressor" aka "silence", or "flash suppressor" aka "flash hider"?

integrated firearms sound suppressors are considered NFA items.
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Old 06-13-2011, 2:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
I guess - maybe add some epoxy too.

It matches the DOJ's level of casualness with the Walther P22 "California fix" epoxied barrel nut situation and perceived permanence to avoid triggering CA AW status on that gun.

Bingo! please provide details. Moving to so cal and want to stay out of trouble. Details, details, details please.

any barrel nut that fits threads? a stainless? something sold by major manufacturer? shouldn't change shooting much by adding weight at end of muzzle.

what are the restrictions/definitions if I wanted to put muzzle break? benefits/losses?

i need help here guys. Cover my 6.

lostinsurf
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Old 06-13-2011, 2:53 PM
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Old 06-13-2011, 3:50 PM
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The way I've read the law, a semi-auto pistol with detachable magazine and threaded barrel is an "assault weapon". I didn't see anything said about pinned on muzzle brakes or anything like that.

The CA DOJ might have approved some semi-auto pistols with barrel threads but I think they were wrong.

I hate the whole "assault weapon" ban but I'm sure the DOJ would try to enforce it as written, not as applied to some .22lr I don't own.

If I have any threads, I'm going to have a fixed magazine.

That might be more cautious than required but I'm not going to press that particular boundary.
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Old 06-13-2011, 3:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wash View Post
The way I've read the law, a semi-auto pistol with detachable magazine and threaded barrel is an "assault weapon". I didn't see anything said about pinned on muzzle brakes or anything like that.

The CA DOJ might have approved some semi-auto pistols with barrel threads but I think they were wrong.

I hate the whole "assault weapon" ban but I'm sure the DOJ would try to enforce it as written, not as applied to some .22lr I don't own.

If I have any threads, I'm going to have a fixed magazine.

That might be more cautious than required but I'm not going to press that particular boundary.
the trick is that the law doesn't ban threaded barrels, but those threaded barrels that are capable of accepting a flash suppressor, silencer or forward grip. Once you pin (or loc-tite) a muzzle attachment onto that barrel, even though it has threads, it can't accept anything else be attached to it.


Quote:
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
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  #36  
Old 06-13-2011, 4:14 PM
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That's a fine line but I guess you are right.

I will still continue to avoid threads until I find a compelling reason to go there (a gun I really like...).
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Old 06-13-2011, 5:48 PM
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Gotta love cali
No shizz. This state makes my head hurt.
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Old 06-13-2011, 6:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Threaded barrels on revolvers are a non-issue in CA and Federally.

The only issues with threaded barrels being an 'evil feature' are on semiauto pistols with detachable magazines.
semi-autos with threaded barrels are not an issue federally.

Last edited by luckystrike; 06-13-2011 at 6:08 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 09-04-2011, 9:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
the trick is that the law doesn't ban threaded barrels, but those threaded barrels that are capable of accepting a flash suppressor, silencer or forward grip. Once you pin (or loc-tite) a muzzle attachment onto that barrel, even though it has threads, it can't accept anything else be attached to it.
not to harp on a dead thread, but to clarify, if one were to loctite a thread protector on a threaded barrel of a pistol, would that make that barrel not capable of accepting a flash suppresor, silencer, or forward grip in the eyes of the law?
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Old 09-04-2011, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrimguru View Post
not to harp on a dead thread, but to clarify, if one were to loctite a thread protector on a threaded barrel of a pistol, would that make that barrel not capable of accepting a flash suppresor, silencer, or forward grip in the eyes of the law?
all we can do is point to the example of CADOJ allowing S&W/Walther to do exactly that to the P22 and sell them in CA without it being considered an AW.
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